The Dangers of 1.0.4 Patch

[Yackabean]

It's been recently announced that there is going to be a 1.0.4 patch that will balance and fix a few things within smash. This could be detrimental to toon link as the simplest patching of Bomb Lag Cancel can seriously hurt us. I'm praying for dear life it doesn't get patched but god these patches are getting scarier and scarier each time we get one and this patch is ACTUALLY balancing the game this time rendering replays useless.

Let's all hope and pray this doesn't become the case with toon link though...

 

[Deleted member]

Considering BLC isn't in the Wii U version, it's highly unlikely that the update doesn't remove BLC. :/ Which really stinks, since TL didn't need to be nerfed from Brawl yet got tons of undeserved nerfs. So much for Sakurai's "balancing" job, once again.

 

[Yackabean]

For some reason I predicted wii u wouldn't have it... Hope it ain't true tho

 

[Cyre]

I'm going to keep playing toon link if this happens. I will definitely be rioting though.

 

[Los4Muros]

If Toon Link has been considered a mess compared to SSB4 version. Maybe they'll take away the BLC, but add some few new upgrades to his moves. Samus lost her Missile Cancel, but she got some other upgrades making it a small matter. Yet Samus does need a lot of patching. But same could happen to Toon Link.

 

[Yackabean]

Without BLC, Toon Link becomes a watered down version of brawl toon link. And not a good kind.

 

[-Champ-]

/not sure if its not in the wii u verison yet. I heard that it was an older build. PLEASE LET THIS BE TRUE

 

[Yackabean]

I don't understand how and older build would have LESS glitches though? Who knows. Maybe there will be a Wii U update a long with 3DS that brings back everything. It would make sense why zair acts differently in the Wii U version considering that was it's older traditional way of dropping items without zairing. I hope he doesn't update it to the new thing in with dropping items + removing BLC or I'm definitely losing all hope for my favorite character :/

 

[Kunai KazeKun]

Need a Video to see how BLC works on DAIR. I mean I play him without it and i play very good with him.
He is like projectile combos all day + his uptilt to uair is really nice or his Fair. I dont like that his grab got nerved in Range, but it looks like its still the same move with another animation (his Grab Game is really good).

Does exist any videos to this BLC?
Ok found the description. Well it was ok, but this makes TL not so bad after all.

I also saw that his uptilt does 1 % more damage or 5,X% now not sure.

 

[Yackabean]

Toon Links new projectile combo game reminds ke s lot of what he can do in Project M actually. It's what makes him shine in smash 4 aside from BLC. In brawl we couldn't do this due to the lack of hitstun.

And his up-tilt does 1% more damage? Can you show any video proof of this anywhere? I might go have a look around some Wii U footage just now.

 

[Scamper52596]

Toon Links new projectile combo game reminds ke s lot of what he can do in Project M actually. It's what makes him shine in smash 4 aside from BLC. In brawl we couldn't do this due to the lack of hitstun.

And his up-tilt does 1% more damage? Can you show any video proof of this anywhere? I might go have a look around some Wii U footage just now.

Found it at about 1:17. Link goes from 69% to 75% after getting it by Toon Link's Up-Tilt.
http://youtu.be/krLOHkoLa3c?list=UUVNPMJhruxR3BwNYa-e0eig

 

[Yackabean]

Found it at about 1:17. Link goes from 69% to 75% after getting it by Toon Link's Up-Tilt.
http://youtu.be/krLOHkoLa3c?list=UUVNPMJhruxR3BwNYa-e0eig

Nice find! Through further investigation it seems our jab combo now does 10% instead of 9%
The last jab now deals 5% as oppose to 4%

However at one point the Wii U version does do a 9% jab combo. No clue how, probably stale or something. This video misses sooo many attacks though, gonna look at beanjr's Toon link vs Bowser video and see other changes to percents

 

[Deleted member]

So apparently someone by the name of Toronto Joe is saying TL's BLC is still in. I have no idea who this person is, but people seem to take him seriously. I still very highly doubt he's right, but I would love to be proven wrong.

Also, hopefully this new utilt helps increase the amount of damage that utilt>utilt combos do. I'm going to be a little annoyed if they end up not being able to last long enough to do as much damage. BLC being gone would be bad enough already, TL really doesn't need his already-nonexistent combo ability getting nerfed, too.

 

[BBC7]

So apparently someone by the name of Toronto Joe is saying TL's BLC is still in. I have no idea who this person is, but people seem to take him seriously. I still doubt he's right, but I really hope that he is.

Also, hopefully this new utilt helps increase the amount of damage that utilt>utilt combos do. I'm going to be a little annoyed if they end up not being able to last long enough to do as much damage. BLC being gone would be bad enough already, TL really doesn't need his already-nonexistent combo ability getting nerfed, too.

Toronto Joe is a highly achieved Canadian smasher that is well known for hosting Canadian Apex qualifiers at York University, one of the most well-known Canadian universities. He's even played with M2K a few times in Doubles at tourneys. I'd say he's tough **** in a good way.

 

[Yackabean]

I think toronto joe is on to something!

Did some more testing. Knockback in previous versions such as 1.0.2 had occassional percentage differences for no reason. I looked at some footage around of toon link on Wii U doing 9% Jabs and 5% uptilts and 12% fairs instead of 13%.

In training mode even when trying to stale things or changing scenarios I can NEVER get up tilt to do 6%. Then i looked at one of my youtube vids from 1.0.2 and long and behold I did a double up tilt to Zard and saw both 5% and then a 6% hit after it.

My theory is just now that the review copies that have been given out are working on a version the 3DS wasn't even ran on hence why the online isn't working yet either. Think of it as a 0.9.0 copy. Once an update is out to activate online and play like 3DS (1.0.4) we may or may not have BLC returning. This is kinda reaching but hell if Toronto Joe is saying it 's back I'll believe him over people on the troll Link boards.

Can you please provide a source of Toronto Joe confirming this? @Dr. Artemis

 

[Deleted member]

BBC's post here is the most recent thing I've seen about Toronto Joe saying this. http://smashboards.com/threads/upcoming-1-0-4-balance-patch-in-november.377315/page-10 I haven't seen anything from Toronto Joe himself saying this, though. For all I know it could just be the telephone game effect, and he could've really said something completely different, or it could've even been an entirely different person who said this for all we know.

 

[♫ Zura ♫]

Some people have the game early, if anyone has access to msg them and ask them about the BLC, that would be just great. I'm also iffy about it, I over heard rumors that they did take this out on the new patch, but I've yet to see it and have it confirmed for 100%. Anyone have any new info on this?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Sigh. Ok, so first of all, while I've forgotten the specifics, it was found earlier on that training mode often deals out less damage, accounting for many people reporting strange 1% differences. So the whole 'Toon's moves got a buff of 1% extra damage' is most likely just another example of people not knowing this. Read up if you're interested. http://smashboards.com/threads/quic...echniques-general.368206/page-3#post-17639196 (the replies as well.)

Also, I had already investigated Toronto's post in his thread, the one that supposedly confirmed that the BLC was still in. Let's see if I can find it again... here it is
http://smashboards.com/threads/i-re...o-for-you-all-ama.376850/page-6#post-17962287
In response to the question "PLEASE tell me Toon Link still has his bomb cancel? Don't know if you know how to do it, try holding a bomb, dodging into the ground and doing down b to see if it cancels the landing lag please!" he answers "pretty sure this is still in, he cancels the lag by throwing the bomb correct? let me know and ill test further if not"
I'll let you be the judge of that, but I personally am not taking this as confirmation that the BLC is still in especially considering this is the only positive confirmation we've heard about it. As it is, it wasn't even a very clear confirmation (the questioner asked for an ambiguous test when it would have been far more obvious to test to see if it cancelled hitstun or the lag of a Dair, and the response wasn't confident enough). [Might I also just note that in the same post he claims that rush cancelling is gone even though everyone else claims it is still in. Just saying.] But it doesn't matter. Read around the boards yourselves please. The Peach boards, for example, have their own people with the game that have confirmed that their toss lag cancel is gone, and it works upon the exact same mechanics. If you're still not convinced, try asking one of their people. I can guarantee you they'll get back to you sooner and with more definitiveness than Toronto. (nothing against the guy mind you; he seems to be very busy is all.)
The only way that the wii-u would come out and still have the BLC intact would be if Nintendo decided to put the originally unintended glitch back in because they heard people liked it so much, and if we're all honest with ourselves, this is not going to happen.
If anyone wants to speculate as to whether it is in or not, I invite you to do so as long as you are backed up with research and evidence, otherwise don't bother getting people's hopes up.

 

[Deleted member]

Sigh. Ok, so first of all, while I've forgotten the specifics, it was found earlier on that training mode often deals out less damage, accounting for many people reporting strange 1% differences. So the whole 'Toon's moves got a buff of 1% extra damage' is most likely just another example of people not knowing this. Read up if you're interested. http://smashboards.com/threads/quic...echniques-general.368206/page-3#post-17639196 (the replies as well.)

I tested TL's jab in vs mode and it does 9% there, not 10%, so it looks like the move really is getting buffed. As for the training thing, it looked to me like they were talking about the sandbag in the waiting room. I see how it seems like it could also apply in training mode since moves don't stale in there and apparently they don't stale against the sandbag either, but I get 9% from jabs in both training and vs modes.

Also, I had already investigated Toronto's post in his thread, the one that supposedly confirmed that the BLC was still in. Let's see if I can find it again... here it is
http://smashboards.com/threads/i-re...o-for-you-all-ama.376850/page-6#post-17962287
In response to the question "PLEASE tell me Toon Link still has his bomb cancel? Don't know if you know how to do it, try holding a bomb, dodging into the ground and doing down b to see if it cancels the landing lag please!" he answers "pretty sure this is still in, he cancels the lag by throwing the bomb correct? let me know and ill test further if not"
I'll let you be the judge of that, but I personally am not taking this as confirmation that the BLC is still in especially considering this is the only positive confirmation we've heard about it. As it is, it wasn't even a very clear confirmation (the questioner asked for an ambiguous test when it would have been far more obvious to test to see if it cancelled hitstun or the lag of a Dair, and the response wasn't confident enough). [Might I also just note that in the same post he claims that rush cancelling is gone even though everyone else claims it is still in. Just saying.] But it doesn't matter. Read around the boards yourselves please. The Peach boards, for example, have their own people with the game that have confirmed that their toss lag cancel is gone, and it works upon the exact same mechanics. If you're still not convinced, try asking one of their people. I can guarantee you they'll get back to you sooner and with more definitiveness than Toronto. (nothing against the guy mind you; he seems to be very busy is all.)
The only way that the wii-u would come out and still have the BLC intact would be if Nintendo decided to put the originally unintended glitch back in because they heard people liked it so much, and if we're all honest with ourselves, this is not going to happen.
If anyone wants to speculate as to whether it is in or not, I invite you to do so as long as you are backed up with research and evidence, otherwise don't bother getting people's hopes up.

I figured something like this was probably the case, but couldn't investigate it myself thanks to my computer crapping up and now only having a 3DS and broken gamepad for internet. Just wanted to make completely sure we weren't stressing out over something confirmed to not be true, and tried to make it as clear in my posts as possible that the BLC thing with Toronto Joe wasn't confirmed so no one would get their hopes up.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I tested TL's jab in vs mode and it does 9% there, not 10%, so it looks like the move really is getting buffed. As for the training thing, it looked to me like they were talking about the sandbag in the waiting room. I see how it seems like it could also apply in training mode since moves don't stale in there and apparently they don't stale against the sandbag either, but I get 9% from jabs in both training and vs modes.


I figured something like this was probably the case, but couldn't investigate it myself thanks to my computer crapping up and now only having a 3DS and broken gamepad for internet. Just wanted to make completely sure we weren't stressing out over something confirmed to not be true, and tried to make it as clear in my posts as possible that the BLC thing with Toronto Joe wasn't confirmed so no one would get their hopes up.

You're quite right about the sandbag thing; it had been a while and all I remembered was that there was general discussion on various ways that percents can seem to differ. I just thought it was possible that in the examples where it did 1 percent more it was one of those integer type situations where it just so happened to add up to that extra 1% that is displayed. We won't really know until we get the wii-u version I guess. Many of Toon's attacks do need a percentage buff though, you know, to bring it back to where it was in Brawl.

There has been wide-spread confusion about these things. I don't think it was handled very well tbh. There should have been a central thread with an OP listing all the confirmed changes etc in the very least. People wanted answers and they weren't getting them either because the people that had the early release who made themselves available weren't in fact available or visa versa.
Things were so much simpler when patching wasn't an option. They just made more effort with their bug testing, sent it out and that was it.

 

[Deleted member]

1.0.4 was just released. I don't feel like downloading it right now. For those who've downloaded it, what changed for TL?

 

[Dr[?}]

Rumor has it that the bomb lag cancel is gone

 

[Deleted member]

Rumor has it that the bomb lag cancel is gone

Now that the update is out we should be able to confirm if this is true or not. It's only been out for a few minutes, so I doubt it's been tested yet.


EDIT: My friend who mains Link just tried BLC with TL. It's gone. RIP Toon Link

EDIT EDIT: Trying to drop a bomb with L is exactly the same as it was in 1.0.3 and earlier. His moves' knockbacks were unchanged. Utilt still does 5%. The only thing positive TL got out of this update was an extra 1% on his jab, making it deal a total of 10%.

EDIT EDIT EDIT: I don't know where people got the extra 1% on TL's jab from, but all of TL's attacks do the same damage as before, his jab included. This update did nothing but nerf him.

 

[deech]

No changes to zair-item dropping.

BLC gone.
-.-

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

In other words, the worst possible outcome that no-one saw coming.
I need a moment.

 

[Deleted member]

I keep hearing people say that TL's jab got a buff of an extra 1% damage, but I just updated and am still getting 9% just like before. So yeah, it looks to me like TL was only nerfed, and didn't even get a tiny buff on his jab or anything. Honestly, with the way TL was nerfed from Brawl to the early versions of SSB4 to SSB4 1.0.4, you'd think TL had been sharing the top of the tier list in Brawl with MK rather than being mid tier. I really hope we eventually get an update that at least gives TL's attacks the same damage as the Wii U version, and the z bomb drop. This is Sakurai's game we're talking about, though...

 

[Kinslayer]

I keep hearing people say that TL's jab got a buff of an extra 1% damage, but I just updated and am still getting 9% just like before. So yeah, it looks to me like TL was only nerfed, and didn't even get a tiny buff on his jab or anything. Honestly, with the way TL was nerfed from Brawl to the early versions of SSB4 to SSB4 1.0.4, you'd think TL had been sharing the top of the tier list in Brawl with MK rather than being mid tier. I really hope we eventually get an update that at least gives TL's attacks the same damage as the Wii U version, and the z bomb drop. This is Sakurai's game we're talking about, though...

This patch is everything that will be on the wii u version to my understanding.

 

[Deleted member]

This patch is everything that will be on the wii u version to my understanding.

There are a bunch of differences between the 3DS and Wii U versions that weren't corrected in the patch. Adding things just for the Wii U demo then removing them in the final version would be strange, so I highly doubt that's what happened. Hopefully the changes in the Wii U version end up getting ported over to the 3DS version eventually. In the meantime, I'm praying customs stay legal on the 3DS version, because TL without BLC sucks without them and without the changes in the Wii U version (mainly z bomb drop).

 

[♫ Zura ♫]

Tis a sad day...

 

[Fangblade]

There are a bunch of differences between the 3DS and Wii U versions that weren't corrected in the patch. Adding things just for the Wii U demo then removing them in the final version would be strange, so I highly doubt that's what happened. Hopefully the changes in the Wii U version end up getting ported over to the 3DS version eventually. In the meantime, I'm praying customs stay legal on the 3DS version, because TL without BLC sucks without them and without the changes in the Wii U version (names z bomb drop).

I hope they're done w/ serious patches, my SD card can't hold anymore data...

 

[Yackabean]

On the bright side, Brawl doesn't take out fun stuff.

Playing around without BLC I can see we can still do a lot out of bombs. The fact all our throws still only do 7% baffles me it's so weak...
This jab thing as well is making no sense to me. Shulk got a ridiculous amount of damage increases and we got close to nothing.
Did Dair do 15-16% before btw, cause jesus that's strong... (And still useless)

Also the zair nonsense, I'm immensely ticked off we still drop bombs.

 

[Deleted member]

On the bright side, Brawl doesn't take out fun stuff.

Playing around without BLC I can see we can still do a lot out of bombs. The fact all our throws still only do 7% baffles me it's so weak...
This jab thing as well is making no sense to me. Shulk got a ridiculous amount of damage increases and we got close to nothing.
Did Dair do 15-16% before btw, cause jesus that's strong... (And still useless)

Also the zair nonsense, I'm immensely ticked off we still drop bombs.

I tested moves in vs mode several times before updating to get their percentages, then checked them after updating. Nothing was changed about TL except BLC being gone. I think people getting 10% on TL's jab must've been a mistake, because I still get 9% every time. And TL feels slow as heck to me without BLC, but at least on the bright side I guess maybe it encourages mixing up your projectiles more?... Yeah, that's all I can think of. I guess all we can do at this point is hope TL gets buffed in the future. Or we could sandbag on for glory and hope it results in our moves getting damage buffs just like with Little Mac. (I'm kidding, obviously that wouldn't work)
At least on the bright side, TL doesn't hurt himself like Pichu in Melee (even if his dair does still kill him even when it hits). That's a pretty big plus... Right?
Fortunately for me the local tournament I go to decided they're definitely keeping customs legal on the 3DS, so at least that'll be a big help where I live. Hopefully other tournaments will end up doing the same thing, since that would be a huge help with making up for TL's BLC being gone. Even better if there'd also be some way to have customs legal on the Wii U version as well without it being a huge hassle, even if I doubt there is any way that could be done.


EDIT: Actually, I just noticed in the notes I had on the damage percentages that I seem to have missed testing dair in 1.0.4. In 1.0.3 it did 17%, it now does 16%. So dair appears to have actually been nerfed........ Go figure.....

 

[TLMSheikant]

Fair can now autocancel from a Short Hop.

Err, what I mean but that is, the animation is done and u can jump out of it. You still get landing lag if u dont jump out of it.

 

[Deleted member]

Fair can now autocancel from a Short Hop.

Err, what I mean but that is, the animation is done and u can jump out of it. You still get landing lag if u dont jump out of it.

Has anyone with access to both 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 confirmed this? I ask because I've been hearing other stuff about TL that ended up being deconfirmed, like a lot of people were saying that his bair and dair had less landing lag.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Has anyone with access to both 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 confirmed this? I ask because I've been hearing other stuff about TL that ended up being deconfirmed, like a lot of people were saying that his bair and dair had less landing lag.

I am like 95% sure it wasn't possible before. As I researched this character extensively in the lab before. This is the only change for TL ive noticed so far aside from...BLC...RIP. Though short-fuse bombs have been giving me weird % readings. I don't understand them anymore. I haven't been able to get them to do 14%.

 

[Deleted member]

I am like 95% sure it wasn't possible before. As I researched this character extensively in the lab before. This is the only change for TL ive noticed so far aside from...BLC...RIP. Though short-fuse bombs have been giving me weird % readings. I don't understand them anymore. I haven't been able to get them to do 14%.

Short-fuse bombs always gave me 10% in 1.0.3 unless they were stale. Also, you should ask about the fair thing in here, since someone here should be able to confirm if it's true or not: http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/page-10#post-18004280


Edit: I just decided to try sh fair for myself, and it definitely doesn't auto cancel. Its landing lag is as horrendous as ever.

 

[PRGN]

Airdodge Zair Blc, was one of the most useful things imo. All gone now =/
Though it feels as if his bomb throw animation is a littlebit faster. But maybe im wrong.

 

[Kinslayer]

I tested moves in vs mode several times before updating to get their percentages, then checked them after updating. Nothing was changed about TL except BLC being gone. I think people getting 10% on TL's jab must've been a mistake, because I still get 9% every time. And TL feels slow as heck to me without BLC, but at least on the bright side I guess maybe it encourages mixing up your projectiles more?... Yeah, that's all I can think of. I guess all we can do at this point is hope TL gets buffed in the future. Or we could sandbag on for glory and hope it results in our moves getting damage buffs just like with Little Mac. (I'm kidding, obviously that wouldn't work)
At least on the bright side, TL doesn't hurt himself like Pichu in Melee (even if his dair does still kill him even when it hits). That's a pretty big plus... Right?
Fortunately for me the local tournament I go to decided they're definitely keeping customs legal on the 3DS, so at least that'll be a big help where I live. Hopefully other tournaments will end up doing the same thing, since that would be a huge help with making up for TL's BLC being gone. Even better if there'd also be some way to have customs legal on the Wii U version as well without it being a huge hassle, even if I doubt there is any way that could be done.


EDIT: Actually, I just noticed in the notes I had on the damage percentages that I seem to have missed testing dair in 1.0.4. In 1.0.3 it did 17%, it now does 16%. So dair appears to have actually been nerfed........ Go figure.....

Toon link isn't slower he just don't have the glitch he wasn't supposed to have in the first place. Toon link will continue to be an awesome zoner. We just have to pick our spots to pull our bombs better

Also bomb throw animation isn't faster that's just the placebo effect

 

[TLMSheikant]

Finally got to test 1.0.3 again and I can confirm that SH fair can be jumped out of before touching the ground in the old version. It's just something I had missed previously. Only TL change was BLC gone then. :/ Maybe a future update will give him Brawl bair...one can dream...RIP

 

[Deleted member]

Finally got to test 1.0.3 again and I can confirm that SH fair can be jumped out of before touching the ground in the old version. It's just something I had missed previously. Only TL change was BLC gone then. :/ Maybe a future update will give him Brawl bair...one can dream...RIP

Are you still able to test 1.0.3? Before updating I got TL's attack percentages and his dair did 17%, and now it does 16%. Not really the biggest change, but I'm curious if his dair really was nerfed or if I made a mistake somewhere.