The Ideal Melee Roster Reboot thread

[Diddy Kong]

It was said so yeah. That's why I'd consider it to. Seeing as Jigglypuff in 64 was kind of a Kirby semi-clone except for the special moves.

Also, am considering making a 'semi-clone rule'. Which has semi-clones as Luigi count for 0.75 an unique character, and 1.5 a clone character. So that makes you able to cut an original and a clone character for 2 semi-clones.

 

[Dark Phazon]

No villians? Lmfaoo thats Super dry smash bros...
Thats drier than corn flakes with no milk....

 

[jaytalks]

I dont think jigglypuff is a semiclone at all. The only thing that she shares with Kirby is that they are pink and balloons. Special move selection is usually how I determine someone is a clone, and Jigglypuff shares none of her moves with Kirby.

I dont think that Luigi was even a semi clone in this game. All his normal attacks were different animations, and the moves he shared with Mario had such different properties, and he had the green missile.

 

[Diddy Kong]

In Melee, no, Jigglypuff wasn't a semi-clone of Kirby. But I was talking about SSB64 Jiggz. SSB64 Luigi also was a full clone of Mario. I'd consider naming SSB64 a semi-clone cause back then she probably got in cause of her being a like to Kirby, and her aime popularity. Hence, in Melee she COUlD'VE been replaced by Meowth.

 

[Shun_one]

I'm honestly surprised you're being so generous with the originals vs Clones thing. I had almost thought you'd do what it seems Sakurai did and trade 1 original for 6 clones. Any who, I'll do two. One with your rules, the other with the idea that any additional original character after the first 20 will cost all 6 clones. Also, I'm working under the assumption that a "clone" is a character who is made using another characters assets as a starting point, not their special moves (see Hwa Jai and Joe of King of Fighters 13).

Diddy's Melee Reboot Rules

No Clones, All villains are unlockable as well as Marth, Ice Climbers, and Game & Watch. Zelda and Sheik still share a spot, but I have to include them as separate characters as far as development time goes.

All of the clones were cut here.

Roster 2 (21st Original character costs 6 clones)
Same as above, minus Ridley, and King Dedede brining the total to 21 original characters.

Holy crap, it is immensely more difficult to do it that way. G&W, Ice Climbers, and Marth stay as surprise characters. The rest are for your entertainment.

 

[Jakor]

Here is mine, following the rules in this thread.

Changes:

• Decloned Ganondorf
• Removed all the other clones (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Falco, Pichu and Roy)
• Removed Sheik
• Added Diddy Kong, King Dedede and Wolf, the latter having an original moveset

 

[Banjodorf]

Wait a minute Diddy, I'm not so sure about that buyout business considering Conker's BFD was released the same year as Melee. I'm not really sure we can say these things for sure, especially since development would've taken place possibly even before the release of Banjo-Tooie (which was released Holiday 2000)

 

[shinhed-echi]

If Krystal is too much trouble, then this is the part of my Roster I would change.


Krystal goes:

Two clones come in:

-Falco (same reasons as Melee, to act sort of like SSB64 Fox)
-Mach Rider (what Ganondorf became) (( Tourney scene just wouldn´t be the same without a heavy Falcon clone))

 

[MasterOfKnees]

So this is what happens:

Dr. Mario and Young Link are sacrificed for Diddy Kong. He had high demand, he is much loved, and is very important to his franchise.

Pichu and Roy are sacrificed for Ridley. Ridley is the only character who is on this roster who isn't in Brawl. The guy appears in the opening, which was also the trailer, and even back then he had some demand. Plus, I need to satisfy my ego somehow.

Ice Climbers are cut for King Dedede. Dedede is much more important to a Nintendo All-Stars game in general, and had quite the amount of demand to make it in over a gimmick character. G&W and even Marth represents Nintendo's early days well enough on his own anyways. Ice Climbers can wait 'till Brawl where they can join Pit as retro characters.

Mewtwo is cut for Charizard. Charizard is more popular, more iconic, and should get in over both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo in every occassion.

Peach is cut for Wario. Wario is counted as a Mario character in this situation, given that Wario Ware was non-existant at this point iirc. Wario had more demand than Peach i think, and he fits much better as a fighter. Save Peach for Brawl then. Quite the controversial cut, but w/e.

Ganondorf, Falco and Luigi stay as clones.

23 characters, which means 2 less characters overall, 11 unlockables just like in Melee.

It hurts me so to not include Meta Knight seeing as he's my 2nd favorite Nintendo character (only after Ridley,) but alas, due to having to have a snippet of realism he'll have to wait for Brawl.

 

[EddyBearr]

Max is 20, clones are .5, semi-clones are .75?

I'm just gonna call Ice Climbers a 1.25 character because that's tricky stuff.

Roster total is "23" if we count clones as .5, luigi as .75, and IC as 1.25 in original roster. I must aim for 23 total value, 26 literal total.

*Hidden
**Double-Hidden
***Unlock-All-Others
Clone
Semi-Clone

Mario/Wario/Yoshi Series:
-Mario
-Luigi*
-Wario**
-Peach
-Bowser*
-Yoshi
-Baby Bowser (Yoshi series)**

6 (7)

Donkey Kong Series:
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong*

7.75 (9)

Zelda Series:
-Link
-Zelda/Sheik
-Ganondorf *
Ganondorf is a Semi-Clone of Captain Falcon. He still shares many moves but he's slightly more unique.

11.5 (13)

Kirby Series:
-Kirby
-King DeDeDe*

13.5 (15)

Pokemon Series:
-Pikachu
-Meowth*
-Mewtwo**

16.5 (18)

Star Fox Series:
-Fox
-Wolf*

18 (20)

Single Reps:

-Ness
-Samus
-Marth*
-Mr G&W***
-Captain Falcon

23 (25)

12/13 Starting, compared to Melees 14/15 starting.

It was hard to make this. Sakurai did a fantastic job with Melee.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I really didn't want to follow the rules here, so I based this roster on Sakurai planning on no clones of any kind.

Some notes:
-I removed Luigi for a specific reason (I plan to make a thread about it soon, but this reason will only be a small part)
-Jigglypuff was also removed for a specific reason. (See above on what I plan to do)
-In the case where Sakurai needed representation for the Gameboy, I added Muddy Mole and Prince Sable.
-Franchise representation is only kept to 2.

 

[Arteen]

Added: King Dedede
Removed: Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu

My roster is pretty conservative, as I'm only touching clones. Every other character returns for the same reasons Sakurai added them in the first place.

I drop the two clones Young Link and Dr Mario to make room a new, original character. I put King Dedede, since he was originally planned for Melee (supposedly), but anyone else would work. Pichu is also out, which is enough to promote Ganondorf to non-clone status.

Wacky timelines aside, Dr Mario is just Mario in a doctor's outfit, and Young Link is just a younger Link, so those two characters get dropped as redundant. And Pichu's is literally a weaker form of Pikachu. All of the other clones are actually distinct characters. I like Pichu as a dumb joke character, but that effort is better spent on improving other characters (i.e. decloning Ganondorf).

I don't expect clones to completely go away, as Sakurai clearly likes the occasional clone, so Falco and Roy stay. Both characters provide an interesting twist to their counterpart, and both characters make sense as clones (unlike Ganondorf).

 

[3Bismyname]

hmm ok
Mario
Mario
Peach
Bowser
Luigi*

Zelda
Link
Zelda
Ganandorf*

Kirby
Kirby
King Dedede*

Donkey Kong
DK
Diddy Kong

Yoshi
Yoshi

Starfox
Fox
Falco*

Pokemon
Pikachu
Mew*
Meowth*

Metroid
Samus

Fire Emblem
Marth

Earthbound
Ness*

F-Zero
Captain Falcon*

Wars Series
Grunt*

Retro
Pit*
Mach Rider*
idk if thats good enough for everyone but i do feel that if i was Sakurai i wouldnt have even thought of characters like G&W or Ice Climbers. even though i love them both

 

[Diddy Kong]

Except for the generic Advance Wars grunt, that's an awesome list. Nearly perfect! Would change Mew for Mewtwo though.

Am surprised with how many people are being so conservative here.

Spoiler

And how many people put Ridley in before Diddy. I mean, like, serious? Are these the pre-Brawl days again?

 

[Shun_one]

Except for the generic Advance Wars grunt, that's an awesome list. Nearly perfect!
Am surprised with how many people are being so conservative here.

Spoiler

And how many people put Ridley in before Diddy. I mean, like, serious? Are these the pre-Brawl days again?

Not sure about everyone else, but in my case, most of the choices for Melee were the best possible choices at the time (IMO).

And I go with Ridley over Diddy for the sole idea of Event Match's. I can think of a lot of fun idea's with him in comparison to Diddy, but that's why I'm not in charge of these games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm glad you aren't. Diddy in my opinion was easily one of the best choices they could make for newcomers for Melee. Perhaps only Bowser, Mewtwo, Marth and Ganondorf where more popular / more deserving. Ridley getting into Melee with little to no support prior is just ridiculous.

 

[3Bismyname]

Except for the generic Advance Wars grunt, that's an awesome list. Nearly perfect! Would change Mew for Mewtwo though.

Am surprised with how many people are being so conservative here.

Spoiler

And how many people put Ridley in before Diddy. I mean, like, serious? Are these the pre-Brawl days again?

yeah i chose a grunt just because i felt the series should b repped. but at the time there were no real characters in the series. that wouldnt be till 2001 . and yeah of course Diddy should have gotten in at Melee. his high point was during the N64 era with DK64, Diddy Kong Racing and was supposed to have a new Diddy Kong Racing for the Gamecube back then.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It definitely felt strange not seeing him in Melee. It was my biggest dissapointment in gaming yet. Especially considering how awesome Melee was. And it's also quite weird Diddy suddenly got so many influence on his moveset from DK64 in Brawl.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Perhaps only Bowser, Mewtwo, Marth and Ganondorf where more popular / more deserving.

Not to mention Wario and Dedede, but both of those didn't make it in either. Melee's roster always left me scratching my head, never looked like a Nintendo all-stars roster to me.

 

[3Bismyname]

i can see why he left out Wario, but yeah Dedede should've gotten into Melee. he was totally deserving at the time but i get that Sakurai didnt wanna overrep his series in any way

 

[Dark Phazon]

View attachment 1168

Here is mine, following the rules in this thread.

Changes:

• Decloned Ganondorf
• Removed all the other clones (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Falco, Pichu and Roy)
• Removed Sheik
• Added Diddy Kong, King Dedede and Wolf, the latter having an original moveset

looks at roster doesnt see Ridley sees Wolf....kindly GTFO.

 

[Xhampi]

Wario replace Dr Mario and Pichu
Sukapon replace the Ice Climbers as the retro rep.
King Dedede crush Princess Zelda.
Diddy Kong take the away the slot of Sheik
Meowth instead of Jigglypuff.
Ganondorf kill Roy and get his own moveset.

 

[Shun_one]

Not to mention Wario and Dedede, but both of those didn't make it in either. Melee's roster always left me scratching my head, never looked like a Nintendo all-stars roster to me.

This is the hard part of choosing a Smash Roster, I'd say. Balancing the well known characters with others that are just part of Nintendo's history makes it all pretty difficult. Especially when you factor in trying to come up with the most diverse balance of play-styles.

 

[EddyBearr]

I'm glad you aren't. Diddy in my opinion was easily one of the best choices they could make for newcomers for Melee. Perhaps only Bowser, Mewtwo, Marth and Ganondorf where more popular / more deserving. Ridley getting into Melee with little to no support prior is just ridiculous.

Peach, Zelda, Sheik as well.

Melee was almost a perfect game. @_@ That's why so many folks are being conservative.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I disgress. I feel Zelda and Mario got way too many newcomers in Melee. And one of them could easily be sacrificed for Diddy.

 

[3Bismyname]

I disgress. I feel Zelda and Mario got way too many newcomers in Melee. And one of them could easily be sacrificed for Diddy.

i agree completely. the Mario series could have easily settled on just adding Peach and Bowser without adding Dr.Mario as an obvious clone. while the Zelda series may have been alright without Young Link. the removal of these two as well as Roy and Pichu could have easily led to more work on not only the possibility of making a moveset for a character like Diddy or Dedede or any number of better choices really, but could have also led into making Ganandorf or Falco more unique (cause even though they were clones, they deserved to be in the game more than any of the other clones).

 

[josh bones]

My roster
* means unlockable
Mario Series
Mario
Luigi*
Peach
Bowser
Toad

LoZ
Zelda/shiek
Link
Ganondorf* (less of a clone)
Young Link*

Donkey Kong
Guess who
Diddy Kong*

Kirby
Kirby
MK*

Pokémon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff*
Meowth(That's right!)

Metroid
Samus

Earthbound
Ness*

Fire Emblem
Marth
Roy* (clone)

Star Fox
Fox
Falco* (semi clone)

F-Zero
Captain Falcon*

Retro
G&W*
Ice Climber's

Changes: Cut Dr. Mario
Replaced Pichu for Meowth
Added Toad, and gave peach a better B move

EDIT: Seeing as I had too much, I took out Mewtwo, and won't add him till smash 4

 

[Diddy Kong]

@ The above post: too many characters.

Still not see how people are imagining Diddy as a DK clone. I mean, Diddy burrying people under the ground with Headbut goes a little too far. And Gaint Punch... Not seeing it really.

 

[FalKoopa]

I would love to see Diddy as DK clone. Just for the lulz.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'll give you that Diddy CAN do a varriation of DK's Down B ever since DKCR, but this is the year 2000, it it won't happen

 

[3Bismyname]

Diddy as a DK clone... HOW?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Even after Brawl people are doing this...

 

[josh bones]

@ The above post: too many characters.

Still not see how people are imagining Diddy as a DK clone. I mean, Diddy burrying people under the ground with Headbut goes a little too far. And Gaint Punch... Not seeing it really.

He wouldn't have barrel's or in 2000, and I don't see banana's in melee, so I made him a DK clone

 

[Diddy Kong]

So you mean Donkey Kong 64 was made by Rare after 2000 on the GameCube? News for me.

 

[3Bismyname]

He wouldn't have barrel's or peanut's in 2000, and I don't see banana's in melee, so I made him a DK clone

google DK 64 -.-

 

[josh bones]

He didn't get a jetpack till returns, monkey flip was made up, and banana's that make you trip wouldn't fit in melee. You're right about peanut's though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

He did get the Jetpack in DK64 :/ How else would he got it in Brawl? Returns came after Brawl.

 

[3Bismyname]

He didn't get a jetpack till returns, monkey flip was made up, and banana's that make you trip wouldn't fit in melee. You're right about peanut's though.

he has a jetpack in DK64. and also remember that Returns came out after Brawl so that game had literally no influence on anything Diddy could do in Brawl.

Ninja'd

 

[Diddy Kong]

Now somebody please photoshop Diddy Headbutting Bowser in the ground...?

 

[josh bones]

...I feel like an idiot right now. I still am going to use clone diddy.