Social The Gates of Hell: Bayonetta Social Thread

[Devil May Plop]

Guess who finally just got Corrin and Bayonetta!

 

[Sensane]

Hello all, So I never liked Sm4sh much before, and Was not really attracted to the game either, but then bayo came, I tried her, and I got bewitched by how she plays. Needless to say im psyched to play this character more and it has atracted me to sm4sh.

I guess now you know "witch" character you like. Eh? EH?

 

[pikazz]

nothing is more satifying to kill a sheik with not only one death combo, but 2 death combos <3

 

[Astra Waifucon]

Also I did outline that her non-jab, ftilt and smash moves are all fast.

 

[Lorde]

But her other moves aren't fast

Her fastest move is literally frame 7

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think with Bayonetta's frame data there's an important distinction to be made IMO.

I don't think it's overall bad. I think it's sort of fragmented. Her STARTUP is bad but her recovery time isn't really abysmal outside of Smashes obv. from my experience. Obviously bad startup is a problem and a flaw, won't deny that like, at all.

It leads me to classify it more as "slow startup" than bad frame data perse. Not like say, Shulk or the like where it is both slow and also laggy.

 

[Vinje]

But her other moves aren't fast

Her fastest move is literally frame 7

Actually that's wrong, her fastest move is frame 4 (Witch Twist).

 

[Lorde]

Actually that's wrong, her fastest move is frame 4 (Witch Twist).

I guess I should have specified non-specials but w/e

Fastest aerial is frame 7
Fastest normal is frame 7
Witch twist is a kind of a saving grace for her, but its range is kinda lacking

Regardless, her start up is still pretty abysmal

 

[FullMoon]

Considering the two characters I play I guess I'm just drawn to combo characters with slow startup on their moves lol.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

But her other moves aren't fast

Her fastest move is literally frame 7

She doesn't care though with er safe on shield moves, amount of combo starters, bullets and WT.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Considering the two characters I play I guess I'm just drawn to combo characters with slow startup on their moves lol.

I think even Bayonetta feels more normal to me than Greninja

I just have no idea wtf to do with Greninja at all, he exists purely as this Japanese Vine combo character to me.

 

[Vinje]

I guess I should have specified non-specials but w/e

Fastest aerial is frame 7
Fastest normal is frame 7
Witch twist is a kind of a saving grace for her, but its range is kinda lacking

Regardless, her start up is still pretty abysmal

Well in that aspect, you're right.
But the startup is meant to balance her out, if Bayonetta had Shiek's frame than she'd be broken or top tier for sure.

 

[FullMoon]

I think even Bayonetta feels more normal to me than Greninja

I just have no idea wtf to do with Greninja at all, he exists purely as this Japanese Vine combo character to me.

Greninja is very unorthodox so yeah I'm not surprised lol.

Both characters are pretty fancy considering Greninja can do stuff like this

 

[Ffamran]

Meanwhile, in KoF XIII where the fastest move if I remember correctly is either frame 4 or 5 for a jab / light punch. Frame 9 jab would still be slow in that game, but not as slow in this game. Also, I believe that no jab should be slower than frame 7. Seriously, Zelda... Also, Ganondorf's pitifully weak, wannabe Ganondorf Ftilt.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Welp went to my first tournament as all Bayonetta. I got bodied for not knowing the MUs. I lost to a Marth & TL. The TL I SD'd though lol & missed my WT punish vs Marth. Also the craziest thing happened in WT. The TL player got caught by it but somehow he was able to instantly airdodge & it lasted for a looonngg time in slow-mo like the timer clock & my game-winning upsmash missed >_<

 

[Lorde]

She doesn't care though with her safe on shield moves, amount of combo starters, bullets and WT.

You cannot just ignore frame data lol.

Every character cares about it to some degree, and Bayonetta is no exception.

Her start-up is bad, and that's definitely an issue she has to deal with. It was one of the things she was balanced around lol.

Bayonetta definitely has significant strengths, but she's not flawless.

This goes to all of you: don't be the Rosalina boards and think your main is some invincible and unbeatable character. I can't stress this enough, but be realistic. The Bayo boards will become a joke is everyone says, "Bayo is the best look at all her combos she has no flaws lol what is frame data to her."

Also, what moves are safe in shield? Downwards ABK and maybe spaced nair, uair, and bair? That's not that great.

 

[Otterz]

Her smashes shield stun is absolute garbage.

Characters that can take advantage of our frame data will probably end up being the toughest MUs.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Also, what moves are safe in shield? Downwards ABK and maybe spaced nair, uair, and bair? That's not that great

That's more than what a lot of other characters have, to be fair.

I agree with what you're getting at for the rest, though. Humility goes a long way.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

You cannot just ignore frame data lol.

Every character cares about it to some degree, and Bayonetta is no exception.

Her start-up is bad, and that's definitely an issue she has to deal with. It was one of the things she was balanced around lol.

Bayonetta definitely has significant strengths, but she's not flawless.

This goes to all of you: don't be the Rosalina boards and think your main is some invincible and unbeatable character. I can't stress this enough, but be realistic. The Bayo boards will become a joke is everyone says, "Bayo is the best look at all her combos she has no flaws lol what is frame data to her."

Also, what moves are safe in shield? Downwards ABK and maybe spaced nair, uair, and bair? That's not that great.

Yes that is ****ing great. I still remember people being butthurt over ZSS' on shield options and all she has are nAir, uAir (that still anyone barely uses for some stupid reason) and zAir, and the first two are only safe because of her jab or with very good spacing. Bayonetta has bAir, dABK and nAir if used right. The first two lead into stupid good combos and the last one eats airdodges so hard even Ikes uAir gets jelly. Her dTilt is also quite amazing and her sSpecial is one of the better zone breakers in the game, plus one hell of a long range punish.
She really doesn't care too much about her frame data.

 

[Volga]

You cannot just ignore frame data lol.

Every character cares about it to some degree, and Bayonetta is no exception.

Her start-up is bad, and that's definitely an issue she has to deal with. It was one of the things she was balanced around lol.

Bayonetta definitely has significant strengths, but she's not flawless.

This goes to all of you: don't be the Rosalina boards and think your main is some invincible and unbeatable character. I can't stress this enough, but be realistic. The Bayo boards will become a joke is everyone says, "Bayo is the best look at all her combos she has no flaws lol what is frame data to her."

Also, what moves are safe in shield? Downwards ABK and maybe spaced nair, uair, and bair? That's not that great.

True True.
Its a lot better then what i usually work with though.
Side B offstage?
More like,Side B onstage,with extra credit!

not that i side B with mac offstage now.

 

[Lorde]

She really doesn't care too much about her frame data.

It seems you have missed the point of my post. I suggest you re-read it.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

It seems you have missed the point of my post. I suggest you re-read it.

I don't see it

 

[Lorde]

I don't see it

Wow look at that sass

I'll quote it for you:

You cannot just ignore frame data lol.

Every character cares about it to some degree, and Bayonetta is no exception.

Her start-up is bad, and that's definitely an issue she has to deal with. It was one of the things she was balanced around lol.

 

[David Viran]

This goes to all of you: don't be the Rosalina boards and think your main is some invincible and unbeatable character. I can't stress this enough, but be realistic. The Bayo boards will become a joke is everyone says, "Bayo is the best look at all her combos she has no flaws lol what is frame data to her."

Every Rosa I've seen has said she's bad and some have gone as far to say she should be buffed.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Wow look at that sass

I'll quote it for you:

Sorry, I can't hear my bad frame data over all those fabulous specials and gun arts

 

[Lorde]

Every Rosa I've seen has said she's bad and some have gone as far to say she should be buffed.

You're not talking to the right ones. There were people in their MU thread that Rosa v Falcon is an 80:20 MU in Rosa's favor.

The buff thing is part of what I meant, though. There's a very...special Rosa main that has said stuff like Rosalina's bthrow should be buffed because she's not threatening enough near the ledge (and this person also said 1.0.4 buffed Rosalina and that she's better now than she was before).

The Rosalina boards are a terrifying place.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

You're not talking to the right ones. There were people in their MU thread that Rosa v Falcon is an 80:20 MU in Rosa's favor.

The buff thing is part of what I meant, though. There's a very...special Rosa main that has said stuff like Rosalina's bthrow should be buffed because she's not threatening enough near the ledge (and this person also said 1.0.4 buffed Rosalina and that she's better now than she was before).

The Rosalina boards are a terrifying place.

Most delusional board must be the Kirby board though with their MORTAL DUCKING COMBAT
And yes I meant ducking, not ****ing.

 

[Ffamran]

You're not talking to the right ones. There were people in their MU thread that Rosa v Falcon is an 80:20 MU in Rosa's favor.

The buff thing is part of what I meant, though. There's a very...special Rosa main that has said stuff like Rosalina's bthrow should be buffed because she's not threatening enough near the ledge (and this person also said 1.0.4 buffed Rosalina and that she's better now than she was before).

The Rosalina boards are a terrifying place.

I remember that! Oh, and they said Ganondorf goes 30:70 against Rosalina. In other words, the slower and more gimpable fighter does better than the lightning fast character with a much higher combo potential.

 

[Big-Cat]

I remember that! Oh, and they said Ganondorf goes 30:70 against Rosalina. In other words, the slower and more gimpable fighter does better than the lightning fast character with a much higher combo potential.

Everyone knows you can just do whatever you want against a heavyweight if your character is fast.

 

[Lorde]

I remember that! Oh, and they said Ganondorf goes 30:70 against Rosalina. In other words, the slower and more gimpable fighter does better than the lightning fast character with a much higher combo potential.

There was someone that said Rosa v Ganon is a 100:0 MU though lmao

 

[Sensane]

I feel that she could be a good time out character. I faced a couple Bayos on Anther's Ladder yesterday and two out of the three matches got timed out. The first I won, but the second I was about to get the kill but then it went to time up and I lost.

 

[Ffamran]

There was someone that said Rosa v Ganon is a 100:0 MU though lmao

It's funny how their MU discussions went and it pretty much said that Rosalina 70:30 to 80:30 the entire cast with some exceptions like Sheik and ZSS and even then, it was either even or in Rosalina's favor. Then they're surprised about Rosalina being considered the 3rd best character. You don't get to be surprised if you thought your character almost invalidates the entire cast. You also don't get to ask for buffs when you believe your character almost invalidates the entire cast and the fact there are dysfunctional moves like Captain Falcon, Falco, Greninja, and the Pits' rapid jab, Samus's Up Smash and Uair, Zelda's everything, and lying attack trails found on pretty much everyone, but predominantly on Lucina and Marth.

 

[Greda]

I'm seriously laughing so hard at reading these exchanges it's so sassy and cheeky that I really don't know what to say (in those regards).

I agree with the both of you, though, her high startup time and frame data are something to take into consideration but in certain scenarios her attacks are safe and so good that it hardly matters.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

Meanwhile, in KoF XIII where the fastest move if I remember correctly is either frame 4 or 5 for a jab / light punch. Frame 9 jab would still be slow in that game, but not as slow in this game. Also, I believe that no jab should be slower than frame 7. Seriously, Zelda... Also, Ganondorf's pitifully weak, wannabe Ganondorf Ftilt.

In Soul Cal V the fastest standing move is either i8 (aPat's CE) or i10 (Natsu's A:6) depending on if you count the CE. I come back to Smash after that and see frame 1 jabs and it looks bonkers

Also, Ganon's Ftilt is a good move brah

 

[PF9]

I bought all the remaining Smash 4 DLC I didn't already own today including Bayonetta. I must say if it weren't for Snake in Brawl we probably wouldn't have her. Snake opened the door to other characters from M-rated games to appear in Smash.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

God I love Bayos bullet art nAir.
Spaming dat **** all day long in the neutral.
Airdodges go home.

 

[Ffamran]

Also, Ganon's Ftilt is a good move brah

I know; Ganondorf's Ftilt does everything his jab does and some more while being 2 frames slower.

 

[Ghidorah14]

I love her smash attacks so much. They may be slow, but goddamn, they're so strong.

BTW, I think upsmash may be her best smash attack/witch time punish. It kills from anywhere onstrage, whereas fsmash is only as good near the side of the stage. Pretty much any character that isnt super heavy and is 100%+ just flatout dies to upsmash.

Testing on battlefield:

-Shiek dies to upsmash at 90% middle of the stage, 75% top platform,85% middle platform vs 100% middle of the stage with fsmash.

-Mario dies to upsmash at 110% middle of the stage, 85% top platform, 95% middle platform vs 120% (just barely) middle of the stage with fsmash.

-Ike dies to upsmash at 120% middle of the stage, 95% top platform, 100% middle platform (barely) vs 130% middle of the stage with fsmash.

This is all uncharged smash attacks, btw. Dilt to upsmash looking mighty sick right now, huh?

In short, MOAR UPSMASH.

 

[C0rvus]

I mean, does down tilt > up smash work on everyone? That's pretty important. Muuuuuuuuuch more reliable than any of her "death combos".

 

[Big-Cat]

I really love bayonetta the more I play her but I notice more her flaws. bad "neutral" and bad approach as she is a "combo varianted" and "Bait and Punish" type of character! its like ZSS and Ganondorf had a baby and it turned out to be the best!

it took you long enought! we need more people :D

Wouldn't that make her the holder of both Eyes of The World?