Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[YouReadMyName]

Hi Weegee boards! I'm a Ness main and recently picked up Luigi as a secondary! Much excite, but I'm having trouble with Luigis neutral. Other than fireballs, what other options do I have?

 

[hey_there]

Hi Weegee boards! I'm a Ness main and recently picked up Luigi as a secondary! Much excite, but I'm having trouble with Luigis neutral. Other than fireballs, what other options do I have?

Fireballs are really great, but fireball -> running grab gets very predictable, so here's a few other options:

- Power shielding. Very important to get good with powershielding as Luigi. Because of his bad traction, he can power shield an attack and still make some ground sliding towards an opponent, giving you opportunities to punish.
- SH dair is good. It autocancels and covers a good amount of space.
- SH fair is OK, but it is a bit of a commitment and you can be punished quickly if they shield.
- Cyclone is an OK approach, but easy to punish, so use it sparingly.
- Tomahawking is great for Luigi (Jumping in without attacking and grabbing right away).
- Out of shield nair is good. Everyone knows about Luigi's infamous nair, so keep it in mind as a decent option.
- Jabbing is great. It comes out very quickly and you can link it to a grab or, depending on the circumstances, slip in an fsmash or something else.
- SH bair can stuff aerial approaches, but it's not something to spam imo.
- Reverse usmash is really great. Great damage, sets up for a juggle, and Luigi's head is invincible during the active hitbox.
- Crawling. A lot of times you can just crawl under your opponent's attacks while retreating or approaching, effective dodging their move and giving yourself a frame advantage over shielding, not to mention you won't be pushed back like you do in shield. It takes a while to learn which moves you can duck under though, so don't be afraid to experiment on FG or something.
- Perfect pivoting is cool with Luigi since he gets really good distance with his PP, but it's not essential.
- B-reverse fireballs are great at resetting to neutral from disadvantage if you're being juggled. I actually see a lot of characters (Lucario and Robin most prominently) incorporate b-reversing into their metas, but I don't see Luigis do it much. Definitely underrated and something to keep in mind, as Luigi is quite floaty and easily juggled.

This is by no means definitive and someone else will probably jump in with stuff I missed. Of course, you'll see more opportunities for more options as you play and learn the character. Anyway, I hope my thoughts are helpful to you.

 

[YouReadMyName]

Fireballs are really great, but fireball -> running grab gets very predictable, so here's a few other options:

- Power shielding. Very important to get good with powershielding as Luigi. Because of his bad traction, he can power shield an attack and still make some ground sliding towards an opponent, giving you opportunities to punish.
- SH dair is good. It autocancels and covers a good amount of space.
- SH fair is OK, but it is a bit of a commitment and you can be punished quickly if they shield.
- Cyclone is an OK approach, but easy to punish, so use it sparingly.
- Tomahawking is great for Luigi (Jumping in without attacking and grabbing right away).
- Out of shield nair is good. Everyone knows about Luigi's infamous nair, so keep it in mind as a decent option.
- Jabbing is great.. It comes out very quickly and you can link it to a grab or, depending on the circumstances, slip in an fsmash or something else.
- SH bair can stuff aerial approaches, but it's not something to spam imo.
- Reverse usmash is really great. Great damage, sets up for a juggle, and Luigi's head is invincible during the active hitbox.
- Crawling. A lot of times you can just crawl under your opponent's attacks while retreating or approaching, effective dodging their move and giving yourself a frame advantage over shielding, not to mention you won't be pushed back like you do in shield. It takes a while to learn which moves you can duck under though, so don't be afraid to experiment on FG or something.
- Perfect pivoting is cool with Luigi since he gets really good distance with his PP, but it's not essential.
- B-reverse fireballs are great at resetting to neutral from disadvantage if you're being juggled. I actually see a lot of characters (Lucario and Robin most prominently) incorporate b-reversing into their metas, but I don't see Luigis do it much. Definitely underrated and something to keep in mind, as Luigi is quite floaty and easily juggled.

This is by no means definitive and someone else will probably jump in with stuff I missed. Of course, you'll see more opportunities for more options as you play and learn the character. Anyway, I hope my thoughts are helpful to you.

Thanks so much! Liked! So much more than I thought I'd get as an answer! I'll work on these ASAP.

 

[Yonder]

Patch downloading now for 3DS guys! Will edit this post with info. I tend to be a victim of the placebo effect though so I won't try to jump the gun on anything...

D throw and fireball untouched. Phew!

Testing numbers on damage comparing to the guide here :http://smashboards.com/threads/luigis-smash-4-guide-will-keep-updating.372225/ . I'm trusting the numbers here so apologies if they didn't change.

Changes: Full charged U Smash does 16%, 3% less from 19%

...

That's all I could really find. Nothing else was touched on Luigi. So...that's it here.

 

[TriTails]

Patch downloading now for 3DS guys! Will edit this post with info. I tend to be a victim of the placebo effect though so I won't try to jump the gun on anything...

D throw and fireball untouched. Phew!

Testing numbers on damage comparing to the guide here :http://smashboards.com/threads/luigis-smash-4-guide-will-keep-updating.372225/ . I'm trusting the numbers here so apologies if they didn't change.

Changes: Full charged U Smash does 16%, 3% less from 19%

You sure you didn't hit the sourspot?

U-smash: (1.0.4)
Sweetspot: 14% uncharged, 19% fully charged
Sourspot: 12% uncharged, 16% fully charged

 

[GamerGuy09]

Is it me, or is it harder to gain distance on his down-b when in the air?

 

[Yonder]

You sure you didn't hit the sourspot?

U-smash: (1.0.4)
Sweetspot: 14% uncharged, 19% fully charged
Sourspot: 12% uncharged, 16% fully charged

Not sure, all the other numbers were identical to before. There are no kill % charts set up so I don't know if he kills earlier/later on anything, but Luigi seems very untouched overall. And since Diddy got slammed with the nerf bat...

Is it me, or is it harder to gain distance on his down-b when in the air?

Placebo I think, seems fine to me. I actually thought it was easier at first. Untouched though I believe.

 

[TriTails]

There are no kill % charts

Except that there is!

My testings on 1.0.4:
Jab 3: 310% (326%, if combined with jab 1 and 2, not sure why)

DA (Final hit ONLY): 333%

F-tilt: 253% all angles

D-tilt: 387%

U-tilt: 183%

U-smash: 142% (Uncharged, sourspot)
121% (Uncharged, sweetspot)
99% (Fully charged, sourspot)
80% (Fully charged, sweetspot)

F-smash: Upwards: 98% (Uncharged), 63% (Fully charged)
Non-angled: 116% (Uncharged), 77% (Fully charged)
Downwards: 106% (Uncharged), 70% (Fully charged)

D-smash: 159% (Front)
119% (Back)
110% (Fully charged front)
82% (Fully charged back)

N-air: 165% (Sweet), 272% (Sour)

F-air: 248%

U-air: 211% (Sweet), 312% (Sour)

B-air: 140% (Clean), 238% (Late)

D-air: 227% (Sour), 'Depends on the opponent'% (Spike)

FJP: 70% grounded (Sorry, forgot to take the aerial one)

Green Missile: 362% (Uncharged, sourspot), 252% (Uncharged, sweetspot), 110% (Fully charged)

Luigi Cyclone (Final hit ONLY): 221%

- Testings done in 3DS, Final Destination, with Mario's position is the same position after he jumped out of revival platform
- Training mode, no rage was accounted
- For DA and Luigi Cyclone, I spaced it so the first hits does not link and only the final hit hits, same with jab 3.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Except that there is!

My testings on 1.0.4:
Jab 3: 310% (326%, if combined with jab 1 and 2, not sure why)
DA (Final hit ONLY): 333%
F-tilt: 253% all angles
D-tilt: 387%
U-tilt: 183%
U-smash: 142% (Uncharged, sourspot)
121% (Uncharged, sweetspot)
99% (Fully charged, sourspot)
80% (Fully charged, sweetspot)
F-smash: Upwards: 98% (Uncharged), 63% (Fully charged)
Non-angled: 116% (Uncharged), 77% (Fully charged)
Downwards: 106% (Uncharged), 70% (Fully charged)
D-smash: 159% (Front)
119% (Back)
110% (Fully charged front)
82% (Fully charged back)
N-air: 165% (Sweet), 272% (Sour)
F-air: 248%
U-air: 211% (Sweet), 312% (Sour)
B-air: 140% (Clean), 238% (Late)
D-air: 227% (Sour), 'Depends on the opponent'% (Spike)
FJP: 70% grounded (Sorry, forgot to take the aerial one)
Green Missile: 362% (Uncharged, sourspot), 252% (Uncharged, sweetspot), 110% (Fully charged)
Luigi Cyclone (Final hit ONLY): 221%

- Testings done in 3DS, Final Destination, with Mario's position is the same position after he jumped out of revival platform
- Training mode, no rage was accounted
- For DA and Luigi Cyclone, I spaced it so the first hits does not link and only the final hit hits, same with jab 3.

I'm assuming Mario is at the starting position when you killed him with these?

 

[TriTails]

I'm assuming Mario is at the starting position when you killed him with these?

No. I first KO'd him, and then he comes back at the revival platform, jumps off and land. THAT is where I tested him. The middle of the stage. I KO him to the right (I'm on the left side) if that helps.

Though, don't freak out if 1.0.6 numbers are 1 or 2% different from what I tested. The move's power is probably the same, because there are human errors...

Sorry, no msifire or aerial FJP. Forgot to test them.

Though, still haven't updated, but I can't play till Friday...

 

[hey_there]

Did Luigi's usmash always move him a step forwards?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah it did. I haven't played with him post-patch so I'm not sure if it's farther but he definitely always moved forward during his Usmash.

 

[hey_there]

OK so Luigi could usmash his way across a stage? Someone mentioned it to me as a change and I wasn't sure.

 

[Yonder]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/c..._bros_4_v106_patch_notes_compilation/.compact

According to this, Luigi only received a 1% fireball nerf...and then received a 1% fireball buff at the start. And received a [pointless imo] 1% buff to charged missile.

I'll take it! Since D throw was untouched, Luigi may rise in dominance even more along with Sheik.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

OK so Luigi could usmash his way across a stage? Someone mentioned it to me as a change and I wasn't sure.

Yeah he can. I do it all the time when practicing my Usmashes OoS.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/c..._bros_4_v106_patch_notes_compilation/.compact

According to this, Luigi only received a 1% fireball nerf...and then received a 1% fireball buff at the start. And received a [pointless imo] 1% buff to charged missile.

I'll take it! Since D throw was untouched, Luigi may rise in dominance even more along with Sheik.

It FELT like Fireballs moved a little faster now but it very well could be placebo

 

[Yonder]

Yeah he can. I do it all the time when practicing my Usmashes OoS.



It FELT like Fireballs moved a little faster now but it very well could be placebo

Lol last thing Luigi needs is faster fireballs. Someone said they had range increase too but probably the pacebo. There could be some hidden Luigi nerfs and buffs though, it took a while before we found the wealth of buffs in the last patch when we initally thought he just got a 1% increase in F smash damage.

 

[FalKoopa]

Looks like we escaped without much changes. And probably placebo on my part, but I think his traction has improved a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

Glad to hear that Luigi didn't receive any sort of major nerfs.
To be honest, I had trouble sleeping for the past few days. Not only was I hyped for Mewtwo, but I was scared of Luigi getting nerfed. Thank the heavens this didn't happen...

If there are buffs and nerfs, they will probably be negligible.

 

[Yonder]

To sum it up, I think we lost a % on fireball, that's it.

 

[mrconcon]

Anyone else feel like fairs range has been reduced? I remember being able to string 3 fairs out of dthrow on villager at 0%

Also it feels like there's less hit stun now when you down b gimp someone and they fall out underneath and can act faster and recover, like falcon.

Looks like weak nAir has more knock back

And I don't think reverse up air to bair combos anymore... :/


Can anyone help me confirm these? I'm at school and won't be able to test more until tomorrow...

 

[TriTails]

Can anyone help me confirm these? I'm at school and won't be able to test more until tomorrow...

Damage determines hitstun. If Cyclone's loop damage is still 1.5%, then the hitstun is still the same.

Feel your pain bruh. Can't play till Friday...

Anyhoo, has anyone noticed KB changes?

Imagine if we had Brawl F-smash back .

Sucks on the Fireball's damage nerfs though... Now it has less hitstun, which may render Fireball Lock unusable.

 

[hey_there]

Anyone else feel like fairs range has been reduced? I remember being able to string 3 fairs out of dthrow on villager at 0%

Also it feels like there's less hit stun now when you down b gimp someone and they fall out underneath and can act faster and recover, like falcon.

Looks like weak nAir has more knock back

And I don't think reverse up air to bair combos anymore... :/

Can anyone help me confirm these? I'm at school and won't be able to test more until tomorrow...

I've been getting reverse uair -> bair online today so it just be a placebo effect?

How were you getting 3 fairs on Villager? Were you doing SH fair -> fair -> DJ fair or SH fair -> fair -> land -> SH fair? Either way I was able to get those combos when I tested it in training mode.

I'm not sure about cyclone or nair though.

 

[Yonder]

Was fireball hitstun reduced? I know Tritails mentioned something about it, so that would suck, but be a reasonable nerf.

 

[TriTails]

Was fireball hitstun reduced? I know Tritails mentioned something about it, so that would suck, but be a reasonable nerf.

Less damage = Less hitstun.

In other words, the less damage that is inflicted on the opponent, the less hitstun is produced.

If we hit the 5% part, they would experience less hitstun than 6%
On the other hand, 7% part would make them experience more hitstun than 6%.

Fireball Lock is also known on how far Luigi can execute it. If the far away damage is reduced, I fear we must close in on opponents more (Not at just Fireball's max range) for the hitstun to suffice.

 

[Yonder]

Less damage = Less hitstun.

In other words, the less damage that is inflicted on the opponent, the less hitstun is produced.

If we hit the 5% part, they would experience less hitstun than 6%
On the other hand, 7% part would make them experience more hitstun than 6%.

Fireball Lock is also known on how far Luigi can execute it. If the far away damage is reduced, I fear we must close in on opponents more (Not at just Fireball's max range) for the hitstun to suffice.

Huh. More damage = more hitstun. The more you know. I feel like such a noob right now lol. Anyways, I suppose the Diddy matchup got even better now for us, cheers. Rosalina is probably our biggest top tier hurdle.

 

[Deleted member]

Even before the patch, I find that Rosalina was the toughest out of the group of Diddy Kong, Sheik, and Rosalina. She's just hard to close in on as Luigi and I can't easily get rid of that Luma.
Still, I'm glad for the Diddy nerfs. Hopefully Diddy mania will slowly die out. (though, Diddy wasn't really a major issue for me)

 

[AvoiD]

Any tips on how to mash in order to rise with cyclone without jumping? More focused on gimping/edgeguarding, running off stage, etc. Can't seem to get it out fast enough whenever I go offstage.

Also, are there certain characters the cyclone gimp work and doesn't work against? I'm guessing it's mainly people those rise from the bottom up (CF/Marth/Mac/etc).

 

[CAN-ACTION]

How do you guys fair off with ROB? I honestly have so many issues playing against ROB no matter how much I spot dodge, roll, shield. Such a nuisance and a nightmare all together.

 

[Saturn_]

I have a sneaking suspicion that I jab-combo waaaay too much and should be tilting more. I feel like I rarely land titls of any kind with Luigi, as he dtilt is so limited and his uptilt is extremely situational (though powerful). I was wondering if anyone could talk about using ftilts, any combos or specific uses I should be looking for?

 

[Pyr]

I have a sneaking suspicion that I jab-combo waaaay too much and should be tilting more. I feel like I rarely land titls of any kind with Luigi, as he dtilt is so limited and his uptilt is extremely situational (though powerful). I was wondering if anyone could talk about using ftilts, any combos or specific uses I should be looking for?

I used F-tilt as more of a spacing tool than anything. Early on, it's punishable on hit (0-18%). Not sure if it combos into anything, but it seems to jab reset at low percents. It lasts a little bit, so you might catch a tech when trying for a jab reset.

 

[1PokeMastr]

How do you guys fair off with ROB? I honestly have so many issues playing against ROB no matter how much I spot dodge, roll, shield. Such a nuisance and a nightmare all together.

Stop doing those things and fight Rob up close, trying to fight him with projectiles or mid range will not work, neither will rolling or spotdodging

 

[hey_there]

How do you guys fair off with ROB? I honestly have so many issues playing against ROB no matter how much I spot dodge, roll, shield. Such a nuisance and a nightmare all together.

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3_vOtY5kCc and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGiWeq_t9V0

Learn how to steal the gyro and how to glide toss with it. It opens up a whole new world of combos on ROB's big ass. I haven't played good ROBs so I don't know who actually has an advantage/disadvantage, but learning good item play will really help you in this match, as well as others (Mega Man, Diddy, (Toon) Link, etc.).

 

[Pyr]

How does the Luigi boards feel about D-Throw > rising Nair (sour hit) > Double Jump Down-B?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Never tried that. How does that link? Is it a true combo? If not then it can be a risky move because if they air dodge or jump away then we can be put in a disadvantage. I'm interested in trying this tho

 

[Pyr]

Never tried that. How does that link? Is it a true combo? If not then it can be a risky move because if they air dodge or jump away then we can be put in a disadvantage. I'm interested in trying this tho

DThrow > sour hit Nair is a true combo. Down B from the nair isn't a true combo via training mode, but the FH sourhit nair will give us time to react to an air-dodge, aerial, etc. Also, if they can't react within 4-6 frames of leaving hitstun, it might as well be a true combo, as nothing they'd have, including air dodge, is fast enough to escape. They'd have to be frame perfect.

If we do the down B on the first frame that we can, along with our double jump (as in we conditioned them to never air dodge and let us catch them, or they don't have any decent options in this position), then you start getting Down-B to kill sub 90 without rage.

That, and we can follow an air-dodge if they don't fast-fall. So, if you can kill outright from dthrow, just kill them. But, if you sacrifice a few % for the sour hit, you end up getting them into a low-risk, high reward situation for Luigi. If they do nothing, they die early. If they air dodge and we read it, they're now falling towards Luigi and we can get anything we can get off of a d-throw, but higher in the air. If they jump, they are now above Luigi without a jump. If they attack, it has to be one of the fastest attacks in the game AND has to hit either well in front, behind, or under them to do anything simply because Down-B is disjointed and fast enough to catch people. If they do nothing and also specifically wait to do something on reaction... We get free whatever through conditioning and baits.

I love playing Luigi as a setup character and this compliments him so well. Let me know how your testing goes.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Just do strong hit Nair then wait them out.
If they do an aerial, you can down b
Airdodge ? Another aerial
Jump ? Down B

It's entirely read based but not something you should go for all the time

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

When playing on stages where you go through the bottom platform (Delfino, Traveling part of Halberd), you can Cyclone on stage when someone jumps/Up Bs through the bottom for a nice little spike. This also works well on any stage if the player is grabbing the ledge with no invincibility. You MAY have to mash B slightly to get the spike hitbox out.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Mashing b doesn't create the spike hitbox
Every hit before the final hit is a "spike" as in it's actually an autolink angle to keep them in

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I've been doing this new thing with Cyclone that's been working well to rack up some damage. When I trap a grounded player in a Cyclone, I move back and forth to make them fall out and hit the ground. Very rarely they will tech this. Once they are grounded, this puts them in a tough position similar to Ganon's Flame Choke. We can cover just about every option without having to guess too much.

If they roll in, you up smash, grab, up B, etc. If they get up or do get up attack you get free grab. Roll away, you can catch this with Dash attack, dash grab, etc.

 

[PXL]

Hello everyone! so i've been messing around with luigi recently, and during training mode one day, I found some really cool tricks including his crouch gliding (pxl walking). In this gameplay, I just mess around it, trying to find its applications in battle. I feel like this trick can be used in battle and help improve your gameplay, so check it out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lGoCr44uYk