The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

[Boo Jr.]

I'm currently playing Awakening, I can't wait to recruit our boy.

By the way, add me to the supporter list, how many are we anyway?

 

[Croph]

I'm currently playing Awakening, I can't wait to recruit our boy.

By the way, add me to the supporter list, how many are we anyway?

Oops, I thought I've already added you. I'll get on that!

And we're currently at 42 supporters... O.o

Anyway, hitting 50 would be a nice milestone. Half of 100!

 

[Quillion]

About Roy being most popular in FE6: Could it be because of: 1: Smash Bros (which was released after Sword of Seals), and 2: the fact that EVERYONE ELSE is bland as all hell?

Most people I've seen keep endlessly criticizing FE6 for having very little characterization even compared to the Jugdral games (which came previously). And if you read this page, you'll find that a lot of the characters are pretty much expies of previous characters from the Archanea games.

 

[ChronoBound]

About Roy being most popular in FE6: Could it be because of: 1: Smash Bros (which was released after Sword of Seals), and 2: the fact that EVERYONE ELSE is bland as all hell?

Most people I've seen keep endlessly criticizing FE6 for having very little characterization even compared to the Jugdral games (which came previously). And if you read this page, you'll find that a lot of the characters are pretty much expies of previous characters from the Archanea games.

Oh goodie, we have not had a Roy basher in here for a while so let's get going.

Most people I've seen keep endlessly criticizing FE6 for having very little characterization even compared to the Jugdral games (which came previously
]

Going to need a citation on that "most people". As it stands in Japan, its among the most well-received installments to the series (I hope Croph included those links in the OP I dug up a while back).

I wrote the most detailed review on FE5 at GameFAQs (and its personally one of my favorite FE's, just look at my avatar), but FE5 (which is part of the Jugdral saga) at least took a step back in terms of characterization. There are many characters who literally have no lines aside from the chapters in which they join you, and some whom there only lines are their join/retreat/death quotes. The support systems was a step forward for Fire Emblem in terms of characterization. FE4 was a lot stronger character wise, but personally I found it had rather repetitive gameplay (all the maps were pretty similar to one another and it was all seize the throne, without the map design diversity that FE6 had).

As for characters continuing arche-types from Akaneia, there is a good deal of those yeah. In general, FE6 was basically what FE13 was, an effort to revitalize the FE fanbase. FE5 was by the worst selling installment in the series up to that point (FE9 did end up selling as poorly as FE5 did in Japan though, and FE10 only marginally better), and FE4 was close to six years old by the time FE6 was released. FE6's throwbacks to FE3 and FE4 (and FE2 as well), were them trying to appeal to the traditional FE casual fanbase (FE5 by comparison was an installment whose appeal was mostly limited to the FE hardcore).

Indeed this was intentional, FE6's instruction booklet has a retrospective page talking about each each installment in the Fire Emblem series up until that point. The commercial for FE6 is also a throwback of FE1's commercial. FE6 was basically a culmination of all the previous FE's released up until that point. While there were many characters with similarities to Akaneia ones there were plenty of different ones as well, but keep in mind this was intentional, as IS's goal was trying to restore the FE fanbase after the poor performance of FE5 and long wait since the last successful FE (which was in 1996).

FE6 also introduced various FE staples to the mix. Namely the modern support system, a harder difficulty, multiplayer, trial maps, and the often overlooked unit formation (being able to pick which units go where is incredibly invaluable, I'm looking at you final chapter of FE5).

However, in general though, since you bothered to say "FE6 sucks" as a possible reason to not bring back Roy, it really is a poor reason. ROB's two games and Ice Climber are considered considered subpar games. However, that is beside the point, I can easily dig up a lot of mean comments regarding Awakening (indeed there are many that thing the map design was a massive step down from most modern FE titles, and the animu and/or anservice elements had no place in FE), but if I were to use that a reason to cut Robin and/or Lucina I would be dogpiled.

The fact is that FE6 was well-received and well regarded, but even if it wasn't, it means little for whether or not Roy should return.

 

[Diddy Kong]

FE6 is the 'base' for all the Western released Fire Emblem games. It took a huge step from the rest of the series. One cannot say the game was not important to the series. It was the series' grand revival.

I don't get the Roy bashing based on FE6. Lucina's inclusion is the only thing one really could use as a base to say Roy's chances are bad.

 

[Boo Jr.]

Lucina's inclusion is the only thing one really could use as a base to say Roy's chances are bad.

Well, Lucina is supposed to be Roy in spirit. The fact is, Lucina was meant to be a Marth's alternate costume, but due to time running out (and the "uniquiness" of the character) she has been promoted to an actual character.

Since the moveset is basically a copypaste from Marth, and the model was almost done, it make sense. And Marth gained the Roy's palette as the missing costume.
This is my theory, but I think it makes sense. But on the bright side, maybe some of the Roy model/moveset/effects and so on is already done, making him a good choice for an added bonus character a la Mewtwo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Roy was planned for Brawl at least, like Dixie Kong. So it's quite possible that indeed there is leftover data from both characters. However, that is just speculating. We know only for a fact that Ice Climbers have leftover moveset data due to Sakurai stating 'they worked perfectly on the Wii U version'. Dixie nor Roy would ever have as much data as them. But there might be something. Then again, Roy might face fierce competition from Chrom: as he definitely already has a full HD 3D model and was definitely considered before.

With all the quotes of Sakurai around after each Smash game's release talking about characters that 'couldn't make it due time contraints' or him talking about more characters that couldn't make it in, am just hoping DLC will solve that for now. Who knows, Villager for example might have been created out of leftover data from Brawl.

Anyway, we know that Sakurai wanted to include more characters. And DLC might finaply give us all these 'unfinished' characters. Time will tell if Roy is going to be one of them. If Wolf returns first, I can definitely see Roy make it back to. After all, I think could work just as well as or

 

[Boo Jr.]

Chrom is too similar to Ike, and was "just another generic swordman". Roy on the other hand is just a Marth clone, so in order to bring something new to the table should be reworked a bit to declone him a little, like Falco (wich is now pretty different from Fox), or Luigi.

His sword, as already stated in the topic, could be the thing. If I'm not mistaken, Roy had a ranged fire attack in his game, so he could reworked to make him more appealing from a simple Marth clone with some fire attack.

 

[Quillion]

About Roy being most popular in FE6: Could it be because of: 1: Smash Bros (which was released after Sword of Seals), and 2: the fact that EVERYONE ELSE is bland as all hell?

Most people I've seen keep endlessly criticizing FE6 for having very little characterization even compared to the Jugdral games (which came previously). And if you read this page, you'll find that a lot of the characters are pretty much expies of previous characters from the Archanea games.

Oh goodie, we have not had a Roy basher in here for a while so let's get going.



Going to need a citation on that "most people". As it stands in Japan, its among the most well-received installments to the series (I hope Croph included those links in the OP I dug up a while back).

I wrote the most detailed review on FE5 at GameFAQs (and its personally one of my favorite FE's, just look at my avatar), but FE5 (which is part of the Jugdral saga) at least took a step back in terms of characterization. There are many characters who literally have no lines aside from the chapters in which they join you, and some whom there only lines are their join/retreat/death quotes. The support systems was a step forward for Fire Emblem in terms of characterization. FE4 was a lot stronger character wise, but personally I found it had rather repetitive gameplay (all the maps were pretty similar to one another and it was all seize the throne, without the map design diversity that FE6 had).

As for characters continuing arche-types from Akaneia, there is a good deal of those yeah. In general, FE6 was basically what FE13 was, an effort to revitalize the FE fanbase. FE5 was by the worst selling installment in the series up to that point (FE9 did end up selling as poorly as FE5 did in Japan though, and FE10 only marginally better), and FE4 was close to six years old by the time FE6 was released. FE6's throwbacks to FE3 and FE4 (and FE2 as well), were them trying to appeal to the traditional FE casual fanbase (FE5 by comparison was an installment whose appeal was mostly limited to the FE hardcore).

Indeed this was intentional, FE6's instruction booklet has a retrospective page talking about each each installment in the Fire Emblem series up until that point. The commercial for FE6 is also a throwback of FE1's commercial. FE6 was basically a culmination of all the previous FE's released up until that point. While there were many characters with similarities to Akaneia ones there were plenty of different ones as well, but keep in mind this was intentional, as IS's goal was trying to restore the FE fanbase after the poor performance of FE5 and long wait since the last successful FE (which was in 1996).

FE6 also introduced various FE staples to the mix. Namely the modern support system, a harder difficulty, multiplayer, trial maps, and the often overlooked unit formation (being able to pick which units go where is incredibly invaluable, I'm looking at you final chapter of FE5).

However, in general though, since you bothered to say "FE6 sucks" as a possible reason to not bring back Roy, it really is a poor reason. ROB's two games and Ice Climber are considered considered subpar games. However, that is beside the point, I can easily dig up a lot of mean comments regarding Awakening (indeed there are many that thing the map design was a massive step down from most modern FE titles, and the animu and/or anservice elements had no place in FE), but if I were to use that a reason to cut Robin and/or Lucina I would be dogpiled.

The fact is that FE6 was well-received and well regarded, but even if it wasn't, it means little for whether or not Roy should return.

I've never played FE6, but I still keep browsing around the Fire Emblem fandom just to find at least ONE PERSON who likes Roy for being in Fire Emblem rather than Smash. Thus far, I have not succeeded.

Also, you pretty much confirmed to me that FE4 has excellent characterization. Tedious gameplay is irrelevant here.

At least Lucina is incredibly well-loved by her fandom, even if she's easily replaceable with another Marth clone or even a completely developed character by the time another Fire Emblem rolls around. It's the same deal with Mewtwo (against the tier whores who hated him).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I've never played FE6, but I still keep browsing around the Fire Emblem fandom just to find at least ONE PERSON who likes Roy for being in Fire Emblem rather than Smash. Thus far, I have not succeeded.

Well, here you have stated your own problem: go play FE6.

And it's not like Marth is extremely popular cause of Shadow Dragon or anything. If anything, that game did worse than FE6. So with that in mind, where do you think gets his popularity from? (For the record, I like because of FE12)

 

[Quillion]

Well, here you have stated your own problem: go play FE6.

And it's not like Marth is extremely popular cause of Shadow Dragon or anything. If anything, that game did worse than FE6. So with that in mind, where do you think gets his popularity from? (For the record, I like because of FE12)

Marth is:

A: The first Lord of the series and the standard-setter for all later ones.

B: Most popular Lord in Japan for the above reason, not because he was a great character in a crossover fighting game.

I see you are unaware that Marth starred in the first game in the series. It's not like he was selected to be put in Melee because he would get two remakes of his games more than a decade later.

 

[Boo Jr.]

About Roy being most popular in FE6: Could it be because of: 1: Smash Bros (which was released after Sword of Seals),

I'm pretty sure Sword of Seals was released AFTER Smash Bros Melee. Also, I don't get your point about Lucina being incredibly well-loved by her fandom. Whats the point?
Does Lucas supporters actually hate him, and want him back just to pounch him in game? Of course every character, Roy and Lucina included, is well-loved by their respective fandom...

Also, how do you criticize a character without even playing his game? Isn't that a bit...pointless?

And, by the way, your endless quest for finding someone in Fire Emble fandom who likes Roy for being in Fire Emblem rather than Smash is finally over: that's me. I liked the boy in smash, my interest sparked for FE titles and I played Fire Emblem Rekka No ken, since I liked the gameplay and the storytelling I looked for the sequel (that was actually FE6, storywise). I had to play it with the fan translated version, but I doubt it was much different from the actual script of the original, and in the end I can easily say that Roy is my favourite lord in the series.

 

[Quillion]

I'm pretty sure Sword of Seals was released AFTER Smash Bros Melee. Also, I don't get your point about Lucina being incredibly well-loved by her fandom.

Oh, right. Didn't mean to type that.

Of course every character, Roy and Lucina included, is well-loved by their respective fandom...

Also, how do you criticize a character without even playing his game? Isn't that a bit...pointless?

I'm not criticizing Roy personally; I'm criticizing him in terms of the fandom not liking him. I was actually surprised that no one in the Fire Emblem fandom seemed to like Roy despite his presence in Smash. Then it turns out the reason why is because he's a Marth clone in terms of personality.

 

[Croph]

What's the problem if a lot of people like Roy thanks to Smash? It does not discredit him at all -- popularity is popularity, no matter where it's from. There's other characters in Smash who are in a similar boat.

But yes, Roy ranked #1 in popularity in the FE6 Japanese poll. If you read/translated some of the comments (and what people emailed in the FE6 Q&A), some of them mention his character in Melee, but some also mention how they like him for who he is in FE6 (so like, explaining they like his positive traits, relationship with Lilina, etc.). There's people on both sides.

@ ChronoBound I don't know if I have what you dug up in terms of FE6's reviews. Actually, it would be really helpful if you could find what you posted. I do have this review, which was posted here.

 

[Roy-Kun]

I'm not criticizing Roy personally; I'm criticizing him in terms of the fandom not liking him. I was actually surprised that no one in the Fire Emblem fandom seemed to like Roy despite his presence in Smash. Then it turns out the reason why is because he's a Marth clone in terms of personality.

Don't mix words here. Take into consideration that the Japanese Fandom does not think the same as the Western Fandom.

That goes for every game in general, not only Fire Emblem. Remember, Little Mac was hailed as an excellent addition to Smash 4... in the West. But Japan couldn't care any less. Japan loves FE6, they love all the FEs, but they clearly like FE6 a lot, too.

Gotta take into consideration the values dissonance here.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Marth is:

A: The first Lord of the series and the standard-setter for all later ones.

B: Most popular Lord in Japan for the above reason, not because he was a great character in a crossover fighting game.

I see you are unaware that Marth starred in the first game in the series. It's not like he was selected to be put in Melee because he would get two remakes of his games more than a decade later.

Where did I ever say those things? I know Marth is extremely popular in Japan. Guess what? So is Roy. Marth's popularity mostly sterms from FE3 however. That game never made it outside of Japan. Marth only got Shadow Dragon in the West, and it's extremely apperant that his popularity in the West does NOT come from Shadow Dragon.

So I just don't really get your problem.

 

[Croph]

I'm like almost halfway through Shadow Dragon (I should really get back to that game.. ah ha), so I can't really comment on Marth's character, but seeing Roy in FE6... are they really clones in terms of character? I could do a whoooole character analysis of Roy (for whatever little personality he has), so I'm sure there's enough differences out there.

 

[Quillion]

Where did I ever say those things? I know Marth is extremely popular in Japan. Guess what? So is Roy. Marth's popularity mostly sterms from FE3 however. That game never made it outside of Japan. Marth only got Shadow Dragon in the West, and it's extremely apperant that his popularity in the West does NOT come from Shadow Dragon.

So I just don't really get your problem.

That's because Marth's popularity stems from the Smash tier wh***s who love the fact that he's a Fragile Speedster, but with a strong hitbox at the tip of the Falchion. Not from any of his games.

 

[Croph]

I don't really understand what's the problem anymore.

Ok, so Roy and Marth's popularity (at least in the West) stems from Smash?... So?

At least Intelligent Systems and Nintendo of America are kind of aware of this, at least I know for the case of Roy.

An interesting thing to note, is that [in Awakening] the DLC episodes featuring Ike vs Roy and their armies is called "Xenologue: Smash Brethren", an obvious reference to the Smash Bros. series. The episode's name is different in the Japanese version though.

A lot of responses in the Japanese FE6 Q&A also mention's Roy appearance in Melee and how they love using him.

And there's a few other examples.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Dealing with Lucina and Roy, I really don't see Lucina as Roy in spirit. Being a main of both, they both play completely different from each other.

 

[Boo Jr.]

Dealing with Lucina and Roy, I really don't see Lucina as Roy in spirit. Being a main of both, they both play completely different from each other.

Don't tell me, but thats how is supposed to be...

 

[Autumn ♫]

Don't tell me, but thats how is supposed to be...

I don't think Sakurai ever really meant for her to be a successor to Roy. They may have mostly the same moves (due to being a clone of Marth) but how you use them are both completely different. Roy has both "teh phire" and is opposite of Marth in terms of sweet and sour spot, while Lucina doesn't have to have quite as much control over spacing as Marth and Roy do, due to not having to worry about sweet and sour spots of the Falcion.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Don't tell me, but thats how is supposed to be...

I'm pretty sure it went like this

Sakurai just finished up with the brand new Lucina costume for Marth, horrah!

so for his break he sits down and plays Fire Emblem Awakening

a worker saw something spark in his eye

he closed his 3DS (copyrighttonindtendo) and returned to his development square, reworking everything for Lucina to be a clone character

and thats how clones are made :3

 

[Boo Jr.]

My theory on what happened is a bit different:

Marth was supposed to have a single Lucina alt costume, while Roy was supposed to be the unlockable character. The 2 play a bit different due to the different sourspot and Roy's fire attacks, but remember that even if the two character look similar, they actually require different coding/testing/effects and so on (on top of different 3d models, of course).

So the crew started by creating Marth, and then Lucina model to actually have the "Marth slot" completed.
Then time was about to running out, and since Lucina is a well know character with some difference from Marth, she has been "promoted" to a separate character. All they had to do for her was just copypaste Marth moveset, remove the tipper and increase attack's range to offset that, even the final smash is literally a copypaste.
Considering that, on top of already having a 3D model of the girl already done, that was probabily what happened.

In the end, they ended by having a free Marth costume slot, wich became the Roy's palette. All of this is my personal theory on what happened, but there are some hints that can enforce this.

The first clue are Marth and Lucina Alt. trophies. Is it just me, or they seems rather...unispired? All other Alt. trophy look awesome, but Marth and Lucina ones...my guess is there wasn't supposed to exist at all, because Lucina standard trophy was actually the Marth alt., like male and female Robin.
The second clue are Lucina palettes and Roy's palette. All other alternate color in game are well done, with good lightling, shadow and color balance overall, a job well done. Roy palette is bad...just really bad, and Lucina's are just the color set of other Awakening character (like Tharja or Anna) literally splatted all over her, without anycolor harmony or anything.
The last thing is, as I already stated, that after Lucina gained her own character slot, she was supposed to be the "easy to use" Marth. But if she is the easier version of another character...why is she an hidden character? You have to unlock her both in 3DS and Wii U version, whats the point of having the beginner Marth as a not starting character? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Again, this is my personal theory, but now that I think about it Dark Pit character actually enforce it. My wild guess is that, aside from all other character cutted out, Roy and another unlockable character was supposed to be in the game (probabily Wolf), but since they were running out of time they "promoted" Lucina and Dark Pit to their own character slot. As stated from Sakurai, cloned character take very few time to make, and considering that Lucina and Dark Pit are literally copypaste from other character (Dark Pit final smash is the same as the Zelda one), and since the 3d models were pretty much already done, they choose that option to ship the game in time.

 

[Croph]

Minna... miteite kure...

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Just a question -

Minna... miteite kure...

Someone give them all some new Down Specials, not to mention it really made me feel sorry for poor Marth... By the way - in a technical aspect, Peach was the first character with a counter, using Toad as her Neutral Special (But it still doesn't explain why she sounds like a helicopter for her second jump...)

Anyways, New Nintendo direct tomorrow. (It'll be at 1o'clock in Australia on the 15th for me, so I'll check in the next morning after.) Any chance we'll see something related to Fire Emblem in it?

 

[Croph]

Anyways, New Nintendo direct tomorrow. (It'll be at 1o'clock in Australia on the 15th for me, so I'll check in the next morning after.) Any chance we'll see something related to Fire Emblem in it?

NoA has stated that there's going to be focus on Spring releases, which worries me that we won't hear SMT x FE news (and I have a feeling it's still too early), but you never know. I'm keeping my eyes opened.

Also, FE's 25th anniversary falls on April 20th, which is in the Spring quarter as well. So, I guess there's a chance they could announce an anniversary special, but we'll have to see. Either way, I'm hyped!

 

[Deathlightning21]

NoA has stated that there's going to be focus on Spring releases, which worries me that we won't hear SMT x FE news (and I have a feeling it's still too early), but you never know. I'm keeping my eyes opened.

Also, FE's 25th anniversary falls on April 20th, which is in the Spring quarter as well. So, I guess there's a chance they could announce an anniversary special, but we'll have to see. Either way, I'm hyped!

I'm hoping we get some kind of news on Fire Emblem. remakes and the like are my number 1 hope right now

 

[Chris_Skorniak]

If Roy makes it as DLC which I hope to god he does, I hope he plays like he does in Project M. I love PM Roy and Sethlon is proof that Roy is an amazing character and isn't "just a clone" anymore.

 

[Masonry the Brick Lord]

I'm so glad Sethlon did backroom work to bring Roy to fruition, he's been doing really well with Roy for the last year and a half in PM. I'm excited that I'll see him put in even more work in 2015's Project M tournaments!

 

[Croph]

IT'S HAPPENING!! NEW WAIFU FIRE EMBLEM CONFIRMED!!

Here we go again...

I'll just dump everything FE that happened in the direct

Seems like the title is Fire Emblem if, at least in Japanese:

Continuing, the FE cast Amiibos will work with Code Name: S.T.E.A.M, and you'll have whatever character you tapped help you in battle.

Let's not kid ourselves, the best part of the direct was obviously seeing Marth's special move:

And Marth speaks English in S.T.E.A.M... Took him long enough!

Also, Nintendo Japan tweeted that there's going to be a FE card game released sometime in the summer this year.

year of Fire Emblem when!?

So, maybe we'll see some Roy cards (and Elibe representation in general)? I know I'm going to collect every card either way!

 

[Steelia]

I'm not criticizing Roy personally; I'm criticizing him in terms of the fandom not liking him. I was actually surprised that no one in the Fire Emblem fandom seemed to like Roy despite his presence in Smash.

By that logic, do you use this same kind of thinking towards Shulk fans? I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I like Shulk how he was in Smash, and I haven't even played his game!"... Likewise, I also heard countless times how Shulk was one of the blandest characters in his respective game, but Smash garnered him a much bigger following.

I liked Roy mostly because of his cool VA and fire techniques in Melee, but didn't actually respect/enjoy the character wholly until after reading the manga he premiered in, and playing his game for myself. Maybe by FE standards he's not very exciting or something? I enjoyed the character I played in Sword of Seals -- he's a kid with a heart of gold. Pretty oblivious to romantic advances, and sometimes it takes him a while to figure out the true political agendas of his foes (this I found the most amusing about him), but he's extremely loyal and a great tactician for his age.

 

[Deathlightning21]

IT'S HAPPENING!! NEW WAIFU FIRE EMBLEM CONFIRMED!!

Here we go again...

I'll just dump everything FE that happened in the direct

Seems like the title is Fire Emblem if, at least in Japanese:

Continuing, the FE cast Amiibos will work with Code Name: S.T.E.A.M, and you'll have whatever character you tapped help you in battle.

Let's not kid ourselves, the best part of the direct was obviously seeing Marth's special move:

And Marth speaks English in S.T.E.A.M... Took him long enough!

Also, Nintendo Japan tweeted that there's going to be a FE card game released sometime in the summer this year.

year of Fire Emblem when!?

So, maybe we'll see some Roy cards (and Elibe representation in general)? I know I'm going to collect every card either way!

My...fan...boner....too...ssttrroonnnggggg *kabooooooooooom*

 

[Swamp Sensei]

...

I just realized....

This has a remix of Winning Road (Roy's Hope) in it...

Coincidence?

Maybe.

 

[Croph]

Hmm, I personally think it's a coincidence, but it's still nice to hear it. But I do wonder why they chose that song in particular.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Hmm, I personally think it's a coincidence, but it's still nice to hear it. But I do wonder why they chose that song in particular.

At what time does Roy's Hope play? Personally, I can hear the main theme of FE. Anyways, Fire Emblem 14 is just amazing...

And now, time to go see if I can secure some amiibo of Robin and Lucina before it's too late! Or better yet...

 

[Croph]

At what time does Roy's Hope play? Personally, I can hear the main theme of FE.

It seems to start at the 48 sec mark. Sounds like Roy's Hope, no?

I really would love the full song now haha. Pretty awesome remix!

 

[Wintropy]

At the risk of stirring the pot (and I promise I'm not doing it deliberately this time), I have a suggestion that I would like your collective opinions on.

I was discussing it with my brother recently, and the reasons for Roy's omission came up. We both agreed that it's not because of relevancy (otherwise characters like Sheik and Captain Falcon wouldn't still be around) and it's not because of supposed fan reception to the character (as previously stated, characters like Marth and Shulk were widely unknown before Smash). We disagreed on why he hasn't come back, though, and the only real reason we can think of is "there's no real need for him."

I made the case that Ike already does the "fiery sword" thing, which as a huge part of Roy's character, and he made the case that Lucina is arguably a spiritual successor to Roy. I argued that Lucina isn't intended as such, but rather, that Roy was never really considered in the first place, ergo Lucina couldn't consciously replace him. This raised something of an issue for us, as we could only really imagine that the reason why Roy has yet to return is because there's a mentality amongst the developers and the fanbase that he's "just another Marth clone who happens to have a fiery sword".

Agree or disagree with this rationale, we suggested an alternative, hoping to please everybody. Now this is only a hypothetical scenario, and I'm wondering if it would be at all feasible from a logistical standpoint, and also if it would please the Roy fanbase at all or just be seen as a token apology.

What if there was a new character - we'll use Chrom as the example since he's the most recent Lord, and in this scenario, he was never outright rejected - that fights with a new kind of swordplay. His stats are a bit slower and stronger than Marth, but also a bit faster and speedier than Ike. He uses moves based on his in-game skills and other Fire Emblem elements, such as critical hits and amalgamating moves from various different classes, to give him a unique flair that no other swordfighter in the series has.

That being said, Chrom is merely the poster boy for my suggestion; the vessel, if you will, for something else entirely.

Chrom, like Bowser Jr, is merely the default option for all of the major Lords. You can choose between Chrom, Alm, Seliph, Leif, Roy, Eliwood, Eirika and Lucina, all with their own voice packs and character models. Their Final Smash summons all eight lords together for a decisive blow to finish off the opponent. These Lords are just suggestions, they could be other Lords if people thought that would be better.

I think this would hypothetically appease a lot of people, since it would allow Roy to return to the roster whilst giving him a new moveset and distinguish him entirely from being a Marth clone. It would, ironically, also make Lucina an alt as originally intended, though still more unique than she is in the roster as it stands.

On the other hand, I'm concerned that this would be seen as an insult to Roy, demoting him to "just another alt for Chrom" and ignoring what makes him unique to the other Lords, and may possibly alienate fans who prefer how he plays as a Marth clone in the first place.

This is just a suggestion, of course, and I'm wondering if it's a good idea at all or if it's trying too hard to appeal to people and instead just chastising them even further. Feedback would be appreciated as I'm genuinely curious as to how people would take this.

 

[Croph]

@ Wintropy Nah, you gave legitimate reasons why Sakurai may have not chosen Roy. So I don't think you're stirring things up. Of course, we don't know the specific reasons why Roy wasn't added, only that there were many other characters Sakurai wanted to add, but couldn't in the end. We don't know who they are. Maybe Roy's one of them, maybe not. All we could do is speculate.

As for your idea, it's interesting. With Bowser Jr. having the Koopalings as alts, you have to wonder if another similar fighter may be added in the future (and by "similar" I mean one fighter who has different alts in which the alts are also different characters). In the case of Fire Emblem, every Lord is unique in their own way (it's not like they could all use a Clown Car). Smash, however, is non-canon, so in the end it shouldn't be that strange if the idea were to be played out. Like you said though, it will alienate Roy fans who likes how he plays in Melee, and there is the whole argument of "Roy has so much more potential". However, characters like Ganon and Falco are still clone-ish, but others like Pit and Bowser got some noticeable changes. Sakurai kinda confuses me in the "gotta watch out for alienating the players!" regard. It will also raise some eyebrows since clones like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit are their own character, yet Lucina isn't. This could be avoid if Dr. Mario and D.Pit are alts as well, however, it's too late to have them as costumes now, gotta wait until what's going to happen next Smash. And judging on Sakurai's views and past comments about this topic, I'm not sure if we're likely to see those characters as costumes. Unless if we get a new director next Smash, but we'll have to wait until then.

I cannot say I will be 100% happy with this suggestion, though. Sure, in the end we still get Roy, so I'm glad in that regard. However, I think Roy has too much potential to be demoted to a costume, which is why I've always wanted him to return either revamped or luigified (like Ganon, or maybe more unique like Wolf/Lucas). I'm curious to see if Mewtwo will have major tweaks done to him. If he gets new Specials, for example, this may give me hope that other potential DLC vets (which includes Roy) might receive the same changes. Anyway, an idea like that isn't out of the question (how many people thought Bowser Jr., if he got in, would have the Koopalings as costumes?), but everyone will have different preferences and answers. You can't please everyone in the end either way haha.

What do you think is the right solution? I kinda like the suggestion, however, I'd personally avoid including Roy (and to a lesser extent Lucina, but we'll have to see the fate of the clone trio. What if they want to give them unique moves? Who knows).

 

[Chris_Skorniak]

@ Wintropy Nah, you gave legitimate reasons why Sakurai may have not chosen Roy. So I don't think you're stirring things up. Of course, we don't know the specific reasons why Roy wasn't added, only that there were many other characters Sakurai wanted to add, but couldn't in the end. We don't know who they are. Maybe Roy's one of them, maybe not. All we could do is speculate.

As for your idea, it's interesting. With Bowser Jr. having the Koopalings as alts, you have to wonder if another similar fighter may be added in the future (and by "similar" I mean one fighter who has different alts in which the alts are also different characters). In the case of Fire Emblem, every Lord is unique in their own way (it's not like they could all use a Clown Car). Smash, however, is non-canon, so in the end it shouldn't be that strange if the idea were to be played out. Like you said though, it will alienate Roy fans who likes how he plays in Melee, and there is the whole argument of "Roy has so much more potential". However, characters like Ganon and Falco are still clone-ish, but others like Pit and Bowser got some noticeable changes. Sakurai kinda confuses me in the "gotta watch out for alienating the players!" regard. It will also raise some eyebrows since clones like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit are their own character, yet Lucina isn't. This could be avoid if Dr. Mario and D.Pit are alts as well, however, it's too late to have them as costumes now, gotta wait until what's going to happen next Smash. And judging on Sakurai's views and past comments about this topic, I'm not sure if we're likely to see those characters as costumes. Unless if we get a new director next Smash, but we'll have to wait until then.

I cannot say I will be 100% happy with this suggestion, though. Sure, in the end we still get Roy, so I'm glad in that regard. However, I think Roy has too much potential to be demoted to a costume, which is why I've always wanted him to return either revamped or luigified (like Ganon, or maybe more unique like Wolf/Lucas). I'm curious to see if Mewtwo will have major tweaks done to him. If he gets new Specials, for example, this may give me hope that other potential DLC vets (which includes Roy) might receive the same changes. Anyway, an idea like that isn't out of the question (how many people thought Bowser Jr., if he got in, would have the Koopalings as costumes?), but everyone will have different preferences and answers. You can't please everyone in the end either way haha.

What do you think is the right solution? I kinda like the suggestion, however, I'd personally avoid including Roy (and to a lesser extent Lucina, but we'll have to see the fate of the clone trio. What if they want to give them unique moves? Who knows).

I agree with your statement of Roy as too much potential to be just a costume. In my previous post i mentioned what they did to Roy in Project M. Look how non-Marf he is. I hope that if he is a future DLC he retains some of his PM glory and some new tweaks too. But i personally want his PM Roy for smash 4 but i know that since the way smash 4 works its impossible.