The D3 Video Lounge

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
#1
Welcome to the general purpose DDD video thread, intended for all things DDD-video-related. If you're looking for critique, if you want to share what you learned from certain matches, or if you just want to show off your games for whatever other reason, feel free to here.

I have recent videos to talk about, and in the interest of not cluttering the OP, I'll put them and my comments on them in collapse tags.

Fly (DDD) vs. BadGuy (Bowser) 1-12
Fly (DDD) vs. BadGuy (Bowser) 13-16

I had the chance to sit down and play Cencal's Bowser main for several hours, which was nice since it gave me a chance to sit down and learn how that match-up seems to work. Some comments on how I feel the MU goes:

Bowser is a very misleading character in a lot of ways. His moves reach farther than you might think they do and they sometimes have less lag than you'd imagine. These factors, together with strange ledge tricks, a good command grab, armor on lots of his moves, and a pullback fsmash, make him strange to fight against, and lots of standard options that are reasonable on other characters don't work very well on him.

Conveniently, DDD's big strength over Bowser, his general range advantage, helps mitigate a lot of this weirdness. DDD is good at keeping Bowser at out with ftilt and full hop fair, amongst other things. You can also afford to go airborne often against Bowser a frequently, since you beat him both horizontally and from above when in the air. Amusingly, in some ways it's better to be above Bowser than below him, because when he's directly above you, he can descend with nair (which has armor and will eat through your nair/uair/etc) or side-B (which also beats lots of moves and will hit you if you shield in anticipation of a nair). Aside from the case where Bowser is directly above you in the air, however, he's less threatening. If you're near max ftilt range and he descending, you can just poke him as he lands relatively easily. If not, you might be able to catch him out of his descent with fair; if you're a little close for comfort as he descends, you can sometimes run away then RAR fair him as he lands. Generally speaking, I feel like most of the match-up is just maintaining a good position against Bowser and getting him to fall into your attacks.

Some other comments:
-If you find yourself grabbed by his side-B and you expect him to throw forward, try to condition yourself to always DI away from this. DIing gives him a free aerial.

-Watch out for flame cancels. It's relatively safe on landing unless you're able to get over it quickly and it reaches deceptively far. If you find yourself hit by it, try to SDI down and away and shield. What you do next depends on a few factors. If you think he'll stop the firebreath soon, you can try just waiting in your shield and then hitting his face with sh fair as he stops; I don't know under what circumstances this is guaranteed. If you think he's going to keep doing firebreath, you can try to roll away. If you're near the max range of firebreath, it's often good to just sit in your shield and wait until it no longer reaches you. My overall recommendation would be not to challenge it too much unless you're reasonably sure you can get a solid punishment on it. It's fine to just take 20% and reset to a neutral position, considering DDD probably beats Bowser in the neutral game anyways, instead of possibly gambling on a more substantial punishment, which to an extent might be playing into Bowser's territory.

-Be wary of the pullback on fsmash. This is nothing new, as Bowser did it in Melee, too, but it's still worth looking out for, especially since it's a good grab punishment and it's tempting to grab Bowser a lot as DDD. If you think you just might be able to grab Bowser as he finishes lagging from something, be aware that Bowser might just be able to pullback and fsmash you instead; the risk vs. reward definitely favors him, so if you think he might be able to fsmash, it's likely best to not make such a gamble. Plus, if you just wait and see that he fsmashes, you can punish with your own fsmash purely on reaction.

-I already mentioned this a little, but look out for nair when he's above you. It can be tempting to carry on pseudo-combos on Bowser when you get him in the air since he's so fat, but all it takes for him to get out is one nair through one of your aerials, so look out for that. If you think he's going to nair, you can just try to shield it and then punish it as he lands with grab/nair/bair OoS. If an option, well-spaced fair is also a good response.

-Edgeguarding Bowser seems pretty straightforward. If you can get him far out, you can edgeguard him easily on reaction with a ton of things (fair, down-B, fsmash, etc). If not, he might try to mix up if he recovers high and low. Conveniently, it seems easy to react to this. If you're not able to get close to the edge quickly, you might be able to just ftilt him. If you can get to the edge, just stand right at it facing outwards and look at where he goes. If he goes low, sh fair. It's good to keep in mind that fair actually reaches about as low as dair does, so even if he goes for a sweetspot, you can still likely hit him with fair anyways, although he might be able to tech that. If it's clear that he's going for a sweetspot, you can also just dair at the edge to pop him up into a fair or down-B. If he's going too high for sh fair, you can try full hop fair; if you can't get there in time, you can just try to hit him as he lands with down-B/nair/fair/etc to either send him back offstage or start a combo on him.

That's the gist of what I noticed. As for the videos themselves, 1-12 were the first DDD vs Bowser matches of the day, whereas 13-16 were taken much later, so if you're interested in seeing how I played the MU with a little more experience under my belt, watch the later games. If you just want to watch DDD matches or are interested in seeing how I initially played against him, watch all of them.
 

KOkingpin

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
2,621
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
#3
I only have one video of my Dedede in tournament and it is vs Ike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UY97w8Ti37M#t=120s
KOKingpin (Dedede) Vs AND (Ike)

This was pre nerf Ike so the match up only gets better from this.

To be honest I played the first stock like crap. But you have to play the match up carefully even now cause Ike is still a beast. I love the Rocket Hammer. It just messes Ike's world up but it is one of the risk vs reward type moves. A lot of people like to play it safe and just f-tilt people.

Here are some more videos I just put up for Dedede

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thZ1yJWJyCE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoljDJxXONM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Jvl_XrvI0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJQYlghcHSA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKGkhw5exRw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkHnY7UfFO4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nrQYhWZ9N4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUpotZukPkQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8niWjHybbwI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmzEZDetCAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krovgsCGqow
 

Pimpfish

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
214
#4
yeah i think ftilit is pretty good for ikes upb, but i like rocket hammer if yuou get him to land on stage. ddd has a good matchup there imo
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
#6
Some rounds I got recorded a couple weeks ago just went up. I didn't play particularly well, but mostly for a few simple reasons. I mostly just need to be a little less dumb about some shield-grabs, be a little more cautious about spacing aerials on shields, be a little more cautious with some ftilts by the edge, and stop descending with stupid dairs that either miss or hit the front of the shield (hitting the back of the shield is fine; otherwise, this might be the rare instance in which I actually decide to use inhale in the future, although it's more likely that I'll just waveland backwards). My execution could also be afford to be better, but that's just a matter of not letting rust accumulate as often as I do. On the bright side, I was able to get some practice in match-ups that I have very little experience in. Anyways, the videos:

Fly vs. Okami/3Years- Some okay stuff, some not so okay stuff, and lots of even more mediocre stuff in between.

Fly vs. Ripn- Not all that much DDD stuff in here, but still a few games. People who want to watch some of my secondaries and tertiaries for whatever reason can look at the rest.
 

JTsm

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
3,233
#7
I appreciate the vids. Wish there was more D3 rep. Such a fun character to watch and play.
 

heysuess

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
59
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
#9
Hey guys. Here are some matches from an AZ tourney (PAZ) that was last week.

First match is against Calabrel. 2 out of 3, tourney match. I jumped ahead to when I used D3, he beat my Ivysaur pretty bad the first game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBVshQf6gsU&feature=player_detailpage#t=254s


Here is another match against Tai. He's a Melee player from AZ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOdPhrUL4Ms

Here is another tourney match against Taj.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQv6JmwkDEA

Great sets. Please feel free to leave any feedback. Positive or negative.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,628
#10
you need to play more in the air. DDD has a terrible approach game on the ground.

jump up and close some space, then come down with bair/inhale/grab/ fake out f-tilt
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,628
#13
I highly suggest you play human opponents. computers won't help you at all
 

SnatoWhato

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
69
#14
I highly suggest you play human opponents. computers won't help you at all
Hah hah, I know the CPU is limited. But alot of my old smash rivals are married and moved away. :( The only people that play with me now aren't very good.. I usually have to hold back to keep them playing, cuz if I actually try they would get bored.. or frustrated. But I do get to play with my good friends on occasions. When I do, I'll try to use Dedede and post the video.

But practicing against the computer is still plenty good in order to get used to a character you don't main. From what you saw what do you think I could do to improve on my Dedede game? Like I said before, I tend to goof around with him alot. But I'd like to add him to my mains because I have like, no heavy characters. :p
 

Nequ

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
34
Location
Essen
#16
I watched 2 Matches (1st on PS and 2nd on SV) and this is what i would like to point out.

On Stage, he just uses 6 moves: Grab, SideB, Smashes and Rolling. I saw one random f-tilt and that makes me sad. This is one awesome spacing tool with an insane range. JabJab to Grab is also kinda good (i guess). And where're the b-airs?
OffStage he waits for the F-Smash. No F-Air, no WaddleDee, nothing! Simply no gimps. But Dedede has good gimps, not only the F-Smash.

That's what i could point out. I play Dedede often against my friends, but they never play snake or tink. Maybe others could proof me wrong.
 

Gammawaves

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
2
Location
Burbank
#17
So after watching over these matches myself, i agree with nequ as far as ftilt and all the airs. the only issue i have is when i short jump i have alot of trouble Lcanceling when i hit the floor so if they shield the airiel then they can punish pretty hard. i usually fsmash against TL and snake as their recoveries are predictable but im trying to edgegaurd differently against recoveries like lucarios
 

9bit

BRoomer
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
2,690
Location
Illinois
#19
In your match vs Meta I love how the one dude said that Dedede's down-B was "retarded."

Not like Fox's upsmash or up-throw to up-air. No, those are legit guys. Because Melee.

Great stuff though. I'd like to see you go deeper off stage to edgeguard, but that may just be personal preference on my part.
 

9bit

BRoomer
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
2,690
Location
Illinois
#21
One important thing about Dedede's edgeguarding, in my opinion, is how fast he fast-falls. So, what you can do relatively often is full jump off the stage, so that covers if they recover high and maybe makes them try to avoid it, so then they recover mid or low. If they then go mid or low you can either fast fall into an aerial or just use down-air, which pops them up into a perfect position to forward-air. You fall so fast that you can usually get down to their level very quickly. If they are in front of you: Fair, if they are below you: Dair to Fair.

A couple of times when you were edge-hogging Fox and you repeatedly went for back-airs, you could have thrown in a forward-air to finish him off on the back-airs that didn't send him too far. One thing I've been practicing lately is that: quick turn-around forward-airs. That is, either falling from the ledge and turning to use Fair or doing a Bair into a turnaround Fair. I'm working on the timing because obviously if you attack too fast after jumping you won't turn around.

You basically want to force Fox and Falco to use their up-B's instead of side-B's because there is that period of time where they are stuck in place, and you should be up in their faces with a Fair at that point.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
#23
Socal started having PM tourneys recently, which is nice since it gives me an opportunity to actually play against people semi-regularly and work on some of my faults. Videos come with the tourneys, so here's some of what I've got recorded at the two I've been to so far:

From the first SSS PM tourney, hosted on October 27th:

WFs, vs Okami (Sheik/TL/Fox)
GFs, vs DSF (MK)

From the second one, hosted on November 10th (all of these are on a Twitch archive rather than YT):

vs Aggro (Squirtle)
vs Disqo (Snake/Diddy)
WQFs, vs. Heysuess (DDD)
WSFs, vs Okami (TL/Ike)
WFs, vs DSF (MK/Fox)
GFs, vs DEHF (Fox)
 

9bit

BRoomer
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
2,690
Location
Illinois
#24
Socal started having PM tourneys recently, which is nice since it gives me an opportunity to actually play against people semi-regularly and work on some of my faults. Videos come with the tourneys, so here's some of what I've got recorded at the two I've been to so far:

From the first SSS PM tourney, hosted on October 27th:

WFs, vs Okami (Sheik/TL/Fox)
GFs, vs DSF (MK)

I've only watched these first two so far but wow, that Fox edge guarding was on-point man. Great stuff.
 

9bit

BRoomer
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
2,690
Location
Illinois
#29
I really enjoyed your DDD play in this set.

Any criticism I can come up with would only involve tiny nitpicks of stuff you probably already noticed from watching it yourself, but I'll throw some out there anyway.

General Stuff:
  • Waddle use is really good, especially on FD where it's really necessary
  • I absolutely love your use of Swallow in this set, especially the wavebounce Swallows out of Waddle Dash recovery
  • Your edgeguarding could have been more... daring. It's tough against Ike I know, but I feel like you should have gone off stage more and tried to stuff him. Metroid is really good though, and he was throwing out great hitboxes with his sword to help him recover and prevent you from doing that... also Ike's up-B is redonk
  • I like that you didn't always ledge-jump to D-air, which is a really tempting and overused DDD strat
  • There were a few times you tried to N-air or F-air when an Up-air would have been better but hey in the heat of battle it's sometimes a crapshoot
Specific Stuff:
  • Your grab combination at 1:09 was beautiful. He was DI'ing for a backthrow and you did downthrow to regrab and then backthrow, I love it!
  • Game 1 certainly was yours to lose, as you had a decent lead, but it seemed to all fall apart around 3:48 for you. It seemed like Metroid got in your head at this point. You started playing a little scared
  • In game 2 I thought you could have kept this "combo" going with the B-airs longer at 6:03
  • I also liked the more frequent use of F-tilt as a kind of zoning tool in game 2 overall
  • Great combo at 8:21
I will write more later. Too drunk. Good **** though man
 

9bit

BRoomer
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
2,690
Location
Illinois
#31
Some great matches in there, but dear god most of the commentators are incredibly annoying and uninformed :/ with the exception of Oro and the 2 guys in the last match vs Wolf
 
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victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,285
Location
Edmonton
#32
I just got 3rd place at a local yesterday, i'll have some of my vids up soon for some critique! I would love some advice!
 

9bit

BRoomer
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
2,690
Location
Illinois
#35
I'm watching Big D's stuff right now and it's really good. Only critiques I have so far is an under-usage of Jab and Down-Smash. But your adaptability is fantastic. Once I finish with these I can't wait to watch your stuff, victra♥
 
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Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,628
#36
I just finished Big D's vids. I'm glad someone else plays like me, although he's more aggro in the neutral.

also Big D. you were becoming VERY repetitive at certain points. Otto was all over you
 

| Big D |

Brawl Backroom Member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
3,917
Location
Hinamizawa, BC
#38
no u

I'll break the game if I have to. Already found an infinite so can't be that hard.

Also why didn't you pose with me at the end of WF?

Def gotta figure something out to stop being repetitive. Advice for Wolf would be great. I keep hearing how bad his recovery is but I'm unsure of what to look for.

Also Victor inhale is godlike against all heavies, especially to land. They are slow and are most likely not going to dash away. I like how when you had space you threw waddles. Those are also godly vs heavies.
 
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9bit

BRoomer
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
2,690
Location
Illinois
#39
A couple of notes on this match (and matchup). When Sheik is recovering and barely going to make it, you don't have to keep falling off and re-grabbing the ledge. You don't need invincibility as the latter part of Sheik's up-B does not have a hitbox. Limeee got back to the ledge on Dreamland because you kept doing that. Just sit there on the ledge and let Sheik fall to her death.

And when Sheik can make it farther and has to land on stage, just do a regular getup. The one where you push the control stick towards the stage to quickly stand up, I don't know if it has a technical name. From there you can grab or jab to grab, down-B, inhale, really anything fast. Sheik has a lot of landing lag on up-B, abuse it.

Also you never seem to go for any Up-B "sweetspots." Are you worried you'll do it wrong and fall to your death or are you not aware of it? You can cancel your Up-B very close to the ledge to grab it quickly; you always seem to go very high with your Up-B's which leaves you vulnerable.
 
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Smur

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
156
Location
Statesboro, GA
3DS FC
4141-3292-3562
#40
Man those D3 vs Ike matches Ripple, I like your style it's so patient. I'll try to get some of my D3 vids up granted the host records matches at a tournament that's supposed to happen in 2 days :]
 
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