The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (SAKURAAAAAAAAAI!)

[nessokman]

Oh, I thought you were talking about Viridi not being shown.

Lol misunderstanding

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

tell me what other "enemies from samus' past" appear on the area that stage was based off of. You're struggling to find a reason to not Deconfirm Ridley

We hadn't seen viridi but you all rules her out.

Hippocrates doing what they do best

We ruled Viridi out because she was mentioned, by her full title, to be causing the events of a stage. Sakurai has yet to even mention Ridley even once.

Beyond that, you're forgetting Sakurai is known to put things where they don't belong.

When specific names aren't listed, there's too much interpretation to deconfirm anything. The same can't be said about Viridi, Goddess of Nature.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Oh joy, more bullcrap Ridley arguments from Nessokman!

This argument is at least much better than the time he said Rosalina's reveal lowered Ridley's chances. (though I assume that was just a troll attempt. and I hope I'm right...)

 

[APC99]

It's like this:

If for the Reset Forest reveal, Sakurai stated "Pic of the Day. Here is the Reset Bomb Forest, a new stage! Someone might be behind all of these sudden resets..." people would assume it's Viridi and try to disconfirm her, but no solid information is given.

If for the Pyrosphere reveal, Sakurai stated "Pic of the Day. Here's a new stage, Pyrosphere from Metroid Other M!" Ridley, commander of the space pirates, is ready to destroy his arch-enemy", we'd say Ridley is disconfirmed.

But, there is one thing I'd like to point out: bias. There seems to be quite a bit of it when talking about disconfirmations. Characters with big fanbases like Ridley and Toad are constantly "revived", with all of the fan's time and effort going into showing why they're not disconfirmed. Look at Blue Toad and Captain Toad, supposedly THE Toad, in a different form. Since Peach was shown to use Toad, a lot of people kept holding on to their wants and confusing that with reality, defending the chance of that character playable until the very end, when the final nail is hammered into the coffin, that final nail being Rosalina & Luma. Characters like Viridi, Nintendog and Balloon Fighter, who have a smaller support or aren't liked by the fanbase, are IMMEDIATELY disconfirmed. Even if the same problem befalls the character they're debating.

So, what am I saying? People are saying Villager doesn't disconfirm Little Mac due to the boxing gloves (as many characters have boxing gloves), but the balloons immediately disconfirm Balloon Fighter. Viridi and Ridley are similar as well, up until the former's official disconfirmation. It's purely bias.

And, on the note of the Toon Link/Alfonzo information, I believe that mostly EVERY character is still in the Graveyard, even though this new rule is present. Skull Kid, Ashley, Starfy and Nintendog are still Assist Trophies. Viridi is still a major important focus of the Reset Bomb Forest.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

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I think there's bias involved, but I do have to question your willingness to pin it on everybody.

Here we have 8 characters deconfirmed. Ashley, Skull Kid, Starfy, and Nintendog are dead--nobody's arguing against that now. That leaves the moveset-dead Balloon Fighter and Toad, and the stage-dead Viridi and Shy Guy.

Frankly, I'm in agreement about the moveset-based deconfirmation bias. Toad is deconfirmed, whether his vastly-larger-than-Balloon Fighter-fanbase agrees with it or not, as he's a permanent part of the SSB4 website as one of Peach's moves.
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While I don't agree with Toad's fanbase that Toad remotely has a chance, I can at least understand the argument for Captain Toad in that it is not necessarily the same Toad Peach is holding. Biased and not going to happen, but a reasonable straw to grasp.

Balloon Fighter, on the other hand, has no other variant to go to. What I mean by that is that Balloon Fighter is exactly one character: a man who flies around in a flapping motion with two red balloons floating over his head. Being from only one game over 25 years ago, there is little else that makes up Balloon Fighter. When a confirmed character does exactly all of that in one move, with every detail appearing the same as Balloon Fighter's helmet, it makes it pretty clear that Balloon Fighter is deconfirmed.

That said, that possibly explains the same in Ridley. If not for the fact that there isn't a picture of Ridley yet in the first place, Ridley's various incarnations of Super Metroid Ridley, Mecha-Ridley, Meta Ridley, and Other M Ridley (and its metamorphosing development) stands in with the type of substitution Toad and Balloon Fighter lack. The latter point said, the lack of any shown Ridley is why he's not deconfirmed yet compared to the first two and Shy Guy. Viridi, meanwhile, lacked her own possible substitute in addition to being fully addressed by her full title, not implied like Ridley.

So while I can understand how you see the bias towards some characters, the bias doesn't help to produce the better justifications, but rather the other way around, the justifications help to produce to the bias... I hope that makes sense.

 

[Arcadenik]

..................I concede defeat. Viridi is definitely disconfirmed. First Ashley, now Viridi

I think we can safely assume all lolis are deconfirmed... no Ashley, no Viridi, no Lip, no Alice the Balloon Kid, no Kumatora, no Toon Zelda (Phantom says hi), etc.

 

[Gunla]

I think we can safely assume all lolis are deconfirmed... no Ashley, no Viridi, no Lip, no Alice the Balloon Kid, no Kumatora, no Toon Zelda (Phantom says hi), etc.

If Fighting Game Characters weren't already smacked down, I'm pretty sure THIS loli [Rachel Alucard] would be fun as hell to play.

Spoiler

 

[Curious Villager]

I think we can safely assume all lolis are deconfirmed... no Ashley, no Viridi, no Lip, no Alice the Balloon Kid, no Kumatora, no Toon Zelda (Phantom says hi), etc.

So we won't be getting the female Villager as an alt for Villager huh? Ah well.

 

[SilentKnight96]

So we won't be getting the female Villager as an alt for Villager huh? Ah well.

Villager =/= loli.

If anything, Villager = chibi.

 

[Curious Villager]

Villager =/= loli.

If anything, Villager = chibi.

If anything, their mostly just young girls along with female Villager. (Not sure how old Kumatora is though and don't get me started on Viridi...)

 

[Opossum]

Beyond that, you're forgetting Sakurai is known to put things where they don't belong.

To drive the point home.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

I agree with everyone of you!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

(Not sure how old Kumatora is though and don't get me started on Viridi...)

Kumatora is actually 16 years old iirc, fairly certain she doesn't classify as a "loli".

 

[Curious Villager]

Kumatora is actually 16 years old iirc, fairly certain she doesn't classify as a "loli".

Oh I didn't know that. Also now that I look more into it, Sakurai stated that Viridi is 8 years old when converted from the human body. Still not sure how old she really is though but ah well. :/

 

[Jumpman84]

[collapse="This is on Peach's profile, not a picture-of-the-day. This picture is never going away, period."]

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[collapse="This is on Link's profile, not a picture-of-the-day. This picture is never going away, period."]

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Needless to say, this is not a good argument to make.

 

[APC99]

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Needless to say, this is not a good argument to make.

The difference is that it's a stage element, and can change depending on whether or not Toon Link is on. Moves don't change depending on which character is present.

 

[Jumpman84]

The difference is that it's a stage element, and can change depending on whether or not Toon Link is on. Moves don't change depending on which character is present.

But stage elements have never been changed in this way prior to this game. Who's to say moves can't also change in this manner?

 

[APC99]

But stage elements have never been changed in this way prior to this game. Who's to say moves can't also change in this manner?

I'd say it's too early to tell... Only time will tell us...

 

[Jumpman84]

I'd say it's too early to tell... Only time will tell us...

That's true. Still, this pic of the day was a clear message from Sakurai: Assume nothing. If he can swap out a stage element if a certain character shows up, he can do an NPC swap for the same reason.

I'm not saying that Toad is definitely in. I'm saying that being an NPC is no longer a definitive reason to be disconfirmed.

 

[Gunla]

I'd say it's too early to tell... Only time will tell us...

COUGH COUGH TRON BONNE IN MVC3

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

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Needless to say, this is not a good argument to make.

That's a rather moot example when this picture showcases a stage more-so than a character. Toad was shown on Peach's moveset. Conductor Link is not on Link's moveset.

 

[RelaxAlax]

I all but given up on Toad. If he's in I honestly give up on predicting anything for this game anymore.

The argument for Toad existing as a fighter and move can stand, but it's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Yo, Toad fan here. One of the most vocal Toad fans on these boards. (Probably.)

I'm honestly surprised you guys are saying you've seen a lot of Toad Brigade members who are still claiming he can be a playable. The majority of his supporters gave up expecting Toad for good when Rosalina was revealed.

His thread does get revived, but it's usually to discuss things Toad related, post some movesets for fun or discuss Toad's increase in appearance in the Mario games.
Granted there's the odd crackpot theory, but for the most part these Toad fans are being sensible about this now. We just needed a clearer cut deconfirmation like Skull Kid rather than a picture and then a comment saying "Peach's moveset will be revised before release so her pictures here may not reflect the final product".

 

[Arcadenik]

The difference is that it's a stage element, and can change depending on whether or not Toon Link is on. Moves don't change depending on which character is present.

You don't know that for certain. I don't know that either!

Also, Kirby's copy ability changes depending on which characters are present available.

 

[lordvaati]

COUGH COUGH TRON BONNE IN MVC3

And Martian Man hunter in Injustice....

 

[Arcadenik]

Yo, Toad fan here. One of the most vocal Toad fans on these boards. (Probably.)

I'm honestly surprised you guys are saying you've seen a lot of Toad Brigade members who are still claiming he can be a playable. The majority of his supporters gave up expecting Toad for good when Rosalina was revealed.

His thread does get revived, but it's usually to discuss things Toad related, post some movesets for fun or discuss Toad's increase in appearance in the Mario games.
Granted there's the odd crackpot theory, but for the most part these Toad fans are being sensible about this now. We just needed a clearer cut deconfirmation like Skull Kid rather than a picture and then a comment saying "Peach's moveset will be revised before release so her pictures here may not reflect the final product".

I blame Sakurai for instilling false hope in us with that comment. Was it really necessary to point that out if he was never going to refresh Peach's moves besides that ribbon move in the first place?

 

[APC99]

Yo, Toad fan here. One of the most vocal Toad fans on these boards. (Probably.)

I'm honestly surprised you guys are saying you've seen a lot of Toad Brigade members who are still claiming he can be a playable. The majority of his supporters gave up expecting Toad for good when Rosalina was revealed.

His thread does get revived, but it's usually to discuss things Toad related, post some movesets for fun or discuss Toad's increase in appearance in the Mario games.
Granted there's the odd crackpot theory, but for the most part these Toad fans are being sensible about this now. We just needed a clearer cut deconfirmation like Skull Kid rather than a picture and then a comment saying "Peach's moveset will be revised before release so her pictures here may not reflect the final product".

I'm a HUGE Toad supporter, before Rosalina came and dazzled me with a unique puppet playstyle, I was against all other Mario characters besides Toad and Waluigi. In this thread, I even stated it would be a dream come true to "dig graves" for Rosalina and Bowser Junior. Man, I was an a**, wasn't I? But, I think the main reason the Toad Brigade is still brought up is because of the several theories which followed after Peach's initial reveal up to Rosalina's reveal, mainly being with Blue Toad, Captain Toad, Toadsworth, Yellow Toad, a lot of ways people were grasping onto hoping that they'd still see Toad. It's like if we saw Pikachu deconfirmed, but everybody claimed it was Ash's Pikachu, and that Red's Pikachu could still get in. That is, of course, a more EXTREME case, as there are differences between the Toads, but my point still stands.

 

[Luigi#1]

Comparing Toon Link and Toad is ridiculous. Toad is in a move of Peaches that affects players and projectiles. Conductor Toon Link literally doesn't seem to affect any thing in any way.

 

[SmashShadow]

You mentioned pits final smash... In smash 4 pit lost his mirror shield(which is a sacred treasure) and got the guardian orbitars.
In brawl pit screams "all troops move out" while palutena appears in the background through an 2d astral image for pits final smash. So people said that pits new final smash could be the 3 sacred treasures( MIRROR SHIELD, arrows of light and Wings of Pegasus) therefore palutena could be a new character or AT and may not be apart of pits final smash.

Fixed.
The Wings of Pegasus grant unlimited flight and were the basis for his up special in brawl called the Wings of Icarus (there is no item titled this in the games). Also, with Pit's up special looking as if it changed in how it works, it might actually be the Power of Flight instead of wings of Icarus which would give more indication that his final smash might have been changed to the Three Sacred Treasures.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Beyond that, you're forgetting Sakurai is known to put things where they don't belong.

To be fair...Ultimate Chimera in the Empire Porky Building bathrooms.

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[God Robert's Cousin]

To be fair...Ultimate Chimera in the Empire Porky Building bathrooms.

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Inside a bathroom dungeon.

Very high in the tower.

Meaning not suddenly poofing into the outskirts of New Pork City.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Inside a bathroom dungeon.

Very high in the tower.

Meaning not suddenly poofing into the outskirts of New Pork City.

Of course, but it did make one appearance in the general area at least, in comparison with Cresselia, who had absolutely nothing to do with Mt. Coronet.

Not trying to argue. Just saying.

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[SmasherMaster]

I'm a HUGE Toad supporter, before Rosalina came and dazzled me with a unique puppet playstyle, I was against all other Mario characters besides Toad and Waluigi. In this thread, I even stated it would be a dream come true to "dig graves" for Rosalina and Bowser Junior. Man, I was an a**, wasn't I? But, I think the main reason the Toad Brigade is still brought up is because of the several theories which followed after Peach's initial reveal up to Rosalina's reveal, mainly being with Blue Toad, Captain Toad, Toadsworth, Toadbert, Toadette and Yellow Toad, a lot of ways people were grasping onto hoping that they'd still see Toad. It's like if we saw Pikachu deconfirmed, but everybody claimed it was Ash's Pikachu, and that Red's Pikachu could still get in. That is, of course, a more EXTREME case, as there are differences between the Toads, but my point still stands.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Gunla]

Of course, but it did make one appearance in the general area at least, in comparison with Cresselia, who had absolutely nothing to do with Mt. Coronet.
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Seriously, why was she there?

 

[soviet prince]

I would not have minded toad getting in, believe it or not he is imp to the mario frans

 

[Deleted member]

I blame Sakurai for instilling false hope in us with that comment. Was it really necessary to point that out if he was never going to refresh Peach's moves besides that ribbon move in the first place?

You only have yourself to blame for misinterpreting what was being said.
I've tried to point it out to you, but noooooooooo. You just had to keep going down that one river in Egypt.

 

[Arcadenik]

So... Sakurai revealed the 3DS Kid Icarus stage and specifically named Viridi... BOOM... stage hazard... Sakurai revealed the Wii U Kid Icarus stage but didn't specifically name Palutena... hmmm... just like how Sakurai didn't specifically name Ridley when he revealed the Pyrosphere stage...

 

[Deleted member]

So... Sakurai revealed the 3DS Kid Icarus stage and specifically named Viridi... BOOM... stage hazard... Sakurai revealed the Wii U Kid Icarus stage but didn't specifically name Palutena... hmmm... just like how Sakurai didn't specifically name Ridley when he revealed the Pyrosphere stage...

The Palutena statue doesn't disconfirm Palutena. It's just a statue, it's not like it will do any harm to her. It's not like the statue is a part of the stage the same way Viridi is with the Reset Bomb stage. The statue isn't a stage hazard like the Shy Guys nor a stage element like Viridi.

I wonder how many secrets Sakurai is keeping from us.

 

[Gunla]

The Palutena statue doesn't disconfirm Palutena. It's just a statue, it's not like it will do any harm to her. It's not like the statue is a part of the stage the same way Viridi is with the Reset Bomb stage.

I wonder how many secrets Sakurai is keeping from us.

One's an actual person.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I want people to keep in mind that what we're seeing is just a statue of Palutena. She is not deconfirmed, until we see her in person.