The Basics

[Doctor X]

So everybody keeps talking about how the Pit boards need to focus more on the basics, yet despite all this talk I still can't find a thread that actually focuses on the basics-- not even the Ultimate Pit Guide, which is mostly just a detailed moveset list.

There are lots of failed attempts, to be sure, some of my own threads among them. They always get cluttered up with too much speculation and overblown discussion on things that don't really matter all that much. Personally I'll admit that I like to hear myself talk (or read myself type ), and I don't think I'm alone in this around here. So let's try to avoid overcomplicating this stuff. Just keep it simple and to the point, if we can, k?

-

I'll start it off by saying this-- I believe Pit's most important move is his fsmash. At 19% fresh it's his most damaging ground move and, due to its speed, it's relatively easy to land. I would go so far as to say that fsmash is to Pit as ftilt is to Snake, though of course without the ridiculous range and the ability to cancel after the first hit.

I believe one of the most basic elements of Pit's game plan should be to land as many fsmashes as possible-- other players have said this before, M2K included according to Overswarm. All other moves, including arrows, serve to control your opponent and recharge your fsmash.

So, as a rule of thumb, if you're on the ground and your opponent lags within range of you, fsmash him. Don't jab him, don't grab him, don't AR, don't utilt or anything else. Just fsmash. You get the most damage that way. Anything else generally gives him an opportunity to escape with less damage than he should have taken.

Of course there many, many times and places for other moves, which we will get to, I'm sure. But I'll stop here for now. If anybody else has anything to add, please do.

 

[CYVE]

You know that you can easily dodge a FS ?

A Snake for example could easily punish you with his great tilts.

I think , that FS is great , but you shouldn´t exaggerate using it ... instead of just [or as you said very often] using the FS you should mix your moves .. but this is just my opinion

 

[Doctor X]

^Well yeah, I'm not saying you should throw it out indiscriminately. I mean that, when there's an opportunity to use it, use it. Don't waste the opportunity by using a less damaging move.

 

[Pokkit]

So, as a rule of thumb, if you're on the ground and your opponent lags within range of you, fsmash him

This part of Doc X's comment generally assumes that using an fsmash in that situation is not only a safe move, but the best move. Sure fsmash is easy to be punished, and that's why throwing out constant fsmashes is a bad strategy. Like all the other moves, fsmash must be used when the situation calls for it, like when your opponent is in range and lagged.

I'd like to continue this discussion with the d-tilt. Specifically, d-tilt spiking at the ledge. I've seen several videos in which there are multiple d-tilt spikes at the ledge that result in kills. Is this a tactic that can be used on all/most characters? Is the timing something that is the same for all characters vulnerable to it, or is it based more on predicting when the opponent will let go of the ledge?

 

[Doctor X]

I'd like to continue this discussion with the d-tilt. Specifically, d-tilt spiking at the ledge. I've seen several videos in which there are multiple d-tilt spikes at the ledge that result in kills. Is this a tactic that can be used on all/most characters? Is the timing something that is the same for all characters vulnerable to it, or is it based more on predicting when the opponent will let go of the ledge?

Rogue made a list of characters that can be spiked in this way:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190021

You have to hit them with Pit's foot. I'm fairly sure it works with the back foot as well. Invincibility frames from grabbing the edge made this fairly difficult to time well, assuming the opponent doesn't just sit on the edge and let you do it.

Myself I don't consider it part of "the basics" since it isn't really necessary to play well. On that note, I think I might suggest another subject...

-

Arrows. Arguably Pit's second most important move. Learn to aim them, and don't be shy about shooting lots of them. People may complain, but hey... people complain about MK nonstop and that doesn't stop the top-level players from using him, does it? Play to win, my friends.

Arrows are fundamentally a control move, similar to Falco's lasers. They can pick opponents out of their approaches and interrupt their projectile-throwing animations. Always having an arrow charging when you're far from your opponent forces him to be ready to defend against it, so it shuts down a lot of his offensive options until you let it go.

Additionally, hitting with a bunch of them will recharge your other moves. Notably the fsmash. If you're playing like I described in my first post and using lots of fsmashes, arrows really help because then you keep the fsmash's high damage and knockback. The fact that they can rack up lots of damage in their own right is sort of an added bonus.

Now as far as arrow tricks go, I won't discuss them here. That's one of those bits of clutter I think we want to avoid. Suffice it to say that, if you're a new Pit player hoping to learn "the basics," ignore arrow loops and rain even though they look really cool.

 

[kown]

DR.X

does fsmash have a knockback(pushes the opponent slightly away) when the opponent shields?

nice guide.

 

[Pokkit]

Arrows can also be great to force your opponent into doing something he doesn't want to do. For example, shooting a lot of arrows into the air forces a ground approach, while shooting lots of arrows on the ground forces an air approach. Either way, since you know what's coming, you can prepare for it and act accordingly.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Arrows can also be great to force your opponent into doing something he doesn't want to do. For example, shooting a lot of arrows into the air forces a ground approach, while shooting lots of arrows on the ground forces an air approach. Either way, since you know what's coming, you can prepare for it and act accordingly.

What you say is not quite true
it might not be waht you force them to do
Rather they will have a slower approach
btw sorry for the slight reproach
arrows also can force the dodge or roll
which you can then punish in full

 

[Doctor X]

does fsmash have a knockback(pushes the opponent slightly away) when the opponent shields?

Nope. Man, that would be awesome if it did.

*Looks at snake* What a jerk.

 

[Pokkit]

What you say is not quite true
it might not be waht you force them to do
Rather they will have a slower approach
btw sorry for the slight reproach
arrows also can force the dodge or roll
which you can then punish in full

True true. Don't worry about the reproach; it only helps to improve the way I think about Pit.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Pit players must also use a combination of moves that ACTUALLY are useful and not no fancy stuff.

I speak of
-Pit's Chaining F-throws on large targets and fast fallers. Such characters are Bowser, Donkey Kong, Fox
-Pit F-throw to Stutterstep Fsmash, which is an instant 0-30% mini-combo that WORKS, even against Metaknight (An Up-Bing Marth might be able to escape it).

Also, A Pit needs to learn these elements:

-Defensive: Pit is one of the better campers in the game and is outcamped by a few characters (Olimar, TL, maybe Samus), but regardless, a Pit should use defenses to his advantage, especially against characters who are vulerable to it.
Pit is also one of the top ledgecampers in the game, having a lot of variety from shooting arrows at far away opponents to U-airing them off the stage to B-airing nearby opponents. Use a variety accordingly to your opponent to make Pit a force to be reckoned with.

-Pressure: Pit has a variety of attacks that can pressure different opponents. Pit has his arrows for long-range pressure, his SH N-airs that work best against large chars, and much more. Try keeping your opponent on their toes, and use Pit's variety (ledgecamping, ledgecamping, and aggression are included) in the appropirate way to limit your opponent's movement, and make them sweat with fear.

-Edgeguarding/Gimping: Pit is one of the better edgeguarders due to his controllable arrows alone. Add that with Pit's aerial attacks, and Mirror Shield gimps make him much better at edgeguarding, and gimping. His D-tilt also spikes, good, but situational.


Pit players really should try learning these things as well as the matchups, as well as NOT focusing on ATs. The basics are the more important things to learn about. Pit doesn't need ATs to be efficient. The only reason why I do it is because I've been doing it for one year, long experience.
Still, Pit players need Basics, matchup experience, and the Elements of Pit (random name) above to be a great Pit.

Also, some Pit players have asked me about some matchups. If you do have great experience against a character, why not contribute and help out?

 

[goodkid]

Ok, I'm seriously thinking about maining Pit. Besides the above reasons:

Why should I main Pit?

What are his best match-ups?

What else does it take to become an excellent Pit main?...I mean one who can win tournaments?

 

[Admiral Pit]

Ok, I'm seriously thinking about maining Pit. Besides the above reasons:

Why should I main Pit?

What are his best match-ups?

What else does it take to become an excellent Pit main?...I mean one who can win tournaments?

Though that really goes into the "question and answers" thread, I can answer those questions.

1: Pit is a versatile and practically balanced character who's just about even with most of the cast, and not too many weaknesses like some of the characters. He's pretty even in many sections, but excels better in gimping/edgeguarding, and recovery.

2: His better matchups would probably be Ganondorf, Bowser, Donkey Kong, and maybe Link and Ike. That's if you know to deal with them, and it's depends on how skilled your opponent is.

3: Aside from learning the basics and learning how to gimp opponents, that's just the few of the many things you need to know, but those are the more important things to being a good Pit. And Don't rely on those Pit ATs that you see often, for that's all fancy, and not completely the helpful.
You will have a hard time winning 1st since Pit has weaknesses with the more common or higher tier chars, like Marth, Wario, G&W, MK (well duh), Wario, Olimar, Snake, as well as having minor problems with Kirby, TL and Falco.
It will take some time for practice is important.

 

[kown]

do any of pits moves push a shielding opponent back enuff to where they cant ppunish? i think the answer is no...but just in case.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

I'm always hesitant to use FSmash for damage, it tends to be my main kill move for the sheer reason that it comes out so fast. The second hit can also miss, and it goes automatically. I like the control that you get from jab combos.

I'll try a few matches with more FSmash though, it does seem like a huge chunk of damage.

 

[Coffee™]

do any of pits moves push a shielding opponent back enuff to where they cant ppunish? i think the answer is no...but just in case.

Fair .

 

[Rogue Pit]

do any of pits moves push a shielding opponent back enuff to where they cant ppunish? i think the answer is no...but just in case.

Ftilt .

_________________

 

[MysteriousSilver]

Played a few matches using Fsmash for damage. Racked up scary fast... having problems killing, but Pit's always had that.

Anyone think we should consider the dtilt spike a viable kill move? Or is it too hard to set up?

 

[kown]

Yesterday on wifi..or some day ago. rogue did something nasty to me...DA>jab>dtilt spike. for some reason DA to dtilt almost seems like a combo. MAYBE it was just wifi but it seemed legit.

 

[Coffee™]

Yesterday on wifi..or some day ago. rogue did something nasty to me...DA>jab>dtilt spike. for some reason DA to dtilt almost seems like a combo. MAYBE it was just wifi but it seemed legit.

Only works if the opponent doesn't DI properly from the DA or doesn't Airdodge after it. It'll catch people that don't know about it offguard though.

 

[Uffe]

Played a few matches using Fsmash for damage. Racked up scary fast... having problems killing, but Pit's always had that.

Anyone think we should consider the dtilt spike a viable kill move? Or is it too hard to set up?

Rely less on the constant f-smash. It'll become predictable quickly and then your opponent will know it's coming. Also, f-smash can kill. So if you constantly use it, that option is out and you're left with trying to maybe gimp, bair or whatever else kill move you have.

 

[Doctor X]

Rely less on the constant f-smash. It'll become predictable quickly and then your opponent will know it's coming.

Pit's fsmash comes out on frame 6. As such, it's relatively easy to place correctly. Placed correctly it should not really matter whether your opponent knows it's coming or not.

Also, f-smash can kill. So if you constantly use it, that option is out and you're left with trying to maybe gimp, bair or whatever else kill move you have.

Everyone makes far too big a deal over this. Moves can be recharged. Pit's one of the best characters for doing it.

 

[Tikun]

How many times do i have to use an atack for recharging it?
Or how many time do i have to wait?

 

[Doctor X]

How many times do i have to use an atack for recharging it?
Or how many time do i have to wait?

Depends on how often you've used it. I believe the queue is only eight moves long. Meaning that no matter how decayed it is, eight moves will fully recharge it. You can easily do this with arrows, pummels, and other moves once you get them past 90% or so and you'll be ready to kill them.

 

[Afropony]

If you're going to pummel someone so that you can recharge it you have to time the pummels out so that it isn't a combo because if it is I'm pretty sure it only counts as one move instead of 2 or 3.

 

[goodkid]

If you're going to pummel someone so that you can recharge it you have to time the pummels out so that it isn't a combo because if it is I'm pretty sure it only counts as one move instead of 2 or 3.

No, I think each pummel is separate. Lol this is part of the basics of the game that many are still unsure of. Also the que-move list is 10 moves! We need to re-visit this! This is more basic than Pit!

 

[dextasmurf]

No, I think each pummel is separate. Lol this is part of the basics of the game that many are still unsure of. Also the que-move list is 10 moves! We need to re-visit this! This is more basic than Pit!

Correct..not 8 but 10

 

[Afropony]

does that mean that Utilt would be able recharge 3 moves because it's a 3 hit combo?

 

[Doctor X]

^I believe that still counts as 1 move. You need to have separate inputs.

 

[kown]

Correct..not 8 but 10

this.
hitting an opponents shield doesnt count for anything.

hmm i think the pit boards need to focuz on frame data more.

 

[Uffe]

Pit's fsmash comes out on frame 6. As such, it's relatively easy to place correctly. Placed correctly it should not really matter whether your opponent knows it's coming or not.

With good spacing, it will be avoided. If it's predictable, it will be blocked or perfect shielded. While his f-smash is good, he can still get punished if he's predictable with it. After all, the person I was replying to said he used f-smash for damage.

Everyone makes far too big a deal over this. Moves can be recharged. Pit's one of the best characters for doing it.

It's probably one of his best kill moves if not second best. A Marth main never uses f-smash alone for it can kill early on depending on who the character he's fighting is. Instead he's better off using his fair, nair or whatever else he can use to rack up damage. A Pit main, as well as any character can do the same. That's why I replied to his post in the first place.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

I don't like throwing a kill move out there either, but it grabs you an early lead. I like it, and will be using it for damage from now on.

EDIT: Furthermore, hold on there, cowboy! I said I used Fsmash for damage, not that I was slapping the c-stick back and forth like a disobediant child.

I meant like two, three times before 100%.

 

[Doctor X]

Again, when I say "placed correctly" I mean in reaction to your opponent. If he's in a position to punish it and you use it anyway... then it isn't placed correctly, is it? I say Pit should land as many fsmashes as possible, not use as many fsmashes as possible. There is a difference.

If you stop fsmashing around 70-80% and get the rest of your percent with arrows and other moves, it will be fully recharged by the time they're at a killing percent. What Marths do proves nothing, except that maybe Marth players don't really think about this stuff either... or, more likely, Marth doesn't need his fsmash for damage like Pit does.

 

[321BOOM]

I'd like to continue this discussion with the d-tilt. Specifically, d-tilt spiking at the ledge. I've seen several videos in which there are multiple d-tilt spikes at the ledge that result in kills. Is this a tactic that can be used on all/most characters? Is the timing something that is the same for all characters vulnerable to it, or is it based more on predicting when the opponent will let go of the ledge?

most of the time, my dtilt spikes were situational.
the opponent just happened to be there, and i just happened to remember dtilt spiking.

I also think we should focus on dtilt, since it sends the opponent upwards.
It's hitbox is pretty large, and I've used it to catch aggressive opponents offguard.
It's a great set-up for aerials.