The good and bad characters at this point (cast spoilers)

[Cronos_Rainbow]

All of the space animals are good. Fox isn't the same character he was in melee though. Bair shine game isn't much of an option as bair is slower to come out. Waveshine is a thing of the past too. It will be interesting to see how Fox develops.

Lucario is better 1v1 than FFA or teams. So far the stages deemed neutral aren't much for walls. It's great that his UpB can arch, but the time it takes to get started compared to the distance traveled and how much you can do out of it doesn't make it one of the better recoveries.

 

[dinhotheone]

are you dumb? wheres diddy? have you played the game? this is a terrible topic.

 

[Doomgaze]

Some impressions so far about newcomers (subject to change, however):

Pit: Has it all. The best recovery, normal weight, a reliable projectile, an anti-projectile, and still pretty strong moves. Dunno what to add, Pit just owns. Good candidate for a high tier character.

Sonic: Boring special moves that are really weak. In general his speed is awesome and smash out of a dash is possible. His ground mobility is unmatched. Air Down+A reminds of Captain Falcon's Air down+B in melee.

Snake: Pretty powerful A-attacks. Comes with quite a bit of lag which I guess is awkward to handle in 1on1. In FFA he is a BEAST because of his mines, which have really good knockback and are very hard to see. His recovery is a ***** to deal with.. A parachute carries him really far vertically and most attacks don't cause him to flinch or knock back during this animation.

Ike: Also a beast when it comes to FFA. More lag than bowser but he can KO out of any move basically. Doesn't have as bad recovery as one would think. His up+b reaces pretty far, vertically, and like everything else, autograbs the edge.

Meta Knight: This is the char I've been playing the most. Some cool moves but has a hard time KOing stuff. The sword is OK for priority but nothing against the real sword users. Fast and good combo. Pretty darn good recovery. Overall a lacking character. Can't deal with projectiles effectively, doesn't have one himself and his Dimensional Cape is crap.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Yeah thanks Dinhotheone for proving your mental age xD.
Doomgaze - I agree on everything you've put there

 

[Suntan Luigi]

<3 shaz

10 chars

 

[Toadster5]

What about Donkey Kong? I haven't heard anything about him.

 

[sultanofsurreal]

What's the word on springboard jumping? I haven't seen it used much if at all in the videos I've seen. Is it a good stand-in as a dair spike for characters who lack them or is it too hard to perform practically?

And how's Wario looking so far?

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Donkey is largely similar. His uairs still work and throwing up can set up for them. His giant punch can start killing from around 90%ish generally. forward B is nice, sticking them in the ground allowing for a free smash (actually sends them flying this time around)...small hits like down tilt don't send them so you can rack damage up. UpB is pretty powerful for damage. DK is good for SSE :D

Umm you mean jumping on their heads? If so yeah its good. Hardish to do. Have to be just above them then smash up. Works well however, and will likely become a cheap way to kill some characters xD. You gain a lot of height from it if they're grounded.

Wario is strange in his movement (think game and watch). He has a lot of aerial mobility and seems like a Jigglypuff wannabe with only one aerial jump. His UpB isn't that large. The Wario waft is a nice trump card and works well to clear someone off of you when the heats is on.

 

[Dokuro]

Has Ness changed any?

 

[-Knux-]

I noticed that you said some good stuff about Wolf. How are his throws? Do any of them set up any good combos? How are his tilts? I noticed his up tilt sent Falco flying in one of the videos.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Ness is mostly unchanged - though something major that did change is his ability to spam the heck out of bair, which is still a mighty force.

Wolfs throws are up: - think Fox. Down and forward - different animation similar result: leads into a dash attack or another grab. Dash attack is basically a low percent Fox up smash xD. back throw leads well into edge guarding bairs. Wolf is too good xD

 

[AlbinoMonk]

All this information is great! Keep it up :D

One question: how fast can olimar spam the whistle (down B)? I would think it's near instant but I haven't seen anyone using it more than once. It'd be very useful to be able to swap pikmin order like four times during a shorthop, as I'm sure you know

 

[sHy)(gUy]

i kno its eary but tier list predicions? no complaing, im just curious to see what someone whos played the game would say

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

The whistle like the plucking is very fast.

Tier prediction....I can't exactly say this early, though
Marth, Lucas, Pit, Wolf, Falco, ZSS, Olimar are all probably well up there.
Ike, PT, Mario, Diddy, Zelda, Fox, Robot, Link, Puff, Peach, Samus
Luigi, DK, Falcon, Sonic, Ness, Wario, GW, Snake. Kirby, Climbers, Lucario, Gdorf, Metaknight
Dedede, Bowser IMO kinda fail slightly xD

Obviously a whole lot more playing to be done before I can say this is anywhere near factual....but its a feel at least.

 

[Thinkaman]

Interesting, this one might be more of an opinion, but what do you think of walk-off edges in Brawl? I mean, it was rightfully one of the major reasons we banned stages in melee, but the waveshine being out takes away the largest flaw. With your experience on Brawl stages, do you foresee walk-off edges being highly undesirable again?

While I'm asking for stage opinions, what do you think of stages like Bridge of Elden and Spear Pillar as far as competitive play goes: the stages have interference that is hardly subtle, though far from the main attraction like Wario Ware. However, in videos it seems these interruptions are very obviously forecast, easy to dodge, and ultimately non-threatening... What do you think of them?

 

[Flyingmonkey]

Any Luigi impressions?

 

[Yomon]

I'm very happy to see that Lucas is up there with Marth currently!

I'm a big fan of the MOTHER series and I've been using Ness in Melee even though he's not very high on the tier list.

How is Lucas in terms of Lag? How are his air moves and could you explain them?

Oh, and I'm glad to hear that Jigg was unchanged, she/he is my secondary in Melee :D

 

[Midnight_Ang3l]

Anything on Diddy Kong? He looks like he kills lol! I think he secretly looks like a good character. I will prolly just stick with Link.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I would have to agree on most of the points although I think Snake will have a lot of potential if people learn how to use him. His dash a is a great attack and is good for escaping or entering a battle.

Also his stinger missile is really good for playing mind games and even starting combos. I started canceling it just in time for the missile to have enough inertia to land in front of somebody and because I cancelled it I have time to get get in and start a combo after the explosion. His Uair is also a really good kill move.

I am currently trying to work on Sonic, Snake, and Pit. Marth is pretty similar to melee and was my main then so I'm still alright with him.

My friend is taking olimar as his main I believe and he is a monster. A really fun character to use.

It's going to be hard picking a main this time around. heh

 

[TheJalapeno]

What attack from Ike has the most range? His F-Tilt?

I just want to know how to get spacing with him.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Well his over B is great to use for closing in of course. His three combo is also good as the last hit has decent range and you move forward with the moves.

But yeah his f-tilt and his f-smash are both good for people in front.

 

[SinisterLizard]

I hate threads like this. I'm just gonna play the game...

tiers don exists!! 1one

 

[RegalBuster]

After a few days of playing and having all characters unlocked I'm going to give a short impression on how I feel the characters stack up so far. I won't bother with everyone, though if I feel something needs mention I'll do so.
*Note this analysis is from a competitive players point of view - so think no item stock match*

GREAT
Marth (owning in one game wasn't enough for this guy it seems)
Lucas
Pit
Zero Suit Samus

VERY GOOD
Ike
Olimar
Pokemon Trainer
Falco
Wolf

DISAPPOINTING
Lucario
Dedede

This is how I feel it stands at the current skill level my friends and I have. After playing competitively throughout the life of Melee the new feel is obviously something to get used to.

Some character notes:

Yoshi: Considerably fast in comparison to the rest of the cast. The lack of DJC seems to work against him however. UpB giving some height is both good and bad depending on how you intend to use it.

Fox: Fair is well and truly worth giving a go. Shine is much less fruitful. Bair requires some precision to use now.

Peach: Balanced - I don't think more needs to be said.

Pikachu: Short hopped airs are only worth doing with some characters in this game due to lag you just can't seem to remove. Pikachu seems to have come out last in this race. Bair is multihit and good on a fulljump.

Link: Nair, fair and bair have virtually no lag and work great in short hop situations. Landing killing blows with Link is somewhat difficult, but not at all impossible.

Lucas: Every move is awesome. His psi-magnet is held out infront of him, and when released if inside an opponent serves as an attack somewhat in the realm of a shine hit, though more horizontal. Great combo ability, improved grab range on Ness and overall awesome character.

Marth: Almost exactly as he was in melee. Shield breaker is better at its namesake, and Marvelous combination is faster. Broken so far xD.

Lucario: Takes a lot of work to do well with. He has a counter which serves well when coupled with his projectile, but overall his startup delay is hard to look past when coupled with his mediocre recovery.

Ike: STRONG. His recovery is very good unless he finds himself knocked diagonally downward....though most moves don't do this in Brawl. Forward B when charged has some crazy return ability. Out of the screen? No worries - he makes it with distance to spare. Landing a killing blow is rather difficult once the percent gets up there at first. Upsmash seems the most useful of his smash attacks.

Metaknight: Very good but something feels lacking for the moment. Recovery-wise he has 3 good options, and one other in downB thats short ranged.

Pikmin and Olimar: Played well this is a heck of a character. Damage racks up insanely fast, and the fat purple pikmin have a staggering amount of KO potential even at low percents. Recovery is not the most dependable.

Pit: Great recovery, spammable projectile and a reflecting move all on top of a good ground and air A game. His short hop game isn't the best however, and kills are mainly gained through around 3 moves.

Snake: Totally unorthodox. It'll take some time and getting used to before this guy can be even roughly measured. The fact he requires a lot of setting up to really shine leaves me thinking he's no place in the topmost echelon though.

I hope this is somewhat useful to people. If anyone has questions feel free to ask.

Lucario...and...Dedede...dissapointing?

Are you stupid!?

 

[BoG]

could you describe what is meant by snake having a lot of setup to be good in 1v1? Anymore description on snake would be great, I really am excited to use him. Would you say it's possible that no one has the hang of him, or his true potential has yet to be seen?
Also, Olimar seems to be getting rave reviews, something I'm really excited for, but I'd also like some description on his smashes, as I've heard nothing on them.
Also, Wario. I want to know about him.

Thanks for the awesome info so far... someone needs to compile all this.

 

[Zink]

lucario is way good, not to go into detail but he has a broken dsmash, among other things.

 

[SolidSonic]

S

Snake: Pretty powerful A-attacks. Comes with quite a bit of lag which I guess is awkward to handle in 1on1. In FFA he is a BEAST because of his mines, which have really good knockback and are very hard to see. His recovery is a ***** to deal with.. A parachute carries him really far vertically and most attacks don't cause him to flinch or knock back during this animation.

A beast you say?

 

[MajinNecro69]

What's the news on Ganondorf? Is he better or worse than in Melee?

Also, let's say items WERE legal in Brawl (since it seems explosive crates can be turned off). WOULD Smash Balls be legalized? What about any other items?

 

[Kirby Redux]

can you put Kirby in a category? Is he middle, or still low? I heard he was actually a lot different, being more heavy, and harder to KO at lower percentages.

 

[seshun]

ppl don't worry about your characters being bagged on. Everyone has a different opinion on characters, so if they say they suck then your just going to have to prove them wrong. I'm sure going to have fun when im kicking *** with characters people say that are bad...i was prone to doing that in melee a lot lmao

 

[Nicktendo]

If you cancel Dededes up b as your going to the ledge can he grab it?

Dedede wasnt that good?

 

[BudokaiMR2]

can you put Kirby in a category? Is he middle, or still low? I heard he was actually a lot different, being more heavy, and harder to KO at lower percentages.

My friend was playing Kirby for a bit and I definitely think he is better this time around. He seems basically the same, but he is a lot harder to kill this time until he is at a high percentage. It was kind of annoying because I'm used to sending him flying easily ;p

 

[Masque]

Wow...good things to say about my three mains (Lucas, Peach, Pit). Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[UltiMario]

From the vids Ive seen, Lucario is beast. All his attacks are broken. Some probably have Disjointed hitboxes. And he gets F***ing stronger as he gets hurt!
Only MK can be better than that

 

[Nicktendo]

Can you go into a bit more depth as too why Dedede is bad?

 

[DeuceBlade]

Can you go into a bit more depth as too why Dedede is bad?

It doesn't really matter... everyone thought marth/roy were lame when they were first played.. but obviously that is not true... in fact Marth is still broken...

 

[Fernie812]

Do you happen to know what the Duster Assist Trophy does?

 

[TaurToph]

So... do you think Toon Link have a chance of being top tier?

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Shaz I hope your not crying because roy's not in melee

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Lucario...and...Dedede...dissapointing?

Are you stupid!?

Or maybe you should chill out with the grade school insults for not reading the rest of the thread where he says they're not bad characters, just not what he expected.

Not what he expected of them = him being disappointed.

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

OK a lot to catch up on here - hopefully I don't miss too much :S

Firstly thanks Alpha for being champ

Toon Link is fast and damaging. He's very similar to Young Link from melee.....if you enjoyed him then you will likely enjoy Toon.

Duster...not sure which one that is sorry xO. Describe him or link a pic and I'll do my best .

Dedede lags a lot. His recovery is fairly bad - with his UpB needing to be cancelled to actually grab the edge. Practise on the timing will help leave you less vulnerable I'm sure. Only one type of minion does any notable damage and knockback. He's not useless at all....just seems less crazy than the others.....balance-wise this game is very well done.

Lucario is decent at combo, and has projectile and counter like I mentioned. His potential is clearly there but in terms of a character that's easy to use and not limited in it's playstyle this isn't him.

Kirby is largely the same like I mentioned. He fits in balance-wise more than he used to - with a bit more longivity and more of his moves being useful. His throws don't seem to be easily escaped for instance.

I mained Roy in Melee despite what people thought of him tier-wise. What I'm saying isn't what you should decide to live by, just a taste of how the game feels.

Ganondorfs strength is higher, with his A even being a kill move. His combo potential is down with his dair lagging a lot on landing, his forB being a grab and not a set-up etc. He and Falcon both can't act out of their downB in the air.

Smash balls are insanely imbalanced. Pikachus FS is pretty lame...hard to control and not much of a killer. Super Sonic is very similar though easier to control and more damaging - not to mention it lasts for ages. I wouldn't imagine Smash balls being legalised in tournament. A characters ability to obtain them is another reason why.

Ike forward tilt and forward smash have the most range to his front. Bair has a lot of range behind him and is one of if not his fastest move.

Olimar is incredibly powerful. He can deal a potential 185% over the span of only around 5 seconds by damage over time pikmin. Purple pikmin are like stitchfaces that can be used as any of a handful of smashes and aerials. As far as forward smashes go Olimar has one of if not the best range along with ZSS followed by Ike, Wolf and a few others.

Yes I miss Roy.