Official The Game Awards 2019 - Discussion Thread

[Droodle]

Or maybe they're not the same person and they just couldn't recreate it exactly.




Huh well I remember Geno being talked about more than Isaac though both were pretty even. So maybe it's a matter of perspective.

I mean the spirits being different than ATs is just an objective fact. One has a more fleshed out presence in the game than the other. A character fully-modeled hopping around on-screen and sending out attacks is different than a static .png and singular fight. At this point I don't know if spirits have a better shot at being upgraded than ATs or vice-versa. I would think Spirits would have an easier time to be implemented but I'm not a SSBU designer so that's just a guess. At this point it could be either/or or neither getting in post-pass. I hope it would be both tbh but I guess we'll see.

I would think that ATs are easier too add, considering most of the models can be reused and altered (most likely). All they would have to do is disable the AT while that character is being played, the methods of which already exist within the game.

That said, this is all purely hypothetical. Knowing Sakurai, he might only add characters that still aren't present in any way; over characters that are in the game in some shape or form.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Knowing Sakurai, he might only add characters that still aren't present in any way; over characters that are in the game in some shape or form.

The veteran DLC has proven that pleasing fans with fighters can take priority over certain things being consistent. Not just due to the Mewtwo/Lucas trophies but also Marth's Roy palettes and Ness' Lucas customs.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Has the salt died down? Yikes.

Overall, imho, while I thought the show was great overall I think Nintendo failed to bring it. Interested in Bravely Default 2, though I never beat the original.

Not entirely sure about what I may predict for Pick 5, but it’s either on par with Terry, more “niche” (even though I wouldn’t really call Terry “niche”), or its a Nintendo character.

More than anything, I just hope this reveal is soon, because it’s beginning to get just a tad boring. Waiting for the fresh start of Smash Post-Fighter Pass.

 

[Datboigeno]

I would think that ATs are easier too add, considering most of the models can be reused and altered (most likely). All they would have to do is disable the AT while that character is being played, the methods of which already exist within the game.

That said, this is all purely hypothetical. Knowing Sakurai, he might only add characters that still aren't present in any way; over characters that are in the game in some shape or form.

I think it'll be a bit of both considering the feedback Nintendo recieved around the time of the Grinch Leak. If wave 2 of DLC was decided this Summer I'd be almost sure that Nintendo would take some of the fan outcry around Spirits and ATs to heart and upgrade at least a couple while also bringing in several totally new franchises and characters.

 

[MisterMike]

Just because most people can't disprove the leak 100% doesn't always mean that it's correct. Most people couldn't really disprove the Grinch leak either, and no one came out to ever take credit for it.

Yeah I get that, but there's a huge difference between the Grinch Leak and the CacoMallow post. The Grinch Leak only gained attention due to a procession of conveniences. On it's own merits, it's as believable as a random 4chan post, that is to say not at all. But then there was the weird green discoloration on the banner art around where Isaac would be on the mural according to the Grinch Leak, there was that Wendy's video that had that new healing item that looked like a Golden Sun icon, when people looked into it the company they found they took down their information. Before we knew it, this post became bigger than anyone would've expected.

Meanwhile, the CacoMallow post only has itself to go off of. No coincidental timing, no wild conspiracy theories, nothing but an image and two videos. It's practically night and day compared to the Grinch Leak, which honestly leaves me baffled as to why people keep comparing the two.

When a leak is dubious at best, it's better to take it with a huge grain of salt.

It's funny that you say that it, because a lot of the arguments I've heard against this post actually use the fact that it looks as convincing as it is as a point against it, because somebody could've taken a lot of time to make it look real. And to their credit, the CacoMallow post hats look really good, almost official, which is why I say that this isn't a case of people having to prove it's legit per se, rather it's a case of the people needing to prove it wrong.

Besides as people mentioned Cacodemon could come with any Bethesda rep and Mallow/Smithy is pretty vague is it Mallow OR Smithy, or Mallow AND Smithy.

It's Mallow AND Smithy, Fatmanonice confirmed it with the guy himself.
https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/post-23730048

The costumes leak doesn't even have all the costumes either. Sans was revealed at the same time, and this implies that the Mallow/Smithy stuff was done way before the SNK costumes too, which I highly doubt. For all we know, this person could have had some legit information and then mixed it up with some false bits to troll fans kinda like that Dante leaker.

Sans is owned by one guy, and that guy happens to be Sakurai's friend. If he asked Sakurai to put Sans in Smash as a costume, the only people Sakurai would've most likely needed to communicate with is Toby, his 3D modelers, and the couple people at most who compile and edit the presentations. How likely do you think it is that any insiders would've heard about it? I'd imagine they'd all be as tight-lipped as possible, lest they lose their jobs, so I'm not suprised Sans isn't on the list.

Nintendo has always taken videos of leaks that are real down so far, they did it with ESRB, they did it with pokemon, they did it when Ultimate leaked. Guess what, they didn't take down the video of the Rayman "leak" that everyone thought was true, and they didn't take down the CacoMallow leak.

Aside from them potentially taking down the video of the KOS-MOS mod, which may or may not be fake; they have NEVER taken down videos of Smash mods in a noticeable manner.

But those three leaks were massive, though. The ESRB Leak had actual gameplay of Smash 4 3DS, the Pokemon Leaks had a deluge of actual gameplay and images both from in-game and from the strategy guides, and when Ultimate leaked it was the real deal game in full. Of course they'd be taken down in those cases, it's so obviously 100% legit that Nintendo couldn't just ignore it. The CacoMallow post is incredibly small scale in comparison, it only shows off a couple of random costumes, it doesn't spoil anything too major and can be safely ignored for the most part.

And really, I think that may explain why they didn't take any of the videos down. I mean, if the videos were legit and they took it down, that would only lead people into believing it was legit, because why else would they have taken it down? Because they're mods? Then what about all of the other Ultimate mods? Why weren't those taken down? Some of those videos have over hundreds of thousands of views on them, so why are they still up? So when you think about it, leaving the video up and not doing anything is the best route they can take, because it allows people to easily dismiss it as fake and forget about it, which is what's largely happened outside of some more devoted Smash fans. Hell, your post is proof of that.

Not saying that Geno or Doomguy can't be in, but it's better to assume that the Cacodemon/Mallow leak was fake, rather than going in with the expectation that Geno and Doomguy are happening 100%.

I'm not saying that Doomguy and Geno are 100%, though. I'm just speculating and arguing for why I believe they may be real, because they very much look legit.

The Grinch Leak didn't deprive me of hope for the future, that was all Sakurai. Even if the Grinch Leak never happen wouldn't have changed the reception of that last Smash Bros Direct. Ending it on an obligation, putting many fan requested characters six feet under with Assist Trophies & Mii Costume, saying that they couldn't add in that many new characters but proudly devoted a good amount of development time into making Piranha Plant playable then charging for it, the stupid Rex Mii Costume, it was really bad. If anything the Grinch Leak taught me to stop getting invested in leaked materials.

Fair enough, but the Grinch Leak did have an effect on people, namely getting their hopes up too high and tricking them into thinking something was happening when it wasn't.

lol, seriously?
This post convinced me that the Cacomallow leak is 100% fake.
They imported that hat in the game's engine and it looks perfect, there's even a screenshot in this very post.
I don't buy the clipping thing; I worked with 3D modeling and I did some mods myself, I know that something that minor can be worked around easily.
And by the way, they look like the mii's hair more than a clipping artifact, and apparently the clipping only happens in that place, if it was a real problem it would have happend everywhere a surface intersects another.

Honestly, this is Grinch 2.0 and I'm not buying it. Thanks for giving me enough evidence that it's fake. (sorry if the post sounds a bit rude, but really, this is facepalm-worthy).

I agree that the mod looks nice, but just because something can be faked isn't evidence that it is faked. The Mii in that screenshot doesn't have hair, that's clearly part of it's hat, but regardless if it is or isn't, that's still a major problem with the model. For clarity's sake, that model was made to be passed off as the one in the CacoMallow post in an attempt to disprove it. The fact that an error like that is present means that it failed it's purpose.

And as for this being Grinch Leak 2.0, I get the feeling you forgot why that fake leak got as big as it did. The Grinch Leak only gained attention due to a procession of conveniences. On it's own merits, it's as believable as a random 4chan post, that is to say not at all. But then there was the weird green discoloration on the banner art around where Isaac would be on the mural according to the Grinch Leak, there was that Wendy's video that had that new healing item that looked like a Golden Sun icon, when people looked into it the company they found they took down their information. Before we knew it, this post became bigger than anyone would've expected.

Meanwhile, the CacoMallow post only has itself to go off of. No coincidental timing, no wild conspiracy theories, nothing but an image and two videos. It's practically night and day compared to the Grinch Leak, which honestly leaves me baffled as to why people keep comparing the two.

Not only it's fake, but looking very closely at the original hat and the "recreation", they are perfectly identical, they have the same polygon/vertex shapes, only deformed a bit (or maybe even just misplaced/moved the pivot point) to give the illusion of not fitting well the Mii's head.

Basically, the person who "recreated" the hat is the same person who did the fake leak.

The inner black section of the hat on the recreation on the right does not at all match the CacoMallow post. The CacoMallow!Hat clearly shows it curving down and around the face, whereas the recreation on the right does not.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

AT's are easier to add only in the sense that they have a model ready. That's kind of it.

If you're making a specific design of how you want to do things, AT's play a bigger role in battle that Spirits don't. So philosophy-wise, Spirits are easier to add.

That said, disabling certain AT's under a circumstance is doable in the game. We know that already because they literally disable all but one AT(and increase how often its onscreen) in Spirit Battles. So these issues don't exist. It's basically philosophy/on principle if they don't want an AT playable in the same game. No more, no less. Of course, there is the factor of stuff like re-licensing a character's usage, making sure the moveset works/flows well, etc., but that's something after the "want" part. If they want them in as playable, they have to do the extra work after.

It's also very understandable that an AT represents a lot more gameplay as is than a Spirit, so they are seen easily as a good representation. Spirits are still this way to some degree, but they are still less of an impact on gameplay. In addition to that, at most they have to worry about if they need a special name or need to rename a spirit. Design too, of course, needs to be unique. It could be like saying Waluigi(Fighter) as the spirit name to make no confusion.

I'm not in a camp of spirits auto-disconfirm or don't matter either. But they are just in a different situation overall. They are not the same as trophies, though are similar, too.

IMO, a second pass could have a Spirit, but there's a reason I believe it's possible. Of course, this is because of the rumor of when DLC was decided(March 2018) being brought into account. My theory is the spirits removed by Sakurai were ones that were either going to be a DLC character or related to one. Which only applies for the Fighter's Pass. Anything after that is a different situation. It does not mean he'd change his mind on any spirit either, but I feel it's a different situation, that's all. I thank Opossum for bringing up that rumor. Last thing to say is that any Spirits shown off via DLC now obviously wouldn't be upgraded any time soon. Including the next set of DLC characters(post-pass). Like, Fighter's Pass 3 if we somehow got there, maybe? But soon, no.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wonder how well-versed in modelling the people who act like it's easy to create a 1 for 1 model of something you can't even see too well are considering people still seem to believe those costumes are legit

 

[TheCJBrine]

Not only it's fake, but looking very closely at the original hat and the "recreation", they are perfectly identical, they have the same polygon/vertex shapes, only deformed a bit (or maybe even just misplaced/moved the pivot point) to give the illusion of not fitting well the Mii's head.

Basically, the person who "recreated" the hat is the same person who did the fake leak.

The leak may very well be fake, but I don't see how the Mallow hats are the same at all. The one in the tweet is a port of a Smash 4 mod that needed extra fiddling because of how the hats work in Ultimate, and the textures and models are clearly different. This the same for the Cacodemon hats if you actually look at them, and if it's fake and the guy was admitting to it, why would he reposition the hat instead of leaving it exactly the same? Even some polygons are different, like the teeth and such not being exact, and the recreation with the crying-laughing mii has more of a neon green for the eye and other differences; I think the one shown in blender being different is very obvious.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wonder how well-versed in modelling the people who act like it's easy to create a 1 for 1 model of something you can't even see too well are considering people still seem to believe those costumes are legit

I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if they're fake. If they are, modeling has come a long way and that's not a bad thing. There's a lot of costumes worth modding in~

 

[MisterMike]

I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if they're fake. If they are, modeling has come a long way and that's not a bad thing. There's a lot of costumes worth modding in~

So when do you think we'll get the Smash equivalent of the Rock Hard **** mod for Sonic Generations?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So when do you think we'll get the Smash equivalent of the Rock Hard **** mod for Sonic Generations?

...Possibly never.

I just want a halfway decent mage to use to recreate Brian. Viridi's staff is awesome, but the clothing doesn't work.

Then again, I'd love to also see Captain N costumes, Armor Mewtwo, Nightmare, etc. I did like the Rathalos armor. I used to recreate Soul Calibur's Nightmare as a Mii Fighter. It honestly is a somewhat similar armor style. Emphasis on somewhat.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

View attachment 252863
The inner black section of the hat on the recreation on the right does not at all match the CacoMallow post. The CacoMallow!Hat clearly shows it curving down and around the face, whereas the recreation on the right does not.

It looks absolutely the same to me. The size/proportions are slighty different, but moving some vertices requires a couple of seconds and zero effort.
The two hats are absolutely matching in everything, from the texture to the polys.
If you look at the horns and the teeth, they have the same shape, not the overall shape, the polygonal shape, the corners are at the same places, it's "recreated" with obsessive precision, something that a person who just wanted to make a little test wouldn't do.
The only thing the original hat has and the one on the right doesn't is the ambient occlusion, and that could either be a setting of the graphical engine (on-off) or simply they removed the shadow mapping from the textures. Except for that, the two hats are the same.

Again, this is the Grinch all over again, I already experienced the Grinch once, I do not intend to experience it a second time, so, case closed for me, I won't continue the discussion about this fake anymore. Geno is cool, I hope he makes it in, but I don't like when people deceive of others like this.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Looking at it again, the Cacodemon hats are awfully similar, however a few teeth still seem different (the third one from the hat's right seems smaller in the leak?), the rest you can't really tell very well because of the quality, and the eye is a different shade of green. The hat also doesn't cover the head's sides as well.

 

[MisterMike]

It looks absolutely the same to me. The size/proportions are slighty different, but moving some vertices requires a couple of seconds and zero effort.
The two hats are absolutely matching in everything, from the texture to the polys.
If you look at the horns and the teeth, they have the same shape, not the overall shape, the polygonal shape, the corners are at the same places, it's "recreated" with obsessive precision, something that a person who just wanted to make a little test wouldn't do.
The only thing the original hat has and the one on the right doesn't is the ambient occlusion, and that could either be a setting of the graphical engine (on-off) or simply they removed the shadow mapping from the textures. Except for that, the two hats are the same.

Again, this is the Grinch all over again, I already experienced the Grinch once, I do not intend to experience it a second time, so, case closed for me, I won't continue the discussion about this fake anymore. Geno is cool, I hope he makes it in, but I don't like when people deceive of others like this.

Alright, so here's an image I made to compare the two. The ones on the top are the two images right next to eachother, and the bottom images are the outline of the face. As you can see, the one on the left (from the CacoMallow post) has a closer, more spherical shape around the head, whereas the one on the right has a very distinct flat shape around the top. The hat on the left and the hat on the right have two completely different fits around the head, which means that you are incorrect in your claims that they are 1-1 identical.

 

[Garteam]

Regarding the legitimacy of the Cacodemon leak, either way it's pretty exciting:
-If it is real, Geno and a Bethesda rep just had their chances skyrocket.
-If it isn't real, there's a madman out there who just advanced Smash Ultimate modding in a big way.