The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

[Pokelego999]

With this, we've officially reached 3,000 posts. Whatever happens with Fighter #11, let no one say we didn't care.

On that note, there's something I don't think we've actually talked about yet. Or at least, not for a long while:

Where would Zacian and/or Zamazenta be placed on the mural?

If it was up to me, I'd put them on the far left and right, either at rest or reared up on their hind legs like in a typical heraldic coat-of-arms. When presented as a static image, they'd be framed around the other fighters as if protecting them. When the mural is animated, though--like on Ultimate's official website--it'd reveal that they're actually right next to each other.

I'd put Zacian to the left of Corrin in the middle of jumping, and Zamazenta would be to Chrom's right, also in the middle of jumping. Basically similar to you in that they would actually be right next to each other.

 

[zacian]

With this, we've officially reached 3,000 posts. Whatever happens with Fighter #11, let no one say we didn't care.

On that note, there's something I don't think we've actually talked about yet. Or at least, not for a long while:

Where would Zacian and/or Zamazenta be placed on the mural?

If it was up to me, I'd put them on the far left and right, either at rest or reared up on their hind legs like in a typical heraldic coat-of-arms. When presented as a static image, they'd be framed around the other fighters as if protecting them. When the mural is animated, though--like on Ultimate's official website--it'd reveal that they're actually right next to each other.

I think they should be next to Wolf cause y’know,

their wolves

 

[fogbadge]

perhaps they should cover up mewtwo and incineroar

 

[Cosmic77]

As long as they don't cram Zacian and/or Zamazenta in front of Wario like they've done with literally half of the Pokémon characters so far, I'm fine with wherever.

 

[zacian]

Tune in 9/23 at 3 p.m. PT for a #NintendoDirect livestream featuring roughly 40 minutes of information focused mainly on #NintendoSwitch games launching this winter. pic.twitter.com/feHBEKfHPG

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 22, 2021

Oh jeez direct tomorrow

 

[fogbadge]

I do hope we get some more regional variations

 

[Delzethin]

Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is it...potentially. By tomorrow night, we might know Ultimate's final DLC character. We may be just one of many support groups, but damn if it hasn't been a wild and stressful experience.

Here's hoping fortune finally comes through for us.


On that note, how about another thing we haven't really talked about? How would you design a Classic Mode route for Zacian and/or Zamazenta?

Personally, I'd make the whole thing a series of 1v1 stamina matches against giant-sized opponents (maybe even double giant, like when you pick up a Super Mushroom in a match where everyone starts out giant). The enemies themselves would all be other Pokémon and bestial characters that could serve as counterparts. Call it The Darkest Day, and you have something unique and thematically fitting.

Boss at the end would be Ganon, since adding Eternatus as a new boss is out of the question. Both are ancient malevolent entities who break free of their imprisonment and must be sealed away again by heroes of legend.

 

[Cosmic77]

Not nearly as impressive as something that references the darkest day, but I could see their route end up with a theme as basic as characters who fight with swords/shields. Seems boring enough to be real, just like Pyra and Mythra's theme was clones and alter egos.

From a slightly more creative angle, they could do something more unorthodox and make a route out of "fairy" and "fighting" characters. Mix in magical characters with brawlers (Jigglypuff/Ryu, Zelda/Captain Falcon, etc.)

 

[fogbadge]

Not nearly as impressive as something that references the darkest day, but I could see their route end up with a theme as basic as characters who fight with swords/shields. Seems boring enough to be real, just like Pyra and Mythra's theme was clones and alter egos.

From a slightly more creative angle, they could do something more unorthodox and make a route out of "fairy" and "fighting" characters. Mix in magical characters with brawlers (Jigglypuff/Ryu, Zelda/Captain Falcon, etc.)

well that wont work weve got one fairy

 

[Cosmic77]

Smaller but still relevant news — Zacian and Zamazenta will be getting another Holo card in the Celebrations set.

 

[fogbadge]

Smaller but still relevant news — Zacian and Zamazenta will be getting another Holo card in the Celebrations set.

View attachment 331296

those cosmog and cosmoem ones look great

 

[Delzethin]

One hour to go. Fingers crossed, everyone.

While we wait, here's a piece of trivia I haven't seen anyone notice before:

Ever paid attention to how Zacian holds her sword? Always straight out, with the pommel facing left and the blade held to the right. This is remarkably consistent--only exception is her ingame sprite, and that was so the sword would fit in the limited space.

Now, imagine yourself picking up a sword--or any other object of similar shape--and try to replicate holding it out in this pose with your hands. Notice what you have to do in order for it to work and still have full control over it? Or specifically, which hand you have to hold it with?

Zacian is a lefty. A southpaw, if you will.

 

[Starlight Liger]

Zacian and Zamazenta would best represent Pokémon Sword and Shield and it would align with a Pokémon rep' celebrating the 25th Anniversary of the franchise.

 

[Cosmic77]

Got roughly 20 minutes until the Direct. We may not even get anything related to Smash today, but just in case, thanks for sticking around. Zacian and Zamazenta are two Pokémon who I truly believe could do both Smash and Gen 8 justice. The odds aren't exactly in our favor, and even if the final character is indeed a Pokémon, there's plenty of other options outside these two who are competing for the final spot. Still, it's been fun regardless. I've genuinely enjoyed visiting this thread in the past year and a half and looking for all the cues and possible leads to either of these dogs getting announced.

To simplify everything, it's been a blast. I hope you enjoyed the ride, and I'd love for your admiration for Zacian and Zamazenta to remain regardless of who F11 is.

 

[zacian]

Tune-in on 10/5 at 7am PT for the reveal presentation of the final Super #SmashBrosUltimate DLC fighter with Director Masahiro Sakurai. The fighter’s release date and final Mii Fighter costumes will also be revealed!

Watch here:https://t.co/wLVCdxTgtT pic.twitter.com/wCAZw2kmLZ

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 23, 2021

You have to wait two more weeks before the end

 

[LukeRNG]

Of all the days it could've been, it had to be on my birthday.

I hope the fan flamewars aren't too harsh for whomever the last character is.

 

[Cosmic77]

I was expecting the last character to be revealed in a Sakurai Presents. Thought it'd be a little anticlimactic to reveal the character and then have us wait a few days or a week or so before Sakurai gave his final words.

Oh well. Guess at least now we know for sure when the ride comes to an end. Seems like we have about a week and half left to enjoy the luxury of blind speculation.

 

[fogbadge]

well theres a couple trailers out for the upcoming games. now the one for the remakes show HMs in use, what they left out in trailer but was on the website is that we summon wild pokemon to use them for us

 

[zacian]

Serebii Picture: Special artwork of the Arc Phone, an item obtained early in Pokémon Legends: Arceus that will guide players on their journey https://t.co/NWlAdn57aQ pic.twitter.com/wV8uyJp7s0

— Serebii.net (@SerebiiNet) September 28, 2021

I wanna know about the jesus phone

 

[Delzethin]

Less than a week to go. The air is so think with tension you could practically cut it with a sword.

We've dodged one last bullet before the presentation, though: One more tournament event.

【トーナメントイベント】
10/1(金)から3日間、「翼を持つものたち」を開催！ 翼を持つファイターだけが出場できるトーナメントです。 勝ち進むほど、豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/G0tFKzp2L1

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) September 29, 2021

A battle between fighters with wings is one more thing we wouldn't have qualified for (the wing-like armor pieces on Zacian's shoulders are just decorative, while this is about characters with functional wings). Which means we've gone all this way without a tournament themed around swords or shields.

While it's not a sure thing, there's a chance they've been saving such a premise for the tournament featuring Fighter #11. Who knows, right?

 

[zacian]

Happy anniversary to GOTCHA I get to repost this image now

 

[Delzethin]

Meanwhile, the special treatment in-series just keeps coming.

New Zacian and Zamazenta V Cards Revealed pic.twitter.com/aKBOJwFEsu

— Pokémon-Switch Stock (@switchstock) October 1, 2021

Two more unique cards, this time V class, depicting Zacian and Zamazenta's shiny variants...

Special Deck Set
November 5th | 5,500 JPY pic.twitter.com/RWsiapzzIP

— Pokémon-Switch Stock (@switchstock) October 1, 2021

...and a promo set built around them.

pic.twitter.com/qo7e81fiu1

— Pokémon-Switch Stock (@switchstock) October 1, 2021

Look at all of that merch.

While it isn't some "tease" or anything, it's further proof of just how prominent these two have been even by Legendary standards. More reason to think they'd have been on the short list if Sakurai/Nintendo/all parties involved did want someone from Sword & Shield for Fighter #11.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'd say Cinderace is the safe choice for a Gen 8 Pokemon but the game has had a couple of quadrupedal fighters before so I wouldn't count it out as impossible.

Plus think about it, Zacian is a current Gen Pokemon, has blue fur, is from a Japanese series and is a Sword-Fighter. It's almost like the perfect storm...

 

[fogbadge]

I'd say Cinderace is the safe choice for a Gen 8 Pokemon but the game has had a couple of quadrupedal fighters before so I wouldn't count it out as impossible.

Plus think about it, Zacian is a current Gen Pokemon, has blue fur, is from a Japanese series and is a Sword-Fighter. It's almost like the perfect storm...

all shes missing is the man thing

 

[Guybrush20X6]

all shes missing is the man thing

Well if Lucina counts towards generating ire then I'd say all's fair play.

 

[fogbadge]

Well if Lucina counts towards generating ire then I'd say all's fair play.

good point

 

[LukeRNG]

Even with everything that's been said, I'm currently 50-50 on whether it's 1st or 3rd party.
It literally feels like anything is fair game.

And it's crazy to think that this'll be the end of character speculation.

 

[Cosmic77]

From a promotional standpoint, Cinderace makes the most sense by far. The gap in promotion between itself and the other two starters is so high that I struggle to see Sakurai feeling comfortable with Inteleon or Rillaboom unless he saw something special in them. At the same time, Cinderace is awfully basic. Aside from having hot feet and excelling in kicking, Cinderace doesn't offer nearly as many options as Greninja and Incineroar (especially the former since it can summon multiple weapons by shaping the water it creates). That mixed with Incineroar being added in the same game, would Sakurai feel satisfied with Cinderace?

There's a few other Pokémon worth keeping an eye on — Toxtricity, Urshifu, and Dragapult to name a few. It's just that the promotion for many of Gen 8's Pokémon has been pretty mediocre so far thanks to the direction of the anime and the timing of the 25th anniversary. Makes it difficult to predict what would stand out to Sakurai.

 

[fogbadge]

It literally feels like anything is fair game.

finally somebody gets it





ps where did you find your avatar?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

From a promotional standpoint, Cinderace makes the most sense by far. The gap in promotion between itself and the other two starters is so high that I struggle to see Sakurai feeling comfortable with Inteleon or Rillaboom unless he saw something special in them. At the same time, Cinderace is awfully basic. Aside from having hot feet and excelling in kicking, Cinderace doesn't offer nearly as many options as Greninja and Incineroar (especially the former since it can summon multiple weapons by shaping the water it creates). That mixed with Incineroar being added in the same game, would Sakurai feel satisfied with Cinderace?

There's a few other Pokémon worth keeping an eye on — Toxtricity, Urshifu, and Dragapult to name a few. It's just that the promotion for many of Gen 8's Pokémon has been pretty mediocre so far thanks to the direction of the anime and the timing of the 25th anniversary. Makes it difficult to predict what would stand out to Sakurai.

Reminder that Decidueye was also seriously considered so promotion isn’t everything. The biggest reason was chosen was because of the wrestler motif he brought.

 

[fogbadge]

Reminder that Decidueye was also seriously considered so promotion isn’t everything. The biggest reason was chosen was because of the wrestler motif he brought.

thats the only reason

 

[Cosmic77]

Reminder that Decidueye was also seriously considered so promotion isn’t everything. The biggest reason was chosen was because of the wrestler motif he brought.

Actually, Decidueye never had the promotion that most people claimed he had. He was added in Pokken, but that was probably a decision made by the development team, not a suggestion/request from TPC. Aside from that and a few minor roles in the anime... that was pretty much it at the time. Most of the special focus was on Rowlet and Rowlet alone. The moveset is what drew people to Decidueye, not because it was given special treatment.

We'll never know for sure, but I don't think it was a coincidence that Sakurai ultimately chose Incineroar. It was clearly the writer's pet in the anime compared to the other two starters, seeing how it had an emotional build-up leading to Ash capturing it. Then it went on to have a rivalry with an Incineroar after evolving into a Torracat. There's also the movie that commemorated the 20th anniversary; Incineroar was one of three Gen 7 Pokemon included in the film. The other two were Midnight Lycanroc and Marshadow. Sakurai takes heavy inspiration from the anime when he makes Pokémon characters, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Litten/Torracat/Incineroar love is what helped him reach a decision.

Maybe we'll see Decidueye become TPC's obvious favorite in the future if Arceus is a sign of things to come. For 2016-2018 though? I was never convinced promotion was one of its strong suits.

 

[Delzethin]

From a promotional standpoint, Cinderace makes the most sense by far. The gap in promotion between itself and the other two starters is so high that I struggle to see Sakurai feeling comfortable with Inteleon or Rillaboom unless he saw something special in them. At the same time, Cinderace is awfully basic. Aside from having hot feet and excelling in kicking, Cinderace doesn't offer nearly as many options as Greninja and Incineroar (especially the former since it can summon multiple weapons by shaping the water it creates). That mixed with Incineroar being added in the same game, would Sakurai feel satisfied with Cinderace?

There's a few other Pokémon worth keeping an eye on — Toxtricity, Urshifu, and Dragapult to name a few. It's just that the promotion for many of Gen 8's Pokémon has been pretty mediocre so far thanks to the direction of the anime and the timing of the 25th anniversary. Makes it difficult to predict what would stand out to Sakurai.

That's the thing, while Cinderace is arguably the favorite, it isn't by as much as people seem to assume. This isn't as clear-cut as picking the biggest "shillmon" of the generation and calling it a day--just worked out that way for Greninja because there were also unique abilities available and Squirtle's departure meant the waterbender niche was wide open. Not only are there concerns that Cinderace might not be as unique compared to other options, we just had an example in the base game where the most promoted 'mon didn't get picked! Decidueye was turned down despite Rowlet being super prominent, and Dusk Lycanroc, Ash's team ace for Alola, didn't make it either (though I still think that was a timing thing).

Then you have the Smash community gravitating toward other 'mons for reasons that get iffy under scrutiny. Toxtricity got popular outside the Pokémon fandom, but it's actually not very prominent within Gen 8 (hasn't appeared in the anime at all so far--not even Toxel has) and its two forms have mutually exclusive moves that'd throw a wrench in setting them up as costumes. Urshifu's chances died as Isle of Armor left the spotlight, the multi-form stance concept so often thrown around doesn't actually fit because the line canonincally can't swap forms (their whole thing is picking one fighting style and specializing in it), and we just got a bulky martial artist as Fighter #10.

Meanwhile, we're over here with all the prominence and moveset potential necessary, unique upsides as big body quadruped weapon users with metalbending and fairy/aura powers, and the thematic angle of being the first box legendaries in Smash...and not getting any credit or acknowledgement outside rare exceptions. Frustrating, isn't it?

 

[Cosmic77]

Sakurai shared a small hint about the final character.

Masahiro Sakurai: "Even if you don't play Smash Bros, and are just interested in gaming, I'd like to invite you to watch the broadcast. You may not know the new fighter, or it might be different from your personal expectations. BUT, we hope you enjoy this game show and the broadcast itself! I really enjoyed recording the broadcast."

So it seems like we were right about the last character not being someone HUGE. That being said, Sakurai said it was a character that we might not know about. This makes me question whether or not he'd say something like that for a Pokémon, considering how massive the franchise is. I'm leaning toward either a very niche third-party or a promotional first-party.

 

[fogbadge]

Sakurai shared a small hint about the final character.

Masahiro Sakurai: "Even if you don't play Smash Bros, and are just interested in gaming, I'd like to invite you to watch the broadcast. You may not know the new fighter, or it might be different from your personal expectations. BUT, we hope you enjoy this game show and the broadcast itself! I really enjoyed recording the broadcast."

So it seems like we were right about the last character not being someone HUGE. That being said, Sakurai said it was a character that we might not know about. This makes me question whether or not he'd say something like that for a Pokémon, considering how massive the franchise is. I'm leaning toward either a very niche third-party or a promotional first-party.

well thats been my thinking all along. minus the word promotional

 

[Cosmic77]

Wanted to share one last piece of merch I got before tomorrow. Was fairly difficult to find.

 

[LukeRNG]

Sakurai shared a small hint about the final character.

Masahiro Sakurai: "Even if you don't play Smash Bros, and are just interested in gaming, I'd like to invite you to watch the broadcast. You may not know the new fighter, or it might be different from your personal expectations. BUT, we hope you enjoy this game show and the broadcast itself! I really enjoyed recording the broadcast."

So it seems like we were right about the last character not being someone HUGE. That being said, Sakurai said it was a character that we might not know about. This makes me question whether or not he'd say something like that for a Pokémon, considering how massive the franchise is. I'm leaning toward either a very niche third-party or a promotional first-party.

To be fair there's still people who don't know about the big characters that are the most speculated. Many people went "Who?" for characters like Sephiroth & Banjo, which I'd say were big characters.

 

[zacian]

Wanted to share one last piece of merch I got before tomorrow. Was fairly difficult to find.

View attachment 333131

Omg exodia

 

[Cosmic77]

To be fair there's still people who don't know about the big characters that are the most speculated. Many people went "Who?" for characters like Sephiroth & Banjo, which I'd say were big characters.

I think could end up being a very generic statement that Sakurai wanted us to remember, since this can technically be applied to any character.

Still, one thing's for sure, this statement feels awfully similar to what was said before Byleth got revealed. Is Sakurai trying to lower the high expectations?

 

[RandomAce]

Hello, it’s been a long time since I’ve been on smashboards.

As Smash Ultimate comes to a close, I want to say that it’s been a wild ride for this speculation cycle. I’ve talked to some of you guys for almost 4 years before Ultimate was even revealed, and its pretty cool to see it all come to a close.

I don’t really have any stakes for this last fighter, as I’m mostly sticking around for the ride at this point, but here’s hoping our big break comes at this last moment.