• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Technical Question: Rollout's post-impact bounce lag

The King

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
681
Ok, for starters, this is not a question on whether or not Rollout is effective for Jiggly in competitive smash. That's already been discussed to death, so try not to bring it up.
I've tried locating a thread on this, but came up empty-handed, so here it is: After releasing and impacting the opponent with Rollout, most of the time what happens is that while they are sent out at a steep horizontal angle, Jiggs ends up bouncing backwards and slightly up into the air, and the Jigg must wait both to land, then to recover from the standup animation
However, in some circumstances, upon impact with the opponent, rather than popping up into the air, Jiggs will simply remain crouching in the exact same spot impact was made, cutting down on lag time considerably.
My question to you all is this: under what circumstances in particular make this happen, and is there anything under our control we can do to eliminate this lag? I have done some testing, but have not gotten consistent results.
What I HAVE gathered is that it is far more likely to happen when impact is made on a sloped surface, such as Corneria's fin. It sometimes happens when both Rollout and an opponent's attacks collide at the same time, but this is rarely the case as it usually just knocks Jiggs back and out of his falling recovery animation. And sometimes, it just seems to happen sometimes but not others when no variables are changed.
Is there a certain environmental feature that effects when this happens? Is there a particular sequence of button inputs just before impact that might cause this? Any input into this thread would be appreciated.
If this has already been discussed, apologies in advance for creating/dredging up a similar topic, but as is always the case in this game, eliminating lag time for any character will always prove invaluable, and this would allow jiggs to follow up a Rollout with much less time and keep the pressure. Thanks.
 

RPK

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,710
Location
Santa Clara, California
-shrugs- Though it would make a good topic since no one responded to this. Plus it would be something new for the jigs community to try and discover if they hadnt already. And if they had, then Im pretty far behind >.>
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,215
In response, it seems like whenever you hit someone with rollout on an incline, or make contact with them and the ground at the same time (from the air) there's no lag. At least, in my experience I've had this happen quite a lot. Never happens on a straight roll from the ground on a flat surface, that's for sure.
 

doyoung2win

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
916
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
you cant cc while in rollout, incline and cancelling attack but having higher priority works i think. nintendo what are u doing in archived jiggly forums
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,215
maybe if an opponent is hitting you out of the rollout and you CC it. dont know if its possible, but if it is it could explain part of it.
No, because that would mean the attack didn't hit. The situation described here is when the rollout hits, but there's almost no lag.
 

theAPExp

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
601
Location
statesville/boone NC
i have no idea if this is right or even if i'm in the ballpark, just throwing some stuff out there

since puff spins during the attack he hits people with different parts of his body depending on distance, speed, their frame, slope, even random pixels perhaps. even if the hitbox is a perfect circle puff's outside body frame may dictate how he lands from which posistion he was in when he struck the opponent or following the impact a few frames later when he comes out of the attack and into the lag.

once again i have no idea, just thought i would throw something outside the box or what hasn't been said
 

thesage

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
6,774
Location
Arlington, Va
3DS FC
4957-3743-1481
The only time that happens to me is when the move gets cancelled out... That's it...
 

PrinceZane

INNsomniac
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,833
Location
West Memphis, AR / Memphis, TN
Whether its 2 years old or not, interesting situation. Can't say I've seen the thread before :)

I'd be curious on the formula for this as well. Some of the speculations seems decent, but I'm willing to bed it has to do with the stage slopes. There are a lot of things that change depending on if your flat -vs- slope area.
 

doyoung2win

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
916
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
interesting but post a link, i watched through one of his matches on mute city but not once did he stay put after hitting with rollout, unless u count the time where the hit cancelled out and he didnt even hit the fox. but we are talking about hitting the opponent while staying put (whats the point of finding this out if you dont get to hit him anyway...).
anyway, post the link, i cant stand through too many jm vids, they make me cry.
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,215
I've done this a couple times on purpose when I was testing the mechanics of the rollout. I'll try recording some clips of the lag cancelling so we can figure out when it happens.
 

doyoung2win

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
916
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
okay after hundreds and hundreds of rollouts, heres what i came to:

1. it is not damage dependant
2. it is not character dependant (to my knowledge, i did not try every char)
3. it HAS to do with slope, and not just any slope

it happens most often on corneria and poke floats. I found it happen most frequently when the opponent is standing directly above a slight angle change (none of which is completely horizontal) and when there is the "perfect angle" even if you start the rollout at the same angle as the opponent. And no, its not just any slope because i have tried many other stages and you need that certain angle or else you will bounce like usual.
Also, this method does not work 100% of the time but it is pretty consistent, maybe around 80% more or less.

It also may have to do with the release timing of the rollout (not the charge time because fully charged and held for several seconds as well as not so charged both work) but rather how long you wait after having fully charged (this i need to see more to find out as well).

The stages i have got it most consistently on are:
Corneria
Poke Floats

The stages i have done it on a few times are:
Mute City (very rare, works on the curved platforms well though)
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise (depending on the tilt of platforms)

Stages I have never been able to get it on:
Kongo Jungle (suprising? including the curved platforms and curved base, i was not able to do it on this stage)
all other allowed stages
Onett (including the curved telephone wire, slanted roofs, etc.)
Final Destination (i was not able to get it ONCE here)

also aerial rollout is not the case here, as it worsens the effect because you bounce of vertically.

(i did not include banned stages but Venom works great and Yoshi's Island does not work. Although i realized that if you fully charge rollout off the left pipe you will not fly off but rather stick to the pipe all the way to the edge allowing for some flashy edgeguarding)

I forgot what else I was going to say, I'll add it later.

edit:
oh, button inputs, DI, ASDI, don't seem to affect this.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
HINT: You're thinking on too small of a scale. Go do some rollouts on Corneria in fixed camera mode and you should understand why it happens.

Also, it doesn't have to be on a slope, and can be done on a number of other stages (Poke Stadium, Yoshi's Story, DK 64 for example) at specific spots/times. It works on like the only place you didn't test on DK 64, lol.
 

doyoung2win

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
916
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
or i could have just waited for magus to reply to my question.
here is the reason why it happens:

<doyoung2win> magsu?
<Magus> dongyou?
<doyoung2win> lol
<doyoung2win> why does jiggly not flaiil sometimes when she rollouts
<Magus> did you see my post?
<doyoung2win> yea
<doyoung2win> u said to go fixed c m
<doyoung2win> but i dont understand
<Magus> it happens when the ground moves into you during the hitlag which the game thinks is you landing on the ground after the rollout so it goes right into that rollout landfallspecial lag
<Magus> on corneria it happens when the ship is drifting upwards or horizontally moving you into the slope if youre on one
<doyoung2win> yoshih / dk64?
<Magus> dk 64 you can do it on the rotating platforms when they are going upwards
<doyoung2win> oh...
<doyoung2win> lol
<Magus> yoshis if you both happen to be on the cloud when it is on the right and going up
<doyoung2win> ohh
<doyoung2win> dam thats like
<Magus> poke stadium when the stage changes or windmill
<doyoung2win> i would have never figured it out for those stages
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,215
hahah magus knew all along and didnt say anything...evil!!!

anyway now that we know, we can...almost make it useful. all i know is ill counterpick corneria a bit more often now...
Try Jungle Japes. I counterpicked it against Marth who two-stocked me in a tournament, platform camped on the sides, and he ended up falling in the water four times with killing me. I'll definitely be playing that stage more.
 
Top Bottom