The Divide Between Good and Great (Complete)

[Linkster47]

Great thread.

I usually don't think hard when playing my friends, but this topic's calm tone has really pushed it through my head that if I thought closely on every match and played differant styles according to how my opponent played and reacted, I would be able to win a lot more.

 

[Shinku]

this is a very amazing thread. i just try not to think about smash too much but like azen plays it, like tetris. baaazing

also mr silver, im getting alot better playing you more and more, and i didn't even realize it. repryx beat me at c3 and i got so upset i said "2 out of 3 dammit" so the other player who had next had to wait. lol. but then like 2 weeks later after i played you so much, i beat him 20 times straight and i couldn't believe i did. sigoy

 

[Sethlon]

I love discovering these little snippets of wisdom when i randomly run through the MD thread =}

 

[Doctor X]

Very well said, though I think I disagree on some of the word choice. Namely that it's bad to play "impulsively." Really, on a competitive level, the game often moves so fast all you can really rely on are impulses. You just have to train yourself so that those impulses are the right ones.

I think it might be better to say that it's bad to play "aimlessly." Poor players often make moves simply for the sake of doing something-- in other words, they act on impulses that offer no benefit and therefore can only hinder their game. You likely aren't actively thinking about it as you play, but if you could look back at a replay you should be able to find a good reason for absolutely everything you did.

 

[Matador]

Very well said, though I think I disagree on some of the word choice. Namely that it's bad to play "impulsively." Really, on a competitive level, the game often moves so fast all you can really rely on are impulses.

Ah, but isn't that what separates us from top pros? The fact that they can think through their moves before they do them makes them the best.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I agree with Mookie on the fact that the character you main often times breeds your style of play but you must also take into account what character your opponent is playing. As a bottom tier main(kirby FTW!!!) I must often times play the defensive/ambush style but I have found that this doesn't necessarily work against some opponents. A spacie can rely solely on their projectiles to build damage and just play hit and run(aka spam style). This forces me to play a more aggressive play style. Not that a aggressive kirby vs spacie is a particularly good way to play but I dont really get a choice. This is actually very useful because it teaches me to play in a way I wouldn't normally play allowing me to adapt better should I ever be playing a different(read, BETTER) character I can change my style up.

 

[Doctor X]

Ah, but isn't that what separates us from top pros? The fact that they can think through their moves before they do them makes them the best.

It's not like they're pondering philosophy or doing vector calculus in their heads while they're playing. The game moves too quickly for that kind of deeply involved thought process. It's not like time moves more slowly for them-- they still generally have less than a second to decide what they're going to do and when they're going to do it at any given time.

Anybody who's any good at this game shouldn't have to be actively thinking about anything that they do in game. One should be able to just know what to do and act on that impulse quickly and efficiently.

What separates the top pros from us is a combination of training and raw talent that's allowed them to reach a state where their impulses seldom lead them astray.

 

[Matador]

It's not like they're pondering philosophy or doing vector calculus in their heads while they're playing. The game moves too quickly for that kind of deeply involved thought process. It's not like time moves more slowly for them-- they still generally have less than a second to decide what they're going to do and when they're going to do it at any given time.

Anybody who's any good at this game shouldn't have to be actively thinking about anything that they do in game. One should be able to just know what to do and act on that impulse quickly and efficiently.

What separates the top pros from us is a combination of training and raw talent that's allowed them to reach a state where their impulses seldom lead them astray.

So you're saying that, while playing, everything should be instinctive, and none of it planned or thought out? I agree too an extent....

Edit: Nevermind, no I don't. That makes no sense.

 

[Yoshi'stheBombers7]

I believe in doing whatever your doing as the game progresses, but I have statigies in mind. What is the point of mind games unless you have something planned? What are they therefore if not to lead your opponent into traps?

 

[Vortok]

It's not like they're pondering philosophy or doing vector calculus in their heads while they're playing. The game moves too quickly for that kind of deeply involved thought process. It's not like time moves more slowly for them-- they still generally have less than a second to decide what they're going to do and when they're going to do it at any given time.

Anybody who's any good at this game shouldn't have to be actively thinking about anything that they do in game. One should be able to just know what to do and act on that impulse quickly and efficiently.

The better you are at a game, the more clearly you see the situation.

Hypothetical situation: An inexperienced player may see 20 different messages that his brain tries to comprehend and determine what to do based on those 20 things. A pro player, through experience and training, knows instinctively that 15 of those things don't make a **** bit of difference as they just lead to the other 5. Thus, his brain is presented with only 5 messages to interpret. Of course over time his brain has learned to process situations faster so he reaches his solution more quickly than a less experienced player can reach their conclusion.


I saw something like that in the Playing to Win article regarding a fighting game. In the middle of a combo, your opponent may only have two options (three, if you count not finishing the combo). One is a low attack, the other a mid attack. Each has a different start animation. The experienced player has learned to filter out everything else, and just focus on seeing the beginning of either animation and is thus able to block the combo far more effectively than someone less experienced.

 

[Repryx]

Here is how Try to play now (and it works can you beleive it)

I have a strategy that depends on who Im playing (Since I use Falco)

Spammy Lasers- on Slower enemies

Counter Attacks- on Quicker Enemies

DI Crazy and Spontaneous Movements- on Combo Crazy Enemies.

These three are base startegies...as they hold the oppositions weakness in some way....From there I mix-up everything else I know and Act Accordingly to how the opponent plays. I also Show-off Tech skill If I see the opponent is intimidated easily when I do a combo on 'em YEAH SOLDIER 1st Class

 

[Hypocrisy]

It's not like they're pondering philosophy or doing vector calculus in their heads while they're playing. The game moves too quickly for that kind of deeply involved thought process. It's not like time moves more slowly for them-- they still generally have less than a second to decide what they're going to do and when they're going to do it at any given time.

Anybody who's any good at this game shouldn't have to be actively thinking about anything that they do in game. One should be able to just know what to do and act on that impulse quickly and efficiently.

What separates the top pros from us is a combination of training and raw talent that's allowed them to reach a state where their impulses seldom lead them astray.

actually as you get progressively better at a certain task, then it does seem like time moves slower, your brain just becomes more used to the game and can comprehend it quicker and quicker as it notices patterns so instead of not knowing what is going to happen next your subconcious is already seeing it so time seems to move a little bit slower. sorry if that was confusing, im a psych student and combining psychology and video games is always really interesting to me.

 

[Repryx]

^^ Agreed There is no such thing as "Bullet-Time" Rather a Been there Done tht type thing...Its like If I flash a Picture @ you 3 times you will probably notice something different each time...If I keep on doing it you can explain to me what is in the pic....(Im a Psych student too)

Also Due to pros PLaying so many people constantly they have become accustomed to strategies...I.E Drephen & Falcos

 

[Doctor X]

So you're saying that, while playing, everything should be instinctive, and none of it planned or thought out? I agree too an extent....

Edit: Nevermind, no I don't. That makes no sense.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. A good player will spend a lot of time thinking and planning out-- evaluating himself and his opponents. But this is not necessarily done during the game itself. During the game itself, a player needs to be able to perceive and react quickly. He shouldn't be pondering what the best choice in a given situation is. He should already know-- whether this knowledge comes from basic instinct or, more likely on a higher level, his experience.

 

[Yojimbo]

I really think that being too impulsive is what is holding back my game. A lot of people play on my floor at my university but I beat my roommate four or five stock every single time. Another one of my close friends gives me a good run for my money because I run into everything he does when I know what's going to do yet I still do it. 'cause I hope for luck and I play too sporatically.

I need to take the time to sit and analyze the situation before tackling the problem. Unless you read the problem on a test before writing down an answer, you might bomb it. So maybe this will help; I plan to try out thinking before acting in a few minutes when my roommate returns. Thanks a ton for this great guide.

 

[MattDotZeb]

*sigh*
It's topics like this that make me feel stupid. People say it's so easy to advance, and this topic makes it seem that way. I've known all this for a while now, and since about the start of summer I feel as if I've been stuck at the same skill level, just slowly improving.

I know I do play a little better than I used to, it's just that I feel silly when it comes to things like this because most players seem to be able to pick up on this fairly easily.. T_T

 

[knightpraetor]

ya nice article..i highly agree though that your style gets shaped by your opponent..freaking falco main making me too aggressive against ganondorf...i know the feeling..i have no clue how to play campy with marth or anything other than aggressive..it's weird..because i can play taht sort of style with sheik..from watching marth vs sheik matches...and i can't play aggressive sheik even though i watch my friends do it all the time...

regardless i don't think playstyle is always the main factor in determining victory..definitely having a good sense of all the options through experience works best...hell i can approach marth with kirby and do decently if the opponent doesn't have a good sense of my options..still hard as hell though.

and i tune out options that i know lead to the same thing..in some cases two or three actions can cover 10 or more things the opponent can do...so that statement is definitely true...

as for conscious thought..i don't do enough of it in game..if i can get space or think I do so..especially remembering what the opponent did in reaction to prior motions and stuff..but as to what can punish what thing..that has to be memorized..as well as trained into memory so you know the option exists...basically when i discover something new that i hadn't seen before..i think up three or four ways to punish it and then get my friend to just stand there and repeat the sequence while i punish until it becomes ingrained.

even so..sometimes i feel like conscious thought would up my skill level a lot more...i get periods of lucidity in which i'm constantly contemplating what my opponent is doing and what his options are..and even have conscious thought of...oh that's why i got tagged into that combo

but the majority of the time it is very hard to focus your mind. Humans have short attention spans

 

[Winged Messiah]

*sigh*
It's topics like this that make me feel stupid. People say it's so easy to advance, and this topic makes it seem that way. I've known all this for a while now, and since about the start of summer I feel as if I've been stuck at the same skill level, just slowly improving.

I know I do play a little better than I used to, it's just that I feel silly when it comes to things like this because most players seem to be able to pick up on this fairly easily.. T_T

Bah, I feel exactly the same . But I know my reason (or john xD) is that I've never had anyone to coach/**** me, which hopefully should change once I get off my *** and go to some biweekleys.

 

[Omni]

This is an epic thread.

 

[TOBIYA]

i liked reading this. good post.
Assailants up.



lulz weepinbell