The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

[Ypsen]

I think most people are bored of fire emblem characters more than swordsmen in general. Just like Isaac has psynergy going for him Lloyd has the arts, that alone makes him special. He's also a dual blades wielder.

No, I'm not talking about that silly psychotic phobia that some smash fans have against swords, but what Sakurai said.
I mean, it's true that Lloyd doesn't have really interresting moveset besides his fancy swordplay (one or two swords, heck even an axe or a spear doesn't change anything). As I said, his artes translate well with the smash bros mechanics, but does this mean it's interresting and unique ? Because I can't see anything in Lloyd's artes which makes him stand out : just several multi, hits, projectiles and large jump and all. Ok, his skills are freaking wild and classy, I'm a huge fan of Lloyd's fighting style (my favorite among every Tales of protagonist), but I can't lie and say it's objectively interresting for a smash bros character.

Anyway, it's not a concern anymore since we know that Sakurai want to please everyone with Ultimate, by focusing on the ballot. There's also some nice idea just like the one I talk above. And we still have the ToS combo mechanics (artes level 1,2,3 which can be chained).

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Anyway, it's not a concern anymore since we know that Sakurai want to please everyone with Ultimate, by focusing on the ballot. There's also some nice idea just like the one I talk above. And we still have the ToS combo mechanics (artes level 1,2,3 which can be chained).

I believe this is true to an extent. I don't expect for all our biggest wishes to be granted and still have a few surprising characters.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Some months ago, I thought Lloyd was really unlikely because one thing Sakurai said about sword characters in an interview (wich I can't find anymore) about the inclusion of Robin instead of Chrom or about Shulk (can't remember well). He says that he always favor character with an interesting characteristic, rather than a character who doesn't stand out outside of his swordplay.
Except the combo mechanics wich was already taken by Bayonetta (and create a lot of balance issues), I couldn't find anything to justify an interessting moveset for Lloyd, outside the fact that his original moveset translate well in a smash game.

When I told that to my best friend, a casual smash and Tales of player, he told me :
-What about that mechanics in ToS which changes your skills depending on what you use in combat ?
- ... Wut ?
- Yeah, you know... the arrow meter with the "S" and "T" which defines the skills you learn...

I was ashamed that I never thought about it, since I'm a huge fan of ToS. It's actualy a neat idea which reflect the ToS mechanics. It would make Lloyd the first character with two set of skills (maybe only the specials) depending on how you play. I could definitely see that mechanic in Smash. It's less complicated than Robin or Shulk imo.

What do you think ?

Lloyd has tons of potential to be unique - dual swords, S/T system, TP mechanics, and the arte system. I have no doubt that Sakurai could make him feel unique, so I doubt that that'd be an issue.

 

[Ypsen]

I don't understand the dual sword argument... How does this make the moveset interesting and better besides the visual effects ? I saw the same argument about some FE characters and Bandana Dee, but I don't think the weapon that the character wields is meaningful.

S/T system : yeah, definitively the best Idea I heard about.

TP mechanics : Is this really coherent in a smash game ? Every character can use with no restriction their skills but Lloyd couldn't ? Yeah, there's Robin, but Robin has a nice gimmick with his tomes and swords he can toss away. It also translate very well the FE durability mechanics. Plus Daraen cast spell with wide range. What will justify that Lloyd would stop using a part of his moveset ? Also, the TP systeme is kinda plain I think, and if Sakurai would implement it, I think he will save it for RPG mage or something.

Arte system : You mean the level arte system, implying combo ? It's the first mechanics that I came across. It could be cool, but hard to balance. Sakurai could seen the Bayonnetta issues as a deal breaker.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Is this the Lloyd Irving Thread? Hell yeah, sign me up my brothers and sisters!!

Added!

I don't understand the dual sword argument... How does this make the moveset interesting and better besides the visual effects ? I saw the same argument about some FE characters and Bandana Dee, but I don't think the weapon that the character wields is meaningful.

S/T system : yeah, definitively the best Idea I heard about.

TP mechanics : Is this really coherent in a smash game ? Every character can use with no restriction their skills but Lloyd couldn't ? Yeah, there's Robin, but Robin has a nice gimmick with his tomes and swords he can toss away. It also translate very well the FE durability mechanics. Plus Daraen cast spell with wide range. What will justify that Lloyd would stop using a part of his moveset ? Also, the TP systeme is kinda plain I think, and if Sakurai would implement it, I think he will save it for RPG mage or something.

Arte system : You mean the level arte system, implying combo ? It's the first mechanics that I came across. It could be cool, but hard to balance. Sakurai could seen the Bayonnetta issues as a deal breaker.

The dual swords allow for some moves single swords wouldn't - consider stuff like Demonic Chaos or Tempest.

As for the TP mechanics, check out this:

So the TP would simply allow him to amend and improve his moveset rather than rob him of any moves.

 

[Ypsen]

Added!


The dual swords allow for some moves single swords wouldn't - consider stuff like Demonic Chaos or Tempest.

As for the TP mechanics, check out this:

So the TP would simply allow him to amend and improve his moveset rather than rob him of any moves.

I like this Idea, it could be interesting indeed.

Again, I don't see the difference between dual or single sword. Several character from Tales of does the same moves that Lloyd does but with a hammer, single sword and whatnot. Even the Mii Swordfighter have Lloyd's moves like tempest and sword rain with only one sword. If Sakurai want to implement a move, I don't think the look of the weapon would change anything, unless it has interesting properties like Simon's whip, the Monado or the Yato. Dual Sword just make his style more classy (and awesome).
Same thing with people who think Hector or Bandana Dee stand out because of their weapon. If Sakurai want a long range character, he will search someone with an interesting gameplay, like Shulk or Simon, not just because the character has a spear. Same thing with the Axe, what could Hector bring outside the fact he strikes strong and being heavy ? As for Lloyd, I don't see what his dual swords brings. You would need that one of his sword breaks, or each of his swords have a different input or something like that to make his dual swords meaningful... but it wouldn't be true to his source material.

 

[AustarusIV]

Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite RPGs, and of all the potential Namco newcomers I'd be most hyped for Lloyd. So consider me a supporter.

 

[ryuu seika]

The dual swords allow for some moves single swords wouldn't - consider stuff like Demonic Chaos or Tempest.

I don't know about Demonic Chaos but Tempest Strike is a move throughout the entire series. Plenty of single sword swordsmen use it.

As for the TP mechanics, check out this:

So the TP would simply allow him to amend and improve his moveset rather than rob him of any moves.

TP acting as FoF seems weird to me and I'm still not fond of character energy bars being added to Smash but, as unnecessary character gimmicks go, this is the most likeable proposal that I've seen yet.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I like the TP idea, it would force the player to balance strategically their attacks rather than spamming the smash button.

I just rewatched a video with all of Lloyd's artes it's just scary how well he would fit in smash, it's almost as if Sakurai would just need to copy / paste him.
I believe we agree he should have at least a tempest move and the angel wings as a recovery ?
And he should wield the Material blades.

 

[ryuu seika]

I like the TP idea, it would force the player to balance strategically their attacks rather than spamming the smash button.
I just rewatched a video with all of Lloyd's artes it's just scary how well he would fit in smash, it's almost as if Sakurai would just need to copy / paste him.
I believe we agree he should have at least a tempest move and the angel wings as a recovery ?
And he should wield the Material blades.

Angel wings is definitely NOT recovery material. Maybe during Falcon's Crest for his Final Smash but not anywhere else and, even then, it might be kind of spoilery.
His recovery moves should be Tempest Strike and Rising Falcon.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Angel wings is definitely NOT recovery material. Maybe during Falcon's Crest for his Final Smash but not anywhere else and, even then, it might be kind of spoilery.
His recovery moves should be Tempest Strike and Rising Falcon.

Spoilery ? In a game where the biggest plot twist of Xenoblade is just chilling there in Shulk final smash I think it's not an issue

 

[VashTehStampede]

Left the timestamp there, dont know if it's been posted but if they really used the ballot to gauge the fans for their wants/requests then Lloyd chances got even higher https://youtu.be/gqYnzuV6Lsw?t=3h25m58s

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

TP acting as FoF seems weird to me and I'm still not fond of character energy bars being added to Smash but, as unnecessary character gimmicks go, this is the most likeable proposal that I've seen yet.

It's not different from Cloud's Limit mechanic, really. You just charge it by landing hits rather than charging up.

Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite RPGs, and of all the potential Namco newcomers I'd be most hyped for Lloyd. So consider me a supporter.

Added! That officially brings us to 40 supporters.

 

[VashTehStampede]

Dont think you've added me Bud!

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Dont think you've added me Bud!

My bad. Added!

 

[VashTehStampede]

Ok guys, I got one more little Lloyd thing/idea to talk about, this is something I drew inspiration from after rewatching the isabelle trailer. So imagine the top dogs fighting it out, think of the beginning of the megaman reveal trailer. So link and mario are fighting and samus and pikachu are going up against ridley and such. There's a sudden moment where 4 of them are rushing at each other and right before the big clash there's a white light and all you see is a jewel over a hand. Then it fades to black and Raine says "Lloyd irving wake up!" and it's in the style of symphonia, genis runs up saying something came for him and when he looks down it's the smash print over the letter. Then boom, transition into the gameplay portion of the trailer. That would be sooooooooo gooood

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Ok guys, I got one more little Lloyd thing/idea to talk about, this is something I drew inspiration from after rewatching the isabelle trailer. So imagine the top dogs fighting it out, think of the beginning of the megaman reveal trailer. So link and mario are fighting and samus and pikachu are going up against ridley and such. There's a sudden moment where 4 of them are rushing at each other and right before the big clash there's a white light and all you see is a jewel over a hand. Then it fades to black and Raine says "Lloyd irving wake up!" and it's in the style of symphonia, genis runs up saying something came for him and when he looks down it's the smash print over the letter. Then boom, transition into the gameplay portion of the trailer. That would be sooooooooo gooood

That does sound neat, but I doubt that they'll bring in other Symphonia VAs just for his reveal.

In other news, there's a new theory floating around - the Blog Theory - which supposes that there are 6 to 8 newcomers left. Should that number hold, I have a hard time imagining Sakurai adding 8 characters and not including Lloyd.

 

[VashTehStampede]

That does sound neat, but I doubt that they'll bring in other Symphonia VAs just for his reveal.

In other news, there's a new theory floating around - the Blog Theory - which supposes that there are 6 to 8 newcomers left. Should that number hold, I have a hard time imagining Sakurai adding 8 characters and not including Lloyd.

Wow that is some pretty cool detective work on their part. This is really exciting news!! I'll keep my fingers crossed because definitely, 6-8 should be plenty to have Lloyd take a spot. What surprises me however is from all the threads and reddit posts and discord servers. I dont know how most people dont acknowledge Lloyd as a potential. It really baffles me

We might have info coming, check out this tweet

This was a big wish for alot of people, this goes back to my thoughts on what merits echo, and what merits alts? Like will ken be an alt skin, shadow? or zack for cloud?

since alph is a alt skin and now meta ridley

this opens up so many options

like alt skin captain k.rool could be a thing

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Lloyd is up against Banjo in the tournament poll. Vote, folks!

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Lloyd is my most wanted character in Smash Bros and has been since Brawl. I WANT HIM soooo badly. Consider me a supporter.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Lloyd is my most wanted character in Smash Bros and has been since Brawl. I WANT HIM soooo badly. Consider me a supporter.

Added!

 

[Icedragonadam]

So did you see the Bethesda Theory?

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-bethesda-theory.458572/

Supposedly 5 characters have been hinted at, including Lloyd and Heihachi.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

So did you see the Bethesda Theory?

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-bethesda-theory.458572/

Supposedly 5 characters have been hinted at, including Lloyd and Heihachi.

I've seen it, but it seems pretty absurd.

 

[VashTehStampede]

Really hoping the 108 + smash blog break down works into one another because if that's the case Im really really optimistic Lloyd will get his chance for Ultimate!

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Really hoping the 108 + smash blog break down works into one another because if that's the case Im really really optimistic Lloyd will get his chance for Ultimate!

Aye, ditto. Doubt they'd add that many characters and not include Lloyd.

In other news, looks like the tournament poll is having a recount. Vote here.

 

[VashTehStampede]

Aye, ditto. Doubt they'd add that many characters and not include Lloyd.

In other news, looks like the tournament poll is having a recount. Vote here.

Yikes, not looking good for our boy here

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Yikes, not looking good for our boy here

I mean, he's up against the strongest character in the tournament. Not a surprise.

 

[VashTehStampede]

I just realized there's actually a track in ToS called Final Destination Sakurai please, do what's right.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

I just realized there's actually a track in ToS called Final Destination Sakurai please, do what's right.

Forgot about that.

I made a bunch of threads spreading the word about the factors pointing towards Lloyd on the three major boards:
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...ost_underestimated_candidate_change_my_mind/?
GameFAQs: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77022319
SmashBoards: https://smashboards.com/threads/the-most-underestimated-candidate-change-my-mind.458631/

 

[VashTehStampede]

Forgot about that.

I made a bunch of threads spreading the word about the factors pointing towards Lloyd on the three major boards:
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...ost_underestimated_candidate_change_my_mind/?
GameFAQs: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77022319
SmashBoards: https://smashboards.com/threads/the-most-underestimated-candidate-change-my-mind.458631/

Such a good job here man, cant stress enough how awesome your dedication is, I didnt even know about the voice actor being short or non-responsive with smash questions. That's such a good sign

 

[IsmaR]

Forgot about that.

I made a bunch of threads spreading the word about the factors pointing towards Lloyd on the three major boards:
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...ost_underestimated_candidate_change_my_mind/?
GameFAQs: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77022319
SmashBoards: https://smashboards.com/threads/the-most-underestimated-candidate-change-my-mind.458631/

For future record, we don't allow these type of clickbait threads/crossposts.

Anything that's already covered by another thread (this one in this case) usually leads to the threads getting merged/the newer one closed.

Not to say it's not a good write-up that had some good effort put into it.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

For future record, we don't allow these type of clickbait threads/crossposts.

Anything that's already covered by another thread (this one in this case) usually leads to the threads getting merged/the newer one closed.

Not to say it's not a good write-up that had some good effort put into it.

Aah, my bad. Can I post the write-up in the Newcomer Speculation thread, at least?

 

[IsmaR]

I see no problem with that.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

I see no problem with that.

Cheers, done.

Also, Lloyd lost to Banjo (though that was to be expected), so he's up against Incineroar in the loser's bracket:
https://pinpoll.com/embed/62622

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Accidental double post.

 

[Tiymako]

Lloyd bros! We are gonna skin that Incineroar alive! Sword bros need to stick together! You have my vote folks! Banjo was a tough nut to crack, let's hope us Isaac fans can stick it to Bear - Bird. *sweats*

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

The "Tales" series could totally use some love in Smash. I'm a Lloyd Irving supporter!

 

[VashTehStampede]

Our boy Lloyd beat incineroar. Heck yeah, glad to see him go for, I'm hoping for top 5 at least!

 

[Deleted member]

So glad Lloyd beat Incineroar. Incineroar was one of my least wanted newcomers, along with Steve and Dante. Go Lloyd!

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't understand how it was even close. Why would anyone want Inceneroar when he's not even the most interesting candidate from his own series?
The Banjo win I could have predicted, though. I didn't vote for either there because they're both equal wants in my mind, right at the top of my list.