The Meta Knight Stage Discussion Thread: Main Hub LAST EDITED July 6th

[theunabletable]

The Meta Knight Stage Discussion Thread: Main Hub​

Woohoo, new stage discussion thread! I plan on having this thread nicely organized, so that information on stages will be easy to find.

The purpose of this thread is solely to link to the other sub-threads. The sub-threads contain the actual discussion of the stages, and there will be a sub-thread for every stage discussion. IE there will be a Battlefield discussion thread, then a Yoshi’s Story discussion thread, then an RC discussion thread (that might not be the order that we do this in, but that’s the general idea).

This thread will contain summaries of the information given in those sub-threads, will contain links to each of the sub threads, and will contain the schedule for when new discussions start.

The only real discussion that will go on in this thread (this is the main “Hub” thread) will be to vote on what the next week’s stage discussion will be. Please leave the individual stage discussion OUT of this thread, and put those posts in the sub-threads that will be linked to. I’d like to keep this specific thread organized.

Basically in the sub-threads we discuss what MK can do on these stages, such as situational tricks you can do (for instance, the drill-rush tricks on BF, or scrooging on SV (gay stuff is good and should definitely be mentioned), etc), what characters to ban this stage against, what characters to strike this stage against, what character’s to CP this stage against (as in when these stages are unusually good against certain characters. For instance FD is apparently one of your best CPs against G&W, while against characters like Diddy you want to ban it), etc

My goal is to have atleast one new thread opened every week. If we discuss something fast, then we might move ahead of schedule and open a new thread quicker than the schedule says. And within one or two days of opening a new thread, we’ll start voting on the next stage to discuss the next week.

The priority of stage discussion goes like this: We’ll be discussing the generally considered starters first (we’ll start with BF, then Yoshi’s, then SV, then Lylat, then FD), then we’ll move on to the stages that are often counterpicks, but sometimes starters with stagelists like the MLG one (IE after BF/YI/SV/Lylat/FD, we’ll move on to Siege, Delfino, Halberd, Pokemon Stadium (we’ll vote on the order of these, though)), then we’ll move on to the stages that are generally always considered CPs (stuff like RC, Brinstar, etc), then we’ll move on to the stuff that are sometimes considered CPs (Norfair, Green Greens, etc), then after that… Idk…

So here’s the current schedule:
SCHEDULE AS OF JUNE 30TH
June 30th/July 1st: Begin discussion of Battlefield.
July 7th: Discussion of Yoshi’s will have started (maybe earlier, but as long as I don’t get lazy, which I don’t think’ll happen this fast, it should have definitely started by this point)
July 14th: Discussion of Smashville will have started.
July 21st: Discussion of Lylat will have started.
July 28th: Discussion of FD will have started
July 29th-August 3rd: Voting will begin on the next stage to discuss.
August 4th: Discussion of the voted stage will begin.
August 5th-10th: Voting will begin on the next stage to discuss.
August 11th: Discussion of the most recently voted stage will begin.

and so on and so forth. I’ll update the schedule on August 4th when we’ve voted on the stage to discuss, and I’ll continue to update the schedule on a weekly basis.

Looks kind of complicated, but I’d say it’s fairly simple. After discussing all of the starters (including the MLG starters), we might start a discussion that’s JUST about stage striking with the various rulesets. Maybe

SUMMARIES AS OF JULY 6TH
BATTLEFIELD DISCUSSION STUFFS​

THREAD:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279598

SUMMARY:
Notable posts:

There are a few up-B canceling tricks on this stage due to the top platform. For instance, if you’re below the top platform, if you grounded up-B and immediately glide up after the grounded up-B you’ll land on the top platform with no lag. It’s a good mixup to make it harder for your opponent to punish you. And there’s another spot below the top platform where if you grounded up-B below it, you’ll end up gliding into the edge of the top platform causing you to have the getup lag, but the forward momentum will slide you off the platform. It can be a really good bait.

There are the drill rush cancels, but I can’t think of a single time I’ve used those in tournament to my advantage. They’re incredibly situational, but w/e, an option is an option, I guess.

You can pressure people on the platforms really hard when they’re shielding with uairs and nairs. A good option that screws some people up is hitting someone’s shield (probably with an SHFF nair or something like that) when they’re close to the edge of a platform so that they fall off; often people won’t tech it or do anything, which sets you up for a Dtilt lock.

But be careful of the same thing happening to you. Other characters can do it, as well; I’ve seen Larry get the laser lock from doing this a LOT (even against really good players like M2K).

Watch your spacing when you try and reverse shuttle loop onto the stage from below it, the lower platform likes to catch you and cause you to go higher than expected, and you’re still in a glide. I’ve SD’d a few times due to this… just learn the spacing of the reverse SL without hitting the lower platform.

This is mostly useless, but it could be a good bait, I guess. From the lower platform, if you DC and go immediately to the area in the middle with no platforms (no up or down, just straight horizontal) it’ll auto-cancel on the main ground. Every once in a while you can get a punish from doing that, making them want to punish what looks like a really stupid laggy DC and then, BAM, no lag.

And the platforms stopping you from getting grab release combo’d is nice, but that’s not at all exclusive to this stage.

There’s not much more I can think of right now, MK is just all around good here. This is a really good stage in some matchups, and depending on how many starters you have, you might end up here a lot due to stage striking. Practice here and get comfortable, you’ll probably play here a LOT.

There isn't some magical formula for knowing where to take a character.

A counter-example to your Diddy on FD example is a tournament set between Mero -- one of FL's best MK players -- against GDX -- FL's best Diddy player. Mero lost game one to GDX on Smashville (IIRC), counter-picked GDX to FD (GDX laughed at him) and then two-stocked him twice (GDX took him back to FD).

Pierce made an excellent post about Diddy and his level of stage control:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10524735&postcount=304



Something that should always be taken into consideration that one should take is how a losing player analyzed their opponent. Think after the match, "What did my opponent do that is bad for me? What did my opponent do that is good for me?" An example of this would be in the Snake-MK match-up. Let's say that I won game one on Battlefield. My opponent beat me on the ground terribly; every time that I was on the ground, he out-played me (which was doubly rewarded because he's Snake and I'm MK). How did I win? His platform game is abysmal; once I got him on a platform, I used landing traps with Uair and juggled him with tornado so that he was never on the stage for long. He never countered this properly with platform canceling, dropping a grenade, etc. In addition to this, he wasn't tech chasing properly (Snake grabbing on a platform should lead to death, or at the very least give most of a stock's damage).

What should I do in this situation about my stage ban? The match-up discussion would probably say that I should ban Halberd. It is Snake's best stage after all, isn't it? Not in this case. FD would be his best stage in this case; it eliminates his platform problem, increases the survival ratio in Snake's favor, and it increases the amount of time spent on the ground.

On the other hand, Halberd begins on a large platform with a relatively smaller platform above it. My options are greatly rewarded, because very little ground fighting will take place. Because he isn't countering my sharking properly, there shouldn't be any ground fighting to begin with. When the "low-ceiling-FD+platform" transformation comes, I can simply plank until it ends. It doesn't matter if I die sooner when my opponent is hardly on the ground to damage me or to land a kill move.

Some other stuff for this stage:
This stage is small, so some characters can’t really camp you here.

MK is good on platforms. You can pressure people really hard from below the platforms with short hop UAirs, and as their shield gets low, you can nair them for a hopeful poke or a lot of damage, or tornado them. There are a lot of ways to pressure people on this stage with the platforms.

The platforms are amazing for retreating nados and being safe. Against a lot of characters, your nado is practically unpunishable on shield if you retreat it to a platform.

The platforms can really help you dair camp certain characters if needed. Lucario comes to mind.


There wasn't as much discussion as I'd hoped... step it up guys!


RATIO:
**** numbers. It’s a good stage for MK, and it’s matchup dependant. For instance, you probably won’t want to CP a Diddy, ICs, or Falco here, since they do pretty well here (bit of an understatement ). Get comfortable here; you’ll probably play here a lot.

CURRENT DISCUSSION AS OF JULY 6TH
YOSHI'S ISLAND BRAWL​

Discuss here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10684378#post10684378

 

[theunabletable]

Reserved for summaries

 

[theunabletable]

One more JUST IN CASE

 

[demonictoonlink]

I've been really busy lately, but I plan on helping with videos if you're cool with that. I've been want to make AT videos for MK for awhile.

Just like that basics things we can do on this stage as in drill rush cancels and where we can AC Dimensional Cape from.

 

[theunabletable]

That's perfect. Stuff like that is great, right now I can only just mention it in text, but giving videos would be a lot better.

 

[lilseph]

We should really get this rolling again, it was a great idea the first time and this time around. But it seems to be just dying :/

 

[theunabletable]

^I love the idea, and I'm willing to keep doing it, but I stopped because it simply wasn't getting enough discussion. I mean it would've come down to me being almost the sole contributor of tricks for the stages, and really that wouldn't be much help because I'm not even good at this game.

If more people willl post and contribute, I'll start it up again.