Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[DJBor]

Dropping the top tier, nice. And if you really need 'em, Diddy's in the pocket. Just like my secret ZSS (which I've been told is so weird that it works)
Some advice on pocket characters: If you are sure that with any of your normal characters you'd not do so well, don't be afraid to throw out a really random pocket. ZSS and Shulk are my pockets now, and either time I pull one out is laughable, but always a good match.
Also I find myself losing 60% of my matches now, but I'm in a stacked region and I'm not too devoted to playing Smash anyway. But pulling out a pocket character and surprising everyone is always fun.

 

[Deleted member]

Any advice on ? I'm already aware of his common tactics like his Ding Dong and Bair, but I feel like I'm missing some stuff.

 

[TDK]

has been my main for a while and I love him. I also love and to a similar degree, though, and I don't want to tri-main. Logic says to go but my gut's telling me to go . Help?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

has been my main for a while and I love him. I also love and to a similar degree, though, and I don't want to tri-main. Logic says to go but my gut's telling me to go . Help?

Play because your gut says so and decide between and for a secondary. Both are really good and if I were you I'd go LOZ team cause lol it's hype but it's up to you.

I also have a question. Which are the characters who you need to play the most patiently with? That's one of my issues atm and I think practicing them will help my fundamentals and allow me to intertwine the patience with my Roy. Just tell me all of them you can think of please

 

[TDK]

I also have a question. Which are the characters who you need to play the most patiently with? That's one of my issues atm and I think practicing them will help my fundamentals and allow me to intertwine the patience with my Roy. Just tell me all of them you can think of please

Duck Hunt. Campy Character + Kills really late = Need for patience.

 

[Egghead]

Play because your gut says so and decide between and for a secondary. Both are really good and if I were you I'd go LOZ team cause lol it's hype but it's up to you.

I also have a question. Which are the characters who you need to play the most patiently with? That's one of my issues atm and I think practicing them will help my fundamentals and allow me to intertwine the patience with my Roy. Just tell me all of them you can think of please

If you want to practice with your patience and fundamentals, paracticing with your main(The handsome Roy in your case) is a good idea. Different characters require different sorts of fundamentals and your main is the character you play with the most, hence practicing with him.

 

[Nessy]

So you want . Also seem like other good choices. Try them out and see how you like them.

Also update on me: is my second main with . Tournanent tested. Yay.

I tried out Diddy Kong. His movesets are fun to play with and his main attacks are ok. I think I have a feel for him and his bananas too. Maybe I might look up at a guide to see if there is an easy combos to remember. Or probably ask many people in my community about this situation.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I tried out Diddy Kong. His movesets are fun to play with and his main attacks are ok. I think I have a feel for him and his bananas too. Maybe I might look up at a guide to see if there is an easy combos to remember. Or probably ask many people in my community about this situation.

Down throw--> up air/ back air follow ups untill about 20-30% then switch to up throw. I used Diddy for a while and still use him so I know his stuff too.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So in tournament yesterday I finally scored my first wins as against and . So I'm gonna go . I can't stress this enough. Tournament will be where you pick your characters. In tournaments is where you will see who you succeed with and who you don't.

I'm gonna work on too and add him to my roster once I'm ready, possibly replacing with him.

Wow no ones posted in like a week...

 

[Fnma5678]

Wow Im late to this thread but I was hoping I could get some input.I currently main Marth and...thats it.I want a more diverse set of a second and possibly third main.I personally lean towards Mario,Captain Falcon,and Peach.And Cloud because everyone needs a pocket Cloud or Bayo.So I was hoping for some 3rd party input.

 

[DJBor]

Wow Im late to this thread but I was hoping I could get some input.I currently main Marth and...thats it.I want a more diverse set of a second and possibly third main.I personally lean towards Mario,Captain Falcon,and Peach.And Cloud because everyone needs a pocket Cloud or Bayo.So I was hoping for some 3rd party input.

has projectile pressure, still has a counter, and has disjoints. If you can handle her weird movement specs, she'll suit your well.

Also, I secondary now, and not because he's top tier. My theory for Mewtwo is that he's the swingiest character. Mewtwo has nothing that outright forces the opponent into a disadvantaged state like the other top tiers. Mewtwo's really weak to a good bait and punish player who can swing the game in the other direction.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

has projectile pressure, still has a counter, and has disjoints. If you can handle her weird movement specs, she'll suit your well.

Also, I secondary now, and not because he's top tier. My theory for Mewtwo is that he's the swingiest character. Mewtwo has nothing that outright forces the opponent into a disadvantaged state like the other top tiers. Mewtwo's really weak to a good bait and punish player who can swing the game in the other direction.

Get a secondary for the matchups you struggle with. For example I play and when I go for a secondary I don't worry about covering cause even though they beat him I do find in that matchup. Instead I'll cover since they give me the hardest time.

 

[Lunanix]

Wow Im late to this thread but I was hoping I could get some input.I currently main Marth and...thats it.I want a more diverse set of a second and possibly third main.I personally lean towards Mario,Captain Falcon,and Peach.And Cloud because everyone needs a pocket Cloud or Bayo.So I was hoping for some 3rd party input.

What is your reason your looking for a secondary. It's not wise learning more than realistically two characters since you can halt your improvement getting hung up getting all your characters to a respectable level. Are you just looking for a bit more fun whilst playing or are you looking to cover match-ups. (Really you want to solo main whoever your character is until you are 100% confident you can play them well enough and only secondary when you are confident that you can do better with someone else)

If you attend tournaments or are playing to improve/become the best you can be playing more than one is really going to set you back without an idea of what your actually after.
Out of your choices I would definitely take a look at . He's good fun to play, hes has a good match-up spread and he is very good at teaching good fundamentals. If you feel you have the fundamentals then my next choice personally would be as he's good fun to play although I find people tend to try to style to much as him, although he plays very well off strong fundamentals which will be very beneficial.

in my opinion is a main character material, shes highly technical and requires a lot of work and time investment to play, although very rewarding when you do so.

is Cloud, good fundamentals and can be pretty fun to play but there is a lot of Clouds out there (whether mains or secondary) so well verse yourself in the Ditto. Although Clouds tend to gain a lot of bad habits. No idea why but they do a lot of the same thing.

Just my opinion, but I would definitely ask yourself this "Why do you need/want a secondary". is a strong character choice with good fundamentals and a good match-up spread. I can see him getting slightly boring to play all the time but I would take a look at some of the top Marth players (Mr E, MKLeo, False - I find these guys really entertaining to watch but there is plenty more). You can learn some new stuff which can make your games much more interesting if you learn and implement into your own game play.

If you find the answer to this question, I'd be more than Happy to help find a secondary that covers what you need.

 

[YEBZ]

I am a Yoshi main and I have been doing well recently, but I'm having a lot of trouble with a cloud in my region. Since bayo was released I've played her but only for fun since I've seen her as more complicated to bother getting tournament ready, but I've decided to pick up a secondary for cloud, is it worth to learn bayo or should I find an easier character since I would like to stay as a yoshi main.

 

[DJBor]

Try , seems to work for Nairo and is really similar to Yoshi.
The matchups Mewtwo was intended to cover are and some speedy brawlers that mess up my puppet-style game plan with Villager. Most of these matchups feel even, or very slightly in one favor or the other.
Going to test stuff over Wi-Fi during the winter, but I'm really getting into the Pokemon Global Link tournaments for VGC so that'll probably be my main focus until Smash for Switch reveals itself.

 

[Lunanix]

I am a Yoshi main and I have been doing well recently, but I'm having a lot of trouble with a cloud in my region. Since bayo was released I've played her but only for fun since I've seen her as more complicated to bother getting tournament ready, but I've decided to pick up a secondary for cloud, is it worth to learn bayo or should I find an easier character since I would like to stay as a yoshi main.

Yoshi is a great character but he does definitely struggle with certain match-ups, I'm definitely not a Yoshi main, I dabble very briefly when I'm just playing to muck about but the best playing in my region is a Yoshi main and I'm quite close to him so I understand the struggles he has. He is actually a Yoshi/Mario player since both have very similar kits yet aren't to different so maybe work trying him out although a bit better for the Cloud match-up its still not a Winner.

If you enjoy Bayonetta then I don't see why you shouldn't try her out and pick her up as a secondary, there is plenty of knowledge around for her and she definitely goes well against Cloud. Might be worth doing a bit more research into Yoshi's bad match-ups and see if Bayo covers many of them since it's really a much better option learning to deal with Cloud with Yoshi than picking up a single Character for a single match-up because then you will just struggle when it comes to counter-pick wars. I also don't think shes overly hard to pick up, jump in training mode, learn her basic combos etc and what not and you should be good to go.

Plus, if you play her for fun already, it makes it a ton easier to keep playing and practising rather than playing someone just for match-up so you might as well!

Good luck!

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I am a Yoshi main and I have been doing well recently, but I'm having a lot of trouble with a cloud in my region. Since bayo was released I've played her but only for fun since I've seen her as more complicated to bother getting tournament ready, but I've decided to pick up a secondary for cloud, is it worth to learn bayo or should I find an easier character since I would like to stay as a yoshi main.

Loses to . That's basically it. He's very good, but his one huge weakness is recovery. Does do really well against him, can do stuff too. But you just need a character you like who's really good at edgeguarding. Characters like are some that go even with him who can gimp him well. Can do stuff. Just explore characters who have good edge guarding to beat Cloud.

 

[DJBor]

Characters I think might beat Cloud

Characters I think are even


Pretty much owns everyone else

 

[Fnma5678]

What is your reason your looking for a secondary. It's not wise learning more than realistically two characters since you can halt your improvement getting hung up getting all your characters to a respectable level. Are you just looking for a bit more fun whilst playing or are you looking to cover match-ups. (Really you want to solo main whoever your character is until you are 100% confident you can play them well enough and only secondary when you are confident that you can do better with someone else)

If you attend tournaments or are playing to improve/become the best you can be playing more than one is really going to set you back without an idea of what your actually after.
Out of your choices I would definitely take a look at . He's good fun to play, hes has a good match-up spread and he is very good at teaching good fundamentals. If you feel you have the fundamentals then my next choice personally would be as he's good fun to play although I find people tend to try to style to much as him, although he plays very well off strong fundamentals which will be very beneficial.

in my opinion is a main character material, shes highly technical and requires a lot of work and time investment to play, although very rewarding when you do so.

is Cloud, good fundamentals and can be pretty fun to play but there is a lot of Clouds out there (whether mains or secondary) so well verse yourself in the Ditto. Although Clouds tend to gain a lot of bad habits. No idea why but they do a lot of the same thing.

Just my opinion, but I would definitely ask yourself this "Why do you need/want a secondary". is a strong character choice with good fundamentals and a good match-up spread. I can see him getting slightly boring to play all the time but I would take a look at some of the top Marth players (Mr E, MKLeo, False - I find these guys really entertaining to watch but there is plenty more). You can learn some new stuff which can make your games much more interesting if you learn and implement into your own game play.

If you find the answer to this question, I'd be more than Happy to help find a secondary that covers what you need.

Thanks alot for the help.I agree with everything you said and I plan to pick up Mario.The reason I wanted a secondary is because I'm actually going to my first tournament on Thursday and I have a feeling that a fallback character would be very useful.I also think it will help me better understand the game and give me a fresh perspective.I absolutely adore Marth and his play style but recently whenever I just mess around with friends and use other characters I apply the same concepts to them a I do with Marth (as in staying at a good distance nd staying in my little bubble until I see an opening) and I think that's not a good thing to do since it doesn't feel as fluid and natural.I mostly just want to experience characters outside my comfort zone and have a backup in case of a bad matchup.I doubt Im gonna use Mario in the tournament due to lack of experience but I hope I can learn a thing or two about the general flow of competitive play.

 

[Egghead]

I mostly just want to experience characters outside my comfort zone.

Going outside your comfort zone is an excellent thing you are doing. If Mario is truly outside your comfort zone, use a character that truly suits you. For example, Zero still believes that sheik is an excellent character, he even placed sheik higher than diddy on his tier list. Zero said that Sheik did not suit him and that Sheik was outside of his comfort zone. What style do you like? What character matches that style(other than Marth of course)? Having a secondary is almost a necessity in sm4sh so choose what suits you Personally, as a Wii fit trainer main, I have finally found a secondary that is very close to my Wii fit in terms of results(fighting on stream and sometimes FG). I chose villager because I love camping. Running away until my opponent does something questionable is something I enjoy.

 

[Lunanix]

Thanks alot for the help.I agree with everything you said and I plan to pick up Mario.The reason I wanted a secondary is because I'm actually going to my first tournament on Thursday and I have a feeling that a fallback character would be very useful.I also think it will help me better understand the game and give me a fresh perspective.I absolutely adore Marth and his play style but recently whenever I just mess around with friends and use other characters I apply the same concepts to them a I do with Marth (as in staying at a good distance nd staying in my little bubble until I see an opening) and I think that's not a good thing to do since it doesn't feel as fluid and natural.I mostly just want to experience characters outside my comfort zone and have a backup in case of a bad matchup.I doubt Im gonna use Mario in the tournament due to lack of experience but I hope I can learn a thing or two about the general flow of competitive play.

Yeah I get what your saying, In which case I would definitely play about with . As I mentioned before he's a very fun character but he can teach you very good fundamentals (alongside Marth so also does the same). Since you have a tournament coming up in a few days I would say it isn't ideal to pick Mario now, whether you want to play him in tournament or not but I would definitely hope into a few games, maybe spend an hour or two just messing about with him. This will just help you feel a bit fresh in game but still make it so that you still playing Marth and practising for your tournament.

A few of the basic combos and game plan for Mario include,

25+% Down Throw, Up Tilt, Up Tilt, Up Smash, Jump, Up Air, Up Air, Up Special. (This can be shortened to accommodate higher percents)
Up Throw, Down Air, Forward Air.
Down Throw, Forward Air can Spike if they DI inward.
His Up Smash is godly for killing, you can Jump Cancel it whilst also turning around to get a better hit box for the situation.
His back air is also really good for neutral spacing.
And finally his Nair is frame 3 so it can break a lot of combos.

Unfortunately I don't main him and haven't ever really played him to much so off the top of my head that's all I can remember now though. I'd also send you come links to guides and video tutorials but I'm not sure on the rules about links so I'll let you go find them yourself.

I know Zero made one (Not sure how good it is but I'm sure theirs more if its old or what not)
And Beefy Smash Doods made a video showing his 3 dangerous combos, which talk about the combos from a playing against it perspective but nevertheless useful to see!

 

[Niche]

I'm looking for a character kinda like melee marth. Sit back wait for the opponent and then punish with your range.

 

[Egghead]

I'm looking for a character kinda like melee marth. Sit back wait for the opponent and then punish with your range.

That would be Marth. In all seriousness, try out all the sword it's as they all have range and can hang back. Cloud has the best punish game out of all of them though.

 

[Lunanix]

I'm looking for a character kinda like melee marth. Sit back wait for the opponent and then punish with your range.

Yeah Egghead nailed it on the head really. is a good choice, he plays fairly similarly to what he does in Melee, and is also a good option.

Just some other really good options to throw in there would be / doesn't directly meet your requirements since they both need to be up and in your face to do anything and Ganon is really slow. But Ganon has by far the biggest bait and punish in the game, if hes to slow Falcon is also extremely good as he is a lot faster and a lot more options. (If you played Falcon on Melee he feels very similar)

Other options could also be //// since they all play a bait and punish game. Some more so than others.

If your looking for Melee Marth, then I think your best bet lies with sticking with since he plays the game but his combo game isn't as strong as in Melee, since he is basically the same philosophy (Big sword, good combos, big spacing and zone game) and probably lastly I'd say since hes hold bread and butter is his bait and punish game, utilising this he has a great combo game as well as excellent movement he just lacks the whopping great sword that Cloud and Melee Marth has.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So in tournament yesterday I pulled out and got really close to beating one of our top 20 players. So I've decided I wanna use him. So I've got . But I don't want 3. If I have three then one of them needs to be a projectile character () should I drop Mario in favor of a projectile character or keep him? I'm kinda stuck atm.

 

[Justinian]

So in tournament yesterday I pulled out and got really close to beating one of our top 20 players. So I've decided I wanna use him. So I've got . But I don't want 3. If I have three then one of them needs to be a projectile character () should I drop Mario in favor of a projectile character or keep him? I'm kinda stuck atm.

You don't necessarily "need" a heavy zoner in your roster. If you're trying to get results, I'd be more concerned with MUs. Cloud beats both Mario and Sonic. Roy does decently against him for the same reasons Marth/Lucina do though. If you drop Mario for either of the heavy zoners you mentioned, you're gonna have an uphill battle against Sheik. If you really wanted to drop Mario, I'd say do it for someone like Pikachu, who wins against Cloud and goes about even with Sheik.

Though to be honest, as long as you're willing to grind out the Cloud matchup, Mario/Roy/Sonic kinda covers everything at least decently.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

You don't necessarily "need" a heavy zoner in your roster. If you're trying to get results, I'd be more concerned with MUs. Cloud beats both Mario and Sonic. Roy does decently against him for the same reasons Marth/Lucina do though. If you drop Mario for either of the heavy zoners you mentioned, you're gonna have an uphill battle against Sheik. If you really wanted to drop Mario, I'd say do it for someone like Pikachu, who wins against Cloud and goes about even with Sheik.

Though to be honest, as long as you're willing to grind out the Cloud matchup, Mario/Roy/Sonic kinda covers everything at least decently.

I'm fine beating with both and atm. I love but he's too inconsistent and quick attack is too technical for me at this level. That's why I'm not using . I'm going to wait till I'm better to use him. And advice I've gotten from my friend (a top player in my state) is it's good to have your main and a projectile character. But I guess I can worry about that later when I have . Also I can handle with .

 

[Egghead]

I'm fine beating with both and atm. I love but he's too inconsistent and quick attack is too technical for me at this level. That's why I'm not using . I'm going to wait till I'm better to use him. And advice I've gotten from my friend (a top player in my state) is it's good to have your main and a projectile character. But I guess I can worry about that later when I have . Also I can handle with .

Projectile characters are not that necessary. They have many weaknesses as a large proportion of the cast either has better projectiles or a reflector.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Projectile characters are not that necessary. They have many weaknesses as a large proportion of the cast either has better projectiles or a reflector.

So then would it be best to drop from 3-2? If so should I drop and just go ? Or should I keep all three since are fairly easy and I know really well?

 

[DJBor]

No need to be official about it, you can play all three. Keep the but in place of everyone's favorite pocket you have .

 

[Lamuh]

So I've gone back and forth on who I want to main/secondary/pocket/etc and I've decided to set in stone that my main is Ike. No questions about it. I do consistently well with him, I like his playstyle, I enjoy the threat that his strong hits can put out, I enjoy his spacing. That being said, I still can't decide on a secondary for him. What would be good suggestions for a secondary to Ike and why? Additionally, is there anybody that does well against Fox, Mewtwo, Roy and Greninja (or at least a few of them)?

 

[Justinian]

So I've gone back and forth on who I want to main/secondary/pocket/etc and I've decided to set in stone that my main is Ike. No questions about it. I do consistently well with him, I like his playstyle, I enjoy the threat that his strong hits can put out, I enjoy his spacing. That being said, I still can't decide on a secondary for him. What would be good suggestions for a secondary to Ike and why? Additionally, is there anybody that does well against Fox, Mewtwo, Roy and Greninja (or at least a few of them)?

Cloud beats or goes even with every character you just mentioned, and has the added bonus of doing well vs Diddy and Sonic. two more "hard" MUs for Ike. Cloud also plays similarly to Ike in some respects, so you should try him out.

 

[Lamuh]

Cloud beats or goes even with every character you just mentioned, and has the added bonus of doing well vs Diddy and Sonic. two more "hard" MUs for Ike. Cloud also plays similarly to Ike in some respects, so you should try him out.

My biggest issue with Cloud is that.... it's Cloud. He's strong to the point of feeling both unfair and frustrating to play against, and I strongly dislike him because of that. I know that's childish and I shouldn't base who I pick to play off of that but I felt the same way about Bayo when she came out which is why I decided not to play her. Any other suggestions? They honestly don't even have to be top tier or cover *all* of those matchups, just some of them.

 

[Egghead]

My biggest issue with Cloud is that.... it's Cloud. He's strong to the point of feeling both unfair and frustrating to play against, and I strongly dislike him because of that. I know that's childish and I shouldn't base who I pick to play off of that but I felt the same way about Bayo when she came out which is why I decided not to play her. Any other suggestions? They honestly don't even have to be top tier or cover *all* of those matchups, just some of them.

As of the current meta, no character is the best, every character has their strengths and weaknesses that make them very close. As.a Wii fit trainer and villager secondary, there are quite a few matchups that I struggle to win, but I just need to play better.

For me, I'm just testing everybody out, I chose Wii fit and villager because they suit my defensive playstyle.

 

[Lamuh]

As of the current meta, no character is the best, every character has their strengths and weaknesses that make them very close. As.a Wii fit trainer and villager secondary, there are quite a few matchups that I struggle to win, but I just need to play better.

For me, I'm just testing everybody out, I chose Wii fit and villager because they suit my defensive playstyle.

I don't think that there is a "best" character either and I by no means meant to imply that there was or that I was looking for one to play. I'm simply stating that Cloud isn't to my liking due to the perception, which I share, that he requires very little investment for too much reward w/ gameplay. Some people disagree and some people play him for that reason which is fine. People can play what they want and how they want, that's not an issue. I just don't want to play him and I'm still looking for a secondary. I've tried a number of people but I can't seem to pick one to invest in for various reasons:

Comfortable picks that aren't actual secondaries:
Greninja - I can't land his footstool combos and that is super demotivating for me
Ryu - He's fun but I can't consistently land his strong tilts and strong specials
Shulk - Fun but too similar to Ike to make a secondary

Other picks that I *can* play but I'm not too good with:
Fox - I'm not good at landing decent combos with him
Sonic - I haven't put in enough practice to play against hyper defensive players
Corrin - One FE character is enough for me
Marth - One FE character is enough for me

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

L Lamuh are some good choices that I can think of that you haven't said no to. I can help you with the mu too. I main him.

 

[DJBor]

Taking down Fox, Mewtwo, Roy, and Greninja. You'll probably want to look for even matchups instead of winning matchups. Try out and keep working on some stuff. There are other solutions but this is the best I can think of right now

 

[Lamuh]

Nice_FZPSC.42 : my largest issue with Roy on Ike is that, while they hit about as hard and Ike has much better reach, I really struggle to keep up with Roy's speed. Any suggestion for handling that on Ike?

Both of you suggested a version of Pit? Why is that? Who/what is he good against that made both of you recommend him?

 

[Lamuh]

Eh, i think it will be between sonic, greninja and fox for a secondary. Can you guys try to sell me each one? Because i cant decide between those three gameplay-wise?

 

[DJBor]

Sounds good. Alright, here you go.

high speed rushdown character that rewards relentless pressure and combos. One loose hitbox can lead to loads of damage, and up smash and back air are straight up busted as KO options.
similar physics, completely different character. Relies on shuriken spacing and a variety of combo starters, and benefits from landing footstools more than pretty much any other character besides Lucas.
even faster than the above two. Requires high precision and a defensive neutral, and games take really long, but mixes up easier than any other character due to insane movement speed.
the exact opposite. a swordfighter who controls the space around him with arrows and blades, staying out of the air, stringing together simple combos and closing with either the upperdash, a forward throw, or a smash attack.