The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[Slyshock]

I can't see how it hurts her chances, other than non exposure in west at the time.
If she was the most popular retro at the time, I don't think that would be a problem.
If Sakurai could see the diversity of request for Lip in the west, hence never appeared there, why should "that" stop Sakurai for adding a character which is asked for in the west? Lucas, Marth and Roy were all at some point added, without having any exposure in the west, and Lip even has it going for her that fans from the west want to see her, which R, M and L did not have. (Arguably on Lucas).

A lack of Western exposure has historically been an issue for Sakurai, most recently afflicting Takamaru. The few who made it in regardless didn't do so without a fair bit of luck, either Nintendo of America insisting on keeping the Melee roster intact or the status of Mother 3's Western release being unknown.

It's still possible that the gameplay of Panel de Pon is considered international enough to excuse Lip's lack of appearances, but with the character in question missing out we can't be sure that a core base of hardcore supporters would've been able to produce enough Western votes to appear as anything more than a novelty.

To be fair, what if the Panel de Pon references in New Leaf was in response to the Ballot?

If I recall correctly, wasn't it stated in the ballot that the votes may be used for future projects? Maybe it doesn't necessarily just apply to Smash, but Nintendo's projects in general. Like they saw this character was popular, so they decided to give them some cameo's or appearances in different upcoming titles. But again, that's just conjecture on my part.

This wasn't a possibility I considered, and it that were to be the case it'd actually end up being a good sign. There's Panel de Pon's appearance on the Super Famicom Mini as well, which also had the potential to be swayed by ballot results. The downside to these is that a glut of Japanese votes could've prompted the same reaction, which wouldn't do much to promote the idea of a worldwide audience.

Eh... I think the AC Panel de Pon content had little to do with deciding the next retro.

It wouldn't have been the biggest factor in the decision, but it certainly would've helped to know that a new generation would be exposed to Panel de Pon gameplay, and that the rest of the world would be exposed to the idea of Lip. I don't see how losing out on one notable piece of representation could do anything but lower her odds.

 

[N. Onymous]

The developers of Animal Crossing Puzzle League could easily have based the Flower Fairy costume set on Lip's model from SSBU. We already know something similar was done for the Flying Man costume in SSB4, which is derived from a model that had to be scrapped from the 3DS game out of performance concerns. This is of course assuming Lip will be in the final game, and has a model for the costume to be derived from.

How well did Lip do in the ballot again?

Hard to say, but as far as potential retro characters go, I feel like her chances are better than most this time around. Assuming Ultimate's roster was directly sourced from the Smash Ballot, which is likely considering Ridley, then her competition in the retro market is slim: Takamaru is an Assist Trophy both here and in Smash 4, so his fans had no reason to consider voting for him; Mike Jones is well-known among Western Nintendo fans, but obscure outside of that group and completely unknown in Japan on account of his games exclusively releasing internationally; and most other retro characters either lack moveset potential (Excitebiker), are even more obscure than Lip (the Marvelous trio, Hakkun), or just don't have as passionate a fanbase (Balloon Fighter, whose supporters were possibly demoralized by Villager's Up-B a la Takamaru). Just being Japan-only isn't a good enough reason to exclude a character when many people around the world know about them and are so passionate about them.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'm thinking it's fairly likely we'll get K. Rool and Lippy this time around then.

The way I see it these are the two first party characters that have the highest chances now that Takamaru's out. K. Rool isn't my favorite and I won't weep if he isn't in, but I'll give him a shot if he does get in. I'd definitely play as Lip casually, but I'm not sure if I'd main her competitively, because I always play heavy hitters like DK and Dedede.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I just quickly wanted to give a shout out. Congratulations with reaching 20 pages! Amazing, and excellent phase for our Lippy discussions.

 

[MysticKnives]

I'm thinking it's fairly likely we'll get K. Rool and Lippy this time around then.

The way I see it these are the two first party characters that have the highest chances now that Takamaru's out. K. Rool isn't my favorite and I won't weep if he isn't in, but I'll give him a shot if he does get in. I'd definitely play as Lip casually, but I'm not sure if I'd main her competitively, because I always play heavy hitters like DK and Dedede.

You've got more confidence than me. I don't feel Lip's chances are particularly good, not as bad as they once were though. I'd be completely satisfied roster wise if she was to make it in. I can't say I play too many heavies, but I do casually play Dedede since he's very fun to play.

I just quickly wanted to give a shout out. Congratulations with reaching 20 pages! Amazing, and excellent phase for our Lippy discussions.

Tell me about it. It doesn't feel that long ago when this thread had like 8 pages.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Agreed. Though at the same time, this Smash game seems more focused on fan service and what people want. Popularity would play a factor in that.

Agreed, however I'm willing to bet while the poll has an extremely heavy hand on Sakurai's decisions, he will be wise enough to ask "to why" characters made specific ballot positions.

For instance, think about how Cloud was added. Granted Cloud himself had a huge fanbase and following, but Sakurai made it clear that it was the overall cry for a Final Fantasy character was taken into account. In the same way, say we have two fire emblem swordsman that rate really high. Would he add both? or perhaps he would take into the account that they both have generally similar audiences and look instead to add a high ballot winner that resonates with a different audience.

Now when we tie this back into LIp, if Lip has a decently strong presence in the poll, Sakurai might see the promise of the character. I mean why should a japanese only character do well outside of japan? This is all conjecture of course and assumes certain concepts but I believe it is important to consider other additional elements that may come into play in addition to the poll. Popularity still remains a key factor, but it isn't the sole factor (not that you were implying that). Also I'd say any character addition is technically fan service.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I thought of something just now, I don't suppose you guys have forgotten about Isaac?

Wouldn't Isaac be the one to throw a monkey wrench into Lip's plans? I mean, he's been a highly requested character since Brawl and he would most likely be competing with Lip.

 

[N. Onymous]

...No, Isaac would not be taking a slot from Lip in any meaningful way. One is a male teenage/adult human swordsman with some earth magic on the side, the other is a young female fairy magician who only uses flower-themed magic. Besides coming from "dead" series, they're nothing alike.

Honestly, it's kinda weird that you'd think that. ^^;

 

[GoodGrief741]

They probably compete, but not any more than K. Rool and Lip. They’re two different characters, both highly requested, yes, but there’s not a lot of overlap.

 

[PsychoJosh]

...No, Isaac would not be taking a slot from Lip in any meaningful way. One is a male teenage/adult human swordsman with some earth magic on the side, the other is a young female fairy magician who only uses flower-themed magic. Besides coming from "dead" series, they're nothing alike.

Honestly, it's kinda weird that you'd think that. ^^;

I know it seems weird that I'd compare them but the thing I'm taking to heart is Sakurai telling us not to expect many more newcomers. So if newcomers are going to be scarce then each new reveal drops her chances exponentially.

 

[N. Onymous]

I think that's an overly touchy way of thinking. We were also told there wouldn't be too many newcomers in SSB4 and we ended up getting about 11 or so pre-DLC, about normal for the series. Then again, SSB4 also didn't bring back every fighter from across the series.

 

[FunAtParties]

If you think that way, EVERY character developed takes her "slot". Dev time used on Pokemon Trainer could be used for any three characters. But, since taking someone's spot is typically more symbolic than that for fans, I don't think Isaac fits the bill.

How many newcomers y'all expecting exactly? I was thinking maybe 3 or 4 tbh

 

[Deleted member]

Ah well, without wanting to come across as too negativ, I'll just say I'm not having that high hopes of seeing a lot of newcomers and those that we will be getting are most likely from big or recent franchises. Although with Takamaru, Sukapon, Sable Prince and Stafy around, I do have high hopes of at least seeing her as an AT this time. Fingers crossed.

Also, a bit late, but here's Lip's house that I did. It's supposed to be a background prop, so there's no interior, might do one just for fun in the future though. Unsure whether I should add glass to the top window or not. The official art doesn't have it, but it might look better. Also I forgot to add a wood texture...

Spoiler

 

[Souldin]

Hello everyone, long time no see. I've been gone since around the release of SSB for Wii U (I used to call it SSBU for short... that's a little awkward now), and whilst I'm not as enthusiastic about the series as I once was, I'm back to talk about the upcoming SSB. Honestly, I feel having less attachment to the series might make it easier for me to discuss the series, or at least more mellow about it.

Oh yeah, I'm also back to support Lip of course; my number 1 desired character for Smash. I got my 3rd most wanted in last time, my 2nd just recently, I'm hoping I can be greedy in expecting my number 1 most wanted in as well. I do think Lip has fairly strong chances of getting in this time, even if I do think we aren't going to get many newcomers.

If you think that way, EVERY character developed takes her "slot". Dev time used on Pokemon Trainer could be used for any three characters. But, since taking someone's spot is typically more symbolic than that for fans, I don't think Isaac fits the bill.

How many newcomers y'all expecting exactly? I was thinking maybe 3 or 4 tbh

It's been a while since I was last here, but I'm fairly sure I'm replying to you correctly. I personally think that we are likely to get at least 5 more original newcomers. There's only 5 or so months until SSBU releases and 70 sounds like such a nice number. This is of course not counting Echo Fighters, whom I'm anticipating anywhere between 1-5 more. This is also not expecting DLC.

We could get more than that though, but lowered expectations could lead to fortunate surprises when that number is surpassed.

 

[FunAtParties]

Hello everyone, long time no see. I've been gone since around the release of SSB for Wii U (I used to call it SSBU for short... that's a little awkward now), and whilst I'm not as enthusiastic about the series as I once was, I'm back to talk about the upcoming SSB. Honestly, I feel having less attachment to the series might make it easier for me to discuss the series, or at least more mellow about it.

Oh yeah, I'm also back to support Lip of course; my number 1 desired character for Smash. I got my 3rd most wanted in last time, my 2nd just recently, I'm hoping I can be greedy in expecting my number 1 most wanted in as well. I do think Lip has fairly strong chances of getting in this time, even if I do think we aren't going to get many newcomers.



It's been a while since I was last here, but I'm fairly sure I'm replying to you correctly. I personally think that we are likely to get at least 5 more original newcomers. There's only 5 or so months until SSBU releases and 70 sounds like such a nice number. This is of course not counting Echo Fighters, whom I'm anticipating anywhere between 1-5 more. This is also not expecting DLC.

We could get more than that though, but lowered expectations could lead to fortunate surprises when that number is surpassed.

Don't worry, you're doing it right.

Yeah I'm keeping my expectations low too. I've heard that Verge guy said 6 more, so that's something. How nice would it be if that 'I hope your not expecting to many newcomers' was a complete fakeout, and we got like 20? Lmao

 

[Souldin]

Don't worry, you're doing it right.

Yeah I'm keeping my expectations low too. I've heard that Verge guy said 6 more, so that's something. How nice would it be if that 'I hope your not expecting to many newcomers' was a complete fakeout, and we got like 20? Lmao

Ah, thank you.

If I recall correctly, Sakurai said to not expect many newcomers last time as well... we got quite a few in the end. Despite expecting only 5 more, I feel Lip's chances are above-average at the very least, which is particularly pleasing to be feeling.

By the way, judging by your profile pic, I'm guessing you wanted Starfy in the game as well. A real shame he's just an assist trophy once again, I would have liked to have seen him playable.

 

[FunAtParties]

Ah, thank you.

If I recall correctly, Sakurai said to not expect many newcomers last time as well... we got quite a few in the end. Despite expecting only 5 more, I feel Lip's chances are above-average at the very least, which is particularly pleasing to be feeling.

By the way, judging by your profile pic, I'm guessing you wanted Starfy in the game as well. A real shame he's just an assist trophy once again, I would have liked to have seen him playable.

Yeah I love Starfy, pretty bummed about the AT, but I was kinda expecting it.

I don't remember anything specific about the expected amount of newcomers for Smash 4, so I'll take your word for it lol. I'm still going to keep my expectations low for now just in case.

Not sure on Lip's chances, that's another thing I'll wait and see on. I really don't know how to gage her popularity, and idk if her being retro makes her likely seeing there's many other retro characters. I'd probably say average right now, myself.

 

[PsychoJosh]

If you think that way, EVERY character developed takes her "slot". Dev time used on Pokemon Trainer could be used for any three characters. But, since taking someone's spot is typically more symbolic than that for fans, I don't think Isaac fits the bill.

How many newcomers y'all expecting exactly? I was thinking maybe 3 or 4 tbh

I'm not talking about "slots", I'm more pointing to the fact that there's only so many characters they have enough time to develop and balance in addition to the already ridiculously massive roster.

But I suppose you're right, if we get at least 7 newcomers that's plenty of room for Lip to show up. Since this game is largely based on SSB4 I'm expecting closer to 10 newcomers since they can devote a lot of time to these additions. It's like another season of DLC.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm not talking about "slots", I'm more pointing to the fact that there's only so many characters they have enough time to develop and balance in addition to the already ridiculously massive roster.

... That’s what most people talk about when they talk about “slots”, though.

 

[N. Onymous]

Honestly, people who only expect 3-4 newcomers are being overly pessimistic. I think team Sora realizes as much as we do that would disappoint a lot of people. 7-8 is a more reasonable estimate, and I wouldn't be surprised if we got more.

 

[PsychoJosh]

... That’s what most people talk about when they talk about “slots”, though.

No it isn't. The way most people talk about slots is as an arbitrary number. "Okay, we'll add exactly ten more characters, no more, no less". It's not so much about wanting to put in as many characters as they can before the deadline but rather meeting a quota set from nowhere.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I'm pleased to announce that Lip's model is finally finished. I'm currently in possession of the files and will get to work on rigging them.

This is a pre-release screenshot, her eyelashes are a bit longer in the final version. All we need to do now is rig her and apply blendshapes to her face and we should be in business. I'll get back to you.

That model looks great! When you finish and turn it into an image format I'll happily make a splash screen and percentage bar for Lip like I've been doing for the other communities

 

[FunAtParties]

The 3D model is already paying off

 

[Deleted member]

Here's something I dug up now that I have a working keyboard again. I'm even close to finish the rigging and it will be done this weekend. I did change some of the proportions which might cause issues with the old rig but should be an easy fix now that I'm getting more used to it. I made her upper body smaller, the turtleneck slightly bigger and also made her legs and feet bigger as well. All of this should make her more proportional to her artwork and less lanky. Currently Lip's ~6.8k polys which even Brawl should be able to handle, I think. If not, I'm gonna have to see where I can shave some polys off.

Spoiler: New

Spoiler: Old

 

[PsychoJosh]

Yeah, I was wondering about that. The Lip model I commissioned has about 30k polys so it's probably too high for Brawl. Even Wii U might be a stretch. We'll see if we can scale it though.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

For those who still think that Kirby still having Lip's Garbage Block as one of his Stone transformations goes against her, didn't we have the same situation in the last game with people saying that Villager's Neutral Attack being boxing gloves disconfirmed Little Mac? Just something I thought I'd bring up.

 

[Luminario]

For those who still think that Kirby still having Lip's Garbage Block as one of his Stone transformations goes against her, didn't we have the same situation in the last game with people saying that Villager's Neutral Attack being boxing gloves disconfirmed Little Mac? Just something I thought I'd bring up.

To be fair, those are just regular boxing gloves, as opposed to something uniquely tied to a game or character like the Garbage Block. It hinders her chances somewhat, but until we see the Lip's Stick I've still got hope.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It really depends on how important Garbage Blocks are to Panel de Pon and whether Lip's moveset, if it were to be a Smash adaptation of the game itself, can be made without them, but until then I would not take it as a good sign

 

[N. Onymous]

It really depends on how important Garbage Blocks are to Panel de Pon and whether Lip's moveset, if it were to be a Smash adaptation of the game itself, can be made without them, but until then I would not take it as a good sign

It's not like her moveset has to have garbage blocks in it or anything. There are plenty of other gameplay and lore elements she could use for her moveset. In fact, considering how they revamped Final Smashes for this one, Garbage Blocks (with or without using the same model as Kirby's Stone) could easily be her final.

 

[Camc10]

2 things. About how someone talked about Cloud getting in due to the want of a FF character, i could see Lip's chances rise for want of a non-clone Puzzle specific character. And also, should we be expecting to see Lip revealed before or after the game is out if she gets in? after reading the site, ive always noticed 1 "retro like" character being one of the secret unlocks in Smash. (G&W in Melee, ROB in Brawl, Duck Hunt in 3DS)

 

[GoodGrief741]

2 things. About how someone talked about Cloud getting in due to the want of a FF character, i could see Lip's chances rise for want of a non-clone Puzzle specific character. And also, should we be expecting to see Lip revealed before or after the game is out if she gets in? after reading the site, ive always noticed 1 "retro like" character being one of the secret unlocks in Smash. (G&W in Melee, ROB in Brawl, Duck Hunt in 3DS)

With how few newcomers people are expecting, I don’t know if there will be characters left secret until release.

 

[Camc10]

With how few newcomers people are expecting, I don’t know if there will be characters left secret until release.

I still think people are underestimating how much Sakurai's team can do considering Smash 4 3DS AND WiiU.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I still think people are underestimating how much Sakurai's team can do considering Smash 4 3DS AND WiiU.

I get what you say, but from a PR standpoint, if people are only expecting 5 newcomers total, and you reveal 5 newcomers before the game releases, you might lose sales from people thinking that’s it and deciding it’s not worth the purchase. That’s why I think even if we get 10-12 new characters, we might know about them all before release.

 

[Camc10]

I get what you say, but from a PR standpoint, if people are only expecting 5 newcomers total, and you reveal 5 newcomers before the game releases, you might lose sales from people thinking that’s it and deciding it’s not worth the purchase. That’s why I think even if we get 10-12 new characters, we might know about them all before release.

Oh, no, i just mean from the amount the characters. All secret characters getting revealed before then is a good chance of happening considering BJr and DuckHunt got trailers for the WiiU version.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Lip's moveset could still have garbage blocks. They might just be a different color than Kirby's or they might be significantly larger.

 

[N. Onymous]

Lip's moveset could still have garbage blocks. They might just be a different color than Kirby's or they might be significantly larger.

They'd still have to be pink, otherwise it wouldn't be accurate. I'm thinking they could be wider but shorter than Kirby's, and maybe a different hue.

 

[LipFlare]

Well excuuuse me...

If Lip is in a battle where a Kirby is present, Kirbys Garbage-Stone should becomes a framed portrait of Alfonzo! "Leave it to me!"

Please forgive me. ~that was really desperate~

 

[Homelessvagrant]

They'd still have to be pink, otherwise it wouldn't be accurate. I'm thinking they could be wider but shorter than Kirby's, and maybe a different hue.

Or Kirby's garbage block form is deactivated when Lip is a combatant.

Though realistically either way you cut it, it is unnecessary visual noise for Kirby to have a move that Lip has and I can't see Lip playing without using the iconic garbage block in at least one attack. So while not a death sentence, Kirby having the move is a huge detractor.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Or Kirby's garbage block form is deactivated when Lip is a combatant.

Though realistically either way you cut it, it is unnecessary visual noise for Kirby to have a move that Lip has and I can't see Lip playing without using the iconic garbage block in at least one attack. So while not a death sentence, Kirby having the move is a huge detractor.

Yes because we all know how the Thwomp appearing in his down special hurt Bowser's chances.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yes because we all know how the Thwomp appearing in his down special hurt Bowser's chances.

Am I missing something here, when does Bowser use a Thwomp?