The Art of War for Palutena's soldiers! [Official Match-Up Thread]

[Abel1994]

Who are you? lol I think we never met.

yes iMAD for getting infracted for trolling when the mod starts it all

 

[Kuro~]

Abel I think YOU mad lol

Touche...

And it's on may 21

 

[Purple]

umad? I bet your mad arnt you huh? Im tired of swf ima start looking for another forum soon....

Go do it.

 

[MVD]

We have not met I don't like mad ppl they tend to be bad ppl it makes me sad that mad bad ppl feel the need to be mad over sad bad things :D

 

[Abel1994]

well what if their mad for being sad about being bad?

 

[MVD]

Being mad about being sad is just plain sad, you should be mad at bad spelling tho

 

[Abel1994]

i r mad :D


we are now NAKAMA!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i'd just like to say i went toe to toe with gnes last night in several matches. i mean ya i didn't win but i came hella close a few times and did really well. wrecked shop on some others, but im struggling hard with the MK match up still. like i can play it well, but i just can't win it at top level yet. also i keep falling for reverse shuttle loop stage spike when im planking and im having a hard time teching that ****. also laid waste to trey's g&w several times (although he also beat a few times me because he is really good not mention he had MU advantage) and did great in doubles. so yes, im confident that im improving at a rapid rate each time i go play brawl so get@me yall!

edit: not to say im not learning the MK MU yet, im actually learning a lot since sync is teaching it to me since he is a metaknight main, and esca's gonna help me out too next time i see him. im so hyped for the tourney this weekend!

 

[Kuro~]

i'd just like to say i went toe to toe with gnes last night in several matches. i mean ya i didn't win but i came hella close a few times and did really well. wrecked shop on some others, but im struggling hard with the MK match up still. like i can play it well, but i just can't win it at top level yet. also i keep falling for reverse shuttle loop stage spike when im planking and im having a hard time teching that ****. also laid waste to trey's g&w several times (although he also beat a few times me because he is really good not mention he had MU advantage) and did great in doubles. so yes, im confident that im improving at a rapid rate each time i go play brawl so get@me yall!

edit: not to say im not learning the MK MU yet, im actually learning a lot since sync is teaching it to me since he is a metaknight main, and esca's gonna help me out too next time i see him. im so hyped for the tourney this weekend!

It's hard to learn...i got the mu down but it definately is harder for pit than say...snake. Since ima snake main i always be teching those shuttle loops Glad to hear your improving maha ^_^.

Also, maha, there is no excuse to not save any matches whatsoever just get an sd card and bring it to smashfests/tournies and after the set save it to the sd card D:

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

but if i take the sd card out of the hacked wii, it won't let me save anything longer than 3 minutes right?

 

[Kuro~]

but if i take the sd card out of the hacked wii, it won't let me save anything longer than 3 minutes right?

I don't think so, but even if it doesn't:Save on wii--->transfer to SD card. Or put the inf replay file on an sd card and it will work everytime. I could get it to you but the first two ways should work fine o.o

 

[Kuro~]

Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Xcallion]

Lets do the "Blue Flasher"(sonic) next.

 

[Abel1994]

I wan ado pika. he is my worst MU!!!!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

kuro i have to intervene. wario is still a -2 even if we have found him to be easier than he was at one time. the fact remains that playing against wario is far harder than playing against marth and g&w and tbh it is about the same difficulty as the MK match up whereas before we all got experiance in it it was harder than MK. you are over rating us in that particular match up man, and i don't like to say pit is over rated ever but in this case i have to speak my mind.

everything else is A-OK except i struggle a lot with the olimar MU. that character just beats my playstyle and i don't know what to do against him at all. everyone says get in close, i find it impossible. after diddy i hope we do olimar because he is just so hard for me.

 

[Xcallion]

I've played against some pretty good wario's and i dont find the MU to be anywhere close to the MK difficulty level.

 

[fUddO]

MK is much more difficult. I'd put Wario more in the -1.5 range, lol.

 

[Kuro~]

kuro i have to intervene. wario is still a -2 even if we have found him to be easier than he was at one time. the fact remains that playing against wario is far harder than playing against marth and g&w and tbh it is about the same difficulty as the MK match up whereas before we all got experiance in it it was harder than MK. you are over rating us in that particular match up man, and i don't like to say pit is over rated ever but in this case i have to speak my mind.

everything else is A-OK except i struggle a lot with the olimar MU. that character just beats my playstyle and i don't know what to do against him at all. everyone says get in close, i find it impossible. after diddy i hope we do olimar because he is just so hard for me.

Idk im not seeing it as a huge disadvantage since i figured it out. I literally have godlike patience for this game. My friend who picked up pit quite a little time ago is already doing well in the mu against one of the top warios in Fl since i showed him how gay to be. From watching him and myself i'm starting to lean towards -1 but i still feel somewhere near 2 at the same time lol.

Maha, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=288683 I disagree with a bunch of what was said. So just be ready for when i do my summary.

 

[fUddO]

That's so true. The trick to Wario seems to be keeping your patience. IMO, that's my next step. I keep winning 1st stock really easily, and then losing momentum super-fast.

 

[KiraFlax]

this chart right now seems pretty right

 

[Kuro~]

Thanks kira ^^

 

[Abel1994]

Thanks Mod ^^

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

my vote goes towards wolf. i mean damn, that is a great MU to have knowledge about, and fortunately for yall i have plenty of wolf experiance, as does luckay so we could definately get some work done with this discussion

 

[Kuro~]

And i could mess around with my friends wolf w/pit. He's pretty good w/him. Just to test what punishes are available.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

this MU thrives off of jab and dtilt. and our utilt. sooo much utilt.

 

[dualseeker]

I would love to participate in a Wolf MU discussion ^__^! I'll vote for Wolf to be next then.

 

[Rizk18]

Man is such a solid ****ing character. His only true bad MU is
As for and they aren't bad at all with only a -1.
I might pick Pit up for fun or teh seriousness.

Edit: And now with banned, can be see as a top tier character don't you think? At least top 10.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

imo he already could be. but with a ban, definately

 

[Krystedez]

ban:

GW, Wario = worst.
Marth = Ugh
Dedede = Hard for Krystedez

Helllllll yea he's top tier.

 

[Kuro~]

I actually don't find GaW/wario that annoying. i'm still working on marth. Once we get under him it's just....sooooo free. It's just being able to bring that into fruition.

I stick by my belief that pit is around lucarios level imo. Mid-low high tier.


Also. Sorry guys. I was put way behind in my classes due to Financial aid **** ups. So until everything is in balance and i have a nice set schedule not much on this will get done

tl'dr could be a few months.

You tell me if you still want me to open threads and link em through the OP and such though. Cuz i can do that.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Probably low-high at best atm. I mean we haven't had many Pits around now-a-days compared to the old days, and we've been lacking a bit of knowledge, and kinda need to get used to a few stages and MUs, as well as those fundamentals, and we'll be up on that tier list in no time.

 

[Admiral Pit]

EDIT: Freaking non-responsive computer made me double post. Sorry.


What I was going to add on to this until I realize my comp made me double post, it was about the characters you mentioned, and all. G&W is annoying, and so is Marth, well both are most annoying. I'm working on Wario, and don't forget bout Oli too. He's more difficult than he seems. D3, well, it is kinda dependent on how much you know how to fight him, and kinda dependent on stages, not as dependent as the Wario v D3 MU, but just enough so you're careful.


If we can just learn some of the MUs (which will take some time), know/revise the Pit fundamentals again just in case, and know the stages (as well as CP/banning) a bit, we'll be covered for the most part. tbh, with MK banned, I feel that Brinstar can be one of our more brilliant stages to use against the majority of the roster

EDIT 2: You think we could revise the Pit Stage discussion thing and the Stage CP/Banning thing? The one I've been using for a while has been quite outdated to the point where it still says Mansion to ban on a few chars, and I'm sure things have changed a lot since then, and I've been mislead bout some of that information sometimes.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i've got some good experiance vs olimar (i mean that zori and tho).

it's even, you just gotta know which moves to use punishing and which moves to set up that punish with. oh ya and use a lot of fair (woi dropped, short hopped, watever) because it's seriously destructive on olimar. oh ya and dash attack is a must use move on punish whenever possible.

 

[Admiral Pit]

And would you have to be aggressive or more defensive, to consider we're outcamped to a degree (or at least out spammed), and those grabs ruin many of our approaches. I depise this MU a lot, just like I despise many of those top tiers, and G&W, MU-wise. If spaced SH F-airs are good, then I'll try to use it more, and I can rarely use Brinstar much against em since I'm worried bout pocket MKs. RC is the same reason, except I hate RC, period. Would Frigate work as a CP?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

you want to be aggressive as hell. your dsmash, jab, dash attack, dtilt, and fair with some grab mixups are what you want to use to get in. soon as you get him above you, uair usually outlasts whistle and then you read his landing/start edgeguarding. also grounded woi>ff fair is tremendously useful. you just gotta stay on him and abuse pit's attack priority over pikimin in this MU.

frigate, probably lylat are good CPs. not to sure about other stages. oh delphino aint bad either

 

[Admiral Pit]

So pretty much be aggressive for the most part, and try to keep him either in the air or off stage (off the ground for short)? Almost as similar to keeping Zelda off the ground, except tons more annoying.

 

[Krystedez]

Lylat, Frigate, BF, Delfino

Keep him off the ground. He likes to stay in his shield a lot, get grabs, and be sure to work on arrow loops if you want to do any successful damage while fighting, because arrows put you in a bad decision when shot plainly, you can end up pelting his pikmin throws or even worse, get hit by a purple lobbed high enough.

Just be cautious, but work on shield pokes and dash - upsmashes as well to nail him. Olis like to roll too, even though their roll is BALLS.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScTkfNzztWc
Earth Olimar footage

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

ban:

GW, Wario = worst.
Marth = Ugh
Dedede = Hard for Krystedez

Helllllll yea he's top tier.

I play my friend's G&W on a consistent basis & we go back & forth. That matchup is 45-55, it's not so bad once you learn it.

Wario...for some reason I feel like I have this matchup down ever since I played 7FO's Wario one night, it all "clicked." Then I played many high level Warios like Zebra & Krystedez online so that kinda proved what I know. Now the next test is Reflex...which will be next year.

Marth--yeah top level Marths, ugh Idk that matchup that well. This needs more practice.

DDD--I think I have this one down. Throw out spaced fairs, lots of arrows, and side-b works well for some reason(big shield, can't grab). Full hop Dairs, and grab combos.

Olimar--ugh like Marth, this one is definitely an uphill battle, needs more work.

MK--for some reason I don't think MK will be banned for that long, maybe temporary but he'll make it back. I need to work on this matchup more especially if I go to Apex.

 

[Kuro~]

Lucario mu summary is up after analyzing the discussion we had.

The matchup chart at the top of the OP has been updated to reflect current positions and might change again in the near future.

Lemme know if you have any problems, questions, concerns, or disagreements.

Lemme know what mu should be next.