Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[Dre89]

Incoming wall of text.


cover all of your prerequisites. Ryu is a little on the average speed side, but he's not too bad.
covers all of them better than the ones above except for the BnB FAir (that's BAir or UAir or NAir for him) and the "short ranged" comment. (though only some moves suffer from this)
covers them all except for "good grab". It's her biggest flaw, but she can kill super early (same as MK) with UAir -> UpB strings. (Watch Leo vs. Mr R and Nairo vs. Dabuz at Paragon for examples of both.)
is in the same boat as ZSS. everything else is spot on but his grab is trash.
is a great choice too obviously since everything you don't care about is stuff he doesn't have. His grab is pretty poor but everything checks out (even the comment about the FAir, his FAir actually sets up his ground moves amazingly and can gimp)

would be perfect for you, but he's just a bit too slow so I didn't put him in the list of those who have everything you want. His punishing isn't slow in the slightest, however.

I recommend you consider those five too.

4th fastest running speed, has his blaster and decent melee range, good fast jab and all his tilts have a lot of good uses, his dash attack sets up for combos and his grab is nice and fast, good for punishing shields. He doesn't have very reliable grab followups, but they do exist. His FAir is good and can set up for stuff back on the ground, though his other aerials are better, and for killing early...USmash, UAir. That's all.
yikes this guy's scary. Decent ground speed, good range, amazing jab and tilts, good dash attack and grab, amazing FAir, and kills at like 60 with true Shoryuken which can be combo'd into.

I can't say anything about her that hasn't been said a million times. Let's just say she covers all your criteria and then some, and move on.

is just awesome. His jab is a bit iffy but it has quite a few uses so I gave it a pass, and everything else checks out amazingly.

Watch ZeRo or MVD and you'll get the gist of what this chimp can do (and he can do a lot.)


There's ten options for you that completely/mostly fit your criteria. Hope this was helpful!

Thanks man I couldn't have expected a better answer

 

[Pixel_]

Well, I'm stuck looking for another main. I can always fall back on, so it's ok if I don't get a good answer, but here:
- Doesn't rely on reads
- Doesn't rely on crazy-hard techs (e.g. Perfect Pivot)
- Prefer at least decent mobility (air and ground)
- Prefer good grab/throws
- Prefer good combos
- Prefer easier character

I'm able to B-reverse fine (but not Wavebounce, except for maybe B-stick), I'm pretty good with items, and with projectiles. I'm fine with using ANY character that fits these requirements, unless it's because I don't have them.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, I'm stuck looking for another main. I can always fall back on, so it's ok if I don't get a good answer, but here:
- Doesn't rely on reads
- Doesn't rely on crazy-hard techs (e.g. Perfect Pivot)
- Prefer at least decent mobility (air and ground)
- Prefer good grab/throws
- Prefer good combos
- Prefer easier character

I'm able to B-reverse fine (but not Wavebounce, except for maybe B-stick), I'm pretty good with items, and with projectiles. I'm fine with using ANY character that fits these requirements, unless it's because I don't have them.

Pit fits well, but those are some rather broad requirements. Anything else you're looking for?

 

[Pixel_]

Pit fits well, but those are some rather broad requirements. Anything else you're looking for?

lol yeah, I realized how vague I was. I'll keep thinking.

 

[Zethoro]

Well, I'm stuck looking for another main. I can always fall back on, so it's ok if I don't get a good answer, but here:
- Doesn't rely on reads
- Doesn't rely on crazy-hard techs (e.g. Perfect Pivot)
- Prefer at least decent mobility (air and ground)
- Prefer good grab/throws
- Prefer good combos
- Prefer easier character

I'm able to B-reverse fine (but not Wavebounce, except for maybe B-stick), I'm pretty good with items, and with projectiles. I'm fine with using ANY character that fits these requirements, unless it's because I don't have them.

Pick literally any top tier that isn't Rosa.
This means Shiek, Sonic, Yoshi, Mario, Fox, Ness, ZSS or Pikachu.

 

[Pixel_]

To narrow it down a little bit more, which ones require less inputs and precision?
EDIT: LOL, was Diddy needed out of top tier?
Whether he is or not, I'm trying him out and I think I'll stick with him for a while.

 

[Zethoro]

To narrow it down a little bit more, which ones require less inputs and precision?
EDIT: LOL, was Diddy needed out of top tier?
Whether he is or not, I'm trying him out and I think I'll stick with him for a while.

Ness and Mario.

Also, Diddy is not included because of "doesn't rely on hard tech" and "doesn't rely on reads." He's debatable which is why instead of specifically saying "except Rosa and Diddy" I just didn't mention him. He was an implied "etc."
Diddy is difficult now. He really needs his momentum tricks to land well, particularly solid item control (even more so than ROB since his item's much harder to be used by the opponent), great neutral game, and all his grab setups except low % UThrow UAir/BAir are heavily read-based.

 

[Ryoth]

I have struggling so much past month with so many chars I don't actually know who main...
My char preferences are

What I need or like -
Rather 'easy' kill moves/options. I'm bad at creating complex setups for killing my opponent
Mobility feels so good!
I'm bad at comboing, should learn tho
Active char > Reactive. Prefer forcing/pressure my oponent rather than wait an read him

Now talking some more about chars... and are the ones I'm swiching between this last weeks.
I fear playing with Diddy because he needs landing so many hits to kill, and feels complex. Otherwise my CFalcon helps me a lot in terms of killing fast but gets comboe'd so hard and seems so predictable... I dunno.

Could anyone help me with this issue? (Also sorry for my english, it's my 3th/4th language so I'll try to clarify any misunderstanding I swear!)

 

[Pixel_]

EDIT: lol, I think I'm fine with Ness.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

I have struggling so much past month with so many chars I don't actually know who main...
My char preferences are

What I need or like -
Rather 'easy' kill moves/options. I'm bad at creating complex setups for killing my opponent
Mobility feels so good!
I'm bad at comboing, should learn tho
Active char > Reactive. Prefer forcing/pressure my oponent rather than wait an read him

Now talking some more about chars... and are the ones I'm swiching between this last weeks.
I fear playing with Diddy because he needs landing so many hits to kill, and feels complex. Otherwise my CFalcon helps me a lot in terms of killing fast but gets comboe'd so hard and seems so predictable... I dunno.

Could anyone help me with this issue? (Also sorry for my english, it's my 3th/4th language so I'll try to clarify any misunderstanding I swear!)

I think or are your best bet from what you listed. Their combos are fairly easy, they've got mobility, pretty simple for KOs, although falcon's may be more difficult but they look cool most of the time. They both have good pressure, and while somebody he other characters you listed also have this, I think these two may be the best.

As for you English, I don't mind. I personally think from just reading your post it's very good. I hope my input helps.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Well, I'm stuck looking for another main. I can always fall back on, so it's ok if I don't get a good answer, but here:
- Doesn't rely on reads
- Doesn't rely on crazy-hard techs (e.g. Perfect Pivot)
- Prefer at least decent mobility (air and ground)
- Prefer good grab/throws
- Prefer good combos
- Prefer easier character

I'm able to B-reverse fine (but not Wavebounce, except for maybe B-stick), I'm pretty good with items, and with projectiles. I'm fine with using ANY character that fits these requirements, unless it's because I don't have them.

Pixel_ if you are still looking for an easy character, try Yoshi. The A button is your best friend.

But if you plan on going far competitively, you eventually need to put work with whoever you main, even with the "easy" characters.

IMO any top or high tier is an "easier character" than a mid or low tier. You may have to learn how to do extended dash-dances to play Falcon and Little Mac, but at the end of the day you'll be rewarded more for playing Falcon than putting up with Little Mac's issues. You should be deciding your main on what feels more rewarding to you instead, and if playing an easier character is the way to go for you then go for it, the world's your oyster.

 

[Marthmario]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Personally, I'd focus almost exclusively on Roy. He has everything you'd want (results, fun, loyalty) so why bother with anyone else?

Sorry about the double post everyone...


I agree with Zethro. Roy is a it more punishable (atleast to me), but he also has quite a bit more power with him... his fully-charged neutral-b even being an instant kill...

See, but would spreading my time between Ryu and Roy be bad?

 

[BlazeFlipnotes]

Can someone help me for a second? I'm tempted to switch to Fox but I also want to be loyal and stay as Greninja

Fox is obv the better character but I feel greninja has potential to be up there

I also have been using gren since day 1

 

[DavemanCozy]

Can someone help me for a second? I'm tempted to switch to Fox but I also want to be loyal and stay as Greninja

Fox is obv the better character but I feel greninja has potential to be up there

I also have been using gren since day 1

Both have similar fall speeds and chase opponents similarly, so transferring from one character to the other might not be too difficult. It's up to you in the end if you want to be a Greninja main purely or a Greninja main with a Foxy side

 

[Zethoro]

See, but would spreading my time between Ryu and Roy be bad?

No, if you like to play Ryu, by all means, do it.

 

[vict0rem]

Hey, I'm looking for a main. If y'all click on the link below it has all the info that I believe I need to provide.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3plqz5/choosing_a_smash_4_main/

 

[Zethoro]

Hey, I'm looking for a main. If y'all click on the link below it has all the info that I believe I need to provide.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3plqz5/choosing_a_smash_4_main/

I think Pichu would be your best option if that's your criteria.


That aside...I'm trying to find a high/top tier that appropriately fits my playstyle. I'm looking for:
A high/top tier
someone with good OoS options.
Someone who isn't too slow (Mario speed or higher)
Someone who gets a lot of reward for proper spacing and has strong spacing tools (which also means a strong neutral)
Someone who isn't really a zoning or campy character, but has a projectile that's good enough that they aren't going to really get camped out by most of the cast.
Someone who isn't .

For the record of who I consider high/top tier, consult this list.
https://scontent.fcou1-1.fna.fbcdn....05_1514143335577223_7586032555894406946_o.jpg
Anyone in B tier or higher is considered a high tier.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I think Pichu would be your best option if that's your criteria.


That aside...I'm trying to find a high/top tier that appropriately fits my playstyle. I'm looking for:
A high/top tier
someone with good OoS options.
Someone who isn't too slow (Mario speed or higher)
Someone who gets a lot of reward for proper spacing and has strong spacing tools (which also means a strong neutral)
Someone who isn't really a zoning or campy character, but has a projectile that's good enough that they aren't going to really get camped out by most of the cast.
Someone who isn't .

For the record of who I consider high/top tier, consult this list.
https://scontent.fcou1-1.fna.fbcdn....05_1514143335577223_7586032555894406946_o.jpg
Anyone in B tier or higher is considered a high tier.

Sounds like you want Mario. He's high tier, he has two great out of shield options, you'll never get punished if you have good spacing, he has a decent projectile and a reflector, and most importantly, he isn't Sheik.

 

[mario123007]

Sounds like you want Mario. He's high tier, he has two great out of shield options, you'll never get punished if you have good spacing, he has a decent projectile and a reflector, and most importantly, he isn't Sheik.

Mario is indeed a good character for beginners or character choosing wanders, like my brother.

 

[LancerStaff]

I think Pichu would be your best option if that's your criteria.


That aside...I'm trying to find a high/top tier that appropriately fits my playstyle. I'm looking for:
A high/top tier
someone with good OoS options.
Someone who isn't too slow (Mario speed or higher)
Someone who gets a lot of reward for proper spacing and has strong spacing tools (which also means a strong neutral)
Someone who isn't really a zoning or campy character, but has a projectile that's good enough that they aren't going to really get camped out by most of the cast.
Someone who isn't .

For the record of who I consider high/top tier, consult this list.
https://scontent.fcou1-1.fna.fbcdn....05_1514143335577223_7586032555894406946_o.jpg
Anyone in B tier or higher is considered a high tier.

Pit I think would fit better then Mario because he has a lot more range and a significantly better projectile. OoS game isn't as good but still strong, and he's much faster on the ground then Mario. Air speed is kinda terrible but his air acceleration is great and has a bunch of jumps too.

 

[vict0rem]

Okay well let's see if I describe my play style a bit better.
I'm looking for:
a high/top tier
someone with a decent aerial game
is fast
has either long hitboxes/multiple hitboxes

 

[Cindella]

I've been playing this game for a while now. I've been in three online tournaments, and done poorly in all of them. I've played 28 characters for two weeks or more, and learned the combos, strategies, mixups, etc. of them. I don't know how to choose a character I can stick with. I know how to get good at a game and win - I just don't know how to pick a character to do it with.

Any advice?

 

[Zethoro]

Pit I think would fit better then Mario because he has a lot more range and a significantly better projectile. OoS game isn't as good but still strong, and he's much faster on the ground then Mario. Air speed is kinda terrible but his air acceleration is great and has a bunch of jumps too.

Pit's OoS game is pretty lackluster. Mario's is decent, but not really what I'm looking for.

Okay well let's see if I describe my play style a bit better.
I'm looking for:
a high/top tier
someone with a decent aerial game
is fast
has either long hitboxes/multiple hitboxes

,,,,(ish), , , ... what you just asked for describes most of the top tiers. Take your pick.

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit's OoS game is pretty lackluster. Mario's is decent, but not really what I'm looking for.



,,,,(ish), , , ... what you just asked for describes most of the top tiers. Take your pick.

Dunno how a frame 6 Usmash and a rising aerial of your choosing is lackluster but whatever...

 

[BigDewgong]

I've recently started playing Smash Bros on Wii U and i want to get good with a character, but I'm really torn.

On the one hand I really like Kirby, but my weakness is definitely my aerial play. I don't know how to explain it, I'm bad at stringing together aerials and following like some people do. It seems really important to fluidly string together hits but it feels so hard to do, especially online.

For the most part I just punish people rolling and whiffing, and try to catch people with dair into literally anything.

I've been told that kirby is very basic overall, and requires a huge amount of game knowledge. I'm not sure if I should try someone else, or maybe someone with more reliable or true combos.

I like punishing, approaching, etc. But it feels so hard to get in people's faces with kirby sometimes. Does anyone have any advice?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Practice against lvl 3 CPUs to get a sense fluidity with your character. What you're describing is something execution-based and doing this will help get that up. Another note,

I need help finding a character. I love characters with lots of freedom to them where I can just do whatever I want.

 

[Zethoro]

Dunno how a frame 6 Usmash and a rising aerial of your choosing is lackluster but whatever...

There are a ton of other reasons why I dislike Pit.

 

[LancerStaff]

There are a ton of other reasons why I dislike Pit.

Could of said that rather then make something up, yaknow.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Could of said that rather then make something up, yaknow.

Just gonna step in here before somebody gets mad and say it's all good.....he doesn't like Pit and that's enough I'm sure. Not saying anyone is mad but you can never tell with messaging

 

[Zethoro]

Could of said that rather then make something up, yaknow.

I could be wrong, but my definition of a good OoS is something that's fast with a wide range on the ground to properly punish aerials. Some examples of really good OoS options are Samus's and Bowser's UpBs, or Yoshi's NAir. Pit's USmash, while fast, has a somewhat narrow horizontal hitbox, and his aerials can be SDI'd out of rather easily, from what I've seen. That's why I said his OoS game is lackluster. I do appreciate the input regardless.

Just gonna step in here before somebody gets mad and say it's all good.....he doesn't like Pit and that's enough I'm sure. Not saying anyone is mad but you can never tell with messaging

It's fine, I'm not. No worries.

 

[LancerStaff]

I could be wrong, but my definition of a good OoS is something that's fast with a wide range on the ground to properly punish aerials. Some examples of really good OoS options are Samus's and Bowser's UpBs, or Yoshi's NAir. Pit's USmash, while fast, has a somewhat narrow horizontal hitbox, and his aerials can be SDI'd out of rather easily, from what I've seen. That's why I said his OoS game is lackluster. I do appreciate the input regardless.

There's enough range on Usmash to punish a ton of good aerials OoS... Being frame 6 and killing at like 90% means the opponent can't afford to misspace an aerial.

People falling out of his aerials isn't really a thing anymore. Okay, fullhopping Nair usually fails on grounded opponents but you'd never want to do that anyway. Fair and Uair hit much too rapidly to give the opponent time to escape. Actually, I can't even remember the last time somebody just fell out of either move without actively trying to make them escape. Nair can be SDI'd, but it's still quite rare and can end up being chased by another Nair or Usmash if it's escaped in a SH. And then probably our best aerial OoS is Dair, a single-hit chop that ends before Pit's SH even finishes which leads into juggles or even a proper kill combo if they miss the tech when we get a spike. Perhaps a bit on the slow side but there's great risk/reward.

Just a bit of a sore spot to have people be wrong how the character works... People end up avoiding him or otherwise make discussion more difficult because they think he's much worse in an aspect then he actually is. Oftentimes it's something he's good at in reality.

 

[Zethoro]

There's enough range on Usmash to punish a ton of good aerials OoS... Being frame 6 and killing at like 90% means the opponent can't afford to misspace an aerial.

People falling out of his aerials isn't really a thing anymore. Okay, fullhopping Nair usually fails on grounded opponents but you'd never want to do that anyway. Fair and Uair hit much too rapidly to give the opponent time to escape. Actually, I can't even remember the last time somebody just fell out of either move without actively trying to make them escape. Nair can be SDI'd, but it's still quite rare and can end up being chased by another Nair or Usmash if it's escaped in a SH. And then probably our best aerial OoS is Dair, a single-hit chop that ends before Pit's SH even finishes which leads into juggles or even a proper kill combo if they miss the tech when we get a spike. Perhaps a bit on the slow side but there's great risk/reward.

Just a bit of a sore spot to have people be wrong how the character works... People end up avoiding him or otherwise make discussion more difficult because they think he's much worse in an aspect then he actually is. Oftentimes it's something he's good at in reality.

I get the strengths in his OoS game, it's just not the OoS game I want.
Even if his OoS game was what I wanted, I still wouldn't pick him for that recovery alone. I'm fine with most of the recoveries in the game, but in particular Pit's and Duck Hunt's are just dumb and I can't stand playing as them for that reason alone.

 

[LancerStaff]

I get the strengths in his OoS game, it's just not the OoS game I want.
Even if his OoS game was what I wanted, I still wouldn't pick him for that recovery alone. I'm fine with most of the recoveries in the game, but in particular Pit's and Duck Hunt's are just dumb and I can't stand playing as them for that reason alone.

...Pit's recovery is good though. Like, it's not even comparable to Duck Hunt's.

 

[Zethoro]

...Pit's recovery is good though. Like, it's not even comparable to Duck Hunt's.

It's only good for its speed and distance. If your opponent is good at edgeguarding, you get destroyed, especially against Mario.
Recoveries without decent hitboxes are bad, with few exceptions. (ROB, Olimar, Villager.)

 

[LancerStaff]

It's only good for its speed and distance. If your opponent is good at edgeguarding, you get destroyed, especially against Mario.
Recoveries without decent hitboxes are bad, with few exceptions. (ROB, Olimar, Villager.)

Half the time you don't even need to use Uspecial... Even when you do, you have arrows to cover yourself. Honestly, Mario isn't much of a threat unless there's a low wall to jump off of since the cape doesn't really work against his Fspecial.

A common misconception is that Pit needs to slowly float underneath the ledge before using Uspecial. In reality the move can be aimed at a number of angles, including almost straight sideways. Unless we're talking about 1.0.0 Lylat it doesn't take much effort to position yourself.

For most characters it takes a good deal of effort to even hit him out of a Uspecial since it's so flexible. Even if they do, it's probably going to be like a sour Nair or something and Pit will just Uspecial straight back to the ledge before the opponent can afford to throw out another attack. Or he would of saved some jumps and Fspecial back with SA since it's often pointless to just burn jumps.

Pit's recovery being bad is just another misconception...

 

[TAFJ]

I've been playing this game for a while now. I've been in three online tournaments, and done poorly in all of them. I've played 28 characters for two weeks or more, and learned the combos, strategies, mixups, etc. of them. I don't know how to choose a character I can stick with. I know how to get good at a game and win - I just don't know how to pick a character to do it with.

Any advice?

I had a similar problem. I wanted to play so many characters. Charizard, Robin, Luinca... Until I finally realized, I don't like the fighter, I liked the character. Sure, I made it okay-ish for a while, but compared to R.O.B. (a character I really enjoyed on all fronts) they just didn't hold up. I would suggest trying to find out WHY you like each individual character, and if its character loyalty, or nostalgia, or whatever, I'd probably cut them. Not to say you have to play a character you hate. With 50+ characters in the roster and counting, you are bound to find a at least a few characters you like and enjoy playing as.

 

[Zethoro]

Half the time you don't even need to use Uspecial... Even when you do, you have arrows to cover yourself. Honestly, Mario isn't much of a threat unless there's a low wall to jump off of since the cape doesn't really work against his Fspecial.

A common misconception is that Pit needs to slowly float underneath the ledge before using Uspecial. In reality the move can be aimed at a number of angles, including almost straight sideways. Unless we're talking about 1.0.0 Lylat it doesn't take much effort to position yourself.

For most characters it takes a good deal of effort to even hit him out of a Uspecial since it's so flexible. Even if they do, it's probably going to be like a sour Nair or something and Pit will just Uspecial straight back to the ledge before the opponent can afford to throw out another attack. Or he would of saved some jumps and Fspecial back with SA since it's often pointless to just burn jumps.

Pit's recovery being bad is just another misconception...

I know it can be angled. I would think that's fairly obvious.
Even though it can be angled, it's still predictable. Characters with a fast attack can interrupt it rather easily, and then it's back to square one, often with less jumps avaliable. As for Side-B, its super armor is so unreliable I wouldn't trust that thing. I have someone in my region who uses Pit, and any time Pit tries to Side-B to the ledge, I can either DTilt her if Pit's aiming for the ledge, or just dropkick on reaction if Pit goes too high. I've never seen the Super armor actually beat out either of those attacks. While it's useful, it's not perfect, not by a long shot.

 

[LancerStaff]

I know it can be angled. I would think that's fairly obvious.
Even though it can be angled, it's still predictable. Characters with a fast attack can interrupt it rather easily, and then it's back to square one, often with less jumps avaliable. As for Side-B, its super armor is so unreliable I wouldn't trust that thing. I have someone in my region who uses Pit, and any time Pit tries to Side-B to the ledge, I can either DTilt her if Pit's aiming for the ledge, or just dropkick on reaction if Pit goes too high. I've never seen the Super armor actually beat out either of those attacks. While it's useful, it's not perfect, not by a long shot.

Considering the SA on his Fspecial is 100% reliable when used right (no amount of damage or KB will break it when the SA is active), I'm questioning the ability of this Pit player...

 

[Zethoro]

Considering the SA on his Fspecial is 100% reliable when used right (no amount of damage or KB will break it when the SA is active), I'm questioning the ability of this Pit player...

When is the super armor active?

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

When is the super armor active?

Majority of the move. It should super armor through almost anything. Also if the move super armors through something, it becomes stronger than just a raw hit, if I know my facts correctly