The Knights of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


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fogbadge

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Regardless of what Sakurai meant, let's not worry ourselves over it just yet. We have another shot at DLC, and that's something we can take a breath of relief over.

Ignoring the "game worlds" comment, I think our first line of business is Spirits. The best thing that could possibly happen to us is no new Spirits at all, but if we were to get some, what would it mean? Would that be a deconfirmation? SMM2 and FE:TH didn't get any, so there's a good chance SwSh could be passed over too. Still, it's something we need to be prepared for.
the way i see it theres a reasonable chance that "spirits deconfirm characters" could just be another fans assumption that sakurai will end up breaking
 

LukeRNG

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Has anyone decided on who to use in their playthrough of Sword & Shield yet?
I'm still sticking with Sobble regardless of it's evolutions.
As for the rest... personally i'm having a hard time choosing the other 5 with so many of the pokemon appealing to me (Drednaw, Corviknight, Yamper, Duraludon, Obstagoon, Clamorant and even Rolycoly). I might have to use more than 6 and shuffle them around.
 
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fogbadge

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Has anyone decided on who to use in their playthrough of Sword & Shield yet?
I'm still sticking with Sobble regardless of it's evolutions.
As for the rest... personally i'm having a hard time choosing the other 5 with so many of the pokemon appealing to me (Drednaw, Corviknight, Yamper, Duraludon, Obstagoon, Clamorant and even Rolycoly). I might have to use more than 6 and shuffle them around.
i wait until i see the whole line of new pokemon before i make my choices. though sobble and polteagiest a very likely and wooloo, rolycoly, duraldon and corviknight in the running. but thats very likely to change the more pokemon we get
 

Pokelego999

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i wait until i see the whole line of new pokemon before i make my choices. though sobble and polteagiest a very likely and wooloo, rolycoly, duraldon and corviknight in the running. but thats very likely to change the more pokemon we get
Its most likely gonna be one of the pokemon revealed before the games release, as the public knows them better than pokemon revealed when the game drops.
 

Cosmic77

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Has anyone decided on who to use in their playthrough of Sword & Shield yet?
I'm still sticking with Sobble regardless of it's evolutions.
As for the rest... personally i'm having a hard time choosing the other 5 with so many of the pokemon appealing to me (Drednaw, Corviknight, Yamper, Duraludon, Obstagoon, Clamorant and even Rolycoly). I might have to use more than 6 and shuffle them around.
I think I'll go with Scorbunny, as I tend to go with the fire-type in each Gen.

As for who else, not sure. Duraludon and Obstagoon look like good choices, but I'll need to know more about their stats first.
 

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Gotta say regarding how much we've seen from pokemon sword and shield: they've been keeping a lot from us.
So either next month or late september we're getting a relative blowout of info. such as new pokemon and maybe finally the evolutions of the starters.
I'm honestly shocked we've gone for so long without knowing what we're getting into with our new starter. And we've also seen next to nothing about the legendaries (not even how they look in-game).
Do you think this could be the first time we'll not get the evolutions of the starters till after release? Or maybe at least the final stages will be kept under raps like the kalos starters?
 

fogbadge

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Gotta say regarding how much we've seen from pokemon sword and shield: they've been keeping a lot from us.
So either next month or late september we're getting a relative blowout of info. such as new pokemon and maybe finally the evolutions of the starters.
I'm honestly shocked we've gone for so long without knowing what we're getting into with our new starter. And we've also seen next to nothing about the legendaries (not even how they look in-game).
Do you think this could be the first time we'll not get the evolutions of the starters till after release? Or maybe at least the final stages will be kept under raps like the kalos starters?
well there have been some leaks that got afir amount of stuff right so there are some idea of what sobble and grookey will become
 

Cosmic77

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This is the leak that describes the starters. So basically...

We have a giant gorilla with a wooden drum, a humanoid rabbit fighter, and whatever the Sobble evo is supposed to look like with a spy theme.

I'm really interested in Grookey's final evo, because based on this description, it doesn't sound like it would work in Smash very well. Just depends on what the wooden drum looks like and how it works.
 

fogbadge

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This is the leak that describes the starters. So basically...

We have a giant gorilla with a wooden drum, a humanoid rabbit fighter, and whatever the Sobble evo is supposed to look like with a spy theme.

I'm really interested in Grookey's final evo, because based on this description, it doesn't sound like it would work in Smash very well. Just depends on what the wooden drum looks like and how it works.
itll be very interesting to what each of them look like, i have my own theories about scobunny will become and i dont think the leak contradicts it
 

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Has anyone decided on who to use in their playthrough of Sword & Shield yet?
I'm still sticking with Sobble regardless of it's evolutions.
As for the rest... personally i'm having a hard time choosing the other 5 with so many of the pokemon appealing to me (Drednaw, Corviknight, Yamper, Duraludon, Obstagoon, Clamorant and even Rolycoly). I might have to use more than 6 and shuffle them around.
I'm still waiting to see what more we get before I lock stuff in for sure. Right now I'm leaning toward Corviknight if its stats cooperate and Rolycoly if it's a rare speedy Rock type and has a neat evolution. Starter-wise I'm waiting to see what their evolved forms as like, though Grookey is a slight favorite and may be who I go with if the rest of the line develops its musical motif in an interesting way.
 

Cosmic77

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Seems like Nintendo is choosing the DLC after the pass too.


Think this means we'll continue with the third-party fiesta, or will they use this opportunity to add some of their own characters?
 

fogbadge

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Seems like Nintendo is choosing the DLC after the pass too.


Think this means we'll continue with the third-party fiesta, or will they use this opportunity to add some of their own characters?
who knows theres no real way to tell
 

Delzethin

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Seems like Nintendo is choosing the DLC after the pass too.

Think this means we'll continue with the third-party fiesta, or will they use this opportunity to add some of their own characters?
who knows theres no real way to tell
Yeah, it's too early to say for sure. We don't have enough information to make that call.

Though we should probably expect the greater community to act as if they already know, based on how things have gone down in the past...
 

Cosmic77

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I don't think any of this helped clear things up, but of course some people are gonna interpret this as more third-parties. Just wanted to hear from you guys.

For now, it's probably best that we consider all possibilities and ignore the popular opinion of the community. After all, the larger portion of the community was dead wrong about more fighters following the pass.
 

LukeRNG

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I don't think any of this helped clear things up, but of course some people are gonna interpret this as more third-parties. Just wanted to hear from you guys.

For now, it's probably best that we consider all possibilities and ignore the popular opinion of the community. After all, the larger portion of the community was dead wrong about more fighters following the pass.
It may seem that if dlc keeps selling well, we could even get a third year of dlc, so there has to be a point where we get at least some first party characters. There's not many notable 3rd party characters left.
 

Cosmic77

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It may seem that if dlc keeps selling well, we could even get a third year of dlc, so there has to be a point where we get at least some first party characters. There's not many notable 3rd party characters left.
Most of the biggest names with ties associated to Nintendo have already been added, but there's still a few left they could add. As for third-parties as a whole, they could keep going forever if they wanted to, which worries me.

Anyway, it'd feel like a wasted opportunity if Nintendo didn't try to add at least a few characters from their own games, particularly newer ones. Many of their franchises such as Zelda, FE, Pokemon, and XB have revolving casts. Most third-parties aren't going anywhere, but the same can't be said for Zacian, Edelgard, and Rex. These guys have a narrow timeframe to get in Smash, and if they miss their shot, that's pretty much it.

Nintendo would be leaving out a notable part of their company history from the roster if they go full third-party. So far, this decade (2010 onward) has only gotten 10 unique newcomers (two FE, two Pokemon, two third-parties, Inklings, and Isabelle), and that definitely doesn't do this decade justice. The Switch has been a huge success, and I'd really like to see some characters from 2017 onward on the roster. I'd hate to see a majority of that time be skipped over in favor of expanding the crossover element, something that we really shouldn't be in any rush to do.

...

Sorry, I'm rambling a bit. In short, I hope Nintendo doesn't ignore their own history during the DLC.
 
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LukeRNG

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Regarding some characters people want, i'm still seeing quite a few assist trophies pop up constantly, namely Waluigi.
What are your opinions regarding turning an assist trophy into a character within the same game it was introduced/reintroduced?

I'm definitely in the boat of very unlikely as of now.
 
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fogbadge

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It may seem that if dlc keeps selling well, we could even get a third year of dlc, so there has to be a point where we get at least some first party characters. There's not many notable 3rd party characters left.
well weve got a few non notable 3rd parties in smash already so its not really an issue

Regarding some characters people want, i'm still seeing quite a few assist trophies pop up constantly, namely Waluigi.
What are your opinions regarding turning an assist trophy into a character within the same game it was introduced/reintroduced?

I'm definitely in the boat of very unlikely as of now.
i think its unlikely, but its not strictly impossible
 

Delzethin

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Regarding some characters people want, i'm still seeing quite a few assist trophies pop up constantly, namely Waluigi.
What are your opinions regarding turning an assist trophy into a character within the same game it was introduced/reintroduced?

I'm definitely in the boat of very unlikely as of now.
Unlikely until we get evidence that it's not, if you ask me. For the time being, we're best off focusing on characters who aren't summons, since there're still several compelling choices to be found and their numbers keep increasing as time goes on. The latter reason is why we're here to begin with, so I guess that's already a known thing, haha.

There'll be a lot of focus on current ATs because Smash fans are more familiar with them, but as things are I think they'd be better off redirecting their attention until we actually get evidence that summons are eligible.

Spirits are a different story, though. I honestly have no idea whether to consider them eligible or not. Keep going back and forth on it...
 
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Cosmic77

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Regarding some characters people want, i'm still seeing quite a few assist trophies pop up constantly, namely Waluigi.
What are your opinions regarding turning an assist trophy into a character within the same game it was introduced/reintroduced?

I'm definitely in the boat of very unlikely as of now.
Just because it's never happened before doesn't mean it's impossible, but I don't think we can simply ignore that fact either. Personally, I don't expect them to recieve a promotion any time soon.

Spirits should be fine, but I do think Spirits added as DLC are a grim sign of things to come. If we get a few Gen 8 Pokemon as Spirits, or even worse, Zacian and Zamazenta themselves, that wouldn't boost my confidence.
 
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Pokelego999

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Just because it's never happened before doesn't mean it's impossible, but I don't think we can simply ignore that fact either. Personally, I don't expect them to recieve a promotion any time soon.

Spirits should be fine, but I do think Spirits added as DLC are a grim sign of things to come. If we get a few Gen 8 Pokemon as Spirits, or even worse, Zacian and Zamazenta themselves, that wouldn't boost my confidence.
I think as a whole, spirits seem the most likely for promotion to fighter status, as technically, they don't pysichally appear (joke intended) and are shown in wol being capable of regaining their pysichal forms. Overall I'd say a couple characters that aren't spirits that are first party have a shot (Byleth/Edelgard, a gen 8 rep, poochy, and porky).
 

Pokelego999

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People are just overrating their chances because they'd "balance" the roster. And even then, they're ignoring spiritless Nintendo characters from series without fighters.
I'm just saying as they pysichally have more importance than say, Monita or Mallo or something (even though I made the Monita thread.) Besides, theres not really many other notable characters.
 

Cosmic77

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I think as a whole, spirits seem the most likely for promotion to fighter status, as technically, they don't pysichally appear (joke intended) and are shown in wol being capable of regaining their pysichal forms. Overall I'd say a couple characters that aren't spirits that are first party have a shot (Byleth/Edelgard, a gen 8 rep, poochy, and porky).
Spirits are synonymous with trophies IMO. Anyone who was a Spirit in the base game should be fair game now, since Mewtwo and Lucas weren't originally planned in Smash 4 but got in anyway.

People are just overrating their chances because they'd "balance" the roster. And even then, they're ignoring spiritless Nintendo characters from series without fighters.
I'm just saying as they pysichally have more importance than say, Monita or Mallo or something (even though I made the Monita thread.) Besides, theres not really many other notable characters.
I'd be fine with either, but I don't see them adding much to the roster. Neither are particularly popular, and neither really have much going for them to warrant getting in over someone extremely relevant (Byleth, Gen 8 rep, etc) or a blatantly popular character (BWD, Dixie, etc.).

It could happen, but I don't have much reason to believe their absence means much, especially since this second wave of DLC wasn't even on Nintendo or Sakurai's mind when they were adding Spirits.
 

fogbadge

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I think as a whole, spirits seem the most likely for promotion to fighter status, as technically, they don't pysichally appear (joke intended) and are shown in wol being capable of regaining their pysichal forms. Overall I'd say a couple characters that aren't spirits that are first party have a shot (Byleth/Edelgard, a gen 8 rep, poochy, and porky).
why does everyone put edlgard on the same page as byleth?
 

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So now i've learned that September is when we usually got the middle evoutions of the starters leaked: starting from Black and White, to X & Y and finally to Sun & Moon. But it seems that isn't the case this time around. I wonder what they're up to with their evolutions, why keep them from us for so long?

At this point i do believe the final evolutions won't be shown at all.

Also what is this?! https://swordshield.pokemon.com/en-us/pokemon-galar-region/zbpkxr1gw8/

1568359219442.png
 
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Cosmic77

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So now i've learned that September is when we usually got the middle evoutions of the starters leaked: starting from Black and White, to X & Y and finally to Sun & Moon. But it seems that isn't the case this time around. I wonder what they're up to with their evolutions, why keep them from us for so long?

At this point i do believe the final evolutions won't be shown at all.

Also what is this?! https://swordshield.pokemon.com/en-us/pokemon-galar-region/zbpkxr1gw8/

View attachment 238049
I think we'll find out eventually. There's still a ton of Pokemon that haven't been shown to us.


Also, that's probably Sirfetch'd. Here's my guess at what the description reads.

"Only Farfetch'd that have survived many battles can attain this form. When this Pokemon's blade shatters, it will retire from combat."
 

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I just now see the resemblance to farfetch'd. It's sprite is flipped 45 degrees to the left.
For some reason i only saw a green cubone with a lance.
 
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Cosmic77

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First off, other than the leek, it doesn't look anything like farfetch'd. Second, why would it be flipped 45 degrees?
It's supposedly another Obstagoon case, where a regional variant gets an evolution.

But this is probably close to what we'll see. I'd be very surprised if Sirfetch'd didn't have some type of long lance or sword.
 

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why does everyone put edlgard on the same page as byleth?
Because she caught on first within the Smash community, mainly. Also because she fights with an axe and there's a stigma against "anime swordfighters" among Western fans that falls apart in practice since Byleth's weapon is actually a whipsword and we've never had that type of weapon in Smash before either.

It's borne from a focus on the characters' identity first and their actual moveset potential only sometimes. Like how some of the people hoping for Grookey's final form, whatever it ends up being, to get in want it for the sake of having a solo Grass starter on the roster. But there's a lot more worth looking at than just surface-level traits! If you are into Edelgard or Grookey, why not delve deeper into the full scope of their abilities and what they could be capable of?
 
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LukeRNG

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Yeah, but it doesn't make sense why its flipped
I think the fact that many people see a resemblance to farfetch'd may be the reason they flipped it so it wouldn't be so obvious.
And given the wording: ''Only (blank) that have survived many battles can attain this (blank).
The second blank can only really mean either evolution or form. But given that also the category of pokemon is blanked means it has to relate to a familiar pokemon. And looking at it flipped, i can clearly see a sword & shield, with said sword looking a lot like farfetch'd's stick in it's color scheme.
 
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I guess you could say Farfetch'd new form got leeked. Any bird Pokémon is a top notch addition to the Dex in my opinion so to have a new line of Farfetch'd (assuming this is an Obstagoon situation, which it seems to be based on the white coloring of the feathers instead of brown) is a win in my book.

Rounding out the topics discussed is....Edelgard? Scrolling up, it seems the quotes are to blame, considering what Sakurai said on the post-pass dlc having people saying there should or will not be more first party options. I'd say first parties still have a shot. Corrin got added despite the m/o of the Smash 4 DLC being veterans and third parties. I actually doubt that Sakurai's roster philosophy has shifted more towards third parties since Ryu. He seemed to be pretty psyched to be working with Street Fighter content and back then, I think I recall him saying something simiar as what he said now regarding collaborations. While i can see the Fighter Pass being all third party. (Which makes sense considering the stages, music and Spirits are more exciting if they're from a whole new world) but l could see some of the post-Pass "content packs" being a first party character + some relevant music. Again, like Corrin.

Spirits are in my opinion obviously, fair game again. Pass 1 might've been planned during base game, but post-pass Spirits are like trophies and can be essily removed or modified to account for it becoming a fighter.

All this brings us to Edelgard, Byleth and the Legendary Wolves. The *other* reason Corrin got added. While saying he was a "promotional pick" is cutting corners (I'd say it's an overgeneralisation rather than stone-cold misinfo though), Corrin was added to make sure he wouldn't fall in the shadow realm between games. Two of Smash's revolving cast series are Pokémon and Fire Emblem. (Zelda has a revolving cast too but its plethora of sidekkcks and story-specific characters never got to see the light of day as fighter, instead being all holed up in their AT). Edelgard, Byleth, Zacian and Zamazenta are the new faces of these casts. (Of course, there's plenty of Pokés that could potentially break out and become popular but for the sake of this thread, let's keep it biased.)

Edelgard is like Decidueye, becoming popular before most of its game's content (including the teaching mechanic that would make Byleth the main character) was revealed and being a placeholder in fan rosters for "pick one from new game". This isn't a bad thing, especially since Edelgard did turn out to be the most important of the House leaders. The "axe" argument has been replaced by her legitimate interesting character development throughout the game, something that Byleth simply lacks in comparison due to being the avatar character). Of course, I haven't seen the full scope of Edelgard support and it's possible it's still based on her weapon not being a sword. In the end, I'd say Edelgard v Byleth comes down to preference. Byleth is the main character and unlike Chrom, can easily have a great moveset on its own. Edelgard's prominence is nothing to scoff at either though and her character might give her the edge for some people. I think a possible Three Houses character is gonna be Byleth, but I personally prefer Edelgard although I also commend that Byleth's set potential might be bigger than Edelgard's.

For Zacian and Zamazenta, we seem to be in the fog of war except there's no war. There's simply too little we know and even less that has officially been revealed to the public. It makes speculation hard, especially since Sakurai would get his heads-up an undetermined amount of time sooner than the public can settle on a favorite. Or not. Smash DLC post-pass is also uncertain. Sakurai might be able to only start picking the eventual Pokémon fighter once the game has been released and the audience has picked a fave if DLC goes on for that long. We don't know if Game Freak/TPC/The Other Powers That Be pre-ordered a spot in the DLC line-up or that Sakurai skips Pokémon. A lot of unknowns yet, which is why I've spent most of the time talking Three Houses.
 

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The "axe" argument has been replaced by her legitimate interesting character development throughout the game
People have also been able to make unique movesets that don't focus on "sword bad, axe good" after playing FETH. I'm still not interested in her, but I'm glad about that.
 
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