The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

I could've sworn that it was said that DLC characters will not get Amiibos?

They said the EXACT opposite.

Spoiler

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

No, we're not.

Every fanbase has some less-than-savory members, or people you simply don't agree with. It's easy to blind yourself to the majority due to a prominent minority.

The Robin fanbase is full of great people; we've bonded together through our support of a character we earnestly wanted to see in Smash, despite so many detractors trying to crush our dream. We're not so different from you all, really.

I'd appreciate it if you did not generalize my friends as snobs incapable of understanding others.

I would like to meet these great people. Hopefully they have what it takes to undo a few years of pain and alienation in my most invested community over the last five years. Otherwise, I can't promise to come to a compromise, but I'll keep it much less vocal.

 

[Tahu Mata]

I could've sworn that it was said that DLC characters will not get Amiibos?

Like Gueneapig1256 and The Revolutionary Cafe said, there will be Amiibos for Lucas and Mewtwo, and that alone pretty much confirms they're coming for all other DLC characters as well.

I'm really sorry for my temporary absence, by the way. For some reason my Alerts all of sudden stopped telling me when there were new replies and other stuff in this thread.

 

[Wintropy]

No, we're not.

Every fanbase has some less-than-savory members, or people you simply don't agree with. It's easy to blind yourself to the majority due to a prominent minority.

The Robin fanbase is full of great people; we've bonded together through our support of a character we earnestly wanted to see in Smash, despite so many detractors trying to crush our dream. We're not so different from you all, really.

I'd appreciate it if you did not generalize my friends as snobs incapable of understanding others.

This.

The Robin social thread is my favourite place on these forums. :3

 

[Tahu Mata]

I'm gonna be completely honest. I was initially a bit salty when Robin was revealed because it wasn't Shulk, but as time went on and I looked up more of his character, I grew to really like him.

Shulk was already revealed by the time I did this, so it was a double win for me.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

This.

The Robin social thread is my favourite place on these forums. :3

>Looks at thread
>Sees a few of the people who have treated me and Roy like garbage on other boards and the front page
>Nothing but FE:A and FE:If, seems like the only FE games to them

Those aren't the people who are going to give me hope, they'd only make the wounds deeper.

Still willing to give chances, but I'm not going to apologize or change my mind until someone proves me wrong on Robin and Awakening's fanbases.

 

[Wintropy]

>Looks at thread
>Sees a few of the people who have treated me and Roy like garbage on other boards and the front page
>Nothing but FE:A and FE:If, seems like the only FE games to them

Those aren't the people who are going to give me hope, they'd only make the wounds deeper.

Still willing to give chances, but I'm not going to apologize or change my mind until someone proves me wrong on Robin and Awakening's fanbases.

That kind of attitude doesn't help.

Nobody likes a martyr.

 

[Warlock*G]

[...] Still willing to give chances, but I'm not going to apologize or change my mind until someone proves me wrong on Robin and Awakening's fanbases.

1) An opinion, by definition, cannot ever be proven "wrong" or "right"; it can only be influenced.
2) It is no big deal if you don't change your mind.

 

[lightdasher]

I'm not here to start anything, but why do a lot of people think Roy would be redone when Mewtwo, Falco, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Lucas and many other "clones" haven't? (I say many other because I'm not sure if I missed anyone)

 

[Lord Eliwood]

I'm not here to start anything, but why do a lot of people think Roy would be redone when Mewtwo, Falco, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Lucas and many other "clones" haven't? (I say many other because I'm not sure if I missed anyone)

Mewtwo isn't a clone and has no clones based on him

Falco and Ganondorf were decloned over the past few iterations

Lucas is a semi-clone at worst, he shares little with Ness. Seeing as how Mewtwo didn't need changes and received quite a few that weren't needed, the trailer is a horrible final judgment on Lucas

Dr. Mario is literally Mario in a labcoat, it's not like he's going to change his fighting style without some kung fu getup

Yoshi and Bowser were remade from the ground up to fix their low tier syndrome over the years, Mewtwo had something similar, and Roy was always next to Mewtwo in the tiers

Pit was remade to be more faithful to his source material and newest game

Roy doesn't exist in the same world or time as Marth, and fights nothing like him in source material. He was also originally planned to be in Brawl, where most of the decloning took place. A redesign is far from being out of the question

 

[False Sense]

Mewtwo isn't a clone and has no clones based on him

Falco and Ganondorf were decloned over the past few iterations

Lucas is a semi-clone at worst, he shares little with Ness. Seeing as how Mewtwo didn't need changes and received quite a few, the trailer is a horrible final judgment on Lucas

Dr. Mario is literally Mario in a labcoat, it's not like he's going to change his fighting style without some kung fu getup

Roy doesn't exist in the same world or time as Marth, and fights nothing like him in source material. He was also originally planned to be in Brawl, where most of the decloning took place

Playing devil's advocate here, but isn't one of the main reasons clones remain (mostly) clones because Sakurai doesn't want fans of their original playstyle to be alienated? Isn't that also why Mewtwo and Lucas are mostly unchanged, aside from balancing tweaks?

With that in mind, why would Roy be an exception to this rule?

 

[Tahu Mata]

I'm not here to start anything, but why do a lot of people think Roy would be redone when Mewtwo, Falco, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Lucas and many other "clones" haven't? (I say many other because I'm not sure if I missed anyone)

Mewtwo's not a clone.
Dr. Mario was added literally at the last minute in Smash 4, so they didn't really have time to differentiate him more.
Falco and Ganondorf have already been differentiated enough, and I think that's as far as Sakurai is willing to go when it comes to changing them because he doesn't wanna alienate the people who play them.
Lucas is already very different from Ness, so they didn't need to change him.

We're thinking Roy has a chance of being decloned because he's literally never had the chance to. Seeing as he was probably going to be in Brawl, it only adds to this, as I'm pretty sure he would've gotten the Falco/Ganondorf treatment, and with his likely return, they'll most likely go with the ideas they probably had for him.

 

[Lord Eliwood]

Playing devil's advocate here, but isn't one of the main reasons clones remain (mostly) clones because Sakurai doesn't want fans of their original playstyle to be alienated? Isn't that also why Mewtwo and Lucas are mostly unchanged, aside from balancing tweaks?

With that in mind, why would Roy be an exception to this rule?

Mewtwo and Lucas are mainly unchanged because they aren't clones, Lucas being a semi-clone at worst and I'd say even thats a stretch

Roy would be an exception because of how much grief he gets for being a second Marth clone on every other forum post about Roy and with how many people ask for a redesign or new moveset. Nintendo watches a lot of what fans say

 

[Tahu Mata]

Mewtwo and Lucas are mainly unchanged because they aren't clones, Lucas being a semi-clone at worst and I'd say even thats a stretch

Roy would be an exception because of how much grief he gets for being a second Marth clone on every other forum post about Roy and with how many people ask for a redesign or new moveset. Nintendo watches a lot of what fans say

This. That, and Lucina already took the spot as the Marth clone, so Roy should get differentiated.

 

[lightdasher]

Mewtwo's not a clone.

...I never said Mewtwo was a clone, although technically he's a clone of Mew

Falco and Ganondorf have already been differentiated enough, and I think that's as far as Sakurai is willing to go when it comes to

Pretty sure you'd get a lot of fans getting mad that a fire marth got a new moveset before characters like Black Falcon and Bird Fox did.

We're thinking Roy has a chance of being decloned because he's literally never had the chance to. Seeing as he was probably going to be in Brawl, it only adds to this, as I'm pretty sure he would've gotten the Falco/Ganondorf treatment, and with his likely return, they'll most likely go with the ideas they probably had for him.

Yet Mewtwo also had the chance, what makes Roy so special?

 

[Croph]

Ah... I'm late on what happened before.

While people have different experiences with fanbases, like for example on different sites or groups, I would still suggest avoiding generalizations. It's true that every fanbase has people with poor attitudes that just causes toxicity, but we should try to look at the mistakes that they made, so we could try to prevent the same mistakes for the future. I didn't have much problems with the Robin fanbase, but that's just me.

Anyways, I'd like to drop this and focus on Roy, since this is the Roy thread, I apologize for being a piece of **** in general. I shouldn't try to come back if I'm only going to cause harm or pick on fanbases. Being excluded for a few years from the FE fanbase was probably a good thing, because I'm too toxic for it anyhow. I'm only going to be excluded further once my usefulness as a tool to help Roy expires, and it's probably for the best.

"Toxic"? You?

Oh boy, I have seen worse. Much, much worse. Still, I don't know the full story what went on years ago, but why would people exclude you? You're talking about here right? Because I hate to see any Roy fan & supporter excluded from this community (okay, maybe if the person has a very ****ty and toxic attitude, but I haven't came across people like that too often and they got infractions for other things). We all came together because of one common goal and worked our asses off year after year supporting Roy. I would like to celebrate with everyone if we do get Roy, but also still keep in touch with them.

If you still want to talk about things, you can always shoot me a PM (since you said you want to drop things, sorry).

Yet Mewtwo also had the chance, what makes Roy so special?

I said this in the RTC thread, but I think it still applies here:

I mean, clone characters like Luigi, Falco, Ganon, etc. have gotten fleshed out over the installments. Roy was also planned for Brawl, so the team probably had some rough ideas for changes to his moveset, especially considering how the other clones like Falco and Ganon got changes.

Fast forward to Smash 4, Mewtwo doesn't need drastic changes since his moveset is already unique. Lucas is unique enough. At the very least I could see Roy being similar to Ganon/Falco.

Roy's situation is different because with DLC you're selling a single character as oppose to the whole roster. They might go the extra mile and de-clone Roy (or make him similar to Lucas) if they feel like Roy being a clone may not be as profitable and would like Roy to have a better selling point (still think he'd be profitable if he's still clone-ish).

Actually, I could only see Roy being unique as Lucas if they really plan to go the extra mile, since Lucas seems to have no drastic changes done (although he may get some more tweaks before his release, who knows). Still kinda expecting Roy to be like Falco/Ganon at the very least. Who knows, really. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

 

[Lord Eliwood]

...I never said Mewtwo was a clone, although technically he's a clone of Mew

I'm not here to start anything, but why do a lot of people think Roy would be redone when Mewtwo, Falco, Doctor Mario, Ganondorf, Lucas and many other "clones" haven't? (I say many other because I'm not sure if I missed anyone)

Pretty sure you'd get a lot of fans getting mad that a fire marth got a new moveset before characters like Black Falcon and Bird Fox did.

*after

Please don't call Roy "fire marth" he has a name

Falco and Ganondorf got new movesets in Brawl. I don't see them as clones now, but if those fans want them to be even more unique, it's up to them to submit feedback for it

Yet Mewtwo also had the chance, what makes Roy so special?

Because of what I already said, and because Mewtwo needed literally no moveset changes to be a completely unique character. He is not a clone of any playable character and never was

Heres a taste of what makes Roy special, since you can't be bothered to think of more than "fire marth"

 

[Tahu Mata]

*after

Please don't call Roy "fire marth" he has a name

Falco and Ganondorf got new movesets in Brawl. I don't see them as clones now, but if those fans want them to be even more unique, it's up to them to submit feedback for it



Because of what I already said, and because Mewtwo needed literally no moveset changes to be a completely unique character. He is not a clone of any playable character and never was

Heres a taste of what makes Roy special, since you can't be bothered to think of more than "fire marth"

I said this in the RTC thread, but I think it still applies here:

I mean, clone characters like Luigi, Falco, Ganon, etc. have gotten fleshed out over the installments. Roy was also planned for Brawl, so the team probably had some rough ideas for changes to his moveset, especially considering how the other clones like Falco and Ganon got changes.

Fast forward to Smash 4, Mewtwo doesn't need drastic changes since his moveset is already unique. Lucas is unique enough. At the very least I could see Roy being similar to Ganon/Falco.

Roy's situation is different because with DLC you're selling a single character as oppose to the whole roster. They might go the extra mile and de-clone Roy (or make him similar to Lucas) if they feel like Roy being a clone may not be as profitable and would like Roy to have a better selling point (still think he'd be profitable if he's still clone-ish).

Actually, I could only see Roy being unique as Lucas if they really plan to go the extra mile, since Lucas seems to have no drastic changes done (although he may get some more tweaks before his release, who knows). Still kinda expecting Roy to be like Falco/Ganon at the very least. Who knows, really. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Both of these. I was gonna post my own reply, but they beat me to it.

 

[lightdasher]

*after

Please don't call Roy "fire marth" he has a name

Falco and Ganondorf got new movesets in Brawl. I don't see them as clones now, but if those fans want them to be even more unique, it's up to them to submit feedback for it



Because of what I already said, and because Mewtwo needed literally no moveset changes to be a completely unique character. He is not a clone of any playable character and never was

Heres a taste of what makes Roy special, since you can't be bothered to think of more than "fire marth"

Critical hit looks like Eirikas, or maybe Eirikas looks like Roys, but even then it's still a sword thrust like Marth and Lucina, Roy wasn't the first character to have a ranged sword attack, look at Leif or Celica, Ike has a projectile on one of his weapons but that is absent too, also a lot of thrusting and swinging, nothing I've not seen another lord do before,

Please don't call Roy "fire marth" he has a name

I find it biased that you only got mad at me calling Roy "fire marth" but not calling Ganondorf "Black Falcon" or Falco "Bird Fox"

 

[Oblivion129]

Melee clones were already pretty different. You couldn't just switch between Fox and Falco without learning how to play them. They had different combos and properties.
Marth/Lucina and Pit/Dark Pit are really similar, though.

I still think the most likely route is a semi-cloned Roy like Falco and Ganondorf. The smash team has to remake the character from scratch, so they might as well add in a few changes. He'll also have to be balanced the same way the regular characters were since he's so different from Marth. Meanwhile, Lucina and Dark Pit were only balanced in the Marth vs Lucina and Pit vs Dark Pit Match-up respectively.

 

[Rock & Roller Wabbit]

So...
I don't know if it's been discussed yet, but Roy (The Koopaling)'s sound file was changed.
So... anyone think Roy's moveset will be changed?

 

[lightdasher]

So...
I don't know if it's been discussed yet, but Roy (The Koopaling)'s sound file was changed.
So... anyone think Roy's moveset will be changed?

What sound? And personally I think he'll just come back in as he was in Melee, I forget if he had a different side B though

Melee clones were already pretty different. You couldn't just switch between Fox and Falco without learning how to play them. They had different combos and properties.
Marth/Lucina and Pit/Dark Pit are really similar, though.

I still think the most likely route is a semi-cloned Roy like Falco and Ganondorf. The smash team has to remake the character from scratch, so they might as well add in a few changes. He'll also have to be balanced the same way the regular characters were since he's so different from Marth. Meanwhile, Lucina and Dark Pit were only balanced in the Marth vs Lucina and Pit vs Dark Pit Match-up respectively.

But from a casual side you could play them literally the same way

 

[Lord Eliwood]

Critical hit looks like Eirikas, or maybe Eirikas looks like Roys, but even then it's still a sword thrust like Marth and Lucina, Roy wasn't the first character to have a ranged sword attack, look at Leif or Celica, Ike has a projectile on one of his weapons but that is absent too, also a lot of thrusting and swinging, nothing I've not seen another lord do before,



I find it biased that you only got mad at me calling Roy "fire marth" but not calling Captain Falcon "Black Falcon" or Falco "Bird Fox"

Are you serious? Are you trying your absolute hardest to troll the thread? It seems like youre rambling just to ramble and nothing else. While Roy isn't the first lord to have a ranged attack, hes the first lord in smash to, and his lunges are almost nothing like what any of the other lords do. You're also saying "oh these lords had ranged attacks first" but thing is that none of them are in smash and roy is more justifiable to include (I was pointed to royforsmash4.com and found this thread, give it a read if you're not sold on Roy being the best FE candidate). Of course any weapon fighter is going to do nothing but slash, swing, and thrust, every fist and foot wielder is going to do nothing but punch and kick, etc. Palutena does nothing but swing and thrust a rod for her weaponry use and she's nowhere near a clone character, Roy could be the same in terms of how unique he is

I was irritated with Black Falcon and Bird Fox, but I already said theyre not clones, so I didnt exactly dodge it. Speaking of dodges, Roy has his own sidestep deal which would be part of his de clone process

 

[Lord Eliwood]

What sound? And personally I think he'll just come back in as he was in Melee, I forget if he had a different side B though


But from a casual side you could play them literally the same way

You can play marth exactly like fox or villager from a casual standpoint

 

[Tahu Mata]

So...
I don't know if it's been discussed yet, but Roy (The Koopaling)'s sound file was changed.
So... anyone think Roy's moveset will be changed?

Oh, I didn't know that, that's interesting.

I personally think they will, and as to why:

We're thinking Roy has a chance of being decloned because he's literally never had the chance to. Seeing as he was probably going to be in Brawl, it only adds to this, as I'm pretty sure he would've gotten the Falco/Ganondorf treatment, and with his likely return, they'll most likely go with the ideas they probably had for him.

 

[lightdasher]

Are you serious? Are you trying your absolute hardest to troll the thread?

Me pointing out things that make Roy not special is not trolling, it's a Roy thread, not a Roy circlejerk.

While Roy isn't the first lord to have a ranged attack

That's right he-

hes the first lord in smash to

-doesn't use a projectile in Smash.

roy is more justifiable to include

See, this right here, is what I see as an opinion, I personally think Eirka, Ephriam, Hector, Lyn (rip) Eliwood, Micaiah and Shiida are more justifiable, but that's my opinion, and I respect yours also, don't think I'm just coming in here to stir ****.

(I was pointed to royforsmash4.com and found this thread, give it a read if you're not sold on Roy being the best FE candidate).

I did give it a read, there's a lot (not everything) of things on there that I personally do not agree with or find that they are wrong, but that's just me, I'd be happy to go into details if you really want me to.

I'm a big Fire Emblem fan by the way, I was really put off Roy as a character after playing his game, so maybe I have some bias myself against him.

You can play marth exactly like fox or villager from a casual standpoint

I'd love to see you spamming projectiles as Marth

 

[Lord Eliwood]

Me pointing out things that make Roy not special is not trolling, it's a Roy thread, not a Roy circlejerk.


That's right he-

-doesn't use a projectile in Smash.


See, this right here, is what I see as an opinion, I personally think Eirka, Ephriam, Hector, Lyn (rip) Eliwood, Micaiah and Shiida are more justifiable, but that's my opinion, and I respect yours also, don't think I'm just coming in here to stir ****.


I did give it a read, there's a lot (not everything) of things on there that I personally do not agree with or find that they are wrong, but that's just me, I'd be happy to go into details if you really want me to.

I'm a big Fire Emblem fan by the way, I was really put off Roy as a character after playing his game, so maybe I have some bias myself against him.


I'd love to see you spamming projectiles as Marth

A lot of people have been pushing for him to use a flame projectile or wall in smash.

Also read this, I looked at it after it updated and it finally won me over:

• Roy for Smash 4 - Home
• Why does Roy deserve to return?
• Support Roy here! Reaching the Big Dogs
• Ideas on handling Roy's return
• Credit & Contact Us

NOTE: This section is simply meant to tackle specific points from Roy's detractors, and to convince those not sold on Roy for specific reasons. CTRL+F and the Table of Contents are your friends.
If you decide to tackle it all, this page is extremely long, but it covers Roy's importance, potential issues, and why Roy deserves to be in from as many angles as possible. Keep in mind that it's over 3,000 words and 17,000 characters long.

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

• Roy's Importance to Fire Emblem
• What Roy would bring for Sm4sh and Fire Emblem
• What Roy's newfound relevancy could be used for
• Does Fire Emblem deserve a fifth fighter?
• Is Roy Relevant?
• How was relevancy used for other returning veterans?
• "Roy isn't unique. We don't need another Marth. Vote for someone unique, like Hector or Ephraim."
• "We all know Sakurai wouldn't redesign him" and "For those who don't mind him returning as a clone"
• "Lucina plays just like Roy"
• Roy's niche as a fighter
• Is Roy in the same boat as Chrom?
• "Roy was just an advertisement for his game. He had his turn. No reason for him to return."
• Is Roy well-liked, and do people like his game?
• Why do people even like Roy?
• Potential Issues Regarding Roy's Return: How they aren’t truly issues:

Roy's Importance to Fire Emblem:

• Saving the series:
  
  Shouzou Kaga, who originally created and worked on Fire Emblem, left after the fifth game along with his team. As the sixth game, Roy's game helped revive the series to ultimately make it what it is today. Without Roy, we wouldn't have Ike, Robin, or Lucina.

• Bringing the series overseas:
  
  The popularity of Marth and Roy brought Fire Emblem overseas, due to their western popularity in Super Smash Bros. Melee.
  The first Fire Emblem game to come overseas was a prequel to Roy's story. Without Roy and how much this prequel built off Roy's story, it wouldn't even have a base to exist upon.

What Roy would bring for Sm4sh and Fire Emblem:

• Proper Fire Emblem representation. Elibe is the only international Fire Emblem continent with two games that doesn't have a playable rep. Roy would also represent the GBA part of the series, while Marth covers the NES SNES, and DS, Ike covers the Gamecube and Wii, and Robin/Lucina cover the 3DS. Roy, as the most clear-cut leading character of Elibe, a continent that makes two-thirds of the GBA Fire Emblem games, would be the perfect representative choice of one of the biggest systems for Fire Emblem (3 Fire Emblems on GBA rivals only the SNES having three Fire Emblems) and one of the biggest continents for the series, both of which lack representation.
• Roy is the only veteran missing out of the Fire Emblem fighters, which means he has popularity from Super Smash Bros. Melee backing him, and he would give many players their main back. That cannot be said for any other Fire Emblem character, or for newcomers.
• Fire Emblem lacks proper representation of its roots. While we have Marth and Ike standing for two major points of the series, Roy is a missing gap directly between them. Not only that, but half of Fire Emblem's playable representation is from the newest game, Awakening, which is only a thirteenth of the current series, and even less when the upcoming games are accounted for. An older character would be arguably much better for the health of the series than an upcoming protagonist or another Awakening character, either would simply cause an unhealthy imbalance in Fire Emblem's representation.

What Roy's newfound relevancy could be used for:

• Fire Emblem: Binding Blade on Virtual Console for the Wii U, or a remake of the game would bring Fire Emblem to more modern Nintendo fans, and it'd tie in well with the Virtual Console release of Fire Emblem, because of its cliffhanger in the ending leading directly into Roy's game. An earlier promotion of Roy would prevent all complaints of his statistics or viability.
• A sequel to Binding Blade on the Wii U could bring out the best of the console for a core Fire Emblem experience, while Shin Megami Tensei branches into something new for Fire Emblem, and Hoshido and Nohr cover the handheld side.

Does Fire Emblem deserve a fifth fighter?

• Fire Emblem is currently going strong. With Hoshido and Nohr coming to the 3DS, Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem coming to the Wii U, and the revival of the TCG hitting the trading card market, Fire Emblem is currently one of Nintendo's largest franchises.
• Besides the current state and the future of the series, Fire Emblem also has strong roots. The series spans back to the 90's with over a dozen games across multiple generations of Nintendo platforms, featuring hundreds of unique characters, each with their own backstory, personality, and stats. Why should only four of those characters be represented?

Is Roy Relevant?

• With a redesign in Fire Emblem: Awakening, and an appearance in the Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem trailer, he has plenty of relevancy for a Fire Emblem character. He's also one of the most prominently-featured characters in a drawing by Yusuke Kozaki, artist of Fire Emblem: Awakening, and Fire Emblem: If, which commemorates the 25th anniversary of the series, 2015. Roy can be seen all the way to the left, with his arms crossed.

• Not only is Roy relevant to the recent games of the series, he also has high chances to return to several games in the series. Fire Emblem Hoshido/Nohr and the Fire Emblem TCG both feature characters from past games of the series, and Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem features a brief cameo of Gangrel being summoned, as well as characters who are spiritual successors to past characters. Roy or a successor to his bloodline (Elbert, Eliwood, Roy) is very likely to be featured at least once in these games.

How was relevancy used for other returning veterans?

• Mewtwo was out of the Pokemon spotlight for a long time, until it received two mega evolutions, a movie, and an appearance in X&Y, which helped justify its inclusion as a DLC character.
• While the later games in the Dr. Mario series aren't talked about much, it still features titles on the DS, Wii, and Wii U.
• Lucas, however, isn't on the same level of relevancy of Roy and Mewtwo, but still managed to return. Does Roy really have to be on such a high pedestal to return?

"Roy isn't unique. We don't need another Marth. Vote for someone unique, like Hector or Ephraim."

• While Roy isn't seen as unique by a fair amount of Smash fans, with his clone properties in Melee and simply wielding a sword, he has much more significance than other Fire Emblem characters. Hector himself is simply the third wheel in his own game, having an even lesser role than Lyndis, who becomes much less of a main character after Chapter 10 and would have to be removed from Assist Trophy status to become a fighter. Eliwood, the game's main character, is a very minor NPC until a third into his game. Roy is the clear-cut leader and main character of FE6 from the get-go, and remains so until the very end of his story, surpassing the achievements of Elibe's previous lords, which are covered later under "Why do people even like Roy?" He is more suited to lead Elibe's representation than its other lords. With Ephraim, Magvel isn't a significant continent to the series, only sporting one game while not having nearly as much to show for with the series as a whole as Elibe. Ephraim himself doesn't show up until a third into his story, and his route later is simply optional. Magvel itself isn't important enough to reasonably be prioritized over Elibe, and Ephraim isn't a significant enough character to be compared to the likes of Roy. NOTE: While Roy is justifed more here than other Fire Emblem protagonists, this isn't meant to discourage people from voting for them. If you want Lyndis, Sigurd, Chrom, Eliwood, or Ephraim, etc. in the game, vote for them and present their strengths.
• Roy is a sword wielder, but the Sword of Seals has many unique properties. It can create and ignite flame projectiles, it can heal Roy, it deals multiplied damage to dragons, it can seal away beings in ice, and it's considered the strongest legendary weapon in Elibe. Roy himself is very acrobatic, and his fighting styles via fencing with rapiers, and his Sword of Seals are unlike anything we've see from the other swordfighters in Super Smash Bros. He definitely has potential to be very unique, if the redesign route is taken.
• Smash's Fire Emblem side has a fairly abundant amount of blue hair, within 3/4 of its fighters, and Chrom's assisting role in a Final Smash doesn't help. Roy's return, along with Robin's playability and Lyndis's role as Assist Trophy, would prove that Fire Emblem isn't simply blue-haired protagonists. Pretty ironic, considering that even Robin has blue hair in a palette swap.
• Here is a collection of statistics on Roy's popularity, including a poll comparing his popularity to other Fire Emblem characters for requests for a Smash fighter: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...y-for-dlc-new-op.324203/page-25#post-15647046
• Due to Roy's novelty of being a veteran, he would sell well for those who at least enjoyed him in Melee. That cannot be said for the more "unique" characters in Fire Emblem.

"We all know Sakurai wouldn't redesign him"

• Which is what the Fighter Ballot is for. Mention that you'd like to see Roy return, but only if his moveset receives a redesign that truly brings out the strengths of his gameplay fundamentals, source material, and character. The ballot: https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/
• If you don't want to use your vote on Roy, nintendo@noa.com will forward feedback to the higher-ups. You're not limited to a 500 character limit, so have at it!
• Dr. Mario is often brought up. Dr. Mario is literally Mario in a labcoat, a redesign would be sooooo out of character for him.
• A common misconception is that Mewtwo wasn't changed from Melee, when his full moveset features many changed and repurposed moves and animations, for balancing purposes and to bring more life out of the character. Mewtwo himself wasn't a clone character, so he didn't need these changes, yet he received them for balance purposes. Since Roy was always near Mewtwo on the tier lists in Melee, Roy is also likely to receive the same treatment.
• For rebalancing purposes, not only did Mewtwo receive a fair amount of changes, but Bowser and Yoshi did as well.
• Many of Pit's changes as a Brawl veteran involved him becoming more faithful to his source material and his newest game. The same happening for Roy isn't unlikely.
• Falco and Ganondorf were clones on the same level of Roy in Melee. Throughout the years, they've lost their clone properties and have become more unique with each installment, to the point where very few consider them clones. Since Roy was planned to appear in Brawl, the plans and vision for him would likely resurface here.
• With Lucas, he already had a unique moveset compared to Ness, sharing very little. Even then, he's still in development, and not many of Mewtwo's changes were featured in his trailer, so Lucas is likely to become a lot more than what we've seen in his trailer.

For those who don't mind Roy returning as a clone:

• Mention via ballot or email that you're indifferent to or that you want Roy to remain a clone. Nobody should be ashamed for liking clone characters or wanting a character to return as a clone, and not everyone who wants Roy for DLC wants a redesign, so speak from the heart about it.

"Lucina plays just like Roy"

• Lucina plays nothing like Roy. Lucina has a balanced blade playstyle, where she is neither rewarded nor penalized for which part of the blade she hits with. Roy, like Marth, has a sweetspot and sourspot within his blade, with the sweetspot dealing more damage and the sourspot dealing less damage. His sweetspot is closer to the hilt of the blade, while his sourspot is the tip, similar to Marth's hitboxes on Falchion in reverse. Roy also has different frames that moves come out on and stay active, different hitboxes, different trajectory on almost all of his moves, and a decent amount of multi-hitting moves due to his flame properties. Lucina shares far too many properties with Marth to ever be a suitable Roy replacement, she's more of her own deal.

Roy's niche as a fighter:

• Those who like Marth's tipper playstyle can use Marth, and those who dislike his tipper playstyle but enjoy his moveset can use Lucina. Meanwhile, those who prefer a more up-close and personal swordsman focused more on rushdown than Marth and Lucina could use Roy. While Shulk deals more damage near the base of the Monado, his sweetspots aren't nearly as extreme or noticable as Roy's. It takes a keen eye to even notice Shulk's sweetspots. Plus, Shulk doesn't fit Roy's style even with similar sweetspots, due to Shulk's massive zoning potential and Monado Arts.
• Roy would likely be an in-between of Marth/Lucina's swift movement and attacks, and Ike's slower movement and powerful attacks. He may also be an in-between of not just them, but Robin, due to the magical properties of the Sword of Seals, bringing together a unique playstyle from the elements of other Fire Emblem characters, no fire or elemental spell puns intended.
• Roy could be the game's only glass cannon swordsman, as well as bringing more to the table as a glass cannon. The game's true glass cannons are Captain Falcon, Fox, and Mewtwo. Captain Falcon and Fox both benefit from and suffer fast falling speed, which makes them easy to combo and set up kills on. However, it also makes their aerials much more fierce, due to being able to act more quickly after them. Mewtwo is large, meaning he's easy to hit, and light, meaning he's easy to kill, but he has many recovery options, powerful attacks, and long range in his attacks, making him efficient for a skillful and evasive player. All three of them have strong punish games, which makes them stand out most as glass cannons. Roy himself has fast falling speed, which made him easy to combo and set up kills on, but his aerials were very potent. Roy also has to keep pressure on his opponents with his close sweetspot, putting himself at risk, which is a unique trait nobody on the roster possesses. Please, Sakurai. Please, please, please DON'T make Roy's sourspot as weak as it was in Melee. Due to its very low hitstun, a player could be immediately punished for landing a tipped hit. If Roy's sourspot were as weak as Marth's sourspot, where a tipped hit from Roy would deal less damage but still knock a foe far enough away and deal enough hitstun to keep Roy safe for hitting them, it would be a very fine way to balance out Roy, since his sweetspot obviously wouldn't be as strong as Marth's tipper. Roy's tip being much weaker than it should have been restricted Roy as a fighter and the player, and it punished players for landing hits.
• The red flame to Ike's blue flame. Seriously, that would be dope.

Is Roy in the same boat as Chrom?

• http://mynintendonews.com/2014/07/1...ros-says-he-lacks-any-unique-characteristics/
• “At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike."
• Why are Marth and Ike exempt? Because they are veterans. Roy himself is a veteran just as much as Ike, so this quote bodes well for him. Not only that, but when Roy's unique properties were mentioned under "'Roy isn't unique. We don't need another Marth. Vote for someone unique, like Hector or Ephraim'" earlier on this page, many unique qualities about Roy were listed. Besides, even if this quote was bad for Roy, Sakurai says a lot of things. That is all.

"Roy was just an advertisement for his game. He had his turn. No reason for him to return."

• Lucas, Ike, Captain Falcon, and Ness say hi. The Ice Climbers would also be waving, if it weren't for those darned 3DS limitations. Maybe someday...
• Roy's significance and why he's a prime choice for representation were also covered under "Roy's importance to Fire Emblem" and "What Roy would bring for Sm4sh and Fire Emblem." He may have been nothing but a poster boy back in 2001, but he's much more now.

Is Roy well-liked, and do people like his game?

• Yes, Roy is very well-liked, and so is his game.
• From both Smash Bros. and Fire Emblem fans, Roy is well-liked. Multiple sources within one: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...y-for-dlc-new-op.324203/page-25#post-15647046
• Here is a list of many supporters for Roy on Smashboards, as well as the Smashboards support thread:http://smashboards.com/threads/the-last-melee-musketeer-roy-for-dlc-new-op.324203/
• Here is a Facebook group of over 400 people who support Roy's return: https://www.facebook.com/groups/405593832915234/
• Onto Roy's game: It reviewed well in Japan, its only country of official release, managing to even be a grade higher than the critically-acclaimed Awakening, which is the best-selling game in the series:
  http://gba-mk2.com/srpg/fire.html (Roy's game) andhttp://ndsmk2.net/3ds/title.php?title=233 (Awakening)
• -Roy's game also sold exceptionally well, only being outsold by Genealogy of the Holy War after both games have aged a bit, and this was during the Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, and Shadow Dragon era. Most notably, Roy's game managed this feat while only being officially released in Japan. Source:
  http://chartget.com/2008/08/media-create-sales-0811-0817.html

Potential Issues Regarding Roy's Return: How they aren’t truly issues:

Alternate Costume:

• Some fans see obstacles where Roy would need to be an alternate costume, which would simply not work. If a fighter at least has one trait that differentiates them from another character, their poor soul is freed from being an alternate costume. While Lucina is a direct clone of Marth, she was given different blade mechanics as a bonus. Roy himself is even more unique compared to Marth than Lucina, and he already possesses a moveset in Melee, so he could not work as an alternate costume. Plus, Roy as an alternate costume on any of the Fire Emblem characters wouldn't make any sense. Lucina impersonates Marth and shares his fighting style in canon, while Roy never crosses time or setting with Marth, Ike, Lucina, or Robin while he's alive.

The Roy Koopaling:

• While they do share the name Roy, it's very easy to differentiate between them. A human swordsman, and a turtle with (rad) sunglasses in a clown car are near impossible to mistake. This is a game where 8 players can all pick and play Mario, too. If it comes down to it, Roy (Fire Emblem) should carry the Roy name, while the koopalings all receive "Koopa" at the end of their names to make them easier to not only differentiate with Roy, but also with common human names. Really, though, it shouldn't be an issue if both are simply named "Roy"
• "Roy is already in Smash" jokes show that many people remember Roy, and have taught at least a few people who our boy is. If anything, they help Roy's chances of inclusion.

Source: http://tecchen.tumblr.com/

Clone vs. New Moveset:

• Honestly, it's an issue with different sides. Many people want Roy decloned, or don't want him back because he's a clone, and many people want Roy back as a clone, or only want to play him as a clone. There is no pleasing everyone. Everyone who wants Roy in one shape or another should speak from the heart about it.
• If you want Roy decloned or for Roy to gain a new moveset, the fighter ballot at https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/allows you to voice your feedback. If you don't want to use your vote on Roy, email nintendo@noa.com.
• If you want Roy to return as the same deal, the fighter ballot at https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/ allows you to voice your feedback. If you don't want to use your vote on Roy, email nintendo@noa.com.
• If you're indifferent on Roy being a clone or not, it simply gives you more of the 500 character limit on the ballot to use, or more focus on the email to talk about why you want Roy in, and why he deserves to be in.

His colors are already represented in a palette swap:

• Mario/Wario and Pit/Dark Pit are in the same boat. Mario has a Wario palette, and Pit and Dark Pit both have palette swaps that reference each other. The best part is, Roy could potentially bring a Marth palette, so the two could run around in each other's colors, making for very entertaining shenanigans, especially in teams.

Lucina is already in the game:

• With Marth's tipper, Roy's close-range preference, and Lucina's balanced blade, they would all have their own playstyles and roles. However, Roy has potential to be so much more than a clone of Marth, which is only possible if we continue throwing in fighter ballot and email support for Roy requesting for his unique properties via source material to be drawn from.

With all that said, Roy has a lot of potential as a fighter if he returns as DLC for the newest Super Smash Bros. To support Roy's return, please support Roy here!

Why do people even like Roy?

• For the Super Smash Bros. side, Roy’s unique playstyle appealed to many, despite being a clone character. While he’s always been a mid or low tier character on the tier lists, that doesn’t mean he’s completely absent in competitive play, and many players love him in casual play. Statistics linked earlier via "Roy isn't unique. We don't need another Marth. Vote for someone unique, like Hector or Ephraim" contain data on how well-liked Roy is by Smash fans.
• In Fire Emblem, Roy has unique traits that make him shine as a character. In the Fire Emblem Wikia, athttp://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Roy, Roy by personality is described to be “an upstanding, thoughtful, and idealistic young man who repeatedly shows a desire to help and support others, shown in his interaction with Guinivere and his friend since youth, Lilina. While he would prefer to avoid blood-shed – a fact reflected in his interaction with Guinivere and his tactical efforts to conserve his soldiers – he maintains a strong resolve to see peace return to Elibe. Unlike most young protagonists, however, he is perceptive and cunning for his age – he tricks a traitorous Lycian vassal into exposing himself, deciphers that the bard Elphin is more than he seems (though he does not pursue the truth against Elphin's will), and often reacts calmly and tactically to disturbing news.” Fire Emblem fans love Roy for his gentle nature, his strong leadership traits, his love for human and dragonkind, and his wisdom at such a young age.
• Throughout Roy’s story, he gathers the support of soldiers and representatives from Elibe’s smallest provinces, standing up to not only the largest nation in the world, but their control over dragonkind in order to bring justice to the world.
• As a spoiler warning, the rest of this section will go into the end of Roy’s tale, starting with Roy’s ending, if he is unpaired by the end of the game. Interestingly enough, he still receives this ending in the manga, Hasha no Tsurugi, despite being married. “Roy returned home to rebuild the lands in Lycia that were trampled on during the war. Although both Etruria and Bern offered him high-ranking positions in their courts, he never accepted any of them. Still, people always seemed to like him, and he left behind many legends during the course of his life.” This ending further shows Roy’s love for mankind and his will to improve it. He remains well-liked, and continues to create legends, even after saving the world.
• When confronting Zephiel, Roy and Zephiel’s ideals clash. Roy’s final reply is “You have lost faith in humanity and in yourself. I believe in mankind, and I know that your lunacy must be stopped!” This is where Roy's love for humankind shines the brightest before one of the most epic battles in the series.

• Before the final confrontation of The Binding Blade, Roy knows and declares his final role in the war. “Now is the time of truth! I have the blade of Hartmut, who took pity on you and spared your life! Everyone, leave the final blow to me!!” Another epic battle ensues, as Roy finishes the final battle of his story. In the best possible ending of The Binding Blade, where Roy deals the final blow to the dark dragon, he saves the final boss, allowing her a life of happiness after freeing her from her fate. This essentially makes Roy not only one to surpass his father and comrades, but Hartmut as well, Elibe’s greatest historical hero. His love for mankind and his vision of humankind and dragonkind living peacefully shows most here. Afterwards, he goes into a life of helping others rebuild after the war, and leaves great accomplishments, as quoted earlier through his Young Lion ending.

Source:

http://www1.oekakibbs.com/bbs/poo_themefan/131700/log_131600.html



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[lightdasher]

Whoa you didn't have to quote the entire page, I've read it.

Unless you want my opinion on some things on it?

 

[Ura]

I think even in my days as a casual Smasher, having 2 full clones of one character would irritate me.

Heck, back in 2008 when I knew nothing about the topic of clones, I thought Lucas was almost the same as Ness which bothered me a bit. Having 3 characters do the same thing would have bothered me a lot back then.

I'm not speaking on behalf of every casual fan but that would be the POV from the me of the past. With a good portion of fans not liking full clones (and sometimes even semi-clones), it's a safe bet to say that Sakurai wouldn't worry to much about alienating fans. Heck, I was a big fan of Melee Ganondorf's moveset but it wasn't the end of the world for me when he got changed up (though I do think his running animation looks silly).

 

[Lord Eliwood]

Whoa you didn't have to quote the entire page, I've read it.

Unless you want my opinion on some things on it?

I'm not the site owner, so I couldnt do anything with the feedback

No offense to you, but I find what you say to be typically nonsensical and easy to disregard as trolling, while its much easier to respect what the site says with it having actual passion, reasoning, and value in what it says

 

[Wintropy]

Before this gets any more heated, I'd just like to say that we don't know that Roy will be decloned, nor do we have any solid evidence to suggest that he will be, but we don't have any real evidence to the contrary either. At best, we have circumstantial anecdotes that do not necessarily present an absolute transcendent paradigm.

The important thing is that it's Roy. Even ported directly from Melee, he'd still play sufficiently differently from other characters to stand out on his own merits.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Before this gets any more heated, I'd just like to say that we don't know that Roy will be decloned, nor do we have any solid evidence to suggest that he will be, but we don't have any real evidence to the contrary either. At best, we have circumstantial anecdotes that do not necessarily present an absolute transcendent paradigm.

The important thing is that it's Roy. Even ported directly from Melee, he'd still play sufficiently differently from other characters to stand out on his own merits.

Indeed.

Even if he's directly ported over from Melee, he's a semi clone at worst since Flare Blade is now different.

 

[lightdasher]

The important thing is that it's Roy. Even ported directly from Melee, he'd still play sufficiently differently from other characters to stand out on his own merits.

Well obviously characters get slight number and hitbox changes, otherwise Kirby would still have that crazy utilt hitbox.

Mewtwo is the same as he was in Melee, just with a Smash 4 coat.
What is Mewtwos B in melee? Shadow ball, what is it in 4? Shadow ball, same move, different numbers, hitbox is probably a little different.

Obviously if Roy got in, he would just have a splash of Smash 4 coated over him, if you think just because X characters move does this much damage and comes out this much faster compared to older games makes it a new moveset then I think you have the wrong idea on what makes a new moveset. If Roy got in Smash 4 and he actually has a hitbox on his dash attack, that does not mean Roy has a new moveset.

 

[Wintropy]

Indeed.

Even if he's directly ported over from Melee, he's a semi clone at worst since Flare Blade is now different.

Fire also makes a pretty substantial difference. It's one of the things that people tend to overlook when comparing Mario and Doc or Cap and Ganondorf.

Well obviously characters get slight number and hitbox changes, otherwise Kirby would still have that crazy utilt hitbox.

Mewtwo is the same as he was in Melee, just with a Smash 4 coat.
What is Mewtwos B in melee? Shadow ball, what is it in 4? Shadow ball, same move, different numbers.

Obviously if Roy got in, he would just have a splash of Smash 4 coated over him, if you think just because X characters move does this much damage and comes out this much faster compared to older games makes it a new moveset then I think you have the wrong idea on what makes a new moveset. If Roy got in Smash 4 and he actually has a hitbox on his dash attack, that does not mean Roy has a new moveset.

Huh? I never suggested that. I have no idea where you interpreted that notion.

I said that, even directly ported from Melee, Roy would function differently because he'd retain his own distinct neutral-b, speed, weight and damages differences and would have a fire effect on his moves. No doubt he'd have a different Final Smash as well, even if it's just a clone of Ike's or Cap's. In no way did I insinuate that he would have a new moveset, just that he would still be distinct from Marth and Lucina.

 

[lightdasher]

Fire also makes a pretty substantial difference. It's one of the things that people tend to overlook when comparing Mario and Doc or Cap and Ganondorf.

What difference does fire do besides add a weird flamey effect on things? Unless you're playing Brawl and burn Ivysaur I don't see any difference.

 

[Wintropy]

What difference does fire do besides add a weird flamey effect on things? Unless you're playing Brawl and burn Ivysaur I don't see any difference.

It triggers explosive items and has other subtle effects, such as fueling Chandelure in Smash Run and (in some cases) leaving a trail of embers.

I didn't say it was a technically massive difference, but it is substantial.

EDIT: And what Swampie said.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

"Toxic"? You?

Oh boy, I have seen worse. Much, much worse. Still, I don't know the full story what went on years ago, but why would people exclude you? You're talking about here right? Because I hate to see any Roy fan & supporter excluded from this community (okay, maybe if the person has a very ****ty and toxic attitude, but I haven't came across people like that too often and they got infractions for other things). We all came together because of one common goal and worked our ***** off year after year supporting Roy. I would like to celebrate with everyone if we do get Roy, but also still keep in touch with them.

If you still want to talk about things, you can always shoot me a PM (since you said you want to drop things, sorry).

I sent an apology message on the whole Robin situation. I tend to have a whole different person/personality when I'm reminded of stuff (having trouble fitting in with new Awakening and Robin/Chrom/Lucina fans on Facebook pages from a few years ago, now FE: If pages on Facebook, being treated worse on serenesforest and /feg/ when I used to be treated better, being mocked for liking Roy, and being snapped on a few random times by good friends) from a certain era and I dragged undeserving people into it a pity party at the wrong time and place. A few years after most of that... yeah. I seem to only have these kinds of issues with FE and really nothing else in life, despite a lot of other stuff being less than stellar and some of it being worse that I never get down in the dumps about. I treated Robin fans worse than detractors treat Roy fans and it's something I should know better on. It's a mental block I need to beat.

I dug too deep into my worries about Roy making it, and exaggerated them. They still exist to an extent, but I like it here and I'm preparing too much for a worst case scenario that might not happen. Thank you. You can still pm me if there's anything you're still curious on or want to talk about.

In other words, avoiding the whole mess going on with Roy's moveset like the plague, we're so close to page 100 of discussion.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What difference does fire do besides add a weird flamey effect on things? Unless you're playing Brawl and burn Ivysaur I don't see any difference.

Hitbox.
Trajectory.
Occasionally multiple hits.

 

[lightdasher]

It triggers explosive items and has other subtle effects, such as fueling Chandelure in Smash Run and (in some cases) leaving a trail of embers.

I didn't say it was a technically massive difference, but it is substantial.

Oddly enough Mewtwos attacks do the same thing yet it's not even fire. (fighting a chandelure in Smash run as Mewtwo is painful literally only tilts, bair and uair work on it)

Hitbox.
Trajectory.
Occasionally multiple hits.

One would think that's down to the move and not the fact that it's fire itself.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oddly enough Mewtwos attacks do the same thing yet it's not even fire. (fighting a chandelure in Smash run as Mewtwo is painful literally only tilts, bair and uair work on it)

One would think that's down to the move and not the fact that it's fire itself.

Nair should work.

As well as Confusion, Disable and throws.