The Kirby Matchup Thread

[Phan7om]

Im pretty sure you can also duck like half of snakes moves.
Edit: How prof used crouch in that Snake ditto matchup is about the same way we can, and probably even better. Nades should also be used like that in the matchup as well.

Edit: To avoid double posting, here is a link to a lot of Kirby's matchups in Melee
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-official-kirby-match-up-thread-i-got-off-my-added-samus.155860/
Even though Melee Kirby is way worse than PM Kirby, a lot of the stuff they talk about carries over if you have any confusion on where to position yourself or w/e in that matchup.
Heres some Brawl ones too
http://smashboards.com/threads/kirby-match-up-advice-thread.296325/
http://smashboards.com/threads/kirby-match-up-thread-the-answer-to-all-mus.268901/
Brawl Kirby is even more different, but still some of the stuff especially the Brawl newcomers can be carried over.
@ SSS itd be cool if you kinda model the matchup list kinda like the 2nd Brawl link. Just use spoilers instead of links.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

I can say with near absolute certainty that Dedede has the advantage against kirby.

 

[metaXzero]

What the heck are you supposed to do vs. the Links (as in both Link and Toon Link)? As far as I can tell, they can play however they want and they hit really hard. and edgeguarding them can be a bit of a pain thanks to their grapple,

Been losing to Links for the last 2 weeks.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

What the heck are you supposed to do vs. the Links (as in both Link and Toon Link)? As far as I can tell, they can play however they want and they hit really hard. and edgeguarding them can be a bit of a pain thanks to their grapple,

Been losing to Links for the last 2 weeks.

First, you have to get in. To do that, usually camp outside of their rang3 for a while and stay away. You need to wait for the to do something unsafe. Usually, they will use a projectile too close to you. Mayb3 they will get under you. What3ver it is, you have yo notice that mistake and punish. If th3y are below, l cancel fair or dair if you want a grab. Also, you will want a grab whenever you can get it. if they get too close, do whatever you n3ed to. The important th ing is patience and mind games. Never go in recklessly from the same level as them. Always go in from above at an angle. High enough so that boomerangs angles upwards can't hit you. In fact, if you stay above them diagonally when th3y throw a boomerang, th3n you can easily swoop in and fair to grab, dair to u tilt, or bair. Do not approach toon link or link in general from below. Their dair kills early... at about 80 % in smallish stages. You want to keep them off stage. Grab ledge and punish tether reels or up b onto stage. they are dead if offstage and your edgeguarding game is good.

Hmmm. I say fear their boomerangs at high percents.

Dash attack clinks with boomerang.

Cutter dash in from above if they are firing arrows. Kirby is stronger than link once your in so got in, grab and toss offstage, and then gimp.

O my gosh. Chudat and chillin vs dj nintendo and amsa is so amazing to watch!

 

[Phan7om]

What the heck are you supposed to do vs. the Links (as in both Link and Toon Link)? As far as I can tell, they can play however they want and they hit really hard. and edgeguarding them can be a bit of a pain thanks to their grapple,

Been losing to Links for the last 2 weeks.

For grapple, read the grapple and drop ledge nair or bair depending on where they are. Tethers suck against kirby if you use him right.

In that first link at the top of the page, it has a segment about Link and Young Link in the Melee matchup, ignore the stuff that is different, but most of it can help you a lot with the matchup.

 

[luar1609]

Hi, I need tips vs Peach and Wario. Any info is appreciated!

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Hi, I need tips vs Peach and Wario. Any info is appreciated!

Your aerials beat wario easily. You see chu chase m2k's peach at ceo 2014? Watch when it was just chu doing a 1v2. It was amazing.

For wario, keep moving. Wario punishes rolls, spot dodges, etc. His side b is the biggest threat here. You have the advantage against wario as long as you watch out for side b. Dont over commit. Back out of approaches when necessary. Approach with well spaced fair or even dash attacks.

 

[Phan7om]

Hi, I need tips vs Peach and Wario. Any info is appreciated!

Inhale beats wario's side-b and dacus, if they get predictable thats a free 10%. Utilt and aerials beat a lot of things wario can do to you as well. Get him offstae, his recovery isnt that good and go for the gimp bro. Watchout for dairs and farts. When you think he might fart, either DI out of the combo or bait it so that he'll whiff. He can punish you pretty good if you give him the chance, dont. His mobility in the air is much better than ours, so reading his movement will be harder but still key. You almost never want to approach in this matchup, its more so a bait and punish... as it is for almost all of Kirby's matchups but more so this one than others. Keep him out with spaced bairs and fairs, when you see an opening combo him hard.

As for peach, we can duck her grab but its not a good idea to duck when we are next to peach and she is grounded. But because of that, you can sheild pressure her with spaced dtilts. Also you can jump behind her and pressure her with spaced utilts. 9/10 times in both those situations she'll roll away, and then 5/10 times after than she'll pull a turnip, so get ready to react to when she'll roll and if she pulls a turnip, shes screwed. If she is aerial its different, ducking makes it get real difficult for Peach to hit you aerially. Bair or Uair her quickly when she is floating, because if she is facing you 9/10 times she'll fair and fair is slow, so go after her she most likely wont see it coming. Inhale works too, but always spit unless you're really good at counter mindgames. B-reversed inhale is godlike cuz they'll never see it coming at first, her moves need to be perfectly spaced to beat inhale. Do a lot of retreating bairs. Spacing is key in this matchup, be properly spaced so that if she whiffs an aerial, you can hit her with bair, if you are in front of her all you have to worry about is nair which can get outranged by by bair her fair is too slow and can easily be reacted to and baired. Behind her, watchout for bair, be in range so that if she whiffs a bair her extended hitbox will let you be in range for a bair. Get her above you, Bait dairs and punish with uair. Edgeguard the mess out of her, unless she recovers low, Parasol will beat out all our moves. You can chain grab her to almost kill % on any stage. Watchout for turnips, damage is damage. If you are good at catching items mid throw go for it!

Basically, for all matchups you want to know what long combos/strings you can get on that character/weight class. You want to know at least 5 for each weight class. Also edgeguarding. Think of Kirby as basically a sheik with 5 jumps. And then imagine M2K with a sheik with 5 jumps, no one would get back to the stage lol. Once you b-throw them off, they should be dead unless its Mewtwo. B-throw, reverse edgecancelled Final Cutter spike (not cutter dash) is broken, use it while you still can lmao.

 

[Jethroo]

Don't forget wario can jump with fowardB and he can mix that up with his dash grab which looks similar.

 

[Tomoya Okazaki]

Honestly with my experience so far I think Link is a pretty big problem for Kirby. Sure you can duck under almost all of his projectiles if you space right but while he is throwing his projectiles he is jumping all over the place so it leaves you pretty defenseless, same with shielding it leaves you open and I just don't know how to deal with his wall of projectiles. Any tips? (and yes sure power shielding but that only gets me so far >.>)

 

[Jethroo]

Key to this fight is patience... I know it sucks to be patient with kirby, but it is a must for hit and run projectile styles that feeds on the opponents getting frustrated and then punishing when they rush in. Aerial Cutterdash will be a huge help in this fight.

VERY simple steps for this fight.
1. Look for an opening to get close enough to link. You have a lot of jumps and cutter dash. Use them!
2. When in range don't just reckless charge in at this point that is what link wants! even though do it for a mix up every once and a while.
3. Bait out one of Links laggy attacks. If he thinks he can still use projectile with you close punish with dash attack or hop cutterdash. Dash dancing is very useful for this to bait out something like a hook shot or a grounded upB.
4. If he run follow him, of course, but remember that he knows his projectile camping will frustrate his opponent and cause them to recklessly chase him allowing him to set up situation in his advantage to punish them. Stay close, but don't just charge in unless you know you can get away with it!
5. Use your aerial Cutter dash and space your Bairs, Fairs, and Nairs while you follow him, but be careful if you use Dair or Uair because link's great Dair and Uair will win out and can kill easily. Aerial Cutterdash is great for closing the distance and if you miss you can immediately add a aerial to the end of it or waveland to safety.

P.S. like you avater

 

[Phan7om]

Catching bombs is more helpful in the Link/TL matchup than you probably would think. It really helps you get in, its almost like if you copied his bombs. And when you have an item and you Cutter Dash at the very end you can still aerial and lcancel even if you are holding an item as well as AGT up/back or w/e.

 

[Tomoya Okazaki]

Key to this fight is patience... I know it sucks to be patient with kirby, but it is a must for hit and run projectile styles that feeds on the opponents getting frustrated and then punishing when they rush in. Aerial Cutterdash will be a huge help in this fight.

VERY simple steps for this fight.
1. Look for an opening to get close enough to link. You have a lot of jumps and cutter dash. Use them!
2. When in range don't just reckless charge in at this point that is what link wants! even though do it for a mix up every once and a while.
3. Bait out one of Links laggy attacks. If he thinks he can still use projectile with you close punish with dash attack or hop cutterdash. Dash dancing is very useful for this to bait out something like a hook shot or a grounded upB.
4. If he run follow him, of course, but remember that he knows his projectile camping will frustrate his opponent and cause them to recklessly chase him allowing him to set up situation in his advantage to punish them. Stay close, but don't just charge in unless you know you can get away with it!
5. Use your aerial Cutter dash and space your Bairs, Fairs, and Nairs while you follow him, but be careful if you use Dair or Uair because link's great Dair and Uair will win out and can kill easily. Aerial Cutterdash is great for closing the distance and if you miss you can immediately add a aerial to the end of it or waveland to safety.

P.S. like you avater

Thanks! I have noticed I don't use cutter dash that often I really should use it more.

P.S. Ditto

 

[Tomoya Okazaki]

Catching bombs is more helpful in the Link/TL matchup than you probably would think. It really helps you get in, its almost like if you copied his bombs. And when you have an item and you Cutter Dash at the very end you can still aerial and lcancel even if you are holding an item as well as AGT up/back or w/e.

You're right I should practice grabing his bombs it should help me out a lot! Thanks for the tip! :D

 

[JRad]

You need to be really careful about cutter dashing against projectile characters because if you get hit out of the start up animation you lose all of your jumps

 

[Phan7om]

^ x 1000
Ive been trying to tell people, up-b at all during anytime where it isnt needed is very unsafe... Kirby's spam that move way too much.

And on a side note, if you get pits arrows... know how to use them or you'll just look stupid lol.

 

[luar1609]

Hi! Tips against Roy and Lucas, thanks!

 

[metaXzero]

^ x 1000
Ive been trying to tell people, up-b at all during anytime where it isnt needed is very unsafe... Kirby's spam that move way too much.

And on a side note, if you get pits arrows... know how to use them or you'll just look stupid lol.

Yeah. It was painful watching Zero vs. Chudat at EVO first round where Chu got Pit's arrows, and proceeded to do nothing but get punished for them due to poor aim and using them at unsafe distances.

On a side note, I wish Kirby got the boomerang when copying Link. The arrows just don't seem to work that well for Kirby in the match-up. Though maybe I'm using them wrong?

 

[Phan7om]

Yeah. It was painful watching Zero vs. Chudat at EVO first round where Chu got Pit's arrows, and proceeded to do nothing but get punished for them due to poor aim and using them at unsafe distances.

On a side note, I wish Kirby got the boomerang when copying Link. The arrows just don't seem to work that well for Kirby in the match-up. Though maybe I'm using them wrong?

No arrows arent that good, you're probably using them pretty decent. Boomerang would be 100 times better. Bringin it back to the 64 days.

 

[SLUGS]

I'm having trouble facing my friend who is an extremely good peach and need some advice on how to deal with it.

He DI's out of chain grab easily. He uses turnips to space really well. I cannot maneuver under or over his turnips without being punished. And his punish and combo game is ridiculous. I cannot get to him to even begin to try to combo him. The best I have going right now is to jump slightly above peaches turnips and try to get to him quickly enough to use an Fair. I mix up this tactic by hesitating at times but I need a more effect method.

 

[Phan7om]

I'm having trouble facing my friend who is an extremely good peach and need some advice on how to deal with it.

He DI's out of chain grab easily. He uses turnips to space really well. I cannot maneuver under or over his turnips without being punished. And his punish and combo game is ridiculous. I cannot get to him to even begin to try to combo him. The best I have going right now is to jump slightly above peaches turnips and try to get to him quickly enough to use an Fair. I mix up this tactic by hesitating at times but I need a more effect method.

I did a little export on Peach above, read it. Also learn to catch turnips.

 

[SLUGS]

I did a little export on Peach above, read it. Also learn to catch turnips.

Thanks. Idk how I didn't see that.

 

[metaXzero]

So what's the game plan against Ike on the stage? Played a tourney last Saturday and never knew Ike could be so fast. Didn't know what to do to keep him out or get him off. Also, it sounds like this thread in the earlier pages agreed that Ivysaur is favorable towards Kirby. I guess I'm not playing the match-up right. Because at neutral, I don't know how I'm supposed to approach or defend. His F-Air and B-air have so much range, he can throw out leaves to discourage dash attack, staying at a 45 degree angle from him makes you Up-B bait (especially annoying on platform stages), and I just don't get edgeguarding him. Seems he moves in to fast for ledge grab N-air.

 

[Jethroo]

I'm still learning this fight myself, but

Edgeguarding him takes some time to figure out. His forward be can be stopped with any attack. If he cancels it to attack he falls to his death and if he doesn't you hit him. I prefer Bair or sometimes even dash attack of the edge for that. Also, his Forward B can be wall jumped like mario does with his upB.

His UpB is more annoying and complicated, also at some point in it he has super armor. This move as you have noticed will take time to get use to. At the start of his upB everything above and in front of him will be hit when he throws his sword up, but his body is still left below it. You can actually go between him and his sword and hit him out of it. He is vulnerable while using it from behind and while/before he goes up. I have actually gone below his thrown sword and then reversed inhaled an him while he was coming up. But, the easiest thing is the stage spike him with Bair or knock him away with Nair.

 

[Phan7om]

Just up-b Ike as he's using his up-b, not cutter dash... regular FC, but it has to be done at a certain distance; not too close but not too far... say maybe 1 and 1/2 Bowser lengths from the edge. On Ps2, its like right at the end of the platform. It can put him in a pretty bad situation as long as he doesnt sweetspot from a telegraphed height which can be edgehogged. Wont exactly work if the patforms are right next to the edges tho, (BF, YI, etc.) Also know that using it right as you end your jumpsquat shortens the duration of the FC by like 10 frames or something.

 

[metaXzero]

Anything to add on the Ivysaur match-up though? I can barely find videos of that.

 

[Phan7om]

Dont dash attack if he has the possibility to Razor Leaf, or approach grounded in general. Jump over them. Get close to him and sheild, punish whatever he has to throw out. WD oos really helps in this matchup. Get him up in the air and juggle him with Utilts and Uairs. Dont let him land, if he does utilt him back up and repeat the process. Stay from behind him, her bair is really good. CC the bair if your close and at low %s. Your bait and punish game has to be on point, with all matchups. It seems to me that a lot of times if you get too close to them, they will roll to try to get more space to throw more razor leafs, read that and never let him get too far. Dont get above him, but never be predictable and rock... coming back down offstage is actually really good. Learn to deal with tethers, bair, nair and dair from the ledge really helps. If you're good at comboing into solarbeam get it. A large part of Kirby's meta is mindgames, movement, baits and punishes... if you're good at that all matchups become a lot easier.

 

[JRad]

GOhan covered a lot and im feeling lazy.

How to beat ike - duck.

Definitely worth taking Ivysaurs power. He dies off the top early enough for you to easily combo into uair which is nice.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Anyone have any Diddy experience? My other characters are just awful against him. :[

 

[SLUGS]

Anyone have any Diddy experience? My other characters are just awful against him. :[

Not particularly but in matches that I've seen it seems the trick is to throw his bananas back at him. I also feel like you may want to keep the fight on the ground. Definitely edge guard when he's coming back to the stage. That's all speculation though I'm not really that experienced but I thought I'd give an input.

 

[Phan7om]

Anyone have any Diddy experience? My other characters are just awful against him. :[

Diddy is one of those matchups I really dont know, and might change (for the better prob.) in the next release but ill try to give you basic advice.

Master your item game, the better you are with bananas the easier it is to fight them. Its almost like they dont even beceome an option anymore for him if you're good enough. If you get one, be creative with it by stopping Diddy's approach or just throwing it up to control space... never throw it offstage. Cutter Dash means you stay airborne and cant slip over them while you're doing it and you can waveland out of CD to catch bananas. Also at the very end of CD you can still do any aerial even when holding an item, make use of that.

Also, when you read this you might laugh/cringe, get him offstage and GIMP him! His recovery might be good but Kirby has one of the best gimp games in PM dont be afraid to go offstage. Dair the up-b, misfire barrels are a problem tho, and just keep grabbing the edge and dairing/bairing when he gets close. Also learn to Final Cutter the ledge backwards WHILE your holding onto it just by pressing reverse up-b. If he gets within that range, it sends him down pretty far.

If you grab him, dthrow him and start tech chasing, but bthrow if your back is to the edge. The better you can read and punish his tech's the quicker he'll go up in %. I literally read the Melee Sheik and Falcon boards on tech chasing tips lol.

Stay moving but dont get predictable, force Diddy to throw his banana and then punish him cuz he'll try to go after it. If you're grounded, just sheild/catch the bananas and tilt/grab his followups. Get him in the air and juggle him, dont over extend yourself of you'll eat a Dair/Fair. Bait an aerial and punish. If he pulls a banana in the air, hes most likely gonna throw it down so just catch it and insta throw it back at him. (Insta throw and AGT are very helpful)

 

[SSS]

All the Ivysaur players are always ******** about some crazy chaingrab Kirby has on Ivy. . .

brb testing ;D

 

[Phan7om]

All the Ivysaur players are always *****ing about some crazy chaingrab Kirby has on Ivy. . .

brb testing ;D

lmao we have it on like everyone except fastfallers not just ivy

eDit: well potentially, they can DI

 

[Frost | Odds]

Chaingrab doesn't work on Ivy if she DIs. I've tested at length.

EDIT: thanks, Gohan! I actually have a Diddy and a Link so GT/AGT already come naturally. I just didn't know if/how well/how Kirby could compete.

 

[JRad]

I am still convinced we can't chaingrab anyone that DIs. I have yet to see otherwise

 

[Phan7om]

I am still convinced we can't chaingrab anyone that DIs. I have yet to see otherwise

Yeah thats prob true, thats why i never really consider the cg when i think about the matchup. I hate bringing it up.

 

[SSS]

Yeah thats prob true, thats why i never really consider the cg when i think about the matchup. I hate bringing it up.

can usually get one and then on floaties do another one into uptilt or fast fall fair or uair into another grab, or you could da into utilt if they're a bit heavy or at low percents, or you could jump in and uair, or nair, or weak front hit bair (or strong bair if backwards di) or jump in, inhale, swallow, jump and uair, waveland to dash attack to follow DI, SolarBeam :3

 

[Phan7om]

can usually get one and then on floaties do another one into uptilt or fast fall fair or uair into another grab, or you could da into utilt if they're a bit heavy or at low percents, or you could jump in and uair, or nair, or weak front hit bair (or strong bair if backwards di) or jump in, inhale, swallow, jump and uair, waveland to dash attack to follow DI, SolarBeam :3

Well yeah you can get followups easily, i know that. But i mean a 0 to death one.

 

[JRad]

I am going to a tournament today so I will try to test some grab stuff out. I will post videos later for critiquing since I haven't posted any kirby videos yet

 

[SSS]

Well yeah you can get followups easily, i know that. But i mean a 0 to death one.

There's almost always a reset of some sort with Kirby, is what I'm saying. A grab can lead to death if you're smart.