Social The Charizard Social: Merry Switchmas!

[Steeler]

It boils down to being super patient on stage and getting good reads on a Villager off stage. Zard actually has pretty good tools to edgeguard Villager with imo. When Villager is trying to get back from above or even with the stage level, fair is big/somewhat fast/quite strong, you have an extra jump to bait and position with, and you have armor. Not to mention a pretty good spike to threaten a low Villager recovery. I recommend staying slightly below and in front of Villager so his fair can't threaten you and you can respond to a Lloid or dair. Fair is fast enough to be unreactable so you put them in a position where they have to try and hit you or guess when you try to fair them. It's kind of how M2K recommends gimping Cloud and although Villager up b has huge distance, forcing him to use it should still be your goal (if you can't outright kill) because it's completely non-threatening and allows you to try and hit him with your big, strong moves. Neutral is not easy and the reason why Villager has an advantage but it's not terrible. Jab is incredible in this matchup if you can get in range of it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Silence my old friend.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I figured out how to get people's mods working on my Wii U.

I can finally die happy.

 

[Y2Kay]

Hi guys.

Mind signing me up for the Zard Gang?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

People are welcome in the zardgang just don't be a disgrace or a grimer.

 

[PEACE7]

At what frames is Charizards upB invincible?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

At what frames is Charizards upB invincible?

4 to 15 frames.

 

[Pixel_]

At what frames is Charizards upB invincible?

Not invincible, it's super armor; Charizard still takes damage during it. According to http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Charizard, it's frames 4-15.

 

[PEACE7]

Red Ryu got what i meant lol but thanks guys!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I figured out how to get people's mods working on my Wii U.

I can finally die happy.

What charizard mods have been made overall?

 

[ZephyrZ]

What charizard mods have been made overall?

The mod pack I'm using has MegaZardX, Salamence, Goodra, clone and Shiny colors, along with a Ridley model that doesn't really look right.

I've also seen Garchomp, Shadow Lugia, Dragonite, Aerodactyl and Rayquaza themed skins.

 

[C3CC]

Ridley would look amazing in Smash ;_;

 

[PEACE7]

What would be the optimal way to di zards upB?

 

[Ekans647]

Hi there! I'm an Ike main who mainly plays FG. Unfortunately, I can never beat Charizard. It doesn't matter the player I'm facing, if they switch to Charizard, I'll lose. Charizard is to me like Samus is to Leffen. What are Charizard's weaknesses and I how I can exploit them to win?

 

[Pixel_]

Hi there! I'm an Ike main who mainly plays FG. Unfortunately, I can never beat Charizard. It doesn't matter the player I'm facing, if they switch to Charizard, I'll lose. Charizard is to me like Samus is to Leffen. What are Charizard's weaknesses and I how I can exploit them to win?

- Bad endlag (all specials, smashes, maybe ftilt)
- Has trouble landing
- Combo escape options are limited to airdodge, jumps, and super armor, most of which are very punishable if predicted properly
- Gets combo'd really easily in general due to his size
- Bad approach options depending on the matchup
- Has trouble recovering diagonally w/out jumps (especially if the stage has no walls)
Charizard has a pretty bad disadvantage state, basically; you just have to watch out for his super armor moves (whose super armor comes out really early: frame 4 and 5 for fly/rock smash respectively). They have a ton of endlag though, so you should be able to punish it really hard if you see it coming. Watch out for Bair, too; if you learn the range it should be easier to dodge.

 

[Ekans647]

- Bad endlag (all specials, smashes, maybe ftilt)
- Has trouble landing
- Combo escape options are limited to airdodge, jumps, and super armor, most of which are very punishable if predicted properly
- Gets combo'd really easily in general due to his size
- Bad approach options depending on the matchup
- Has trouble recovering diagonally w/out jumps (especially if the stage has no walls)
Charizard has a pretty bad disadvantage state, basically; you just have to watch out for his super armor moves (whose super armor comes out really early: frame 4 and 5 for fly/rock smash respectively). They have a ton of endlag though, so you should be able to punish it really hard if you see it coming. Watch out for Bair, too; if you learn the range it should be easier to dodge.

With this information in mind, how should I play against Charizard? I prefer to play a defensive spacing game, but Charizard's massive hatboxes make it impossible for me to space him out.

 

[Pixel_]

With this information in mind, how should I play against Charizard? I prefer to play a defensive spacing game, but Charizard's massive hatboxes make it impossible for me to space him out.

Yeah idk about that :/
Someone else will need to answer that for me

 

[ZephyrZ]

With this information in mind, how should I play against Charizard? I prefer to play a defensive spacing game, but Charizard's massive hatboxes make it impossible for me to space him out.

Use that huge sword of Ikes to juggle. A lot of the time, Charizard will be forced to Rock Smash if you pressure his landing to much. If you read this, it can be punished, just so long as you watch out for the flying rocks at the end of the move. If the Zard loves to recover with Flare Blitz, you can try to edge guard with Counter.

Overall though, I'm not that great at discussing matchups, so that's all the help I think I can give.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

- Bad endlag (all specials, smashes, maybe ftilt)
- Has trouble landing
- Combo escape options are limited to airdodge, jumps, and super armor, most of which are very punishable if predicted properly
- Gets combo'd really easily in general due to his size
- Bad approach options depending on the matchup
- Has trouble recovering diagonally w/out jumps (especially if the stage has no walls)
Charizard has a pretty bad disadvantage state, basically; you just have to watch out for his super armor moves (whose super armor comes out really early: frame 4 and 5 for fly/rock smash respectively). They have a ton of endlag though, so you should be able to punish it really hard if you see it coming. Watch out for Bair, too; if you learn the range it should be easier to dodge.

Ehhh Some of this works but honestly bad endlag can be mitigated if you know what you are doing.

Thinking of it from the ike perspective, really I would focus on catching his landings and if your playing on for glory, exploit Zard's landings as much as you can. FD is borderline if not his worst stage in almost every MU.

Space the sword well, Zard can't outrange it outside of Bair or Flamethrower. Be smart when you recover so you do not get caught off stage against Zard.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

prefer to play a defensive spacing game,

Don't do that against Zard.

For Ike, you're gonna wanna go on the offensive.

Not rush down, but offensive spacing.

 

[Ekans647]

Ho to I punish Rock Smash? I'm able to read it, but I when I act on it, I either get hit anyway, or am forced to let Charizard land. I also main Greninja.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Ho to I punish Rock Smash? I'm able to read it, but I when I act on it, I either get hit anyway, or am forced to let Charizard land. I also main Greninja.

You can try to shield it, but make sure you don't let go of shield to early. Also be wary, since you'll take a lot of shield damage. You can also wait until it's safe before you run in. Just be cautious about the flying pebbles. Alternatively, if you can get to Zard's backside, you can grab him from behind during the move or even prepare a smash attack.

It's a scary move, but it has a lot of endlag.

 

[Ekans647]

Okay, such just respect it Rock Smash and you'll be fine.

 

[ZephyrZ]

We need more activity in this thread. We're all Pokymanz fans here, right? Why not talk about Sun/Moon? I'll copy/paste my thoughts on the Coro-coro leak here.

....

Team Skull confirmed for Pokemon Sun and Moon. Chaw-haw-haw!
Please tell me one of you guys gets the reference.


Also Marowak's new form is cool. I figured from Gamexplain's speculation that it'd be a fire type, but now I feel silly for not realizing it'd also be part ghost type. I mean, I always figured a Mega Marowak would be Ground/Ghost, after all.

The new fish and sandcastle are, uh, interesting, but I'm not going to go all genwunner over them. I'm not a fan, but I can appreciate the concept behind them.

I don't care much for the new Meowth form, but I expect the anime I haven't watched in ages will do something fun with it.

 

[arbustopachon]

Wait, new mons already? Man they are revealing these things fast.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ho to I punish Rock Smash? I'm able to read it, but I when I act on it, I either get hit anyway, or am forced to let Charizard land. I also main Greninja.

Just shield it with a full shield. If your shield is slightly depleted you will get shield poked.

I think Fsmash can punish it afterwards, if not just grab him and make magic happen after the throw.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I've started using the tag "Zardlord" online. I was going for a play on the term "Dragonlord", but with Charizard's good old nickname "Zard".

Though it probably looks silly. I imagine most people wouldn't realize that it's a reference to Dragonlords. But you know what? We Zard mains are already known to be hopelessly obsessed with Zard, so we may as well embrace that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm unoriginal and use something that is related to an IntroSpecktive video.

 

[NotAsian]

Hey guys just curious can i jab lock zard after he flair blitz my shield when he hits the ground? I play game and watch and late fair hit can lock but im not sure if it coukd be fast enough thanks!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey guys just curious can i jab lock zard after he flair blitz my shield when he hits the ground? I play game and watch and late fair hit can lock but im not sure if it coukd be fast enough thanks!

You can jab lock him when he hits the ground but you need to figure out what G&W has that can jab lock since I do not know that.

 

[arbustopachon]

yes, you can jab lock him.

 

[arbustopachon]

So new tier list boys! We dropped one place on the mii-less list but kept our position on the mii included list.
So, what do you think?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I put him higher than where he ended up but it's fine.

He had to prove himself in results to get higher.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm not bothered by tier placements one bit. This game is balanced well enough where even the worst of the worst has a fighting chance. I mean, sure, they won't be winning any nationals, but I won't be winning any nationals either so there's that.

I do think Zard is a tad bit underrated as well, however.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Surprised we went a month with much here. ;_;

 

[Nathan Richardson]

I main zard myself, how do you play a good zard (sorry about the grammar I didn't know how to structure that sentence). I have a really hard time punishing people after I use my shield unless it's a dash attack and I often get walled by turtlers. Is there a way around it?

 

[Pixel_]

I main zard myself, how do you play a good zard (sorry about the grammar I didn't know how to structure that sentence). I have a really hard time punishing people after I use my shield unless it's a dash attack and I often get walled by turtlers. Is there a way around it?

Not everything is punishable by shield, so sometimes you have to just drop your shield without doing anything. I'd say Charizard's main OoS options are jab, grab, and jump-cancel Fly, though that last one is pretty risky.
"Turtle" is a bit vague imo, so I'll split it into projectile spammers and generally defensive players.
For projectile-spammers, you have to dash into shield to get in. Perfect shields are obviously better if you can do them, and once you're close enough to the opponent, projectiles will be too laggy to throw out. By then they'll either use a punishable projectile or switch playstyles, and you'll have to react to either one. Charizard might be able to Flare Blitz through weaker projectiles and Rock Smash through others, but they're pretty risky so you'll have to stick with fundamentals. MySmashCorner has a good video on this: https://youtu.be/XGiWeq_t9V0
As for overly defensive characters, you have to bait them into punishing you, then punish the punish. Well, at least I think that's how it is hypothetically, but generally just try to use safe moves so they can't find openings. Meanwhile, you have to find openings yourself, in some way or another. There was a good post I saw earlier about this, but I can't find it...

 

[Nathan Richardson]

When I say 'turtling' I mean people who spam their shields constantly. Turtling typically means to constantly block without using offensive input so using attacks doesn't count as 'turtling' to me. Thanks for the info though, I have a hard time dash shielding or perfect shielding due to lag in online mode.

 

[PoptartLord]

So here's a thing that's been happening to me, and I'm wondering if it happens to you guys too.

First, I'll be playing on For Glory as a different character. After a few wins (~6) I'll swap to Charizard to get some practice in, and after one win the opponent will suddenly leave. Like.... 9 out of 10 times, if not more. We'll both have a good connection speed, and half of the time they'll have swapped characters at least once already; I just don't get it. This doesn't happen to Robin or Link, just to Charizard.

Does this happen to anyone else? This has been going on for months, making it well out of fluke territory. All I want to do is breathe fire on people, is that too much to ask?

-PoptartLord

 

[ZephyrZ]

I've actually had that happen a few times myself. Usually I'm playing Mewtwo, but then I swap to Charizard and they either leave or try to use some character they clearly don't know how to play.

I assume they think I'm trying to disrespect them, which is usually the furthest thing from the truth.