Tekken Mafia | Now with the real endgame flavour.... Who won?

[#HBC | Kary]

Aiight.

Basically, dont really agree with Kary's attack on WL (kary isnt scum for it, though. Just wrong)

There's something about glyph's defense that irks me that I just cant put my finger on. Want to see him respond to JD.

If you have WL as a townread, please flesh that out a little for me please DH

Who else are you looking at today, besides Glyph?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

If you have WL as a townread, please flesh that out a little for me please DH

Never said I had him as a townread, just that I disagree with the attack.

Who else are you looking at today, besides Glyph?

No idea. Maybe look at krys/PL, they've been flying over my head as of recently.

What did you mean by this?

[Also, "Yep" in repsonse to the question "you town?" is a scumtell, thought I should let you know./QUOTE]

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT:

[1] DtJ Glyphmoney: Jdietz43

[0] -Masquerain-
[0] Dark Horse
[0] Kary
[0] Krystedez
[0] Nabe
[0] Fynal
[0] Pink Lemonade
[0] Jdietz43
[0] WashedLaundry

[9] Not Voting: -Masquerain- / Dark Horse / Krystedez / DtJ Glyphmoney / Nabe / WashedLaundry / Fynal / Pink Lemonade / Kary

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
Deadline set for Monday 23rd July, Midnight GMT.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Never said I had him as a townread, just that I disagree with the attack.

Fair enough, wanted to know which it was.
Do you have WL as a townread? I take it you don't.

What did you mean by this?

Also, "Yep" in repsonse to the question "you town?" is a scumtell, thought I should let you know.

Remember when I asked J whether he was town?

Yup

I was just throwing something flimsy at WL to see how he'd react; occasionally responses to the question 'you town?' are revealing.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Fair enough, wanted to know which it was.
Do you have WL as a townread? I take it you don't.

No

I was just throwing something flimsy at WL to see how he'd react; occasionally responses to the question 'you town?' are revealing.

Aiight

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

You are scum Glyph. You thought you could get away with tunneling RR until the cows came home and giving no other reads and people would accept that. A ballsy strategy, but it's just the kind of thing I can see you doing as scum. All you have to say is "I was wrong, sorry", and if people swallow it suddenly you're off the hook for having no presence at all beyond that one facet of the game. Killing Ryu was never a wrong choice: but the way you went about it was so minimal I can only assume scum intent. Why sit on your laurels for so long and input nothing to the rest of the game?

How do you feel about claiming Glyph?

Interesting theory! I mean really not a very good one, but interesting none the less.

So lets talk about being a scum player and tunneling RR. RR the VT. RR the VT who was barely playing. Hell I only need one question for this. Why would scum want RR dead over so many other slots?

Flat out, they wouldn't. RR was an ideal slot to let sit til endgame, and it would have been a breeze for me to just push people who already had suspicion on them or someone who was actually looking to be a threat in endgame.

And hmm, now WHY would I only comment on RR and leave so much else in the dark? Because you don't need to know my reads. Mafia on SWF has gotten to this weird state where everyone thinks its super townie to ask each other for reads on players all the damn time, but all that's doing is giving scum even MORE information to play with. The ONLY reads that should ever be public (in most situations) are scum reads. You had my scum read, it was Ryu. Was town hurt by my not listing out how I felt about every player? No, we just focused on actually finding scum and not giving people pats on the back for looking townie.

So not only am I defending that playstyle, I'm going to continue using it.


But that's not horribly important right now actually. The real fun is right here with you, JD. You say my approach to RR was 'minimal'. Were I just slightly less busy, I'd go quote every wall I posted in my case on RR (the case I built from the ground up). Suffice to say its a ****ton. A small novel when its combined. Or hey, maybe you think its because I only talk about RR and not slamming out a bunch of other town reads but SURPRISE I just talked about that too.

So here's what bothers me the most: you agreed with everything I said about RR. You were on the wagon, you even made a 'sarcastic' post about how obv town RR was when he self voted. From this we can deduce that you either:

1. Fully believed the case and that RR was scum. But there's a problem with this.... now you're calling me scum for the very case that YOU followed to a lynch (with ZERO resistance). Couple that with the order of how you've done stuff today (voting me --> weak glyphscum stance --> sudden hard glyphscum stance with case) and its difficult to see how someone who understood and believed the lynch was the right choice could flip to this. Which brings us to the other scenario...

2. Are scum. 'whooooooa OMGUS' how bout you look up what OMGUS actually is and read everything I've said before you go throwing that term at me. THIS is my next avenue with RR gone. I think you just didn't care who died yesterday, so the RR lynch was fine and dandy with you. You knew he wasn't on your scumteam, so why should have you cared? Just another dead townie. But now you're left with painfully little options to push, and that Glyph mislynch is looking tasty as hell after RR flipped town. Its a mistake you will come to regret.


And the icing on the cake? After I've dropped SEVERAL hints and insisted on a number of occasions that I did not want to hammer, you ask me to claim with solely your vote on me and without anyone else even suggesting suspicion on me. You're worried about my role. And maybe you're right to be, maybe you're not. I'll have to flip for you to know.


And isn't that weird, I'm not voting yet!

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Glyph- null, hammered= makes me think a scum lean is appropriate... Scum has the pre-disadvantage of not grabbing an immunity from town by a townie hammering in this game. Hammers should be chosen outright imo if you guys haven't already been doing this for the good players. So far it looks like it's been going a bit down hill so I don't know that for a fact.

So you're just gunna not pay attention to the like.... 50 times I could have hammered and was all 'no i don't want to hammer'. And then didn't hammer. And then everyone told me 'Glyph you should have hammer!' but I STILL didn't hammer. And then freaking NO ONE would hammer so I got fed up and ended the day since I wouldn't have to listen to you all tell me I should hammer anymore.

Also if you've read this game, there is no excuse for having me as null right now.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Why would scum want RR dead over so many other slots?

This isn't the question we should be asking, Glyph; that much should be obvious.

Why so much over-reaction? Like, I could make a catalogue of things wrong with your last couple of posts, not least of which is you apparently using your ego as an argument.

And then freaking NO ONE would hammer so I got fed up and ended the day since I wouldn't have to listen to you all tell me I should hammer anymore.

That's not how I remember it... pretty sure Fynal said he'd be down to hammer.



Glyph you crazy

 

[Krystedez]

@why WL and PL:

I believe from their wagons it is a tell of alignment. Cop one, and the other is the opposite imo.

@Glyph:

...That's dumb lol. Even if it were true, the fact is, every time a scum member has been lynched, I expect it to be a townie. Everytime a town member has been lynched, I would look at whether or not a discussion has been held to decide WHO should hammer period before they just go "dude, gunna hammer". If the latter is true, I'd say there's a chance of a player being scummy, but not neccessarily scum. In any case, if your play has been as good as you say it is, then I'll leave it at that.

I'll put out a read list later this week, I'm still fairly slow in catching up, but esssentially the mechanic of a champion in this game per lynch piques my interest in regards to strategy play and scum/town tells based on wagons. It's about all I have to work with before I can fully examine each player's slot fairly. Like I said, all the above were just leans, not reads.

 

[Krystedez]

Nvm, Glyph, your post to Diets just reconfirmed some of my suspicions. and removed them for you... You're clear to me and not null, but I really like your ideals about reads. So maybe I'll follow suit. Just scum reads from now on. Afterall, that is why we're playing.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I believe from their wagons it is a tell of alignment. Cop one, and the other is the opposite imo.

That doesn't cut it

 

[Jdietz43]

Interesting theory! I mean really not a very good one, but interesting none the less.

So lets talk about being a scum player and tunneling RR. RR the VT. RR the VT who was barely playing. Hell I only need one question for this. Why would scum want RR dead over so many other slots?

Flat out, they wouldn't. RR was an ideal slot to let sit til endgame, and it would have been a breeze for me to just push people who already had suspicion on them or someone who was actually looking to be a threat in endgame.

You would, it's an easy way to get into the game and cause a mislynch... or maybe you even thought he was indy. RR sitting on his *** is also a sitting duck target, the problem isn't that you went for RR, it's that you went for RR without telling us how you felt about anything else.

And hmm, now WHY would I only comment on RR and leave so much else in the dark? Because you don't need to know my reads. Mafia on SWF has gotten to this weird state where everyone thinks its super townie to ask each other for reads on players all the damn time, but all that's doing is giving scum even MORE information to play with. The ONLY reads that should ever be public (in most situations) are scum reads. You had my scum read, it was Ryu. Was town hurt by my not listing out how I felt about every player? No, we just focused on actually finding scum and not giving people pats on the back for looking townie.

So not only am I defending that playstyle, I'm going to continue using it.

Incorrect, giving us no information on how you feel on any portion of the game besides RR is anti-town. You leave us no information to judge you on and you're publicly claiming this is intentional. Drop that playstyle.

But that's not horribly important right now actually. The real fun is right here with you, JD. You say my approach to RR was 'minimal'. Were I just slightly less busy, I'd go quote every wall I posted in my case on RR (the case I built from the ground up). Suffice to say its a ****ton. A small novel when its combined. Or hey, maybe you think its because I only talk about RR and not slamming out a bunch of other town reads but SURPRISE I just talked about that too.

Minimal as in you spoke of nothing else: yes you wrote volumes on RR, but nothing else. Now that RR is flipped town I've no reason to believe this puts you in a favorable light.

So here's what bothers me the most: you agreed with everything I said about RR. You were on the wagon, you even made a 'sarcastic' post about how obv town RR was when he self voted. From this we can deduce that you either:

1. Fully believed the case and that RR was scum. But there's a problem with this.... now you're calling me scum for the very case that YOU followed to a lynch (with ZERO resistance). Couple that with the order of how you've done stuff today (voting me --> weak glyphscum stance --> sudden hard glyphscum stance with case) and its difficult to see how someone who understood and believed the lynch was the right choice could flip to this. Which brings us to the other scenario...

Incorrect. I'm calling you scum for focusing on RR and RR alone. RR needed to die regardless.

2. Are scum. 'whooooooa OMGUS' how bout you look up what OMGUS actually is and read everything I've said before you go throwing that term at me. THIS is my next avenue with RR gone. I think you just didn't care who died yesterday, so the RR lynch was fine and dandy with you. You knew he wasn't on your scumteam, so why should have you cared? Just another dead townie. But now you're left with painfully little options to push, and that Glyph mislynch is looking tasty as hell after RR flipped town. Its a mistake you will come to regret.

Except I'm the only one in the game who's actually found scum. You're not looking tasty: you're looking mad scummy for this overreaction to my suspicion.

And the icing on the cake? After I've dropped SEVERAL hints and insisted on a number of occasions that I did not want to hammer, you ask me to claim with solely your vote on me and without anyone else even suggesting suspicion on me. You're worried about my role. And maybe you're right to be, maybe you're not. I'll have to flip for you to know.


And isn't that weird, I'm not voting yet!

Now here's the meat of the issue. You know people had reason to suspect you after the RR flip, it's all you did and it tanked. You had to expect some pressure was coming your way as any alignment. As town I would expect you to take it with some humor, explain out why you didn't want to give out information and why RR was your top choice and discuss from there. Instead you demanded of me to make my probing a hard stance before responding, then aggressively attacked me for doing so. This is exactly the kind of play I saw from you in Gigabots as scum when we were in 3 man lylo to get me to comply. I'm afraid it won't be working this time. In case you haven't figured it out, this was pressure for a read, one that is now an actual scum read. I was fully prepared to take a Glyph who didn't attack me back for being suspicious as a town-bro so I knew who to trust, but that isn't what's showing up.

@Other's: Opinion on Glyph's reaction? It seems surprisingly negative and aggressive to me to be a town response to what should be expected pressure.

 

[Fynal]

So i had a case on kary which totally fell apart because i missed one damn post which kinda contradicted the entire thing. Oh well.

glyph why aren't you voting? is dietz actually scum? if not then who?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vote: Glyph re: the above post, I seem to remember similar play in Pizza Mafia as scum

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ninja'd by a samurai
Someone asked you a question a while back

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

What was the concept of your case and where did it fall off?

 

[Fynal]

vote: glyph
^somehow this rather important bit didn't make it into my previous post

@nabe: had to do with kary/swiss interactions at the start of D2. swiss's vote on kary was awkward as hell and kary's taking up arms vs swiss and then dropping it suddenly when he replaced out made it feel like scum distancing. except kary voted J shortly after which i freaking missed. and a few other stuff but it doesn't matter.

also @nabe: someone asked me something? checking thread brb

 

[Fynal]

uhh, can't find it

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

If you need me to lay out how I feel about everything that happens you're not just bad at mafia, you're going to struggle with problem solving in general.

So this is gigabots meta now huh. Well at least I won't have to worry about that excuse again after this game.

But I still hardly see my responce as an over reaction. You stated a read on me, and I explained why it was wrong. If you want to lynch me for not playing baby's first mafia and telling you everything then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

hey look, ego as argument again

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You stated a read on me, and I explained why it was wrong.

No, no you didn't. No, you didn't. Ugh.

Who's scum, Glyph?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I absolutely did. The case, at its core, is that its scummy for me to not share my reads. I explained the merits of it from a town pov.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Way to confuse the case with the read, then.

Who's scum?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Except it's not townie because you're also limiting that information from town, who use it to read you, get your point of view, and actually try to understand you. Considering your only action at this point, apparently, has been to sit on RR and get him lynched, that's the only thing we have to judge you on.

And that **** about "WOULD SCUM LYNCH RR?" **** is mad scummy in and of itself.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Then lynch me. I'm not going to argue whether or not what I did was scummy since what I did is how I would have everyone play mafia if I could. You don't NEED information from me, you've got an abundance in my case on RR. There hasn't been another read I've felt as strongly about as RR to come up yet and thus I haven't made a push that hard again yet. But it is incredibly frustrating to be called scum over something that just doesn't fit DGames 'town meta'.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Wow I feel like RR right now. Karma I guess haha

 

[Jdietz43]

You shouldn't be frustrated over being called scum for something that's against the meta, you should be frustrated you took a routine question of alignment afterwords so terribly.

(Karma is a *****, yeah.)


@Mod: request votecount

 

[Dooms]

I'm V/LA. Next two weeks. Weekdays only.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Full reads once RR is set to be the lynch for today. I won't have the things I've noticed lost just because we ran out of time in twilight.

Why'd you tell me this?

You caught me RR

Pro-town motivation for this post?

In the event that you're town and are lynched, will you give us your reads in twilight?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@DH: your opinion on Glyph's play today?

@Nabe: Dark Horse should be the hammer today Y/N?

@JDietz: We're agreed full reads from you before the end of the day, yeah?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@DH: your opinion on Glyph's play today?

To put it bluntly, it's bloody ****ing ridiculous. The entire wifom of RR reeks, coupled with this:

1. Fully believed the case and that RR was scum. But there's a problem with this.... now you're calling me scum for the very case that YOU followed to a lynch (with ZERO resistance). Couple that with the order of how you've done stuff today (voting me --> weak glyphscum stance --> sudden hard glyphscum stance with case) and its difficult to see how someone who understood and believed the lynch was the right choice could flip to this. Which brings us to the other scenario...

Which is funny, because not only has JD proven him wrong, but the entire attack makes the assumption that scum cannot scumhunt (it's basically "You agreed with my attack. How can you think im scum?")

And this:

Then lynch me. I'm not going to argue whether or not what I did was scummy since what I did is how I would have everyone play mafia if I could. You don't NEED information from me, you've got an abundance in my case on RR. There hasn't been another read I've felt as strongly about as RR to come up yet and thus I haven't made a push that hard again yet. But it is incredibly frustrating to be called scum over something that just doesn't fit DGames 'town meta'..

Just about speaks for itself.

So yeah, seeing glyphscum

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT:

[3] DtJ Glyphmoney: Jdietz43 / Nabe / Fynal

[0] -Masquerain-
[0] Dark Horse
[0] Kary
[0] Krystedez
[0] Nabe
[0] Fynal
[0] Pink Lemonade
[0] Jdietz43
[0] WashedLaundry

[7] Not Voting: -Masquerain- / Dark Horse / Krystedez / DtJ Glyphmoney / WashedLaundry / Pink Lemonade / Kary

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
Deadline set for Monday 23rd July, Midnight GMT.

_

Declared V/LAs

• -Masquerain- (until the weekend)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Glyph, are you not providing reads as a matter of principles, or do you not have another scumread?

Kary, not really sure what to think about the hammer, I'll get back to you on that. But I agree with the sentiment IYKWIM.

 

[Fynal]

@mod: request replacement

i'm terribly sorry, i thought for sure i'd have time before we left on camping trip to finish this game but man its gone on really long.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Pink Lemonade: you're still in this game, right?

Lend me your thoughts, please, then answer me this:

Who's scum with Glyph?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@Pink Lemonade: you're still in this game, right?

Lend me your thoughts, please, then answer me this:

Who's scum with Glyph?

Yes, I am (the July head is anyways)

Been in the process of reread certain players. Finished rereading DH, can post the full post/thoughts when I get everyone else done too, but I really think that DH is town and was being used by Swiss D1 like a tool to help get the lynch he wanted. The interactions between him and Swiss seem genuine from DH's side in that he really thought he had good reads because they lined up with Swiss's when in reality Swiss was just using him.

Still looking into you and WL, just lacking on time to pull it out ;-; Honestly I was interested in this as well:

vote: glyph
^somehow this rather important bit didn't make it into my previous post

@nabe: had to do with kary/swiss interactions at the start of D2. swiss's vote on kary was awkward as hell and kary's taking up arms vs swiss and then dropping it suddenly when he replaced out made it feel like scum distancing. except kary voted J shortly after which i freaking missed. and a few other stuff but it doesn't matter.

also @nabe: someone asked me something? checking thread brb

Because there was something off about it and your interactions with RR on D3 and I remember thinking that if he flipped scum I was going to look into you; then he flipped town and then those interactions got confusing.

I wasn't planning on looking into Glyph toDay but then this:

1. Fully believed the case and that RR was scum. But there's a problem with this.... now you're calling me scum for the very case that YOU followed to a lynch (with ZERO resistance). Couple that with the order of how you've done stuff today (voting me --> weak glyphscum stance --> sudden hard glyphscum stance with case) and its difficult to see how someone who understood and believed the lynch was the right choice could flip to this. Which brings us to the other scenario...

2. Are scum. 'whooooooa OMGUS' how bout you look up what OMGUS actually is and read everything I've said before you go throwing that term at me. THIS is my next avenue with RR gone. I think you just didn't care who died yesterday, so the RR lynch was fine and dandy with you. You knew he wasn't on your scumteam, so why should have you cared? Just another dead townie. But now you're left with painfully little options to push, and that Glyph mislynch is looking tasty as hell after RR flipped town. Its a mistake you will come to regret.

Point 1 makes a critical flaw already in trying to say that the way that JDeitz pushed for RR is the same way that Glyph pushed for RR. Glyph dedicated his entire play to the RR lynch whereas JDietz supported the RR lynch off the high possibility of a RR/J scumteam.

And then point 2 just seems desperate. Glyph had no problems with JDietz or his claim until just now when he was out of places to push and feeling pressure himself, and as others have said his entire post is an overreaction to the suspicions on him toDay.

Because waggon started D3... I'd be more interested in looking there. I'd be surprised if who was on the waggon D4 and how was anything other than null. Not trying to rule it out, just not what I'm thinking 'bout.

Ah kk, understand. When I said I was going to look at it, I meant all the way back to D2 with Glyph and follow it through to D3 and D4, but I haven't gotten to that either anyways ;-;

Thoughts on who could be scum with Glyph:

Looking at Fynal, WL, and yourself. Looking at Fynal first because I don't have a strong read on him because he's largely been a non-presence this game and because if Kat doesn't find a replacement for him, we could be in danger of a modkill with him which would be really ****ing bad if he's town but really ****ing good if he's scum.

WL and yourself because those are the leads I've been interested in since yesterDay and the RR town flip. I was also interested in DH and I've come out of the reread with a town read on him, but I'm considering that you and/or WL could be scum and I'll go from there.

 

[Jdietz43]

Still here (semi-prod dodge post)

Just found out a game I didn't know started actually has started without me knowing... and it's already in Day 2...

 

[Jdietz43]

@JDietz: We're agreed full reads from you before the end of the day, yeah?[/QUOTE]

Yes yes we did. In the interest of facilitating discussion despite having to run and read another game I'll give everyone the five second rundown:


-Masquerain-: In my heart I want to think of him as brownie townie, but as of late he's giving little input. Only point of fault was his hesitation when J was being called out by me to condemn J initially. It could be noteworthy but for now I'm putting him on the backburner as likely town.
Dark Horse: Biggest point of note is the agreement between him and Swiss on issues, whether this was purely on Swiss's end has yet to be determined. I am cautiously optimistic but need to read him some more.
Kary: Can't reconcile the overt condemning of Swiss/J slot with being scum. Some of the stances have felt mildly erratic but in my experiences playing with Kary this has often been true of his town play (Epic Rap Battles Mafia). Backburner.
[Blazer] Krystedez: Non presence, suspicious but backburner.
DtJ Glyphmoney: Overt scum in light of my recent questioning.
Nabe: Role confirmed to me, highly unlikely scum role, but should the situation come down to it we will examine it. Backburner.
WashedLaundry: Is of interest at the moment. Glyph has stolen the day, but I would like very much to hear more out of washed. I thought his recent exchange felt natural, however his previous exchanges did not always make me feel this way in hindsight. Especially his hesitance to side against J along with Joey until other's chimed in after the doctor claim. It's something I plan to look into and hope others do as well.
Fynal: Fynal makes me uneasy. Often I feel like his stances on me (even after the lynching of J) have been unwarrentedly permissive of my death or otherwise uninclined and it makes me question his movtives. I'll leave it to other's to debate for now since from me it's most likely tinted with omgus.
Pink Lemonade (July/Ranmaru Hydra): I fear for the walls. I sincerely do. Something doesn't feel quite genuine to me, though because I've mostly been taking cursory glances I'm unsure if that's indicative of scum or simply a July only PL. Needs some interactions (hopefully the post above me I haven't yet read will enlighten a bit).
Jdietz43: Sexy, so sexy it hurts. But sometimes when he does his turn on the catwalk: I become afraid of his raw power. Should be roleblocked for his own good.

Overall WL, PL, and Fynal I'm looking at right now. We'll see if we can glean any more information from discussion and potentially Glyph's flip.

 

[Jdietz43]

Yes, I am (the July head is anyways)

Because there was something off about it and your interactions with RR on D3 and I remember thinking that if he flipped scum I was going to look into you; then he flipped town and then those interactions got confusing.

I

Can you clarify what you were looking at wrt Fynal that made it feel like his interactions with RR were off etc.?

 

[Kataefi]

Can we all welcome the third and final replacement of this game ... BaRdUlL!

He replaces Fynal.