The Ideal Melee Roster Reboot thread

[Diddy Kong]

Please say your replacing DK's current side B with a Barrel Throw, and Diddy does the Spinning Kong with his tail ala Dixie, the Down B much like in Returns (even if not possible), and Gaint Punch becomes... Gaint Kick? Or a wind up spinning tail sweep? Please?

 

[3Bismyname]

making Diddy a clone of DK is harder than making him original. Diddy is far to small to be the powerhouse DK is, his body proportians are far to different, but most importantly just looking at the games their in they shouldnt be similar by any means

 

[josh bones]

You mean like falcon and Ganondorf?

 

[3Bismyname]

You mean like falcon and Ganondorf?

who share the same model

 

[josh bones]

who share the same model

...After this, I'm doing the only logical thing. I'm cutting DK making Diddy not a clone

 

[jaytalks]

come to think of it, I would take out young link, and combine it with my Diddy clone to make Diddy Kong his own unique character.
And Ganon's too big so I will go back to declonded Ganondorf.
Making this roster just shows how much Melee got right. As I much as a rep like Saki would be cool, I still put other characters before him when being forced to choose between characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Look guys. I can do Diddy propagando to

I'm considering making an ideal SmashBoards community Melee roster after we get 100 rosters posted and counting the averages.

 

[3Bismyname]

Look guys. I can do Diddy propagando to

I'm considering making an ideal SmashBoards community Melee roster after we get 100 rosters posted and counting the averages.

only problem i see with that is a lot of people are gonna play it safe and not changed much if anything

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'll predict at least King Dedede will make the roster.

 

[3Bismyname]

I'll predict at least King Dedede will make the roster.

him and Diddy have the best shots if u ask me.

 

[FalKoopa]

Here's mine.

Changes are minimal.
Sacrificed Doc and Pichu for King Dedede.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So you'd actually really consider adding the Ice Climbers on your own? Remember, you are Sakurai himself now. You can decide all you like. I know 100% sure that I myself wouldn't pick Ice Climbers. They also wouldn't be in Brawl. Maybe I'd consider adding them in for the upcoming game.

 

[3Bismyname]

i could maybe imagine coming up with Ice Climbers on my own, but not as a duo as its not like thats a concept from the original game anyway. my top pick retro characters would probably be Pit, Mach Rider, Little Mac but thats about it

 

[Xhampi]

I would like to know why everyone keep Zelda and cut Young Link.

Zelda never fight once in a game before melee when Young Link was the main character of a lot of Zelda games.

I suppose that you cut him because he's a clone but that's pretty much like if you were to cut Luigi then add Rosalina in SSB4.

If being a clone is that much of a problem, you could easily have given as well his own decloned moveset to Young Link inspired of games such as Majora's Mask, A Link to the Past and other abilities that Adult Link don't use in his own moveset.

I can also see the "we need the whole triforce playable" argument which I strongly disagree for the same reason that I say no to the people who want Waluigi because "we need all the plumbers". That is in no way a obligation.

Zelda could of very well wait until Brawl to become playable, even more when she finally show by then a little of her own fighting ability in game such as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess instead of using abbilities that Link use in Ocarina of time, abilities who could have very well be given to Young Link.

I like this thread, I would have never think that I would have protect Young Link, a character of a series that I don't even care about, someday ^^

 

[josh bones]

I wouldn't consider adding game and watch, but I'd definitely add Ice climbers. They bring a unique gimmick and nobody else used hammers.

 

[josh bones]

I would like to know why everyone keep Zelda and cut Young Link.

Zelda never fight once in a game before melee when Young Link was the main character of a lot of Zelda games.

I suppose that you cut him because he's a clone but that's pretty much like if you were to cut Luigi then add Rosalina in SSB4.

If being a clone is that much of a problem, you could easily have given as well his own decloned moveset to Young Link inspired of games such as Majora's Mask, A Link to the Past and other abilities that Adult Link don't use in his own moveset.

I can also see the "we need the whole triforce playable" argument which I strongly disagree for the same reason that I say no to the people who want Waluigi because "we need all the plumbers". That is in no way a obligation.

Zelda could of very well wait until Brawl to become playable, even more when she finally show by then a little of her own fighting ability in game such as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess instead of using abbilities that Link use in Ocarina of time, abilities who could have very well be given to Young Link.

I like this thread, I would have never think that I would have protect Young Link, a character of a series that I don't even care about, someday ^^

The series is called Legend of ZELDA. Why would they a younger link before her.

 

[FalKoopa]

So you'd actually really consider adding the Ice Climbers on your own? Remember, you are Sakurai himself now. You can decide all you like. I know 100% sure that I myself wouldn't pick Ice Climbers. They also wouldn't be in Brawl. Maybe I'd consider adding them in for the upcoming game.

Yes, I think I would pick Ice Climbers for retro.

Consider the other choices:
Takamaru
Pit
Mach Rider
Donbe & Hikari
Balloon Fighter
Duck Hunt Dog
Mike Jones
ExciteBiker
Little Mac
Urban Champion

>Takamaru and Donbe & Hikari are Japan only, so I wouldn't be sure how the West would receive them.
>StarTropics wasn't released in Japan, so Mike Jones is ruled out.
>Duck Hunt Dog and Balloon Fighter are meh in my opinion.
>A character who rides a bike would be unique, so I might consider Mach Rider. He can do whatever ExciteBiker can, and much more.
>Urban Champion's design is really generic.

So Little Mac, Mach Rider, Pit and Ice Climbers remain.
A two-in-one character is appealing, and combine that with Ice powers.

 

[Xhampi]

The series is called Legend of ZELDA. Why would they a younger link before her.

Because YOUNG LINK is as much the hero of said series than Adult Link if not more.

Following your argument, should METROID be playable instead of Zero Suit Samus, another Samus ? No

 

[jaytalks]

New, radical roster image on my original post:
Jigglypuff removed for Typhlosion [pictured by Cyndaquil] (establishes starters of current generation as reps, which is better than Pseudo Legendaries). I think jigglypuff really ties down picking reps for Pokemon, as it makes the series too generation 1 focused.
Ganondorf made via clone plus Dr. Mario. I would prefer Ganon because he occurs more but he's too big in OOT form.
Diddy Kong made by removing Mr. Game and Watch.
Pit made by removing Ice Climbers still.
Remove Sheik for Celica (Fire Eblem Gaiden). Now Sheik is reduced to one attack (B Down) for Zelda.
Falco decloned by removing pichu.
Added Lip to represent puzzle gaming, by removing Dr. Mario and Roy.

No clones, no alike characters per series.

I would like to know why everyone keep Zelda and cut Young Link.

Zelda never fight once in a game before melee when Young Link was the main character of a lot of Zelda games.

I suppose that you cut him because he's a clone but that's pretty much like if you were to cut Luigi then add Rosalina in SSB4.

Princess Zelda is a key character in the franchise and plays a pivotal role in the game. Young Link technically is the same person as Link, so he's already in the game. Also you want to keep the roster balanced. Zelda balances this roster in certain ways that Young Link can't.

 

[josh bones]

Because YOUNG LINK is as much the hero of said series than Adult Link if not more.

Following your argument, should METROID be playable instead of Zero Suit Samus, another Samus ? No

Zelda is much more important than young link and as important as ganondorf. I don't know anyone who would want Young link before Zelda

 

[Xhampi]

Princess Zelda is a key character in the franchise and plays a pivotal role in the game. Young Link technically is the same person as Link, so he's already in the game.

Also you want to keep the roster balanced. Zelda balances this roster in certain ways that Young Link can't.

Young Link also play a pivotal role in the games as the main protagonist of half of those back in melee.

Being the same character shouldn't be an excuse for not including a character.Remember that Paper Mario is also technically Mario but still show a lot of difference, so could have Young Link.
Also do not forget that characters like Dr Mario and Zero Suit Samus (maybe Pichu too) are technically already in the game yet this wasn't enough to stop them to become playable

I would like to hear more about the second part, I didn't comprend this well, sorry ^^'

Zelda is much more important than young link and as important as ganondorf. I don't know anyone who would want Young link before Zelda

While I agree that Zelda is as much important than Ganondorf, I hardly see how they are more important than the playable protagonist, it's pretty much like if you wanted Peach before Luigi.

 

[jaytalks]

Young Link is also play a pivotal in the games as the main protagonist of half of those back in melee.

Being the same character shouldn't be an excuse for not including a character.Remember that Paper Mario is also technically Mario but still show a lot of difference, so could have Young Link.
Also do not forget that characters like Dr Mario and Zero Suit Samus (maybe Pichu too) are technically already in the game yet this wasn't enough to stop them to become playable

I would like to hear more about the second part, I didn't comprend this well, sorry ^^'


While I agree that Zelda is as much important than Ganondorf, I hardly see how they are more important than the playable protagonist, it's pretty much like if you wanted Peach before Luigi.

The difference is that Dr. Mario, Zero Suit Samus, and Paper Mario are from different games. And the Mario's are from different genres. ZSS doesnt even have her own slot. Young Link is from the same game as Adult Link (so long as you keep with Melee's inclusion of OOT Young Link). No one is being unrepresented by leaving out Young Link, as he lives on in Adult Link. Young Link is one part of Link's Story in OOT. If you take out Zelda, there is no character who represent her aspect of the story.

Zelda balances the roster with her diverse moveset, as well as the fact that she is a female fighter. You take her out, that decreases the female roster by 25%. From a business standpoint, a diverse roster means more sales. Link would be just another sword fighter with a similar moveset as another existing character.

Luigi is not like Young Link. Young Link is like Mario, because all Links are more like the Marios of their franchise. So that comparison doesn't really work. The only alike comparison I can think of would be Pichu is to Pikachu as Young Link is to Link. But that doesn't even really work.

Zelda isn't more important than the playable protagonist, but the playable protagonist is Link. In OOT, there's no distinction between Young Link and Adult Link, because they are both Link. Link is already in the game, so Zelda would be the next character to add.

 

[Xhampi]

I use the Paper Mario one, because it's an argument use so much against him that I decided for once to use it to take the defense of a character.
For ZSS, remember that to not getting his own slot do not matter to Sakurai as he count them as different characters. Even in this thread Zelda and Sheik are told to be counted as different characters.

The Young Link who is represented could have easily represented any other game and get his own moveset (which is pretty much what I ask).

Was Zelda's part of the story in Ocarina of Time that much important to get a playable slot in a smash game before a character who represent several games by himself ?

Using your argument, taking out Young Link also decrese the swordsmen by 25% and once again , he could have a different moveset than Adult Link if given time.

I compared Young Link to Luigi, because back in SSB64, Luigi was hardly more than a Mario recolor, the notables changes of Luigi really only begun in Luigi's Mansion.

Finally for the last one, you yourself said that "there's no distinction between Young Link and Adult Link, because they are both Link" then how much sence would there have been if you were to get one without the other ?

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Cut Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Falco to add DeDeDe and Diddy. Cut Sheik to declone Ganondorf.

 

[jaytalks]

I use the Paper Mario one, because it's an argument use so much against him that I decided for once to use it to take the defense of a character.
For ZSS, remember that to not getting his own slot do not matter to Sakurai as he count them as different characters. Even in this thread Zelda and Sheik are told to be counted as different characters.

The Young Link who is represented could have easily represented any other game and get his own moveset (which is pretty much what I ask).

Was Zelda's part of the story in Ocarina of Time that much important to get a playable slot in a smash game before a character who represent several games by himself ?

Using your argument, taking out Young Link also decrese the swordsmen by 25% and once again , he could have a different moveset than Adult Link if given time.

I compared Young Link to Luigi, because back in SSB64, Luigi was hardly more than a Mario recolor, the notables changes of Luigi really only begun in Luigi's Mansion.

Finally for the last one, you yourself said that "there's no distinction between Young Link and Adult Link, because they are both Link" then how much sence would there have been if you were to get one without the other ?

Sakurai counts them as different characters due to the programming and work it takes to make the character. I don't have a source, but that's how I read it. He corrected when people were giving the total amounts of characters.Young Link still comes from OOT.

Link is the protagonist of all Zelda games. Notice how he's not referred to as Adult Link in Smash. Link has been younger in past Zelda games, but that does not preclude and the Melee Link from representing them. It's just a different presentation of the character. That's why he's named Link and not adult Link. There is no Young Link in ALTTP or AOL. They are all just Link.

Zelda play a very important role in OOT, as she help you throughout the game as Sheik, she gives you the OOT, and helps you beat Ganon. Aside from that, Zelda represents all the other Zeldas in the franchise, just like Link does. Hence why in Brawl no one considers replacing OOT Link and Zelda with TP Link and Zelda really replacing the character; they are all just supposed to represent Zelda from the franchise.

There's a big difference between the need to have parity between swordfighters and nonsword fighters, and parity females and males. One has to do with wielding a weapon, and the other has two do with creating a parity with the world at large considering females are about 50% of the world's population. Gender diversity is a business consideration anyone would make in order to make characters that females can identify with. I'm not saying females can solely identify with female characters, but they are more likely to do so. When I talk about Zelda balancing the game, I meant balancing a roster with 18 males and 2 female characters (roster without Zelda, not counting Pokemon and Ice Climbers). If you count those, it would still be 22 males and 4 females without Zelda (I forgot Jigglypuff the first time).

Luigi has had differences with Mario since Mario Bros 2. The comparison doesn't work because you used Peach as well. Zelda isnt replacing a Link because Link is Young Link as well.

I was referring to the in OOT. No one calls your character Young Link (or whatever name you select) and Adult Link. It's just Link (or whatever name you select).

I understand your point as I usually include a Young Link in any predictions I make for Smash 4. Having a younger Link is important, but not at the cost of the franchises's namesake and second most reoccuring character. In this limited Melee Roster, he's expendable. Hence the reason why Zelda was developed first by Sakurai and all the clones were added later to buff the roster.

View attachment 1217
Cut Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Falco to add DeDeDe and Diddy. Cut Sheik to declone Ganondorf.

Good choice to declone Ganondorf via Sheik. I recommend B-Down being now just a quick change attack of Sheik for Zelda.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Following the rules laid out in the OP, with clones in green and new additions in blue:

1. Mario
2. Peach
3. Bowser
4. Luigi
5. Yoshi
6. Wario
7. Donkey Kong
8. Diddy Kong
9. Link
10. Zelda
11. Ganondorf
12. Kirby
13. King Dedede
14. Samus
15. Fox
16. Falco
17. Captain Falcon
18. Ness
19. Pikachu
20. Jigglypuff
21. Mewtwo
22. Balloon Fighter
23. Marth
24. Mr. Game & Watch

Note: My choice in removing clones has more to do with me thinking they were poor character choices than anything; I don't have a problem with cloned movesets.
Dr. Mario and Young Link were dropped for the inclusion of Diddy Kong. Roy and Pichu were dropped for the inclusion of King Dedede. Ice Climbers' retro spot was taken by Balloon Fighter, whose game was always more prevalent than theirs (I would've then added Ice Climbers in Brawl). Sheik (who I've always found to be pretty auxiliary) was replaced by Wario. Pokémon Trainer would've debuted in Brawl, offering up the character switching mechanic.
24 characters, 2 less than Melee actually had. But there are four less clones and two more original characters, plus fan-favorite Wario (who would've had a moveset based on Wario Land instead of Wario Ware at this time, so yes). Twice the size of 64's roster.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I would like to know why everyone keep Zelda and cut Young Link.

Zelda never fight once in a game before melee when Young Link was the main character of a lot of Zelda games.

I suppose that you cut him because he's a clone but that's pretty much like if you were to cut Luigi then add Rosalina in SSB4.

If being a clone is that much of a problem, you could easily have given as well his own decloned moveset to Young Link inspired of games such as Majora's Mask, A Link to the Past and other abilities that Adult Link don't use in his own moveset.

I can also see the "we need the whole triforce playable" argument which I strongly disagree for the same reason that I say no to the people who want Waluigi because "we need all the plumbers". That is in no way a obligation.

Zelda could of very well wait until Brawl to become playable, even more when she finally show by then a little of her own fighting ability in game such as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess instead of using abbilities that Link use in Ocarina of time, abilities who could have very well be given to Young Link.

I like this thread, I would have never think that I would have protect Young Link, a character of a series that I don't even care about, someday ^^

I very much agree with this actually. I'm actually also considering dumping Zelda for Skull Kid, and re-add a Young Link to my roster. I also feel Zelda didn't really deserve being added to Melee. But like you, I'd make her and Ice Climbers newcomers in Brawl probably.

Following the rules laid out in the OP, with clones in green and new additions in blue:

1. Mario
2. Peach
3. Bowser
4. Luigi
5. Yoshi
6. Wario
7. Donkey Kong
8. Diddy Kong
9. Link
10. Zelda
11. Ganondorf
12. Kirby
13. King Dedede
14. Samus
15. Fox
16. Falco
17. Captain Falcon
18. Ness
19. Pikachu
20. Jigglypuff
21. Mewtwo
22. Balloon Fighter
23. Marth
24. Mr. Game & Watch

Note: My choice in removing clones has more to do with me thinking they were poor character choices than anything; I don't have a problem with cloned movesets.

Dr. Mario and Young Link were dropped for the inclusion of Diddy Kong. Roy and Pichu were dropped for the inclusion of King Dedede. Ice Climbers' retro spot was taken by Balloon Fighter, whose game was always more prevalent than theirs (I would've then added Ice Climbers in Brawl). Sheik (who I've always found to be pretty auxiliary) was replaced by Wario. Pokémon Trainer would've debuted in Brawl, offering up the character switching mechanic.

24 characters, 2 less than Melee actually had. But there are four less clones and two more original characters, plus fan-favorite Wario (who would've had a moveset based on Wario Land instead of Wario Ware at this time, so yes). Twice the size of 64's roster.

Everybody takes notes, this is how it's done!

 

[Sharkarat]

My Opinion on the Zelda vs Young link:
As long there's no Young Link there's no Adult Link, Only Link that represents all Links.
and I don't see it necessary to split these Before the most important characters (Zelda & Ganondorf) are added.
Personally I think I maybe would have added Impa as a clone of Sheik (with a changed Down B) before adding young Link.

Also My Melee Roster

First I made this with the Clones are worth 0,5 characters and semi-clones 0,75 rule, but noticed melee just has 23, not 26 characters by these rule.
[Collapse=Red are clones, green are Semi-clones]

[/Collapse]

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa in Melee. Whoa, I'd wanna see some reactions for that would it happen in a remake

 

[FalKoopa]

Impa in Melee. Whoa, I'd wanna see some reactions for that would it happen in a remake

I'm afraid of your reaction if that were to happen.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Here's mine

-Cut Dr.Mario and Pichu for Ridley
-Cut Sheik for a unique Ganondorf
-Cut Ice Climbers for Diddy
-Cut Young Link and clone Ganondorf for King Dedede

 

[Autumn ♫]

Here's your Diddy

 

[Diddy Kong]

Thanks. I will upload that one to my second post.

Been thinking of new ideas for this thread. Hope y'all keep posting.

 

[Starbound]

Cut all six clones and added Pit.

 

[volbound1700]

My Melee roster:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Wario (cut Young Link and Pichu)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong (cut Dr. Mario and Falco)
Link
Zelda (no Shiek)
Ganondorf (de-cloned, removed Shiek)
Kirby
King Dedede (replace Ice Climbers)
Duck Hunt Dog (replace Game & Watch)
Ness
Captain Falcon
Pikachu
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff
Star Fox
Samus
Marth
Roy (because I only have a 1/2 a spot left and I have to have a clone).


However to be fair to Sakurai and the process, 5 clones pretty much only replaced one considered character (King Dedede) so it really should almost be a 5/1 ratio.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Roy and Falco are the most popular clones thus far. Diddy, Wario and especially King Dedede and Pit are the most popular newcomers who made it in Brawl eventually. The least popular characters include: Pichu, Dr.Mario, Young Link, Ice Climbers and Sheik. Roy is often cut to, but roughly equally as much kept.

@ThatWasPeachy: You can still add 2 unique newcomers to your list.

 

[volbound1700]

I had a huge debate between Roy and Falco as the clone for mine. I just don't see myself doing Falco after Wolf fails. Roy was also recommended to Sakurai by FE and I would have likely listened to their recommendation and added him. To be honest, I would have pushed for one more newcomer (likely Pit or Mike Jones).

Are we going to do the same idea with Brawl.

I would also like a limitation list for Smash 4 that would be fun.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah I plan on making a thread for the Brawl roster reboot to if this thread becomes a succes.

Honestly, I think Falco was a nice clone in Melee. But mostly cause of how he played. Nobody seemed to mind him as a Fox clone much. And again, his statistics made him play hugely different from Fox. Only clones that come close in this regard are Captain Falcon - Ganondorf, but Ganondorf as a clone was just a real bad idea unlike Falco.

I also suspect Falco's popularity cause he's by far the most suiting second StarFox character, outside of maybe Wolf. But Falco functions much better as a full clone, whilst Wolf fits semi-clone better plus, power buffs on Melee Fox seem like a scary idea. Roy is also popular, and I get why. The impact Marth and Roy made was much bigger cause they where togheter in Melee I'd guess. Less people would be interessted in Fire Emblem perhaps if it wasn't for the duo of Marth and Roy.

 

[volbound1700]

Yeah I plan on making a thread for the Brawl roster reboot to if this thread becomes a succes.

Honestly, I think Falco was a nice clone in Melee. But mostly cause of how he played. Nobody seemed to mind him as a Fox clone much. And again, his statistics made him play hugely different from Fox. Only clones that come close in this regard are Captain Falcon - Ganondorf, but Ganondorf as a clone was just a real bad idea unlike Falco.

I also suspect Falco's popularity cause he's by far the most suiting second StarFox character, outside of maybe Wolf. But Falco functions much better as a full clone, whilst Wolf fits semi-clone better plus, power buffs on Melee Fox seem like a scary idea. Roy is also popular, and I get why. The impact Marth and Roy made was much bigger cause they where togheter in Melee I'd guess. Less people would be interessted in Fire Emblem perhaps if it wasn't for the duo of Marth and Roy.

Diddy Kong. I started one for Smash 4 where I limit by points. Give it a try.

I had a hard time when push came to shove. I wanted Dixie Kong and Dr. Mario back but had to leave both out in my Smash 4 one. Also left out Pac-Man despite wanting him.

 

[jaytalks]

Agreed on Falco. Even as a clone, he felt different and his cloneness made sense. He flies in Arwing, what other moves could you give him.

The Ganondorf clone has misrepresented him for two generations. Even though changed up some of his moves, the facts that they didn't even change up thing like his down special or neutral special made him very disappointing. If there was a choice between not having in him Melee so he could be completely original in Brawl, or keeping him in Melee, I would have taken the former.

Out of the Starfox team, Falco stood out because of his attitude and pride. Slippy was really annoying, while Peppy just basically showed you the ropes.