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The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (SAKURAAAAAAAAAI!)

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God Robert's Cousin

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I just felt that, with the evidence we had at the time, it was fair enough to consider Viridi dead. The main difference between Ridley and Viridi is that Viridi was mentioned directly by name for being the cause of something on-stage. While Ridley was teased (having never been mentioned by name nor shown the results of his actions), Viridi's name has an especial focus in Sakurai's post, with her halmark Reset Bombs going off the following days later. If I recall correctly, no other stage in the history of Smash Bros. has a case similar to that--a character being the cause (in their game's context) of a stage event. Going off all of that and Viridi having no type of double that could fill in her place left enough of a basis to pronounce her dead. Venturing into "If" or "Could" territory in regards to how the Reset Bomb is called upon and dropped becomes irrelevant.

Even if some details are missing, if reasonable doubt is gone towards someone's death, calling them dead is just that. I wouldn't be murdered if I was listed in the obituaries despite being alive, would I? The exact same applies to characters confirmed or deconfirmed in Smash Bros. We're not the ones killing them off, we're merely the investigators that determine their condition when we find them. Worst case scenario, they're merely MIA and return to us later.

That said, it sounds like we both had a misunderstanding. I'm not here to laugh in people's faces. I'm not here to say that Viridi was ever a bad idea. I'm not here to say you can't feel bad that Viridi isn't playable. All I am saying is that the evidence from before left us with enough probability that pronouncing her dead would be an accurate label, regardless of what the minority says. Viridi's appearance removed any remaining doubt, not confirmed her death. Period. I hope I understand your position on the subject better now that you've specified, as I do hope you understand mine.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Viridi might not even be a stage hazard, she could be like Metal Gear REX on the Shadow Moses Island stage lol.

I don't think Viridi had much going for her in the ways of moveset design either, so this isn't really surprising.
 

stan423321

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Viridi might not even be a stage hazard, she could be like Metal Gear REX on the Shadow Moses Island stage lol.

I don't think Viridi had much going for her in the ways of moveset design either, so this isn't really surprising.
The real obvious part was that you didn't fight her in KI:U, though. I can think only of two other speaking characters in the game sharing that fate, and they both were more or less episodic. The only plausible explanation that I heard for this is that beating little girl alikes is passe to Nintendo no matter what, and this reasoning upholds to SSB4. I think that if this wouldn't apply, though, Sakurai would have no problems giving her a moveset.
 

Hippopotasauce

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Personally I think being a stage is a higher honor than being an assist trophy.
 

nessokman

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I remember there only being one Viridi.
I love this! You all are stereotypical smash bros. Fans! You automatically jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

You people all automatically said "Toon link is on that stage, DECONFIRMED". Then, he was a confirmed to be a returning character. You all realized sakurai made fools out of you and said "Different links" just to make you seem less stupid.

I, for one, kept my mind open KNOWING sakurai could potentially throw us a curve ball.

(This isn't just to you, to whole thread)

Viridi is a goddess, and the full extent of a god/goddess' powers aren't fully known. Especially viridi, as she didn't have a Bawse fight.
 

Banjodorf

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I love this! You all are stereotypical smash bros. Fans! You automatically jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

You people all automatically said "Toon link is on that stage, DECONFIRMED". Then, he was a confirmed to be a returning character. You all realized sakurai made fools out of you and said "Different links" just to make you seem less stupid.

I, for one, kept my mind open KNOWING sakurai could potentially throw us a curve ball.

(This isn't just to you, to whole thread)

Viridi is a goddess, and the full extent of a god/goddess' powers aren't fully known. Especially viridi, as she didn't have a Bawse fight.
Eh...yeah I'm really not sure what to say, but I honestly hope you aren't holding onto the thought that Viridi is playable. Sorry man.
 

acekidgravity

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..................I concede defeat. Viridi is definitely disconfirmed. First Ashley, now Viridi :(
 

PsychoIncarnate

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FINE, you can put her in the grave NOW

But there was no reason to before
 

Flaxr XIII

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I was hoping that Viridi would at least be part of Pit's Final Smash (if Palutena is playable).
It certainly would've ship-teased them some more. :3
Ah well...
 

PsychoIncarnate

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So...



Edit: Do not use the daily pic link, as the image from that link changes with each update.
 
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God Robert's Cousin

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Quoting myself on the Daily Miiverse thread, because I think this is something that should be considered when we decide which characters are "back from the dead".
This has huge implications. Background characters don't exactly deconfirm characters now, apparently.

However, this does not mean being a background character has no significance towards a character's deconfirmation.

Characters that perform an action easily replaced by other characters, like Toon Link driving the train, animal villagers in Smashville, and Shy Guys driving cars, seem to be the notoriety to this new "rule" Sakurai has shown us. Characters essential in performing their actions, such as Yellow Devil's hazard or Viridi summoning her Reset Bombs, however, do not have deconfirmation immunity on part of how they are functionally a part of a stage. That also said, let's not go overboard by interpreting this rule as a way for Assist Trophies and part of movesets to suddenly have a shining ray of hope.

I don't think Ridley would be affected by this in the slighest unless his attack-pattern as a stage hazard happens to be generic enough for another Metroid creature to replace him.
If we have to take any characters out of the graveyard, it should only be Shy Guy on part of how their role is easily replaced by any other generic Mario enemy driving karts, like Koopas. Take Alfonzo with a grain of salt, people. Viridi, Balloon Fighter, Ashley, Skull Kid, Starfy, Toad, and Nintendog do not need to be ripped out of their graves over this.

Not that I think Shy Guys should even be considered back in a blank slate at this point, considering how they essentially fulfill the "substitute character" role in Mario Kart... You know, either them or Mii, and I don't imagine we're willing to bet Shy Guys will be playable over Miis, so...
 

KingofPhantoms

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Yeah, I think only Shy Guy could be affected by this, at the moment no other characters are in a truly similar situation to the one Toon Link was once in, and this only really means Shy Guy isn't 100% disconfirmed, his chance is still very slim. And I'm gonna go ahead and bet no other characters will end up in a such a situation, but we'll see.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Quoting myself on the Daily Miiverse thread, because I think this is something that should be considered when we decide which characters are "back from the dead".

If we have to take any characters out of the graveyard, it should only be Shy Guy on part of how their role is easily replaced by any other generic Mario enemy driving karts, like Koopas. Take Alfonzo with a grain of salt, people. Viridi, Balloon Fighter, Ashley, Skull Kid, Starfy, Toad, and Nintendog do not need to be ripped out of their graves over this.

Not that I think Shy Guys should even be considered back in a blank slate at this point, considering how they essentially fulfill the "substitute character" role in Mario Kart... You know, either them or Mii, and I don't imagine we're willing to bet Shy Guys will be playable over Miis, so...
Toon Link was first shown on the train and he wasn't deconfirmed

I think he just meant that with AT's
 

God Robert's Cousin

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Toon Link was first shown on the train and he wasn't deconfirmed

I think he just meant that with AT's
Toon Link wasn't on the train. Conductor Link was. That's a set of clothing, an arsenal, and 100 years difference apart.

This is only helping my point, actually, considering it's not even the same Link that's being changed in the stage's background.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Toon Link wasn't on the train. Conductor Link was.

This is only helping my point, actually, considering it's not even the same Link that's being changed in the stage's background.
If Sakurai considered Toon Link JUST WW Link, he wouldn't have removed Conductor Link from the stage if Toon Link is played
 

KingofPhantoms

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Unless Sakurai eventually decided it would eventually result in confusion among fans. Based a few past posts here, it caused a bit of confusion prior to that as well.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Unless Sakurai eventually decided it would eventually result in confusion among fans. Based a few past posts here, it caused a bit of confusion prior to that as well.
Up to 4 players can select Toon Link. If you're in Team battle they are even around the same color
 

God Robert's Cousin

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If Sakurai considered Toon Link JUST WW Link, he wouldn't have removed Conductor Link from the stage if Toon Link is played
If that's the case, why does Toon Link have no items found outside of Wind Waker? Surely he would have had something from the at-the-time-recent Phantom Hourglass in Brawl, yes? No Phantom Sword, Lokomo Sword, Bombchu, Hammer, Shovel, Whip... Toon Link is identical to what he'd be between the time he first acquires the Master Sword in Wind Waker and before the entering the Earth Temple.

They are not the same Link, if the graphical difference and outfit wasn't obvious enough. Wanting to avoid having two of the "same" people on screen means nothing towards which incarnation in specific Toon Link is supposed to be.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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If that's the case, why does Toon Link have no items found outside of Wind Waker? Surely he would have had something from the at-the-time-recent Phantom Hourglass in Brawl, yes? No Phantom Sword, Lokomo Sword, Bombchu, Hammer, Shovel, Whip... Toon Link is identical to what he'd be between the time he first acquires the Master Sword in Wind Waker and before the entering the Earth Temple.

They are not the same Link, if the graphical difference and outfit wasn't obvious enough. Wanting to avoid having two of the "same" people on screen means nothing towards which incarnation in specific Toon Link is supposed to be.
He doesn't have any of those fancy items because Sakurai said that Link and Toon Link must have the same specials
 

God Robert's Cousin

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He doesn't have any of those fancy items because Sakurai said that Link and Toon Link must have the same specials
That still doesn't justify aesthetics like the sword he's using (with the Master Sword not being in Phantom Hourglass nor Spirit Tracks), dealing with pigs in two victory taunts (which had only appeared in Wind Waker at the time of Brawl), and, hey, having the goddamn Wind Waker itself. What evidence is there to say Toon Link isn't more specifically based on Wind Waker than any other game in the series?
 
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KingofPhantoms

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Up to 4 players can select Toon Link. If you're in Team battle they are even around the same color
Different circumstances. Everybody can select the same character, just with a varying colors, it'd be easy for everyone to realize they are all playing essentially the same character.

Now what if Ridley was playable and if another Ridley was a stage hazard on the Pyrosphere? It would cause confusion. There are two different Ridleys, the original, and the Other M clone. Not everyone knows that. I would be stunned if those not familiar enough with Metroid would NOT wonder why a character they could use is also present in a stage trying to attack them.

There are two different Toon Links. The WW one, and the ST one. Again, not everybody is familar enough with the franchise to know that. It's not hard to imagine people getting confused as to why a playable character also exists in a stage, albeit, with a different design.
 
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AEMehr

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I love this! You all are stereotypical smash bros. Fans! You automatically jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

You people all automatically said "Toon link is on that stage, DECONFIRMED". Then, he was a confirmed to be a returning character. You all realized sakurai made fools out of you and said "Different links" just to make you seem less stupid.

I, for one, kept my mind open KNOWING sakurai could potentially throw us a curve ball.

(This isn't just to you, to whole thread)

Viridi is a goddess, and the full extent of a god/goddess' powers aren't fully known. Especially viridi, as she didn't have a Bawse fight.
Uh, is this supposed to be insulting or something?
Majority of the userbase still thought Toon Link had a good chance of returning (myself included) so I don't really understand where that first part is coming from.

Viridi wasn't going to be playable anyways, Palutena and Medusa are arguably the only choices that would realistically make the role as playable (Don't kid yourself now by using Toon Link as an example, Viridi has only fought through her army, generals, and Pit. I'd imagine we'd see her actually do something that could translate into a moveset before seeing her as a fighter in Smash).
 

Arcadenik

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Is it time to exhume Toad and move him to the morgue? Toad could be both Peach's B and playable... whenever Toad joins the battle, Toadsworth could replace Toad.
 

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I love this! You all are stereotypical smash bros. Fans! You automatically jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

You people all automatically said "Toon link is on that stage, DECONFIRMED". Then, he was a confirmed to be a returning character. You all realized sakurai made fools out of you and said "Different links" just to make you seem less stupid.

I, for one, kept my mind open KNOWING sakurai could potentially throw us a curve ball.

(This isn't just to you, to whole thread)

Viridi is a goddess, and the full extent of a god/goddess' powers aren't fully known. Especially viridi, as she didn't have a Bawse fight.
There were plenty of people here that said that before he was revealed and I highly doubt Viridi can clone herself. Viridi is pretty much deconfirmed from here on out.
 

Frostwraith

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Toon Link being replaced by Alfonzo on the train makes sense, but let's not go overboard. It kinda reminds me of how the Dream Land N64 stage could have a similar mechanic with Dedede.

Viridi is a crucial stage element, as she drops the Reset Bomb on the stage. If you were to remove her from the stage, who would drop the Reset Bombs?

by that logic so is Ridley
Ridley hasn't been explicitly shown on the Pyrosphere stage, so the hypothesis of Ridley being a playable character isn't out yet.

I do support Ridley, but I acknowledge the fact that he could appear as a stage hazard in Pyrosphere and not as a playable character. (He could still be replaced by Mecha Ridley from Metroid: Zero Mission, but I think that may be a bit of a stretch, but definitely not impossible.)
 

nessokman

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Toon Link being replaced by Alfonzo on the train makes sense, but let's not go overboard. It kinda reminds me of how the Dream Land N64 stage could have a similar mechanic with Dedede.

Viridi is a crucial stage element, as she drops the Reset Bomb on the stage. If you were to remove her from the stage, who would drop the Reset Bombs?


Ridley hasn't been explicitly shown on the Pyrosphere stage, so the hypothesis of Ridley being a playable character isn't out yet.

I do support Ridley, but I acknowledge the fact that he could appear as a stage hazard in Pyrosphere and not as a playable character. (He could still be replaced by Mecha Ridley from Metroid: Zero Mission, but I think that may be a bit of a stretch, but definitely not impossible.)
You people automatically ruled out viridi the second her name was mentioned. Ridley was mentioned there, I don't remember any OTHER of samus' past enemies who appeared on that exact place in other M
 

God Robert's Cousin

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You people automatically ruled out viridi the second her name was mentioned. Ridley was mentioned there, I don't remember any OTHER of samus' past enemies who appeared on that exact place in other M
Ridley was mentioned
Show me where Sakurai said "Ridley" like he said "Viridi, Goddess of Nature".
 

nessokman

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Show me where Sakurai said "Ridley" like he said "Viridi, Goddess of Nature".
tell me what other "enemies from samus' past" appear on the area that stage was based off of. You're struggling to find a reason to not Deconfirm Ridley

We never saw Ridley, now did we?
We hadn't seen viridi but you all rules her out.

Hippocrates doing what they do best
 
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