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That's right - Meowth for Smash Switch

fogbadge

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I just rewatched the Melee intro three times... there isn't a human character from Pokemon at all. Please explain to me where specifically you think you saw Ash in Melee.
For that matter, please show me where Ash Greninja is in Smash. Is it a spirit? It is definitely *not* a costume for Greninja.
they were referring to the smash 64 intro

greninja turns into ash-greninja for his final smash

 

pupNapoleon

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they were referring to the smash 64 intro

greninja turns into ash-greninja for his final smash

Alright... I just watched Smash 64 opening again, as well as Greninja's final Smash.
Greninja does seem to transform... it's not really possible to see in motion, but I can agree to that (then again, Ash-Greninja was also in the main line games as a demo gift).

But-- there is no arguing that Ash is in the Smash 64 intro. You see a pair of legs walk behind Pikachu. That is definitely a stretch to call that Ash... especially over just a 'Pokemon Trainer.'
 

Arcadenik

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That said- some definite anime references:
Goldeen being useless in a Pokeball, instead of Magikarp, is a reference to the anime.
Ahh, that reminds me. I wish Magikarp was a Pokeball Pokémon in Smash... and if you hit Magikarp, it evolves into Gyarados. Just like in this memorable scene.


But-- there is no arguing that Ash is in the Smash 64 intro. You see a pair of legs walk behind Pikachu. That is definitely a stretch to call that Ash... especially over just a 'Pokemon Trainer.'
Well, this is Red’s Gen 1 artwork. The shoes don’t match. Ash’s shoes match.

1593831196255.png
 

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Ahh, that reminds me. I wish Magikarp was a Pokeball Pokémon in Smash... and if you hit Magikarp, it evolves into Gyarados. Just like in this memorable scene.



Well, this is Red’s Gen 1 artwork. The shoes don’t match. Ash’s shoes match.

View attachment 277200
I always thought Goldeen would have evolved if it landed inside water in Brawl as a kid.

Also here's a funny TR scene.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

Arcadenik

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Team Rocket in Pokémon Masters

Team Rocket motto is in the game. It’s canon now... so it is perfect for the entrance at the beginning of the match.

Meowth does battle but off-screen and he pretended to lose the battle just to help Nincada evolve into Ninjask... just like in that Paras episode in the original anime.

They also mentioned mechas but they were not shown... it would be nice if they showed one so we would have another idea for a Final Smash.

They also dig pitfalls... so maybe Meowth & Team Rocket could dig pitfalls in one of their moves like Villager’s Down Smash.

 

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Team Rocket in Pokémon Masters

Team Rocket motto is in the game. It’s canon now... so it is perfect for the entrance at the beginning of the match.

Meowth does battle but off-screen and he pretended to lose the battle just to help Nincada evolve into Ninjask... just like in that Paras episode in the original anime.

They also mentioned mechas but they were not shown... it would be nice if they showed one so we would have another idea for a Final Smash.

They also dig pitfalls... so maybe Meowth & Team Rocket could dig pitfalls in one of their moves like Villager’s Down Smash.

English voice clips are postponed due to covid but we do have the Japanese ones.

Meowth is counted as a trainer in game
So it's likely he and James will eventually be available as well, with him being his own trainer.
 

Arcadenik

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Meowth is counted as a trainer in game
Interesting. I wonder what Pokemon Meowth uses...

So it's likely he and James will eventually be available as well, with him being his own trainer.
Oh! His own trainer? Just like in that classic episode where Meowth battled Onix for Togepi.

I hope they do this... so we would finally have a Meowth that is 1) a member of Team Rocket and 2) is able to talk and 3) is able to battle in a Pokemon video game.

This is so exciting! Team Rocket Meowth is now canon in Pokemon video games!

For a limited time, Jessie and James can be battled via Hot Air Balloon in Pokemon Go! If it's a Mewoth Balloon, it's always one of them.
I would love to see Jessie and James in action in Pokemon GO.

I have always believed that Team Rocket Meowth was the best choice if they decided to put Meowth in Smash as a playable fighter... not a generic Meowth (although I would be fine with that) but a specific Meowth. It's like THE Toad and Captain Toad instead of generic Toads... or Bandana Waddle Dee instead of generic Waddle Dees.

Like I said before, I would be fine with a generic Meowth even if it means battling on its own... but if they put Team Rocket Meowth, it would be more meaningful... he would bring Jessie and James and their Pokemon to Smash... he would be battling with Ekans and Koffing (or Arbok and Weezing) as a team... it would be more exciting and unique than Meowth battling on its own... and as for theatrics, Jessie and James would bring their unique flavor to Smash... in their entrance, taunts, victory poses, Final Smash... maybe they could even show up in Palutena's Guidance when Meowth is in the match (I can already picture Jessie, James, and Meowth trading insults with Pit, Dark Pit, and Viridi)... maybe they will pay homage to Meowth's Party (to remember his Melee trophy).
 

Arcadenik

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I found an official promotional art of Team Rocket in Pokémon GO on the website.

1594354989014.jpeg



I love that Pokémon Company is finally giving so much love to Jessie, James, and Meowth.

Oh! Just imagine if Pokémon Company actually asked Sakurai to put Meowth & Team Rocket in Smash just like when the ARMS producer asked Sakurai to put Min Min in Smash! That would be amazing if that happened! A guy can dream.
 
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Interesting. I wonder what Pokemon Meowth uses...


Oh! His own trainer? Just like in that classic episode where Meowth battled Onix for Togepi.

I hope they do this... so we would finally have a Meowth that is 1) a member of Team Rocket and 2) is able to talk and 3) is able to battle in a Pokemon video game.

This is so exciting! Team Rocket Meowth is now canon in Pokemon video games!


I would love to see Jessie and James in action in Pokemon GO.

I have always believed that Team Rocket Meowth was the best choice if they decided to put Meowth in Smash as a playable fighter... not a generic Meowth (although I would be fine with that) but a specific Meowth. It's like THE Toad and Captain Toad instead of generic Toads... or Bandana Waddle Dee instead of generic Waddle Dees.

Like I said before, I would be fine with a generic Meowth even if it means battling on its own... but if they put Team Rocket Meowth, it would be more meaningful... he would bring Jessie and James and their Pokemon to Smash... he would be battling with Ekans and Koffing (or Arbok and Weezing) as a team... it would be more exciting and unique than Meowth battling on its own... and as for theatrics, Jessie and James would bring their unique flavor to Smash... in their entrance, taunts, victory poses, Final Smash... maybe they could even show up in Palutena's Guidance when Meowth is in the match (I can already picture Jessie, James, and Meowth trading insults with Pit, Dark Pit, and Viridi)... maybe they will pay homage to Meowth's Party (to remember his Melee trophy).
That's why I think they should do an amalgamation of all Meowths.
It would give him the ability to use pay day, fight a bit more competently (he can sometimes but inconsistently) by himself and have regional alts (but they would have regular Meowth voice clips).
While the TR side can translate to his personality, abilities to use pitfalls or other traps or gadgets as well as support from Team Rocket themselves.

I expect James to be available in Masters eventually at least, but given Meowth is counted as a trainer in game does suggest he would become his own one.
 

Arcadenik

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So it looks like Meowth might become Gigantamax Meowth in the anime. At least I hope it is Team Rocket Meowth and not any other Meowth.

I noticed that when they were showing the trainers followed by their Pokemon... so I concluded that Gigantamax Meowth could be Team Rocket Meowth.
  • Goh followed by Raboot
  • Ash followed by Pikachu
  • Leon followed by Charizard
  • Jessie and James followed by Gigantamax Meowth

 

fogbadge

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So it looks like Meowth might become Gigantamax Meowth in the anime. At least I hope it is Team Rocket Meowth and not any other Meowth.

I noticed that when they were showing the trainers followed by their Pokemon... so I concluded that Gigantamax Meowth could be Team Rocket Meowth.
  • Goh followed by Raboot
  • Ash followed by Pikachu
  • Leon followed by Charizard
  • Jessie and James followed by Gigantamax Meowth

well we were convinced it was gonna happen
 

Arcadenik

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I was thinking about what Sakurai said in his presentation about Minecraft Steve.

Sakurai said they don't just pick his favorites or draw from a hat... and that Nintendo often approach Sakurai with an idea for a character. Sakurai also said that if he cannot do the idea justice, he wouldn't put that character in Smash.

So... let's assume someone from Nintendo approached Sakurai with the idea of Meowth & Team Rocket in Smash, could Sakurai do the Meowth & Team Rocket idea justice?
 

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I was thinking about what Sakurai said in his presentation about Minecraft Steve.

Sakurai said they don't just pick his favorites or draw from a hat... and that Nintendo often approach Sakurai with an idea for a character. Sakurai also said that if he cannot do the idea justice, he wouldn't put that character in Smash.

So... let's assume someone from Nintendo approached Sakurai with the idea of Meowth & Team Rocket in Smash, could Sakurai do the Meowth & Team Rocket idea justice?
Hard to say, I think the concept in itself can absolutely work and Meowth/TR and Eevee/Eeveelutions are the two Pokemon massively consistently used in promotional material and throughout the series as a whole enough they'd be in proposition for such a thing from TPC themselves outside of flavor of the month Mons (heck we have the regular TR grunt Mii outfits), but whether he'd do it or turn it down can't really be said.

I'd imagine Meowth would be easier to realize than the other, but it is about whether he can make the Team Rocket concept of him justice which is the main unique flair he would have after all.
 
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Arcadenik

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Yeah, I mean, Sakurai could do Meowth justice if he wanted to... Meowth on its own isn't that complicated... but it probably wouldn't feel like it has an unique flair. It is just a cat that throws coins.

That's why I started supporting the Meowth & Team Rocket idea ever since I saw Jessie and James in Pokemon Let's Go. Suddenly it is a talking cat that throws coins AND works as a team with a snake and a poison gas balloon.
 

fogbadge

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I was thinking about what Sakurai said in his presentation about Minecraft Steve.

Sakurai said they don't just pick his favorites or draw from a hat... and that Nintendo often approach Sakurai with an idea for a character. Sakurai also said that if he cannot do the idea justice, he wouldn't put that character in Smash.

So... let's assume someone from Nintendo approached Sakurai with the idea of Meowth & Team Rocket in Smash, could Sakurai do the Meowth & Team Rocket idea justice?
thats the trouble, we have no idea what doing them justice would be like to him, wouldnt likely be what we think would be doing them justice. hey may not be picking the characters but a lot of it does come down to his own opinions and imagination
 

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Yeah, I mean, Sakurai could do Meowth justice if he wanted to... Meowth on its own isn't that complicated... but it probably wouldn't feel like it has an unique flair. It is just a cat that throws coins.

That's why I started supporting the Meowth & Team Rocket idea ever since I saw Jessie and James in Pokemon Let's Go. Suddenly it is a talking cat that throws coins AND works as a team with a snake and a poison gas balloon.
A simpler Meowth would have worked fine back when they were fine with going for straightforward characters, it's not like he still wouldn't be unique without TR since we don't really have a feline small fast claw user but it's still not as distinguishable and versatile as the Team Rocket theme, which is what he is most famous for after all.

There's likely a lot of ways you can go about it with the TR theme, an amalgamation between several ones even the regular Meowth, mechanical, using TR Pokemon (like how you mentioned or differently) etc. I'd be curious which design would be tackled.
 
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Arcadenik

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A simpler Meowth would have worked fine back when they were fine with going for straightforward characters
Right. That’s what I’m saying. Meowth in his own would have been sufficient in Melee or Brawl.

But now, with newcomers in SSB4 and Ultimate being more and more elaborate, Meowth has to go big or go home.

So... in my opinion, Meowth needs to have Team Rocket in his moveset... that means Jessie and James as co-Pokémon Trainers, sending out their Pokémon to team up with Meowth and have Gigantamax Meowth as Final Smash.
 

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Arcadenik

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I just realized something...

Smash already have Pokemon that first appeared in the anime before they showed up in Pokemon Gold & Silver.

Note these dates are the Japanese dates when the episodes first aired and when the games were released.
  • Ho-Oh - April 1, 1997
  • Togepi - June 25, 1998
  • Marill - March 11, 1999
  • Pokemon Gold & Silver - November 21, 1999
So... maybe it is okay for Pokemon human characters from the anime cough Jessie and James cough to show up in Smash too.
 

Pokelego999

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I just realized something...

Smash already have Pokemon that first appeared in the anime before they showed up in Pokemon Gold & Silver.

Note these dates are the Japanese dates when the episodes first aired and when the games were released.
  • Ho-Oh - April 1, 1997
  • Togepi - June 25, 1998
  • Marill - March 11, 1999
  • Pokemon Gold & Silver - November 21, 1999
So... maybe it is okay for Pokemon human characters from the anime cough Jessie and James cough to show up in Smash too.
Thing is they aren't fighters, and this is a pretty big technicality.
 

YoshiandToad

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I was about to mention Lucario. Let's not forget that Greninja has a direct reference to Ash now in his Final Smash when he takes on that special fusion form.

Comparatively Team Rocket has a lot more game appearances and makes more sense to include in Smash than Ash Greninja.
 

Arcadenik

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to be fair they were made for the games
And now Jessie and James are in games in 2020. Not in just spin-off games like Pokemon GO and Pokemon Masters but also in main games like Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee. And they fit in Pokemon games just fine... and I believe they will fit in Smash just fine too. :shades:
 

fogbadge

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And now Jessie and James are in games in 2020. Not in just spin-off games like Pokemon GO and Pokemon Masters but also in main games like Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee. And they fit in Pokemon games just fine... and I believe they will fit in Smash just fine too. :shades:
maybe an argument could be made for them to have their own support thread
 

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to be fair they were made for the games
Lugia however, wasn't. (I know it wasn't mentioned there but still)

 
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Arcadenik

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maybe an argument could be made for them to have their own support thread
I bring them up here because I want Meowth to be in Smash as a playable fighter (but he is clearly not getting in as a stand-alone fighter like I wanted). It seems to me that Jessie and James might help Meowth finally get in Smash as a playable fighter (even if it means Meowth has to be in a team with Ekans and Koffing). That’s why I am vocal about Jessie and James and talking Meowth appearing in more Pokémon games (giving them the video game relevancy they need). That’s why I’m vocal about breaking the “no anime” rule for Team Rocket. Yeah, they originated in the anime but at least they are owned by Nintendo and they actually appeared in official Pokémon video games. They are canon immigrants now.
 

fogbadge

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I bring them up here because I want Meowth to be in Smash as a playable fighter (but he is clearly not getting in as a stand-alone fighter like I wanted). It seems to me that Jessie and James might help Meowth finally get in Smash as a playable fighter (even if it means Meowth has to be in a team with Ekans and Koffing). That’s why I am vocal about Jessie and James and talking Meowth appearing in more Pokémon games (giving them the video game relevancy they need). That’s why I’m vocal about breaking the “no anime” rule for Team Rocket. Yeah, they originated in the anime but at least they are owned by Nintendo and they actually appeared in official Pokémon video games. They are canon immigrants now.
yeah i got that
 

DoctorFlux(Mariodk)

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Meowth/Toad is the characters that is Too much overlooked and look overdue for smash: more than Banjo,whatever is on top on smash fan polls for newcomers often

but sadly people want
Gen 8 mon: they dont care what mon just as long its gen 8 sadly but cant be a gen 1 with new form in gen 8 it has to be 100% new
or some wooden doll they have not even played the game that is from and ignore a other character that is as important but ignore that one and jumps on the bandwagon for the doll

so i agree on this thread so much
 
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fogbadge

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Meowth/Toad is the characters that is Too much overlooked and look overdue for smash: more than Banjo,whatever is on top on smash fan polls for newcomers often

but sadly people want
Gen 8 mon: they dont care what mon just as long its gen 8 sadly but cant be a gen 1 with new form in gen 8 it has to be 100% new
or some wooden doll they have not even played the game that is from and ignore a other character that is as important but ignore that one and jumps on the bandwagon for the doll

so i agree on this thread so much
i think its more people expect a gen 8 pokemon than want one
 

Arcadenik

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i think its more people expect a gen 8 pokemon than want one
That’s true. I notice that... and apparently it has to be a grass starter to complete the starter trio. :ultgreninja::ultincineroar:

Incineroar and then Rillaboom... ugh. Why couldn’t we have gotten Decidueye and then Cinderace? Oh right... we had to have a wrestler character and we needed someone to fill the current gen Pokémon slot.

On that thought, why couldn’t we have gotten the wrestlers from the NES game Pro Wrestling? They all get in a la Koopalings with Starman as the default wrestler. They could have been the retro first-party character for Ultimate.:ultgnw::ultrob::ultduckhunt:

Okay, I went off topic... back to Meowth.

So it looks like the official Japanese Pokémon YouTube channel uploaded the classic episode “Go West Young Meowth”... but I cannot watch it since I am not in Japan.

 

fogbadge

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That’s true. I notice that... and apparently it has to be a grass starter to complete the starter trio. :ultgreninja::ultincineroar:

Incineroar and then Rillaboom... ugh. Why couldn’t we have gotten Decidueye and then Cinderace? Oh right... we had to have a wrestler character and we needed someone to fill the current gen Pokémon slot.

On that thought, why couldn’t we have gotten the wrestlers from the NES game Pro Wrestling? They all get in a la Koopalings with Starman as the default wrestler. They could have been the retro first-party character for Ultimate.:ultgnw::ultrob::ultduckhunt:

Okay, I went off topic... back to Meowth.

So it looks like the official Japanese Pokémon YouTube channel uploaded the classic episode “Go West Young Meowth”... but I cannot watch it since I am not in Japan.

that was an odd episode
 

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i think its more people expect a gen 8 pokemon than want one
I highly doubt it's purely expectations, the issue is also people equate expectations to their wants, if people were actively paying attention similar to the amount things like for whatever reason Geno of all characters are getting despite having done pretty much nothing noteworthy in their series, people would raise similar expectations as him to Meowth/Toad. It's why you see whatever is the flavor of the month generally be around highest in Smash newcomers polls/votes while evergreen all stars like Meowth remain a few spots lower but never fade out as a top Pokemon pick unlike a majority of these. If Meowth was getting much more attention by the fanbase even while not being expected, it'd definitely stick up there in a similar manner and eventually garner expectations due to that simple attention (which in turn would lead to things such as fake leaks, a lot of fanwork based on the concept etc which tends to boost it), especially since Meowth has many other merits in addition.
 
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That’s true. I notice that... and apparently it has to be a grass starter to complete the starter trio. :ultgreninja::ultincineroar:

Incineroar and then Rillaboom... ugh. Why couldn’t we have gotten Decidueye and then Cinderace? Oh right... we had to have a wrestler character and we needed someone to fill the current gen Pokémon slot.
There's no official requirement for the starter type trio to be completed. Smash fans just don't pay attention to Pokemon outside of what can "balance" the roster...which, to some people, is no more, and to others, it's a grass starter or something Piranha Plant-tier.
 

fogbadge

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I highly doubt it's purely expectations, the issue is also people equate expectations to their wants, if people were actively paying attention similar to the amount things like for whatever reason Geno of all characters are getting despite having done pretty much nothing noteworthy in their series, people would raise similar expectations as him to Meowth/Toad. It's why you see whatever is the flavor of the month generally be around highest in Smash newcomers polls/votes while evergreen all stars like Meowth remain a few spots lower but never fade out as a top Pokemon pick unlike a majority of these. If Meowth was getting much more attention by the fanbase even while not being expected, it'd definitely stick up there in a similar manner and eventually garner expectations due to that simple attention (which in turn would lead to things such as fake leaks, a lot of fanwork based on the concept etc which tends to boost it), especially since Meowth has many other merits in addition.
in my experience this doesnt quite apply to pokemon, ive seen many people say they expect a pokemon and dont want one. it comes from how TPC seem to always insist there be a pokemon from the latest gen and how sakurai routinely saves a spot on the roster for one
 
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