The Castle Siege Stage Discussion

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright guys, i know nothing about using pit on this stage. i only know like one pro and one con so im counting on you guys to lay out all the info and CP knowledge you got on this one okay?

CS Pros:
-we can hard core circle camp the statues

here's some info from kuro

Part 1 advantages- If your on the right side the slant facing / then angel ring gets both a boost in speed and potential hits. Two for being on the right side, aiming at head is now easier and if they approach they will get shield ***** by nair easier due to them approaching from a lower ground. If they approach from the air you have plenty of time to react or move away. If your on the left side of the first stage you can FF fair and you will slide away and it is 100% safe!!!! Unless PS but i havent tested it yet. You wont slide at every point on it but most of em will so learn where you will slide away. You can basically make a **** *** wall on the left side. The upwards tilt helps dtilt ALOT and EVERYTIME YOU DO A SH BAIR ITS CRIT IF IT HITS CUZ THE ANGLE YOUR ALREADY FACING THEM. Between arrows and those few nice notes+planking the first stage is very nice for some matchups. (Snake, Olimar,mk are the biggest exclusions. Wario as well possibly.) Second part, dude just run away. NO ONE CAN CATCH US HERE. IT'S LIKE NEW PORK CITY just a bit worse. Between wing refreshing, dair camping, and gliding we can circle camp ALL DAY!!! Don't even fight here. Just run. The whole time your at the second transformation. Run. Also, (EVEN THOUGH YOU SHOULDNT) if you do we can refresh our moves on the statues. I believe WoI windbox refreshes our moves here like at YI. Not sure on that part though. Stage part 3- I love this one. If we stay on the left side we are soooo good. I mean either one is fine but the left is amazing. The slants still make you slide so go to whatever side is tilting downwards so you slide away after you bair/fair them. It's LEGIT safe shield pressure. Also, these tiny slants give the boost to ar, and dtilt, and also nearly every shot here will be an automatic foot shot on most characters! So you can really abuse pit's moveset on this part. And be safe about it! I dare a d3 to take me here :3

Now im off for my exercise routine...

CS Cons:
-we can't go under most or maybe even any of the stage

People use this stage against us a lot as most people know it is a CP against pit. below i have some info from chompy about character's who are know for using this stage. please discuss tactics and who else you think may CP us to this stage what tactics we should use to avoid losing.

Characters who will CP you here

-Snake (Snake can outcamp you with grenades all day. Sets a detonator, so you won't have a clue where the bomb is until he sets it off, and Snake can KO you at 100% on a platform with a Utilt. Snakes Ftilt can also KO Pit at 100% on the first part of the stage, since the width of the stage is narrow.)

-Wario (Outcamps you and has the aerial mobility to move anywhere in the stage)

-Marth (Marth does not mind the platforms at all)

-King DeDeDe (Can chain (possibly) grab you on the second part of the stage)

-Lucario (Charges up the Auras Sphere all day and uses it against you)

-Game@Watch (The fact that he's got good aerial mobility means he can move anywhere on the stage as he pleases. A Usmash can kill Pit at 70% on a platform on the 1st part.)

-Sonic (Hit and run. What can I say?)

-olimar (we can't plank him anyways and his moveset destroys us here)



So basically this is a stage we should try to avoid. While we can hold our own against characters here via timeout, in the end we have no real advantages on this stage save what kuro mentioned. in the end though we always have a better place to CP people to so never waste your cp by going here and most likely you should ban it in tourney.

IMPORTANT INFO ABOUT THE STAGE FROM THE MARTH BOARDS (thx to jimmyfosho for finding it)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283657

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I personally don't like castle siege because the statues can **** with arrow camping. Though the statues can also be used to refresh your moves so eh.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Crap stage, shouldn't even be considered a neutral. Move along.

 

[pitskeyblade]

What are the timings for the stage changes? Let's rack up some data we can use.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

you're on each stage for 40 seconds and you're in the "transitioning" part of the map for 2-8 seconds depending on your wii

source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283657

edit: get ninja'd


V

 

[Zulo]

Lots of info here. EDIT: Jimmy beat me to it lol.

I would think the best transformation for us would be the last one.. We can kinda circle camp on the second stage but we won't be doing much damage unless the opponent goes aggro, because the statues block our arrows.

 

[CHOMPY]

Which characters to take

-Diddy (Limits his banana game. Watch out for the 3rd part (lava), since the stage layout is similar to Final Destination.)

-Falco (can't camp effectivly with the statues in the way.)

-Pikachu (His lack of range forces Pika to approach and he can't move around as much with the amount of space that Pika has to deal with on the 1st part. You can outcamp Pika on the 2nd part of the stage)

-Olimar (You can gimp him easily on the first part of the stage if you manage to get him off the stage. Also, you can outcamp Olimar easily on the 2nd part of the stage.

-Kirby (His lack of range means you can outcamp him with Dair and shoot out the bow and arrows all day. Watch out for his Fsmash, since it can kill at 90% with no DI, since the widths of the stage is kinda narrow, depending on where you get hit.)

-Ice Climbers (Platforms are IC's worst enemy, since they are generally forced to jump, just so they can chase after Pit. Being that the 2nd part of the stage gives you plenty of room to run away, there is no way the IC's can CG you. Be aware of the 3rd part of the stage, since there are no platforms and just hang out at the ledge until the stages switch.)


Characters you should not take

-Metaknight (Platforms get in the way and Metaknight can outcamp you all day)

-Snake (Snake can outcamp you with grenades all day. Sets a detonator, so you won't have a clue where the bomb is until he sets it off, and Snake can KO you at 100% on a platform with a Utilt. Snakes Ftilt can also KO Pit at 100% on the first part of the stage, since the width of the stage is narrow.)

-Wario (Outcamps you and has the aerial mobility to move anywhere in the stage)

-Marth (Marth does not mind the platforms at all)

-King DeDeDe (Can chain (possibly) grab you on the second part of the stage)

-Lucario (Charges up the Auras Sphere all day and uses it against you)

-Game@Watch (The fact that he's got good aerial mobility means he can move anywhere on the stage as he pleases. A Usmash can kill Pit at 70% on a platform on the 1st part.)

-Sonic (Hit and run. What can I say?)


Hope this helps, Maharba

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

luckay it doesn't matter whether or not it's neutral. we need to know about it incase we are CP'd to that stage by some1 or if we feel confident CPing some1 to it (like CHOMPY mentioned ICs which i agree with a lot)

more input!
thx u for your input chompy

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

We shouldn't be taking anyone here >___>

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

that's what im saying, people know that and CP it all the time against pit (or at least it happens to me a lot). im not saying we should CP ICs here, tbh idk why i even put that in my post. i really just want to get info about this stage because:
a)that's what people seemed to want to talk about
b)because we need to know how to handle the stage when are CP'd here by somebody

sooooo pleeeaaaase more info? pleeeeaaaaase?

 

[Nitrix]

Taking Falco here might not be the best decision, considering that if he cg`d to d-air at the beginning animation Pit would be a really tricky spot since he can't go under the stage.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

douible posst

 

[Zulo]

Marths will CP us here.. They control the stage well on the first transformation with the platforms, so be careful here. The moving edges on the last stage can mess them up sometimes and make them easier to gimp I guess. On the second transformation, they can shark the platforms with utilt and stuff, and the statues draw out their tippered attacks so watch out. It wouldn't hurt to break the large statue to stop their sharking and make more room for our arrows if you have time.

 

[pitskeyblade]

I couldn't CP Falco here because of the walk off CG possibility in the statue room.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Never ever ever ever go here against King Dedede. Sure you can camp out the second transformation... but it's just too risky.

 

[fUddO]

I hate this stage with a passion, but I think it's more of a personal thing. Against D3, I wouldn't go here, but I'd rather ban Delfino, since you only need to camp out 1 transformation instead of pretty much all of them. Other than that, losing the ability to fly under the stage sucks.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i hate this stage for Pit. first part is too narrow to effectively camp and those ledges are just unusual in general, and cant fly under. second part arrow game is verrrry limited, third part is all right i guess, but the tilting stage messes up your arrow aiming at times.

personally if someone took me here i'd go snake lol

honestly i think the best CS strat for pit would be to try to time them out lol

 

[Kuro~]

I'll post in this wednesday. I got some stuff i'd like to say that no one has really realized yet...

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well make sure you start a new MU discussion too. we are getting side tracked from that recently

 

[dualseeker]

Castle Siege isn't the best stage for Pit, since much of the stage has an awkward layout for Pit, and some parts mess up his Arrow game. The first transformation isn't terrible, but the various slants and awkward ledges make it tough to control things here. Although, the platforms od help somewhat with juggling, although not as much as other platforms do.

The second transformation absolutely wrecks his Arrow game. But, it gives PLENTY of room for Pit to run around in and run away from his opponent and wait for an opportunity to cause some damage in Close Quarter Combat. And although his long range Arrow game is wrecked here, there are still chances to use Arrows when you're in close. Just make sure you aren't risking to much when you do, though.

The third transformation is like a tilting FD that you can't fly under. I wouldn't suggest trying to recover low too much, as the circular bottom of the stage makes it awkward to recover and could lead to a gimp. In my opinion, I think we should try to stay on the platform and try not to get knocked off, as it is a bit hard recovering here.

I don't think we should take any character here who can CG us for a very long time, can gimp well, or is a good ledge guarder, or anyone who insists on chasing after us too much.

 

[Kuro~]

well make sure you start a new MU discussion too. we are getting side tracked from that recently

Ok, but don't expect zss at the same time. Exams be keeping me 2 busy. That and i had a bad case of senioritis for a month or so and now i have a **** ton of makeup

I just need to think of a catchy title first....

 

[Xcallion]

The Blue Flash
The Master of Aura
The King of Evil
The Very Slow Turtle Who Was Able to Beat a Very Fast Rabbit In a Race Because He Never Slowed Down
The Hardened Veteran
The Snowbound Lovers
The Hero of Time
The 2D Trickster

Any of these doing it for ya?

 

[Kuro~]

The Blue Flash
The Master of Aura
The King of Evil
The Very Slow Turtle Who Was Able to Beat a Very Fast Rabbit In a Race Because He Never Slowed Down
The Hardened Veteran
The Snowbound Lovers
The Hero of Time
The 2D Trickster

Any of these doing it for ya?

Haha a few of em are nice. I liked the turtle and hare referance that one stood out. But i like to come up with them on my own. Keeps me entertained in making the threads haha

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

kuro i need you to tell us your "castle siege secrets" because if not im gonna summarize this one up in the OP with only these negative aspects pretty much because that is all im getting.

 

[Kuro~]

kuro i need you to tell us your "castle siege secrets" because if not im gonna summarize this one up in the OP with only these negative aspects pretty much because that is all im getting.

Oh ok, i'll do it when i get home today. I'll just say right now no matter what there are better Cps but its goood2know just in case

 

[fUddO]

This is a pretty good Olimar stage, since he can't get gimped on the 2nd transformation, and the ceiling is really low on the first transformation. I wouldn't take him here. In fact, I'd probably ban it against him.

 

[Kuro~]

Ya this is a good ban against olimar.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

be that as it may, we still have yet to hear your stage info. i wanna start the RC discussion so post this stuff soon or im just gonna start the other discussion.

 

[Kuro~]

Part 1 advantages- If your on the right side the slant facing / then angel ring gets both a boost in speed and potential hits. Two for being on the right side, aiming at head is now easier and if they approach they will get shield ***** by nair easier due to them approaching from a lower ground. If they approach from the air you have plenty of time to react or move away. If your on the left side of the first stage you can FF fair and you will slide away and it is 100% safe!!!! Unless PS but i havent tested it yet. You wont slide at every point on it but most of em will so learn where you will slide away. You can basically make a **** *** wall on the left side. The upwards tilt helps dtilt ALOT and EVERYTIME YOU DO A SH BAIR ITS CRIT IF IT HITS CUZ THE ANGLE YOUR ALREADY FACING THEM. Between arrows and those few nice notes+planking the first stage is very nice for some matchups. (Snake, Olimar,mk are the biggest exclusions. Wario as well possibly.) Second part, dude just run away. NO ONE CAN CATCH US HERE. IT'S LIKE NEW PORK CITY just a bit worse. Between wing refreshing, dair camping, and gliding we can circle camp ALL DAY!!! Don't even fight here. Just run. The whole time your at the second transformation. Run. Also, (EVEN THOUGH YOU SHOULDNT) if you do we can refresh our moves on the statues. I believe WoI windbox refreshes our moves here like at YI. Not sure on that part though. Stage part 3- I love this one. If we stay on the left side we are soooo good. I mean either one is fine but the left is amazing. The slants still make you slide so go to whatever side is tilting downwards so you slide away after you bair/fair them. It's LEGIT safe shield pressure. Also, these tiny slants give the boost to ar, and dtilt, and also nearly every shot here will be an automatic foot shot on most characters! So you can really abuse pit's moveset on this part. And be safe about it! I dare a d3 to take me here :3

Now im off for my exercise routine...

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

^^^^^
Nice little summary. I'm not that good @ making conscious decisions using the stage yet, but you can up-b platform cancel on the 2nd Transformation. Not sure about the 1st one at the top of my head. It allows for platform drop bairs/fairs.

 

[Abel1994]

Kuro is now called Red Ryu

 

[Kuro~]

Kuro is now called Red Ryu

Why?

/10chars

 

[Abel1994]

Teh red text.