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The Initial Culture Shock of Characters.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
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Because I do not have enough insight into Peach to say for certain what is and isn't true for her matchups. However, based on what I read in, among other things, the King DeDeDe match-up thread and the Meta Knight matchup thread, I can state that I disagree with a lot of the things that were said and ultimately used to base the match-up ratios on.

For one thing, Dark.pch failed to even mention Waddle Dees/Doos.
Fair enough. I respect that
Regarding Waddle Dees/Doos, they're fairly easy to perfect shield. In the air, Peach can Toad/airdodge them

Range, priority, safeness, aerial prowess, ground game, comboability, stringability, edgeguardability, KOability, recovery. MK beats Peach in pretty much ALL of this.
Peach can defend herself off the edge reasonably well against MK thanks to Toad. Her Up + B will go through his Dair when used correctly as well. They're not wonderous things that will protect her all the time but they're still decent
Peach also has a projectile, which whilst you'll probably see as a very weak arguement, it does help keep MK at bay. Her F Tilt can stop his aerials approaches and her F Smash can knock him out of his Tornado (she can pivot grab him out of it as well provided he's not too high in the air)
Of course, that doesn't really help with the other things you mentioned


Just out of curiousity, what is the general consensus about Peach vs. G&W (not just what has been said in the character specific boards)?
I haven't fought enough good G&W's but I think the general consensus about Peach vs G&W is that it is in G&W's favour at around 60:40/65:35. Don't quote me on that one because I'm not sure but I know it's a bad match up, mainly due to his Bair and Bucket Cancelling (again, don't quote me)
The times I have fought G&W's, I didn't really like it. Silly F Smash


Yes. But she still isn't viable at the national level.
True. I will be interested all the same to whether Peach does do well in a major tourney

I did. Many times over. Just maybe not specifically directed at you:
Peach is not crap. There's just so many characters so much better than her.
My apologies, I must have missed that
And for the record, as I posted before, I completely agree with this
 

Yuna

BRoomer
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Fair enough. I respect that
Regarding Waddle Dees/Doos, they're fairly easy to perfect shield. In the air, Peach can Toad/airdodge them
So? Dark.pch mentioned turnips yet didn't bother to mention Waddles.

Peach can defend herself off the edge reasonably well against MK thanks to Toad.
Which is slow... and unsafe. MK can bait her in toading and then whack her during the lag afterwards. Or just hit her from below or above where Toad won't help her. MK has multiple jumps. He's really good at baiting because of this.

MK is one of the best edgeguarders in the game. Peach is not one of the best antiedgeguarders. Toad gives he a tool, not an "Anti-MK edgeguard win"-like tool.

Her Up + B will go through his Dair when used correctly as well. They're not wonderous things that will protect her all the time but they're still decent
Solution: Don't spam that **** Dair. Spam other, less Up B:able moves!

Peach also has a projectile, which whilst you'll probably see as a very weak arguement, it does help keep MK at bay.
Mach Tornado >>> Turnips. And yes, it's a pretty crummy projectile unless you've got Yuna Pulls on your side.

Her F Tilt can stop his aerials approaches and her F Smash can knock him out of his Tornado (she can pivot grab him out of it as well provided he's not too high in the air)
Solution: Don't spam predictable approach moves (and her F-tilt is laggy, so if he baits it or just spaces, yay him!). And don't spam the **** Tornado when Peach has enough time to Fsmash.

Of course, that doesn't really help with the other things you mentioned
Peach has tools which help her not get destroyed by MK. I have yet to hear anything which gives her tools to have a 60-40 against MK.

My apologies, I must have missed that
And for the record, as I posted before, I completely agree with this
Good! :D
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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I used qualifiers such as "AFAIK" and "IIRC". If I was wrong about any of these match-ups, then I apologize.

How does Peach not have the disadvantage in her D3 matchup? And how the hell is her matchup against MK a 60-40? I also disagree with many character boards' delusions with match-ups. Especially considering how the D3 vs. Peach match-up was largely based on the words of 1 player whose name I do not recognize at all (please correct me if Foursaken is someone I should be on the lookout for) and Dark.pch, a Peach player notorious for exaggerating Peach's prowess (and outright lying about it... plus, IIRC, he had at a time while tooting his own horn only attended one tournament and based the majority of his Peach BS on WiFi and friendlies... against players who I know are not playing on one of the highest levels of skill). And who knows how old that judgment is, anyway? And how many people's contributions were taken into consideration when making it? I count 2 on the D3 boards based on the quotes. Heck, Dark.pch's rant about the Peach vs. D3 matchup even managed to entirely ignore D3's Waddles, treating them as if they were nonexistant!
Dark.Pch is an example of a fanboy. However, I'll give you a quote at the time from more reliable sources.

DDD:
Peach > Dedede.

Nah, j/k. I'd actually say this is neutral or 55:45 Peach's favor.

Peach can dair > dair > dair > uair > utilt Dedede at 0%, it's pretty ugly, though escapable with proper SDI- but she can still DI chase and land an nasty 50% combo without a problem.

Don't get dair'd at low %.

Dedede can waddle-dee camp her to prevent floating dair approaches, and his utilt is scary if she floats too low. Peach doesn't have to float the whole game, or float at all, but fear of Dedede's chain grabs will usually cause most Peach players to abuse float too much and predictably. On the flip side, that float means Dedede mains cannot rely on CG's because Peach can avoid getting grabbed, and she punishes spotdodges HORRIBLY thanks to her ability to 50% dair combo you.

Don't spotdodge at all.

Peach'll **** the crap out of Dedede, but her biggest problem will be killing him, even at 150-200%. She can't get in with any of her kill moves (usmash, fair) if the Dedede uses bair defensively. But she can get him to 100% really, really fast.

I need a bit more experience with the matchup, I think Peach's best solution might be to keep ftilt fresh and use that to kill at high percentages through bair walls. Or, just don't try to kill and let it happen- she builds damage fast enough.

The Dededes I fight are Eggz, Emo$, and ZeroStar. I used to have a bit of experience with it, but I haven't had the opportunity to play them in around two months, so I'm rusty on the matchup.
This is the match up I've been waiting to analyze for the longest time. My entire defensive play style that I use on just about every character now evolved around me trying to beat my friends Peach.

Most Peach players will feel the need to poke around using their float, and like Praxis said, down air you to hell and back into an up air, up tilt at low percents. My solution to this is perfectly spaced forward airs. If she's floating at you, just jump back with her. Fighting peach is similar to fighting melee Marth in the sense that there is a bubble surrounding Peach that you don't want to enter if your playing on the ground. Back airs work well, and used defensively stuff just about everyone one of her moves. Personally, I save my back airs for edge guarding solely, but on some characters I need to abuse my priority to break one of their moves. Fortunately for us, Peach isn't one of those characters I find myself using them on for the purpose of beating one of her hit boxes out.

A good Peach player gets grabbed rarely, as most of the time she's aerial, only dropping to the ground when it's time to die. When you enter the 130's, most Peaches will start to FF forward airs at you in an attempt to kill. If you don't perfect shield the hit, you are usually not open for a free grab, as Peach's neutral A combo comes out pretty quickly and will beat out your attempt. Sadly, getting the grab is crucial as it is one of my favorite and main damage dealers in this match. Most chain grabs to the edge mean at least 20% guaranteed, and you need to put on that damage and kill her asap. Why asap? Well why not, you've got more matches ahead/better things to be doing.

From my experience, Peach's main kill moves are the Fair, perfectly tipped Up smash which kills in the early 100's, I think below 120, and the bomb/stitch face. Remember how you love using your side - B in hopes of getting that lucky Gordo kill? The feeling of satisfaction you get from that is unimaginable. Well, maybe I'm over exaggerating it just a tad, but the point of the story is, Peach has **** to throw back at you as well. Stitch faces do a good deal of damage, and travel fairly fast and can be glide tossed into. It's going to hurt if you get hit. Same applies to the bomb. I've never had a bomb glide tossed at me, but **** that would really suck now that I think about it. Pay attention to the faces on the turnips if you can, knowing what she has at her disposal can pay off.

As with most characters, you **** Peach off the stage simply put. Back air her as much as you please. You might want to lay off if she's below you though, I've found her Up B going through some of my attacks on various occasions. And don't just be cautious about the Up B, she can use any aerial while in float mode. Edge guarding peach is tricky. She can get that edge when she needs to, as well as bob and weave your attacks, so be careful.

In my opinion, this match up is 55:45 Peach's favor. She's just got combo potential at the wazoo on you during the early percents, and if it wasn't hard for her to kill you as most of her kill moves are telegraphed in advance, this match would be significantly harder. The importance of spacing in this match is of top priority.

Don't get hit.

Edit @ Gates:

Wow, I just realized I have multiple summaries on the first page. Woo hoo! But that's not what the edits for. I appreciate you putting up mine, but in contrast, I think it would be a good idea to put up a summary from an educated user of X character as well, that way they know what D3 users should be using, as well as X character.

Knowing is half the battle. /GIJOE!!!
 

Snowstalker

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
813
We can agree that peach is decent, we just need an agreement on how many characters are above her. I'm gonna say 15 or 16.
 
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