Meta The "Bowser Matchups" Thread

[gmBottles]

I beat a Ganondorf in tournament yesterday and want to know what you guys think of the MU.
I think it's pretty tough to say the least. Personally, I found that, as opposed to my preference in most MUs, I actually did better on bigger stages. This is the only MU where I have ever actually wanted to take them to Dreamland (where I won game 3 ). I think the best thing to do is grab. Grabs prevent Ganon from punching you in the mouth so that's good. Dthrow tech chases are efficient and not too hard to pull off. I found myself using them a looot. Also just throwing Ganon offstage and slapping him with fair a few times was a very effective way to close out a stock.

This was also my first time winning in tournament with Bowser so far and tbh I am very proud

 

[Kalimari]

Here's a cool game 1 where DJ goes bowser against Moon's marth gives me hope for this matchup x)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LlpUPdcgDw8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Synnett]

Peach is cancer. Also is Marth, or any character with disjointed hitboxes (aka swerds)

Whirling fortress can cancel Jigglypuff's rest somehow, lots of fun. but it's hard to land a hit.

 

[Synnett]

Okay, so I found a small something with Capt. Falcon and Marth: If, when you climb back on stage with your attack below 100%, they get knocked out of the stage, they then use their up B to come back on the stage. As soon as the lag from the climb stops, use Fsmash toward the ledge, and it's a sure hit. It might work for Ganon too

 

[gmBottles]

Okay, so I found a small something with Capt. Falcon and Marth: If, when you climb back on stage with your attack below 100%, they get knocked out of the stage, they then use their up B to come back on the stage. As soon as the lag from the climb stops, use Fsmash toward the ledge, and it's a sure hit. It might work for Ganon too

This most likely won't work if they sweetspot the ledge. It'd work as a read though for a recovery if they don't sweetspot.

 

[Synnett]

Dude, Bowser = read. And in order to sweetspot the ledge, CPT. Falcon have to instantly use his up b. Or he ded.

 

[Synnett]

Hey guys, here's a little something for the Peach matchup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZizzUWHyvI

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Good stuff, Eikelmann!

 

[Kalimari]

New vid of dj usin bowser, this time against puff. what do you all think of dreamland in this matchup? I rather like it interestingly, the survivability of bowser is t o p s

https://youtu.be/iV3T-azEp3Q?t=3m23s

 

[Synnett]

New vid of dj usin bowser, this time against puff. what do you all think of dreamland in this matchup? I rather like it interestingly, the survivability of bowser is t o p s

https://youtu.be/iV3T-azEp3Q?t=3m23s

Everyone think they can do some easy rests on my Bowser, so they pick Jigglypuff. I got to know this matchup very well, and that's probably Bowser's best match up ironically. Jigglypuff have a hard time approching Bowser, and even when he does, we up b out of shield, making it one of the harder characters to land a rest on.

I actually really really hate Dream Land because of the wind - it kills me so often! I usually pick Fountain of Dream. Bowser's movement here is insanely good, and Jigglypuff have a hard time approaching because of the platforms, while I can just clip through them with most of my moves. But yea, I understand how Dream Land can be good, but I can't stand it xD

 

[gmBottles]

New vid of dj usin bowser, this time against puff. what do you all think of dreamland in this matchup? I rather like it interestingly, the survivability of bowser is t o p s

https://youtu.be/iV3T-azEp3Q?t=3m23s

That 4 stock was hot, but that commentary was not

Good god, that girl had no idea what she was doing. And I'm not being sexist either, she had no place being a commentator.

Anyways, I think DL is pretty good for this MU, though I also like Yoshi's. I haven't played it enough to have a real say though.

 

[A Stuffy Muffin]

Always great to see DJ's Boozer.

I'm kind of wary of DL but I'm always wary of DL. Yoshi's is kind of a double edged sword in that MU, we've got all our gimmicks and one read will secures a stock but we get gimped real easy there. Maybe I'm just salty because I got 4 stocked by a jiggs on Yoshi's once. I feel better about FoD, a little more room to work with but also comfortable blast zones.

That 4 stock was hot, but that commentary was not

Good god, that girl had no idea what she was doing. And I'm not being sexist either, she had no place being a commentator.

Anyways, I think DL is pretty good for this MU, though I also like Yoshi's. I haven't played it enough to have a real say though.

 

[Kalimari]

everyone thinks yoshi's is this stage that automatically gives bowser this huge advantage. i mean sure somethings become easier like movement and kill potential but you're right, it's a double edged sword. I lost track of how many times i went yoshi's and got locked down, HARD. against falco you're smothered and you get combod to shxt. against fox not only is your movement buff not important (fox can run circles around you and bait you hard) but you die to upsmash and up air at embarassingly low percents. and with puff it kind of goes back to falco where you get locked down hard with no room to do your business.
well she dies to up B and uptilt at about 50% LOL so that's good tho.

but i mean yeah battlefield is pretty much the go to stage imo. dreamland is coo, so is fountain. just avoid fd and stadium x (
sheik and peach are two matchups where i think yoshi's is the best pick though, anyone else agree?

 

[gmBottles]

Yeah I feel exactly the same about Yoshi's, I just happen to like the stage a lot lol

Battlefield has always been my favorite stage for Bowser.

 

[Kalimari]

(i actually love the bowser vs peach matchup btw)

 

[gmBottles]

(i actually love the bowser vs peach matchup btw)

I actually played that MU once in tourney back when I was a Puff main because the Puff Peach MU is so ****ing lame. I actually did better as Bowser (still lost though but that's because I was booty)

I don't even know what I did right but the MU didn't see too bad. Still pretty bad, but not the worst.

 

[Synnett]

I actually played that MU once in tourney back when I was a Puff main because the Puff Peach MU is so ****ing lame. I actually did better as Bowser (still lost though but that's because I was booty)

I don't even know what I did right but the MU didn't see too bad. Still pretty bad, but not the worst.

I think it's in their playstyle. Sometime Peach users like to float in the air over the main platform and approach with turnips and downair. In that case, Peach is a wall that pushes you out of the stage. If this happens to you, you have to use your air upB through her. Or they spam turnips, which is hard too, or they use Armada's playstyle (platform movement, etc.), which isn't bad.

But yep, not as bad as Sheik. We gotta find a way to rekt Sheiks...

 

[Synnett]

Alright, small update for the Link match up! I'm actually pretty good against it, but I've never been able to explain how to face it.

mah vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucKxg29h9Eo

Don't even bother edge-guarding in that one, unless he's coming from low, diagonally (with flames). He can just rise through the stage with his upb and there is no counter for his hookshot recovery. What you want to do is to keep middle stage, and try to keep Link above you. Whenever you have a chance to grab and throw him near the ledge. Being pressured this way, he won't be able to throw projectiles as much, making it easier to approach. Pressure with shield, but try not to get grabbed (a short hop or R+down is enough to avoid his clawshot, then punish the lag). Keep your distances from the ledge when he recovers, just enough to land a f-tilt if he come back on stage. Oh, and pick small stages, they are better. Abuse of your shield!

That's quite the basics. That said, good luck lol.

 

[Dralro]

I beat a Ganondorf in tournament yesterday and want to know what you guys think of the MU.
I think it's pretty tough to say the least. Personally, I found that, as opposed to my preference in most MUs, I actually did better on bigger stages. This is the only MU where I have ever actually wanted to take them to Dreamland (where I won game 3 ). I think the best thing to do is grab. Grabs prevent Ganon from punching you in the mouth so that's good. Dthrow tech chases are efficient and not too hard to pull off. I found myself using them a looot. Also just throwing Ganon offstage and slapping him with fair a few times was a very effective way to close out a stock.

This was also my first time winning in tournament with Bowser so far and tbh I am very proud

I used to be a Ganon main myself, and the matchup actually isn't awful for bowser, it's more about exploiting Ganon's ridiculous end lag on attacks,he is really easy to edge guard with F-tilt, Downsmash, Down-tilt, or even Fire, depending on his height, I've found Koopa Klaw works wonders here as you can do forward throw into another Klaw grab really easily, as long as you make sure to move around often, and try to punish vertically with neutral air or fire on platforms (which really throws ganon off) you should be fine.

 

[Dralro]

So, any advice on the Zelda or Jigglypuff matchups?

 

[gmBottles]

So, any advice on the Zelda or Jigglypuff matchups?

Both of them destroy Bowser. I don't know much about Zelda other than stay out of the fair/bair sweetspot range as best as possible.

As for Jigglypuff, from what I've experienced, the best course of action is to grab when you can, and do your best to set up a good spot to camp with spaced fairs and defensive upB (usually from a platform as a means of escape). I think the best bet of finding a good followup is to do more horizontal combos rather than comboing Puff upwards. I think the most important thing to remember in the MU is that jab utilt is real, and it kills early. Wavedash jab (whether offensive-in or defensive-away) is a great setup for this, and since jab comes out fairly quick it's usually a really good option. You can mix this up with ftilt as well, or just raw utilt if you catch them off guard.

I'd be able to say more if I had played the MU more, I usually go Fox because Puff just steps all over Bowser.

 

[Dralro]

Both of them destroy Bowser. I don't know much about Zelda other than stay out of the fair/bair sweetspot range as best as possible.

As for Jigglypuff, from what I've experienced, the best course of action is to grab when you can, and do your best to set up a good spot to camp with spaced fairs and defensive upB (usually from a platform as a means of escape). I think the best bet of finding a good followup is to do more horizontal combos rather than comboing Puff upwards. I think the most important thing to remember in the MU is that jab utilt is real, and it kills early. Wavedash jab (whether offensive-in or defensive-away) is a great setup for this, and since jab comes out fairly quick it's usually a really good option. You can mix this up with ftilt as well, or just raw utilt if you catch them off guard.

I'd be able to say more if I had played the MU more, I usually go Fox because Puff just steps all over Bowser.

You're right, I really need to improve my spacing, but the jab uptilt combo seems to work, which throws should I use out of grab? What about the command grab? What stages are best for the matchup?

 

[Synnett]

So, any advice on the Zelda or Jigglypuff matchups?

Jigglypuff is really harsh and tedious.

- After three bair, Jigglypuff needs to land.. well if he knows what he's doing lmao. Run toward her when she land and dash attack / grab.
- Downthrow deals 0% dmg, abuse of it.
- Ftilt trades with her bair lmao. Not reliable tho, as it's super slow.
- For some reasons, Bowser is super hard to rest. Probably because you are always on your defensive, and the setups does not work... punish with fully charged F smash or downthrow.

What you want to do most of the time is get above her and shffl super fast. This way she can't hit with her bair and she has to jump more. Space your fairs like you're confident you'll hit and wait until she has to land. Bowser's "perfect" wavedash/land goes super far super fast. If you're on the ground do that and either grab or jab uptilt or whatever to get some damage off. When she is in the air, she will try to land by drifting off the stage then back to grab the ledge. Jump off stage or from a platform and pressure with your uair. After a while, even if you don't it, she will drift farther back, where you can fair instead.

Another thing you can do is bait that rest. She will most likely won't hit you if you DI properly, then you can punish with da fsmash. (or she rests on shield lmao)

For Zelda, she doesn't have a good option to hit you on the platforms, as none of her up attacks reaches the platforms, except for her uair which sux. When she tries to bair/fair, upB. Also, on Fountain, the platforms go lower. It's not an issue as your upB reaches far enough below the platform to hit her. Don't try to space fairs, it won't work. She's also easy to uair combo as she's so slow. Your upB also beats her dsmash OoS, you win here too. So in short avoid spacing.

 

[Dralro]

Jigglypuff is really harsh and tedious.

- After three bair, Jigglypuff needs to land.. well if he knows what he's doing lmao. Run toward her when she land and dash attack / grab.
- Downthrow deals 0% dmg, abuse of it.
- Ftilt trades with her bair lmao. Not reliable tho, as it's super slow.
- For some reasons, Bowser is super hard to rest. Probably because you are always on your defensive, and the setups does not work... punish with fully charged F smash or downthrow.

What you want to do most of the time is get above her and shffl super fast. This way she can't hit with her bair and she has to jump more. Space your fairs like you're confident you'll hit and wait until she has to land. Bowser's "perfect" wavedash/land goes super far super fast. If you're on the ground do that and either grab or jab uptilt or whatever to get some damage off. When she is in the air, she will try to land by drifting off the stage then back to grab the ledge. Jump off stage or from a platform and pressure with your uair. After a while, even if you don't it, she will drift farther back, where you can fair instead.

Another thing you can do is bait that rest. She will most likely won't hit you if you DI properly, then you can punish with da fsmash. (or she rests on shield lmao)

For Zelda, she doesn't have a good option to hit you on the platforms, as none of her up attacks reaches the platforms, except for her uair which sux. When she tries to bair/fair, upB. Also, on Fountain, the platforms go lower. It's not an issue as your upB reaches far enough below the platform to hit her. Don't try to space fairs, it won't work. She's also easy to uair combo as she's so slow. Your upB also beats her dsmash OoS, you win here too. So in short avoid spacing.

Thanks Synnett, really appreciate the feedback, My brother (My main training partner for years) plays Zelda and Puff, this really helps for the matchups, once I can get a good enough setup to record I will show off my bowser.

 

[Synnett]

Thanks Synnett, really appreciate the feedback, My brother (My main training partner for years) plays Zelda and Puff, this really helps for the matchups, once I can get a good enough setup to record I will show off my bowser.

My pleasure

Btw, for the dash attack, only use it when Puff is above the ground, lets say you are late on your punish or missed your wavedash. It sends upward where you can try to get a uair or anything. If you do it on shield it's a free rest.

Can't wait to see your vids, and I'm glad we have a new Bowser main :D

 

[gmBottles]

- Downthrow deals 0% dmg, abuse of it.

Why would you ever use dthrow in this MU, not only does it do no damage, there are no followups if they DI even remotely correctly

- For some reasons, Bowser is super hard to rest. Probably because you are always on your defensive, and the setups does not work... punish with fully charged F smash or downthrow.

Bowser is easy as **** to get a rest on lmao. He's gigantic. If the Puff is good at playing Jigglypuff, they will land rest.

 

[gmBottles]

Really I think the best thing you can do in these MUs is abuse your movement, which is going to take a lot of practice. It's taken me about a year to get to where I am (consistent wavedash and wavelands with Bowser, as well as the options out of them). If you can move efficiently, you will be able to bait out moves more effectively. Otherwise, Bowser is sort of a sitting duck.

 

[Synnett]

Why would you ever use dthrow in this MU, not only does it do no damage, there are no followups if they DI even remotely correctly

Bowser is easy as **** to get a rest on lmao. He's gigantic. If the Puff is good at playing Jigglypuff, they will land rest.

But bruh it's dank and MentalDmg™

If you play correctly you won't get rested. In short don't let her get under you, which is easy, and if it happens you can just double jump out of the upthrow, where the throw sends you higher than for other characters and you get smaller when you double jump. If you get dair to rest you can just upB. Thrown on a platform, roll/get up upB. Or you can just shield when they get hasty and punish like super hard. In instance where other people would try to shield grab just stay in shield.

But yea, your movement is important. You need to be able to get under her with a good wave-something to hit.

 

[Dralro]

Everyone has been amazing, and I can beat a lot of people in my community, but Captain Falcons always give me trouble, what about that matchup?

 

[Synnett]

Everyone has been amazing, and I can beat a lot of people in my community, but Captain Falcons always give me trouble, what about that matchup?

Ah well, for this one I can't really give you a guide, as there is so much stuff you'll end up spaghetti-ing everywhere. So here's a few tips:

- Your movement in this matchup is extremely important, as he will run around and knee you everywhere if you don't move.
- Downthrow techchases are super good.
- Once he's off stage he shouldn't be able to come back. Grab the ledge and wait until he lands on the stage. He has enough lag for you to jump or get up then Koopa Klaw him off stage. Never release the ledge until he lands. If he is below you and you believe he might grab you with his upB, and you think you don't have time to reset the invulnerability, climb back on stage and wavedash back to regrab it - you should be faster. And in case you get grabbed from the ledge, tech on the wall, upB back on stage and ftilt him offstage. He's pretty much dead
- The usual techniques also work if you think you can't grab the ledge on time: bair, angled ftilt, or just a fair off stage. All that stuff works with Ganon too.
- Learn to angle your shield and lightshield.

This match up is like when you learn a new game a your friends tells you the controls and you end up being super bad at it lmao. You'll get used to it and learn your way to deal with the match up, as there isn't only one way to win it. In short he can zero to death Bowser, but Bowser has insanely good tools against him. If you have specific questions I can help you tho.

 

[Dralro]

Ah well, for this one I can't really give you a guide, as there is so much stuff you'll end up spaghetti-ing everywhere. So here's a few tips:

- Your movement in this matchup is extremely important, as he will run around and knee you everywhere if you don't move.
- Downthrow techchases are super good.
- Once he's off stage he shouldn't be able to come back. Grab the ledge and wait until he lands on the stage. He has enough lag for you to jump or get up then Koopa Klaw him off stage. Never release the ledge until he lands. If he is below you and you believe he might grab you with his upB, and you think you don't have time to reset the invulnerability, climb back on stage and wavedash back to regrab it - you should be faster. And in case you get grabbed from the ledge, tech on the wall, upB back on stage and ftilt him offstage. He's pretty much dead
- The usual techniques also work if you think you can't grab the ledge on time: bair, angled ftilt, or just a fair off stage. All that stuff works with Ganon too.
- Learn to angle your shield and lightshield.

This match up is like when you learn a new game a your friends tells you the controls and you end up being super bad at it lmao. You'll get used to it and learn your way to deal with the match up, as there isn't only one way to win it. In short he can zero to death Bowser, but Bowser has insanely good tools against him. If you have specific questions I can help you tho.

Thank you Synnett, one of my friends, a captain falcon main, always ledge hops into a down-air when I'm near the ledge trying to cover his getup options, how do I avoid this? or how do I punish that option?

 

[gmBottles]

Thank you Synnett, one of my friends, a captain falcon main, always ledge hops into a down-air when I'm near the ledge trying to cover his getup options, how do I avoid this? or how do I punish that option?

UpB OoS is a godsend. Or if he does it so often, bait it out and punish by tossing him back offstage

 

[Dralro]

UpB OoS is a godsend. Or if he does it so often, bait it out and punish by tossing him back offstage

Got it, thank you Lum

 

[Synnett]

You can also try to get a Utilt, since it comes out pretty fast. You can then punish on the platform

But yes, UpB is a good option, as he can't hit you for the first four frames of the upB as you are intangible. I believe Falcon is inside you when he gets the dair as he starts low, so that means you hit first. I'm not sure if it can trade tho.

 

[Dralro]

Well everyone seems to be out of commission, so how about we discuss the obvious, J$ would you tell us how to deal with fox?