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The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

Mario123311

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If Smash is a mascot fighter, then why is Sakurai including characters like Bayonetta and Shulk? Maybe it once felt that way, but I don't think Sakurai sees Smash that way anymore. Even if you think Lloyd has no place in Smash (and you are free to feel that way), Sakurai might not agree.

I can't say anything in regards to the Namco complaints though. I don't know too much about the state of most of their IPs.
I'll just say that the only things they do with their older IPs anymore is port the original 80's arcade titles (which are port overdosed at this point, more than SMB1 and Sonic 1.) or regulate them to cashgrabs or cheap mobile games in the case of Pac-Man. The main issue especially that Pac-Man is facing is that he's in a "nostalgia" crutch, Similar to Mario during the Wii U era and Sonic since Lost World. The CE games are basically on their way to becoming the NSMB of the Pac-Man series. All we've gotten aside from mobile spinoffs are literally remixes and remakes of the 1980's original: And even most of the mobile games are still mostly just that.

Seriously, It's just... infuriating.

Especially when there are more than plenty of people who have been waiting for Pac-Man to properly evolve again with an evolution of the World formula in particular. (These games were sadly just forgotten due to time, They were far from obscure though, and they still are far from that.)
 
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blueneuronDOTnet

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I still find his design generic personally.
There are a lot of things you can say about his design, but generic isn't one of them, IMO. He's candy apple red, wearing suspenders with giant white buttons, blocky aesthetics, and rat tails. That's about as unique as anime characters get, and what few characters share his design did so because they were inspired by him.

That and his moves aren't all that special either. And again: I've played Symphonia briefly along with SSF2. He still does not appeal to me at all.
Symphonia's combat system doesn't really bloom until later in the game, and SSF2 didn't incorporate the arte system, so that doesn't really say anything about what he'd be like in Smash Ultimate.

And again, Just having him in there would anger me not just because he's another swordfighter, but because Namco has overflaunted his franchise in general while their other actual IPs are all rotting away. (And again, They aren't even using Pac-Man properly anymore.) It's insulting to me that Namco isn't bothering to give Pac-Man material from his early 2000's glory days of resurgance and are sticking directly to the 80's arcade game for material. (Which wasn't even enough so they had to give him shout-out moves.) It really doesn't help almost nobody heard of Pac-Land until Smash 4 happened. And it's choice to be represented is almost universally hated.
Lloyd's inclusion isn't going to affect this in any way. The issue doesn't lie with Pac-Man losing attention due to the success of the Tales series, it lies with Namco and the way it views the Pac-Man IP. Your scorn is misplaced.

I'll just say that the only things they do with their older IPs anymore is port the original 80's arcade titles (which are port overdosed at this point, more than SMB1 and Sonic 1.) or regulate them to cashgrabs or cheap mobile games in the case of Pac-Man. The main issue especially that Pac-Man is facing is that he's in a "nostalgia" crutch, Similar to Mario during the Wii U era and Sonic since Lost World. The CE games are basically on their way to becoming the NSMB of the Pac-Man series.

Seriously, It's just... infuriating.

Especially when there are more than plenty of people who have been waiting for Pac-Man to properly evolve again with an evolution of the World formula in particular. (These games were sadly just forgotten due to time, They were far from obscure though, and they still are far from that.)
Yeah, we're definitely getting off-topic here.
 

Mario123311

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One guy asked for an explanation, I simply gave it.
I can't say anything in regards to the Namco complaints though. I don't know too much about the state of most of their IPs.
But I didn't mean to go off on a tangent anyway. Just explain myself. Hopefully this gives better insight for those unaware of why I have my reasons for holding a grudge against this series.

But I just really do find the "Goku-haired medeval/fantasy wearing JRPG swordguy" to be a look that has been used quite a bit. (Hell, We already have Cloud whom was divisive among the Smash fandom to begin with.)

Please carry on and hopefully we can part our ways respectfully and civilized.
 
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ryuu seika

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Pacman with limbs is a hideous monstrosity but I would like to see Klonoa get more love. He was pretty cool conceptually, had a cute design and aesthetic and was a decent enough platformer with unique enough mechanics. I'm not too well versed in Lunatea's Veil but I definitely enjoyed the Wii version, even if it wasn't really groundbreaking in any sense.
I would like to see the series expanded upon.

Aside from that, Soul Calibur is far more interesting than Tekken will ever be, outside of its (abandoned) mobile card game, so I wish they'd stop pushing the latter so hard but hey, Tales. Tales is good.

Aside from Tales, though, Namco's definitely not doing the most they can with their most fun IPs and, even within Tales, I really wish they'd give the damn CC and forced weaknesses a rest.
 
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Flynn.Scifo

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Sakurai did a great job in literally turning a pizza into a playable character in Smash. Pac man is cute, funny, functional and an original character. He may not be how you envisioned he would be but it seams to me you still hold a grudge about that and need to make peace with it.

Regarding Pac land, an explanation on why it was there choice could be that they said the WiiU version on smash was focusing on home consoles games. If I did my researches correctly, Pac land appeared on NES while Pac world was only Playstation (on home consoles) thus leading to the decision to include a Pac land stage. It's Nintendo after all, why would they use Pac man history with a rival company, Cloud is enough to cover that.

That said, what does it have to do with Lloyd ? The Tales franchise is very popular and we already got out classic Namco Rep.
 

Mario123311

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Flynn.Scifo Flynn.Scifo
Not to drag this on but what this has lots to do about Lloyd and Tales of in general is me and several other longtime Namco fans are ticked off they are promoting the heck out of the series yet won’t bother to acknowledge anything else they made from the 90’s and early 2000’s.

And again, You realize the fact Pac-Man literally has nothing from the World trilogy is just as much of a problem as the lack of Wario Land representation in Smash 4, right? (Which at least Ultimate brough back Wario’s trademark move.)

Also while the first World game was on PlayStation it’s 2 sequels were multiplatform. So it really doesn’t make sense.

But I don’t want to derail this topic any further. I never intended to in the first place and I didn’t think I’d respond this much. I just really am sick of Tales being shoved down my throat by Namco themselves.

And I really do not WANT to outright hate this series.

Not trying to convince anybody here to change their mind. If you want this character, good for you. Just... Please understand where I come from. Most Tales fans I have met say how none of Namco’s other IPs should exist anymore aside from their series simply because “they don’t sell” if you dare say it needs to step down from it’s endless limelight.

Nevermind the gaming industry wasn’t nearly as big as it is now back then.
 
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Flynn.Scifo

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All right, you have your grudge, it's understandable, but you can't blame it all on the Tales series or its fans (I'm sorry you met with nuts ones, we're not all like this). It didn't steal its success, the quality has become questionable over the years but the series brought incredible games (and still do like Berseria) and has a lot a fans. It's inclusion in Smash is well deserved.

Why Lloyd ? He's iconic, more than Cless. Symphonia was originally a gamecube release and made the series known in the west (kinda like FFVII did) and is considered among the best in the franchise.
 

Icedragonadam

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And I just read that Namco is doing a Tales of Vesperia 10th Anniversary party in Japan on September 16th.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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TBQH, all the companies today have become kind of... "stagnant" and underusing their IPs as of late. And when I mean all of them, I mean, ALL of them.

Nintendo's already having many obscure IPs being begged about for Smash Ultimate just so they can be given another chance in limelight, some which already got shot down (Starfy, Mysterious Murasame Castle, Advance Wars probably.)

I mean, gladly Nintendo's mostly running on 5 or more currently profilic IPs to do with (Mario, Splatoon, Zelda, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Xenoblade probably sooner or later) - however, others are given non-regular releases (DK, Metroid, Warioware, Pikmin, Star Fox, Yoshi... Kirby doesn't count due being developed regularly by Hal Labs still today fine and dandy)

And then we get to the very bottom of the barrel of fans waiting the series featured in Smash to get a new game just someday - mainly F-Zero-fans and KI-fans.

We then move on to Konami, who basically flipped completely on it's legacy the last half a decade, and hasn't really recovered well in community's eyes sans Smash including Snake and (thank God because pachinko-hell is dead) Castlevania.

Meanwhile Capcom has all but exhausted their other IPs to eons-long hiatuses when they aren't being their cash cows such as Street Fighter, Resident Evil or Monster Hunter (sans Megaman but that more was just due being revived through Smash).

SEGA's trying to kind of move away from this via doing apparently some new installments for some series consistently now and even reviving some, such as Valkyria Chronicles, Streets of Rage and even Sakura Wars.

If to sorta sum it for you though, the variety in IPs and franchises in all companies have bit of taken a big dip since last decade, and it took massive reworkings within them to turn this around (like Splatoon being led by Koizumi, and SEGA putting already competent developers in Lizardcube to good use again for giving a revival people have been asking for eons to Street of Rage-series. Time will be the best friend here to see if something might happen. (Also inner demand within the companies incase fan outcry doesnät reach.)

In the end, I'm probably just grateful that Tales Of at least is still sticking around - I'd hate to have seen it be ignored too incase it didn't sell too well enough, or got such a chance (especially with it having some drop in quality some last games until recently.)

I quite hope to see Klonoa back one day too, probably with Rival Schools in tow, but for now, I can at least hope for Sakura Kasugano as some ambassador throwback to the latter series. Give or take, for now.



And again, You realize the fact Pac-Man literally has nothing from the World trilogy is just as much of a problem as the lack of Wario Land representation in Smash 4, right? (Which at least Ultimate brough back Wario’s trademark move.)
Well, I could probably vouch that Up-Air seems canon with Pac-Man due possessing same flip kick in Pacman World 2, and you could say him eating a line of Pac-Dots got also lifted from Pac-Man World 2's Pac-Dot Chains in that game...

But that's getting too off-topic. :dr-_-:
 
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Icedragonadam

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Happy 15th Anniversary Tales of Symphonia! Get your free hot or cold coffee!

Despite not being revealed on Symphonia's anniversary I hope's he revealed in September Since my birthday is in that month. That would be a great birthday gift.
 

Nazyrus

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Happy 15th Anniversary Tales of Symphonia! Get your free hot or cold coffee!

Despite not being revealed on Symphonia's anniversary I hope's he revealed in September Since my birthday is in that month. That would be a great birthday gift.
Don't worry, I have hopes for Lloyd just like i do for Banjo Kazooie who this year is having their 20th anniversary. I think these two characters have great chances if Nintendo is willing to put them in smash as celebration. There's still a chance!
 

Icedragonadam

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I only want this to be fake because that render is ugly as sin!
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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If they want to stay true to original TOS, shouldn't they go for a cell shading art style like Toon link ?
Aye, Toon Link's shading (and art style) is exactly what I'm hoping they'll use. Maybe a slight bit more realistic in terms of the model, as I'd like some detail on his outfit, but beyond that...
 

PhilosophicAnimal

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It just occurred to me that I had not supported That Kid in Red yet, which is surprising, as I always do. Guess I got caught up in other stuff...sorry, Lloyd!

Please add me to the supporter list! Wanted to see Lloyd in Smash since I first played Symphonia. And with his costume being a thing, there's actually a shot this time. Let's make it happen!
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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It just occurred to me that I had not supported That Kid in Red yet, which is surprising, as I always do. Guess I got caught up in other stuff...sorry, Lloyd!

Please add me to the supporter list! Wanted to see Lloyd in Smash since I first played Symphonia. And with his costume being a thing, there's actually a shot this time. Let's make it happen!
Added!
 

Nazyrus

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If lloyd makes it in with this thread only being 4 to 6 pages long that would be kinda funny and amazing. lol
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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One last reminder to not double post. Don't worry if your topic doesn't appear on the "first page". Just edit your message instead. Somebody will reply otherwise. You can also ask for a merge instead if needed.
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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One last reminder to not double post. Don't worry if your topic doesn't appear on the "first page". Just edit your message instead. Somebody will reply otherwise. You can also ask for a merge instead if needed.
My main issue is that I simply forget, and can't seem to delete the duplicate message to fix it.
 

Ypsen

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Hi there everyone ! New guy here !

I wanted to drop by, since I'm huge fan of Tales of Symphonia (my 2nd favorite game after FFIX) and supported Lloyd since Melee. Actually, I was really shocked at the Brawl release, since I was at 100% sure that Lloyd would be included, based on the massive success of ToS. And here I am, still waiting for his inclusion...

By the way, there's something I want to discuss with you guy : which is the true popularity of Lloyd among smash fans.

There's something bugging me, and it's the fact that Lloyd presence on discussions/poll is pretty inconsistant.
Back at the Brawl and Sm4sh era, I had the genuine feeling that Lloyd was really demanded everywhere I looked on the web. But now ? Looks like he completely vanished !
Sure, and thanks god, he's still demanded, but I got the feeling that I fooled myself back at the time, seeing Lloyd as a more serious contended that he actually is. The last thing that blow the last remnant of hope that I had was the smash dojo document, where among more of 44 000 votes, Lloyd was really low or nowhere to be seen. Even here on Smashboards, there's only 4 pages for the Lloyd thread (but I read the previous one got erased or something ?)

But still... Lloyd got a Mii Costume a the exact time of the ballot, so it DOES means he's at least do really well in the ballot.

Anyway, I haven't been able to figure if Lloyd is really popular or just anecdotal.

And of course, count me in for the support list !
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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Hi there everyone ! New guy here !

I wanted to drop by, since I'm huge fan of Tales of Symphonia (my 2nd favorite game after FFIX) and supported Lloyd since Melee. Actually, I was really shocked at the Brawl release, since I was at 100% sure that Lloyd would be included, based on the massive success of ToS. And here I am, still waiting for his inclusion...

By the way, there's something I want to discuss with you guy : which is the true popularity of Lloyd among smash fans.

There's something bugging me, and it's the fact that Lloyd presence on discussions/poll is pretty inconsistant.
Back at the Brawl and Sm4sh era, I had the genuine feeling that Lloyd was really demanded everywhere I looked on the web. But now ? Looks like he completely vanished !
Sure, and thanks god, he's still demanded, but I got the feeling that I fooled myself back at the time, seeing Lloyd as a more serious contended that he actually is. The last thing that blow the last remnant of hope that I had was the smash dojo document, where among more of 44 000 votes, Lloyd was really low or nowhere to be seen. Even here on Smashboards, there's only 4 pages for the Lloyd thread (but I read the previous one got erased or something ?)

But still... Lloyd got a Mii Costume a the exact time of the ballot, so it DOES means he's at least do really well in the ballot.

Anyway, I haven't been able to figure if Lloyd is really popular or just anecdotal.

And of course, count me in for the support list !
Added.

I'd say that Lloyd's support only looks inconsistent because while he does have a lot of supporters, most people someone else they're campaigning for - that is, he's a lot of people's 2nd and 3rd choice, but not as many people's 1st choice. This is supported by the surge in support he saw after two of the biggest candidates were taken out of the running, K. Rool and Simon Belmont. He's clearly popular given that he earned himself a costume, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Also, as far as polls are concerned he seems to be doing fairly well. He just beat Shantae in the tournament poll, for example.
 
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blueneuronDOTnet

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Goodness, this seems to line up very well for Lloyd Irving becoming the definitive global choice as the 2nd Namco-rep, incase Heihachi's not included over him. Can't handle my excitement now!
Excited though I might be about this, I'm afraid that this wasn't the fact when the Smash Ultimate roster was picked, and that it might be a bit too late.
 

DogManStar

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Excited though I might be about this, I'm afraid that this wasn't the fact when the Smash Ultimate roster was picked, and that it might be a bit too late.
I don't think we're getting another Namco character for base game. DLC is a different story though. If Lloyd keeps this momentum up, he will be even more likely for DLC.
 
D

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When it comes to the idea of a 2nd Namco character, a Tales of rep is my preferred choice. And I think the two most likely are Lloyd and Yuri because of fan support as a Smash Bros. Candidate (Lloyd) and fan support as a Tales of character (Yuri).

Count me in as a Lloyd supporter.
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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I don't think we're getting another Namco character for base game. DLC is a different story though. If Lloyd keeps this momentum up, he will be even more likely for DLC.
I see no reason why we wouldn't. Bamco is co-developing the game, their most prominent candidates (Heihachi, Lloyd) require far less work than most characters, and their properties are both incredibly popular and highly relevant.

When it comes to the idea of a 2nd Namco character, a Tales of rep is my preferred choice. And I think the two most likely are Lloyd and Yuri because of fan support as a Smash Bros. Candidate (Lloyd) and fan support as a Tales of character (Yuri).

Count me in as a Lloyd supporter.
Added!
 

Pizza Robo

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I support Lloyd Irving to be playable for Super Smash Bros Ultimate plus Tales Of Symphonia was my first Tales Game :D
 
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