Social The Koopa Prince: Bowser Jr - Come introduce yourself!

[YoshiandToad]

I really like the alts.

I dislike Jr. a lot, but absolutely adore his moveset, so being able to play as Ludwig is a great option! Likewise those who dislike the Koopalings can side with Bowser Jr.

I see this as a very clever compromise. Very few people should be cross with so many character options from Jr. alone.

Hell, I'm not even mad that Toad missed out yet again to three other Mario characters with the promise of Koopaling alts seemingly becoming a thing.

 

[Stenton]

I also hope for Koopalings Alts.

I didn't want BJ to have his Paint Brush as an only attack because it just seems bland. I like the Koopa Car idea and I am actually excited with his moveset. His Car is unique and special and it won't disrupt the hitboxes for Alts. I don't dislike Bowser Jr, but I like Roy, Iggy, Lemmy and Larry more.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I deconfirmed the Koopaling theory. :D

Also; how cool would it be if he used his paintbrush and magic wand for a few attacks. Maybe even summon a Magikoopa to do an attack then disappear?

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

How was it deconfirmed when it's more confirmed then before?

 

[Reila]

I really like the alts.

I dislike Jr. a lot.

Hence why I hate the idea of Koopalings. People who don't like Jr shouldn't touch this character.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

How was it deconfirmed when it's more confirmed then before?

Bowser Jr. himself is capable of being attacked. If the Koopalings were to be alts; they would have to have the same dimensions for hit/hurtbox functions. They do not. The slot is also called Bowser Jr.

Ergo, the Koopalings are not playable via his slot.

 

[KingZing]

Hence why I hate the idea of Koopalings. People who don't like Jr shouldn't touch this character.

Sorry, but that is incredibly unfair.

Anyways, what are you people whining about? Wasn't Lucina going to be a Marth alt at first? Isn't Alph rumored to be an Olimar alt? What's the problem?!

Imagine Lucina was Marth's alt. Following your logic, if someone doesn't like Marth can't play with Lucina? Do you really think it's reasonable?

A different character alt is much better than a simple recolor!

 

[Daniee]

Super not a fan of having the Koopalings as alts.

I want to play as a black-colored Bowser Jr., not Morton.

The Koopalings all have their own set of abilities, while using a mini Clown Car has kinda been Junior's thing for the past four years or so. It just doesn't seem right.

It just seems like a stupid attempt at appeasing the people who don't like Junior for dumb reasons, when they should just be telling those people "Don't use him if you don't like him."

 

[YoshiandToad]

Hence why I hate the idea of Koopalings. People who don't like Jr shouldn't touch this character.

All about preference.

If Koopalings ARE alts, it really doesn't stop you enjoying Bowser Jr, and it makes older fans like me who felt Jr. scrappy replaced the Koopalings we grew up with resent him a whole lot less.

Plus I like his moveset. I don't really care for Ness but I enjoy his moveset. Am I wrong to touch him because I'm not a fan of Mother?

 

[Robertman2]

Sorry, but that is incredibly unfair.

Anyways, what are you people whining about? Wasn't Lucina going to be a Marth alt at first? Isn't Alph rumored to be an Olimar alt? What's the problem?!

Imagine Lucina was Marth's alt. Following your logic, if someone doesn't like Marth can't play with Lucina? Do you really think it's reasonable?

A different character alt is much better than a simple recolor!

If ended up as just a alt, I'd be disappointed. Also, I love the idea of Koopalings alts instead of alt colors.

 

[KingZing]

If the Koopalings were to be alts; they would have to have the same dimensions for hit/hurtbox functions. They do not.

It doesn't depend on the rider's size, it depends on the Koopa Car size. Imagine two guys, one fat and one slim, driving a same car. Would the fat guy's car occupy more than the slim guy's just because he's fatter? No, it's all about the car's size. Now change the guys for the Koopalings and the car for the Koopa Clown Car. Voila.

The slot is also called Bowser Jr.

The slot is called Marth yet Lucina was going to be his alt.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

It doesn't depend on the rider's size, it depends on the Koopa Car size. Imagine two guys, one fat and one slim, driving a same car. Would the fat guy's car occupy more than the slim guy's just because he's fatter? No, it's all about the car's size. Now change the guys for the Koopalings and the car for the Koopa Clown Car. Voila.




The slot is called Marth yet Lucina was going to be his alt.

You seemed to have missed something I SAID. Bowser Jr. himself can be attacked as well as the car, which means if they were there so would the Koopalings; they have different dimensions and thus different hurtboxes.

 

[KingZing]

You seemed to have missed something I SAID. Bowser Jr. himself can be attacked as well as the car, which means if they were there so would the Koopalings; they have different dimensions and thus different hurtboxes.

Even if that's the case, I don't see the problem. All Koopalings would be scaled so they have the same hitbox. Or not be scaled at all, the height difference between them (girth doesn't matter because the KCC's diameter would be the same for all) is not that big. It would just be unnoticeable in the middle of the battle.

It's possible.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Just because it's "unnoticeable" doesn't mean that doing so wouldn't cause problems with balancing purposes. Sure, they all have the same moveset but there are still some details that would present issues.

 

[TechPowah]

The one thing I don't like about Jr. having Koopaling alts instead of color swaps is that it would mean only one player can be each character at a time. No having multiple Roys, Mortons or Wendys, just Jr./Iggy/Ludwig/Larry.

On the plus side, even if we didn't have Koopalings for alts, Jr. being in would mean we can finally have a Good vs. Evil team battle with Mario Bros. vs. Bowser Family.

 

[smashkirby]

Hey guys! This means that Bowser Jr.'s leak of having the Koopalings as alts. is more and more likely! Think about it!
1. Bowser Jr.
2. Larry Koopa
3. Morton Koopa Jr.
4. Wendy O. Koopa
5. Iggy Koopa
6. Roy Koopa
7. Lemmy Koopa
8. Ludwig Von Koopa
It all adds up to 8 "costumes/colors"! Koopalings confirmed!

Also, guys, You have to admit, at least now everyone who likes Jr. and everyone who likes the Koopalings now have a common ground. Guys, please. If you don't want to play as Jr., select a Koopaling. If you don't want a Koopaling, choose Jr. CHRIST!

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Koopalings confirmed!

....DIRT CLODS. I Gotta run through this again, don't I? *sigh* Fine. Clean up your ears and listen up!

Bowser Jr. himself is capable of being attacked. If the Koopalings were to be alts; they would have to have the same dimensions for hit/hurtbox functions. They do not.

Ergo, the Koopalings are not playable via his slot.

 

[TeamLaFlare]

You seemed to have missed something I SAID. Bowser Jr. himself can be attacked as well as the car, which means if they were there so would the Koopalings; they have different dimensions and thus different hurtboxes.

I posted pix on the previous page that show the Koopalings have only been varied on sizes recently in modern games. Their sizes for most iterations of their inclusion are relatively the same size.

It was also mentioned that Smash doesn't necessarily stick to canon when it comes to certain aspects, so resizing for hitboxes in the Clown Car does not seem to be a major issue.

It seems the issue is really just on people preferring just Jr. and color swaps versus Koopalings as alt. costumes.

 

[KingZing]

Just because it's "unnoticeable" doesn't mean that doing so wouldn't cause problems with balancing purposes. Sure, they all have the same moveset but there are still some details that would present issues.

(Ok last post about this I promise)

Fair enough. Then scale them. The Koopalings have changed in size throughout the games (sorry for the low quality, the original image appears to have been removed), why would Smash be different? Specially notice SMB3 and World (2nd and 5th rows), the difference is minimal.

And Sakurai has already stated that Smash doesn't follow the regular scale (Olimar is just a couple inches tall), size was never a problem and it's not a problem in this or any case.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I posted pix on the previous page that show the Koopalings have only been varied on sizes recently in modern games. Their sizes for most iterations of their inclusion are relatively the same size.

It was also mentioned that Smash doesn't necessarily stick to canon when it comes to certain aspects, so resizing for hitboxes in the Clown Car does not seem to be a major issue.

It seems the issue is really just on people preferring just Jr. and color swaps versus Koopalings as alt. costumes.

...I would expect this from a member of Team... blargh.... Flare.


You're point is moot; almost every character in the game is going off modern appearances. Mac, Villager, Lucario, Charizard, etc. - All of them use modern moves and visuals. Why would he change it.

That said, Sakurai does NOT modify hurt/hitboxes for mere alternate costumes: Wii Fit Trainer and Villager can attest to that.

 

[~Krystal~]

Hey guys! This means that Bowser Jr.'s leak of having the Koopalings as alts. is more and more likely! Think about it!
1. Bowser Jr.
2. Larry Koopa
3. Morton Koopa Jr.
4. Wendy O. Koopa
5. Iggy Koopa
6. Roy Koopa
7. Lemmy Koopa
8. Ludwig Von Koopa
It all adds up to 8 "costumes/colors"! Koopalings confirmed!

Also, guys, You have to admit, at least now everyone who likes Jr. and everyone who likes the Koopalings now have a common ground. Guys, please. If you don't want to play as Jr., select a Koopaling. If you don't want a Koopaling, choose Jr. CHRIST!

I like the wide selection of alts here. Ludwig, Wendy... very nice.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

(Ok last post about this I promise)

Fair enough. Then scale them. The Koopalings have changed in size throughout the games (sorry for the low quality, the original image appears to have been removed), why would Smash be different? Specially notice SMB3 and World (2nd and 5th rows), the difference is minimal.

And Sakurai has already stated that Smash doesn't follow the regular scale (Olimar is just a couple inches tall), size was never a problem and it's not a problem in this or any case.

... If anything that image proves my point. Look at Iggy's head, then compare it to Ludwig's. Ludwig's is MUCH Bigger while thin old Iggy has a small head. You would have to modify pose after pose for this as well as extend hitboxes and hurtboxes to accomadate the Empty space where Koopaling A would've existed. Koopaling B's head dimension don't match. When aiming to hit the head, Character C will either hit empty space that is blatantly empty or hit them, but since it doesn't match up, that part of Koopaling B's head doesn't "exist" within the plane of reality and hurtboxes.

 

[TeamLaFlare]

...I would expect this from a member of Team... blargh.... Flare.


You're point is moot; almost every character in the game is going off modern appearances. Mac, Villager, Lucario, Charizard, etc. - All of them use modern moves and visuals. Why would he change it.

That said, Sakurai does NOT modify hurt/hitboxes for mere alternate costumes: Wii Fit Trainer and Villager can attest to that.

Like you said, not all characters have their most up-to-date appearances...PacMan doesn't use his most modern Ghostly Adventures model. So it wouldn't be farfetched to change these guys slightly to add a twist of variety that other characters don't get the chance to have.

Like KingZing said, only the scale of the characters would just need to be altered and I would trust Sakurai and his team to get it right. Plus we have the Ninka leak backing up the alts speculation.

 

[TechPowah]

Keyblade, Villager DOESN'T use his modern design actually, because that would be the New Leaf design that made villager models thinner and taller than the Smash 4 Villager, who uses the Original/Wild World/City design.

Not to mention you could do with being less rude than to call people dirt clods and such.

 

[Roxas215]

But still, you're able to have four male Villagers, four male Robins, and four Zero Mission outfit Zero Suit Samus'. Shouldn't we be allowed to have four Bowser Jr.s as well?

I'm sorry, but the idea of treating the Koopalings as Bowser Jr.'s palette swaps is just ****ing stupid.

How is it stupid? Bowser Jr isn't the character. The clown car is. Without the clown car gimmick Bowser Jr probably wouldn't of made it. Having the koopa kids as alts is genius espcially when u consider how they been branding the koopa kids and bowser jr as their leader latley. Also with their inclusion in mk8 it makes even more sense.

 

[aldelaro5]

I think I missed something, but why a lot of people don't like alts?

It's aesthetetic because in the end, jr is still playable and the alts won't change the moveset.

So, why it matters that much?

Don't know, but I got confused to see alts that much attention than the actual videos of gameplay.

 

[Roxas215]

I think I missed something, but why a lot of people don't like alts?

It's aesthetetic because in the end, jr is still playable and the alts won't change the moveset.

So, why it matters that much?

Don't know, but I got confused to see alts that much attention than the actual videos of gameplay.

The main problem it seems(and this is from me reading this thread and the topics over at gamefaqs) is people believe the koopalings are the reason bowser jr is stuck to the clown car and not be a standalone character with his paintbrush.

My reasoning is the exact oppsite though. Without the koopalings i believe Bowser Jr would of had no chance at all to make it in. Think about it. Bowser Jr didn't even make it into MK8 yet the kooplaings did. And be honest with yourself. All bowser jr supporters gave up hope the moment Rosalina was revealed.

Nintendo obviously is putting a emphisis on the kooplaings lately. So cominbing all of them into one character gave Bowser Jr his chance. How people are mad at that is beyond me.

 

[aldelaro5]

The main problem it seems(and this is from me reading this thread and the topics over at gamefaqs) is people believe the koopalings are the reason bowser jr is stuck to the clown car and not be a standalone character with his paintbrush.

My reasoning is the exact oppsite though. Without the koopalings i believe Bowser Jr would of had no chance at all to make it in. Think about it. Bowser Jr didn't even make it into MK8 yet the kooplaings did. And be honest with yourself. All bowser jr supporters gave up hope the moment Rosalina was revealed.

Nintendo obviously is putting a emphisis on the kooplaings lately. So cominbing all of them into one character gave Bowser Jr his chance. How people are mad at that is beyond me.

Not only it can't be known, but I can't think how it would make sense logically.

Imagine jr never existed, what's the name of the character? A koopalings? Why this one? You would have to say "koopalings" which is missleading because they are alts. The only way is enumerating their names which is just stupid.

So, if the koopalings IS THE ONLY REASON he got in, why the koopalings would be weird ALONE?

Like, jr use a clown car (we can agree on this right?).

So, it would make sense for him to use it right?

Like the only way I see it is the koopalings being a bonus features that in the end, is just a plus that doesn't change core gameplay. Do you really think Sakurai put JR JUST because of this alts idea?

I don't get it... Maybe it's the clown car that made him playable, but again, theories.

Also, I don't know why people here gave up after Rosalina because from personnal experience, this thread bumped a few times, but less frequently than the Paper Mario one which I tough both had a similar situation.

Anyway, I don't mind about alts.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's the palette swap dilemma that's the main problem. Bowser Jr. needs to have actual recolors so that players aren't forced to have to use the Koopalings.

 

[Ryan.]

Okay now I'm really hoping the Koopalings aren't alts. This seems to have become the "I don't like Jr. at all but I like the Koopalings so I support him now" thread, which is why I stayed away from it a bit. Even if he is the default character and the Koopalings are just alts, I just wouldn't feel like Bowser Jr. is in the game. I'd instead be playing as just one of the eight Bowser minions in the Koopa Clown Car. Plus I'd like to play as recolored Bowser Jr.'s as well.

 

[KingZing]

It's the palette swap dilemma that's the main problem. Bowser Jr. needs to have actual recolors so that players aren't forced to have to use the Koopalings.

That's correct, and it's one of the main problems they face imo (not size). But I think I have a possible solution to that. The only situations that would happen would be in team battles and when two players choose Jr. in normal battles, right?

Let's start with team battles: Remember that some time ago, in a PotD, Sakurai said that same characters in different teams would have a different colored aura?

This could mean that color swaps would no longer be necessary for Team Battles.

As for two players choosing Jr., it could be possible that each one would also have an aura depending on the number of the player (P1, red, Jr. with red aura; P2, blue, Jr. with blue aura; etc)

It's the only solution I can come up with. But yeah, that's something important to take into consideration.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It's the palette swap dilemma that's the main problem. Bowser Jr. needs to have actual recolors so that players aren't forced to have to use the Koopalings.

What KingZing said. But I'll point out something important.

What if we never got Alts like these again because it seems that people actually prefer the recolors, rendering all these models being worked on waste of development?
This is better thing than not receiving Lucina, Pittoo (as much as I don't like him), Doc, Alph or so on. It's great to get to play as these unexpected characters you like outside of the main roster ingame. It also draws in people not caring about the regular characters behind these alts. I think the lifting off the recolor concept to give room for these is simply genius.

Also, like I said before, wouldn't Bowser Jr. and Koopalings fill the "NSMB"-representation for SSB4? Considering also how popular and massively selling series it is, it wouldn't have been any wonder they'd based Jr.'s moveset on the Clown Car. I presume they later went on to add Koopalings because awareness of their popularity and major presence + roles in NSMB-series. And so far, the reception is more positive than negative. Maybe it might even be that Koopalings are more popular than Jr. was. (Perhaps due each being unique individuals rather than a Juniorized Bowser at worst. Also, seniority due being prominent in best 2D-Marios back in 80's-90's before disappearing until NSMBW, SuperStar Saga withstanding)

I know a lot here wanted Jr. to be his own person, but it appears Sakurai's going for taking a big part of Mario-series' history currently by representing it's most played 2D-games to this day since Brawl. We have Rosalina already for 3D-Marios of this gen (Galaxy), and as far as I know, they're not as popular as the 2D-entries. So I think it's gonna be interesting to see Bowser Jr. joined by Koopalings.

Lastly:

It was pointed out that Larry's Clown Car seems to appear as teal/turqoise color. Blue Color basically for Bowser Jr.

 

[Roxas215]

It's the palette swap dilemma that's the main problem. Bowser Jr. needs to have actual recolors so that players aren't forced to have to use the Koopalings.

Your not forced to use the koopalings. Just pick Bowser Jr.

If your talking about 2 people at the same time i dont see how having the option to pick a whole different character is somehow worse then not having a alt costume.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Perhaps Bowser Jr., and each Koopaling could receive eight recolors, though it does make you wonder how much memory that'll consume.

Your not forced to use the koopalings. Just pick Bowser Jr.

What if more than one player wants to use Bowser Jr.. If Bowser Jr. doesn't have recolors, you'd be forced to use a Koopaling when you don't want to use him/her.

 

[Roxas215]

Perhaps Bowser Jr., and each Koopaling could receive eight recolors, though it does make you wonder how much memory that'll consume.



What if more than one player wants to use Bowser Jr.. If Bowser Jr. doesn't have recolors, you'd be forced to use a Koopaling when you don't want to use him/her.

Would Bowser Jr really have a alt color? Or would they just reclor the clown car? If it's the latter(which i suspect it would be since the clown car is the main emphisis here) Then the koopalings are sounding better and better.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

What if more than one player wants to use Bowser Jr.. If Bowser Jr. doesn't have recolors, you'd be forced to use a Koopaling when you don't want to use him/her.

No, they don't have to. Aren't we having Team Color Lines for this problem now? You can pick the same character while assigning him his own color in the Team Battle. P1 can be Red, P2 is Blue, etc. Simple.

(Wait, KingZing mentioned this already).

 

[Ryan.]

The team color lines was only shown off in the 3DS version, the version with the outlined characters. We don't know yet if it will be for the Wii U version.

Still, I don't think it's unreasonable to want to play as a different colored Bowser Jr. without having to be a Koopaling.

 

[KingZing]

What if we never got Alts like these again because it seems that people actually prefer the recolors, rendering all these models being worked on waste of development?
This is better thing than not receiving Lucina, Pittoo )as much as I don't like him), Doc, Alph or so on. It's great to get playing as unexpected characters outside of the main roster ingame. And it draws in people not caring about them because it's not a character they like or care about (usually). I think the lifting off the recolor concept is simply genius.

Indeed! Now that each character has 8 alts, it's the perfect time to add in clone alts! Fan favorites that would never get into the game without that strategy like Mr. L, Alph or the Koopalings themselves (apparently unless they're part of Kid Icarus () or have been in Smash before like Dr. Mario).

Sakurai, somehow suspiciously, insisted that Lucina was a special case, that she almost didn't get in. Who knows why, Sakurai decided to change a little her play style to that of Marth when she was her alt, but decided to squeeze her as another fighter instead of wasting all the work in doing her model and all that stuff.

Also, talking about representation, I would be surprised if there's no Pikmin 3 representation in the form of Alph being Olimar's alt. That's why I'm so positive about different character alts this time around. Heck, even Lucas could be Ness' alt now!

 

[Ryan.]

Unless in game and at the victory screen they change the name of the main character (say Ness) to the alt (Lucas), then it'd be strange. I think alts should only be colors or costumes, and gender switches if the character has male and female versions of it. I wouldn't say alts should be for completely different characters. Perhaps that is another reason Lucina was made into her own character slot, as Lucina is not Marth.

 

[KingZing]

Unless in game and at the victory screen they change the name of the main character (say Ness) to the alt (Lucas), then it'd be strange. I think alts should only be colors or costumes, and gender switches if the character has male and female versions of it. I wouldn't say alts should be for completely different characters. Perhaps that is another reason Lucina was made into her own character slot, as Lucina is not Marth.

Yeah, of course, and the voices of the characters too. That would also depend on the situation and the character, of course. Characters like Samus or Capt Falcon are just fine with palette swaps, but with characters like Olimar or Ness, I think a different character alt is more than possible since now there are 8 available.

Eh I think it could be used as both, same character and different character. For example, Peach: Shadow Queen alt and Daisy alt. Being different characters is actually the point of having so many alts, as 8 different-colored Peach's would be just unnecessary.