Acryte
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2005
- Messages
- 986
[Introduction]
As you all know, fox is the fastest character in the game. not only does he require quick reflexes but also quick hands. Due to the nature of his game in general and the rapid inputs necessary at times, it is known that he is more difficult to be consistent with. This is nothing new and is quoted all over by m2k etc. What is fox's limiting factor, what holds back the utility of his tech from being the peak of theory-craft metagame? Hand speed. The faster and more precise the inputs are, the more difficult to be consistent with them. The more difficult the options, the more limited they become based off of risk/reward. Every time you mess up a tech you need to question:
1) why did I input it wrong, can't I get it to 100% consistency... what feasibly is a realistic percentage?
2) Would a different configuration of buttons help in my consistency with this technique?
3) Are there certain tips or methods that could aid in my consistency with this technique?
4) If two configurations have the same consistency and I can't get it 100%, does one leave me in a worse position than the other? (different outcomes off mistake)
An important fact that need be said: NOT ALL BUTTONS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Period.
X and Y and Up may achieve the same result but they are not the same. They are located on different parts of the controller that cause the hand to reach differently in order to get to each one. At times, some buttons may be more awkward to press from certain positions than others such as Marth's retreating shorthop double fair when facing right (while techniques like slipping your thumb off the left side of Y and flicking the thumb back to the right to catch the top of the C-stick makes it easy).
What buttons are around it?... is it clumped near another button which affects your consistency because its easy to hit the other button on accident? The shape of the button vs the other, depending on the precision required, may also make one button more useful at performing an action than another. For instance if you tried to flick off the Y button going top to bottom to short hop dair with c-stick, the Y button may stick without depressing due to its shape.
Even things like using Up to jump, or not C-sticking dsmashes might cause you to be DI'ing upward/downward when you might not want to be, in case you get caught by an attack.
Some buttons even utilize a different hand... such as use of L vs R, or Up to jump. One hand might be doing something that makes it harder to time other things accurately... or one button might allow one hand to do the whole action, removing the use of the other hand and/or having to coordinate both hands together, from the equation.
There are many differences between each button and it is safe to say that although multiple buttons may accomplish the same task, they are in fact very different, and that using one button over another, when difficult tasks are being performed, may in time have an effect on one's general consistency in performing that technique.
The nature of this thread is not merely another "What button do you like to jump with? I like button ____". It is purpose oriented with preference based on the effectiveness of the button configurations in use, as far as overall ease and thus CONSISTENCY is concerned with Fox... as well as discussion of button pressing techniques that aid in greater overall consistency, such as flicking off a button or the way one might roll his finger from one to another etc.
Let's not get it twisted. I understand that a Lovage or any other high level fox could accomplish a drillshine per say with Y or X, L or R, or any other button configuration consistently. This issue is whether or not you are making it easier/harder on yourself based off that configuration and therefore may result in a greater/lesser overall consistency from match to match or day to day. Consistency with space animals is especially important because they get punished hard.
The reason I'm concentrating on fox is because other character's techniques don't require such fast and precise burst inputs to where it might actually affect their consistency regarding which buttons are used. For example, Falco is slow enough because of his laggy jump that you can use whatever button you want and still be consistent... since his tech, after practice, is fairly easy. Though there may be tips you have to make doing these kinds of techs more consistent regardless of the button used, and so this thread could also move towards improving consistency with techs for all characters that have difficult or possibly inconsistent techs, and in that case may cover more characters than fox. For the opening intent of it however, I'll start it off focused primarily on Fox.
Like I said, just because you can drillshine by tapping Y most the time without error doesn't mean it's as consistent an option overall vs an easier setup.. especially when you are tired, on lower amounts of sleep, or if your hands are growing fatigued from long hours of play... all are possible conditions, especially when long tournaments are concerned.
[Button Dis/Advantages]
So then to start us off I will ask: What generally might make one button or method more appealing and/or might reduce the difficulty of certain tech?
Well, as you come to find the most consistent button configs for each technique, do they all fit together well so that it feels natural to transition from one to the other? Does it feel natural to wavedash and then go from that to SHDL or to go from waveshining to grab, or multishines or into SHFFLED shine aerial pressure? Whatever you in the moment decide you want to do, you should be able to perform it and it should flow naturally. Some configs might make one thing easy but going from that to another thing hard because your buttons configs don't work together.
Do you sometimes mess up and it costs you a stock because you accidentally illusion when trying to turnaround waveshine to ledgegrab or don't jump before ledge-hopped lasers or nairs etc and you fall to your death? Even if it happens only every once in a great while, it happened, and there may be a better button setup or techniques you could use to make it go away for good... Lest it rear its ugly head when it actually counts and the pressure is on.
Can you simplify a tech that requires multiple button inputs into fewer actions? Such as waveshining into a single motion? A single motion when put into muscle memory will be more consistent than actively trying to make each input or over complicate it, and makes it easier to free up your mind from thinking about what you are pressing to actually concentrating on things like spacing and reads. This should go without saying. Therefore, does simplifying the action make some buttons more effective than others? For example, jumping with up may cause you to use 2 hands (besides the basic directionals) complicating what could be a more simple task and adding more factors for error.
First, I'll throw out my overall config based off of ease of use and consistency, then I will break down the methods and reasons for each as well as techniques I use in performing each one, taking special note of techniques and tips for improving consistency when applicable. The grayed out ones are generally unimportant as the tech is not difficult, though the buttons used for it may flow better with the overall config than others and are thus provided. Lastly before I go into my config, I will discuss some major button techniques and the advantages/disadvantages of them concerning fox's shorthop.
[Sliding and Slipping over Tapping [Short Hops]]
If speed in pressing the button such as the duration it's held down (Fox's sh) is a factor then you may realize that sliding across X for example is extremely easy and takes the whole "speed of pressing" out of the equation. With so few frames to properly shorthop, when you use tapping methods, you have to:
1) Press down
2) Release
Not only do you have to be very quick doing the 1st, you must also be equally fast doing the second. When using the slide method, you simply drag across X, and the friction rapidly depresses the button. Doing this, you can EASILY shorthop 50 times in a row out of shines in 2X speed in training mode. Pretty easy. The tapping method however is much harder to do consistently and you will notice that when speed is a factor you're more likely to mess it up than the slide method. In training mode under 2X it is actually difficult perform. Slipping off the button in the case of Y, is closer than slipping off X, and is faster to get out nair and more smoothly transitions to C stick than X, but B is very close and can often be hit accidentally and there are better methods than slipping off Y when not using B moves out of shorthop. But these aren't the only things that factor into sliding over slipping and tapping... When tapping, because you have to to it so quickly, you must get your thumb into position correctly on the button (most likely flesh with the button and using a certain part of your thumb). The same with slipping off Y and X. When using tapping methods, how loosely/firmly you are holding the controller will also affect how long its held down during the initial press. These things all affect it negatively. You may find yourself missing the jump entirely sometimes, if you didn't get into position over the button fast enough, and will watch what should have been a SHFFLED nair become a dash attack for example or a dair become a dsmash. Sliding across X however is very lenient both in positioning beforehand and also how loosely/firmly you are gripping the controller. It takes a lot of the variables and factors for error out of the equation.
[Acryte's Config [Fox]]
Hand position - Thumb generally anchored with top touching Y and bottom touching or hovering just above A. Transitions easily into wavedash, SHDL, Multishine, or where straightening the thumb can press Y and then A for sh nairs (comes out really fast which makes it easier for me to shorthop the nair and then move backwards off the shield out of grab range sometimes), though I need to stop using Y for that eventually since I full hop on occasion, it just feels natural in getting out the fast nair while rising.
Short Hop - if A is pressed, slide across X... if not pressed, most likely Y because my thumb is generally anchored there touching Y and A. However, I am getting into the habit of pressing A when doing things that have lengthy lags such as wavedashes etc if I know I will be dashing soon, that way I can do a slide across X for my shorthop, instead of relying on Y which is more prone to **** ups. This is is a good thing to plan on when approaching because if you **** up and accidentally dash attack you are likely to get grabbed and subsequently *****. Also, I don't try to depress A when in landing lag as it isn't quite long enough to safely and consistently opt for it when I could end up jabbing and leaving myself open.
The L and R buttons - L/R/Z I press with index fingers. Nothing special here. The use of L for L canceling allows the right hand to handle all complicated wavedash/waveshine shenanigans, while the left handles L-cancels, techs and shielding [normal/light/PS/rolls/dodges/shieldgrabs] and I JC grab with Y and Z so it's the same motion as a wavedash but using Z instead of R. This provides good distribution so neither hand has too much going on and each hand has self-contained and simple motions. Neither L, R, or Z require rapid depressing, which is important for L/R because they are spring oriented and take time to both press and release, as well as being pressure-sensitive which allows you easy control over how lightly you shield when waveshielding. Also, when L-Canceling, pressing L after pressing down on the control stick for FF'ing is very natural as one follows the other, and they are adjacent fingers on the same hand, making it very easy to change the stagger of L presses with your FFs depending on height.
Wavedash - Press Y hard and slide thumb off the left side while pressing R. Both fingers move the same basically, synchronized, and the jump lag between different characters is staggered based off the distance between fingers. I don't like wavedashing with L, other than splitting up what could be a simpler motion done by one hand, its more awkward to wavedash left while pressing L unless you claw grip. The motion where the thumb slips off Y isn't necessary but it is similar to the motion done when multishining and SHDL and therefore gets you tuned to doing that motion, making it seem more natural to be in position when you want to go from a wavedash into one of those options, your finger just continues moving down to B.
Waveshine - My thumb is in a slightly different position than the wavedash position. The wavedash position start over the Y button but slightly on the left side of it, whereas the position I use with the waveshine is touching B with the base of my thumb and the rest of the thumb is either barely touching the left edge of Y and maybe the edge of the A button, kinda tucked in that empty spot there, or not touching Y and A at all. Press Down B and then as you do the standard pincer movement with the thumb and index finger, the top of your thumb will automatically brush and slip off the inside left of Y. The thumb position makes it so you don't have to try and press B and then reach for Y which is more to the right and out of the way, it is just there already and is pressed effortlessly. As the thumb rolls and the top presses Y, it will slide downward overall and retract as the knuckle pulls back. It's like simply squeezing the thumb and index finger in a synchronized pincer-like motion. Afterward, the thumb remains in the location for more waveshines, SHDL, and wavedashes, and chains easily to drillshine, multishine, and SHFFLED Shine aerial pressure. Basically it all flows together. Minimal hand travel necessary.
VERY EASY Drillshine (not against walls so drillwaveshine technically) - Down B, Roll thumb sideways from B to A (KEEP HOLDING A) continue rolling thumb and press down on Y to jump out of shine, WD with R, rock thumb back letting up on Y and releasing R while still holding A, flick across X for shorthop, C-Stick dair, FF, L-cancel with L. Just make sure to press A real soon after B. Helps if your thumb rolls sideways from B to A and then rolls upwards from A to Y. If you press A after Y then you could possibly Grab out of shine or jump into fair. If you see this happening, make that small adjustment and it shouldn't happen ever again. Since you remove the hand-speed factor of the shorthop as well as any precise finger positioning, it makes drillshines almost as easy as waveshining, the only difficulty being in controlling how much you DI in the air with the control stick so you don't overshoot them while dairing and have to turnaround with your shine, which is standard knowledge and practice.
SHDL - press Y with top right side of thumb moving it left and letting the thumb slip off Y to B. Press B 2 times.
Multishine - same as SHDL movements but press down with B
VERY EASY Shine aerial shield pressure / drillshine against walls - Down B, flick across A and then across X, C-stick Aerial or press A for nairs. FF, L- Cancel with L. rinse and repeat. Great practice with the timing for this is in training mode. In the Smash Podcast with Lucky, he talks about a game he and mang0 used to play in Training mode with Fox vs Peach on fourside where you get her against the wall and try to get your combo to 100 hits. This will greatly improve your consistency with the timing of shine and aerials out of shine. Don't worry about FF'ing when you don't have a C-stick, just hold down since its more of a ***** without one, but once you go back into VS. mode and you have it at your disposal, it will become super easy, FF and everything. This is where you can see mang0 getting off vs armadas shield like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkaDMiIpys Shield pressure like that is actually very easy to do with the right button configurations because you don't even have to worry about full hops at all. Also a small habit, when I SHUFFLE airs into waveshines I always let the control stick go neutral before pressing down B for shine, except for nairs which feel more complicated due to not being able to c-stick them so I continue holding down like you'd normally do when landing on a plat into shines etc. This is a general precaution I developed having to play against peach players often so as not to be caught DI'ing down in case of dsmashes.
Waveshining Backwards/ Shine turnarounds - when doing waveshines backward without turning around, I always press down B and then very quickly rotate opposite the direction I want to go, and then after my control stick gets there (it should be there before you are able to do something from the shine) and I am able to jump, press jump while immediately starting to rotate the control stick back in the opposite direction, aka the direction you want to wavedash in. This will make sure that you never accidentally turn around which will flub your timing for when you try to jump out of shine and you will probably end up sitting there waiting to be punished or worse yet, possibly giving up ledge. The problem with the basic way of doing them is that down is very close to turning around, when alternatively rotating the other way first, you'll have a lot more room for the rotation and stick movement in the proper direction before you'll turn around. This is like a safety cushion and doesn't make the shining any slower.With shine turnaround wavedash back, it works the same, you rotate in the opposite direction you want to waveshine in and then once its there, the moment after he has turned around, press jump and then rotate back in the direction you want to go. Same thing basically, but now you have similar movements for both the turnaround waveshine backward and the waveshine backward. regular shines where you turn around in it to face the direction you WD in only get messed up if you don't wait that extra moment for the turn around before jumping out, so just correct your timing and put that extra pause in there.
Shine Grabs - Down B, Up, Z (using Up/Up Diagonal for jump allows you the choice to turn around for the grab, like if you daired behind them and then shined, you could turn around with the grab)
Shine Bairs - When I shine bair to make sure I always turn around to face the proper direction when needed, it's simplest if you press down B and then rotate in an arc from down to the left/right and then keep taking it upward and then just C stick the bair.
Shine Usmash - Down B, Up + A easier than C-sticking it. requires fast input and B to A is much less distance than to the C-stick.
Ledge Phantasm Stall - C-stick away from ledge, Forward+B immediately afterward. C-stick against the inside right of the thumb, tip of the thumb on the B button. When facing right however, just reverse that and put the C-stick on the inside left of the thumb. not really useful as fox, but as falco can provide a surprise meteor or be used as stall to refresh invincibility frames etc, remember you can be edgehogged. Mainly just for fun but its super easy.
[Ending Comments]
So hopefully this might serve as a forum for aiding and developing techniques to assist any players who have consistency problems possibly correct their issues and at perform techniques more solidly, while providing answers to questions about the advantages and disadvantages of using certain button configurations over others... so that they choose their buttons wisely, and play more consistently overall. That way instead of concentrating on accurately pulling off tech and making sure they don't drop combos, they can concern themselves entirely with the more important aspects of play like spacing and reads.
As you all know, fox is the fastest character in the game. not only does he require quick reflexes but also quick hands. Due to the nature of his game in general and the rapid inputs necessary at times, it is known that he is more difficult to be consistent with. This is nothing new and is quoted all over by m2k etc. What is fox's limiting factor, what holds back the utility of his tech from being the peak of theory-craft metagame? Hand speed. The faster and more precise the inputs are, the more difficult to be consistent with them. The more difficult the options, the more limited they become based off of risk/reward. Every time you mess up a tech you need to question:
1) why did I input it wrong, can't I get it to 100% consistency... what feasibly is a realistic percentage?
2) Would a different configuration of buttons help in my consistency with this technique?
3) Are there certain tips or methods that could aid in my consistency with this technique?
4) If two configurations have the same consistency and I can't get it 100%, does one leave me in a worse position than the other? (different outcomes off mistake)
An important fact that need be said: NOT ALL BUTTONS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Period.
X and Y and Up may achieve the same result but they are not the same. They are located on different parts of the controller that cause the hand to reach differently in order to get to each one. At times, some buttons may be more awkward to press from certain positions than others such as Marth's retreating shorthop double fair when facing right (while techniques like slipping your thumb off the left side of Y and flicking the thumb back to the right to catch the top of the C-stick makes it easy).
What buttons are around it?... is it clumped near another button which affects your consistency because its easy to hit the other button on accident? The shape of the button vs the other, depending on the precision required, may also make one button more useful at performing an action than another. For instance if you tried to flick off the Y button going top to bottom to short hop dair with c-stick, the Y button may stick without depressing due to its shape.
Even things like using Up to jump, or not C-sticking dsmashes might cause you to be DI'ing upward/downward when you might not want to be, in case you get caught by an attack.
Some buttons even utilize a different hand... such as use of L vs R, or Up to jump. One hand might be doing something that makes it harder to time other things accurately... or one button might allow one hand to do the whole action, removing the use of the other hand and/or having to coordinate both hands together, from the equation.
There are many differences between each button and it is safe to say that although multiple buttons may accomplish the same task, they are in fact very different, and that using one button over another, when difficult tasks are being performed, may in time have an effect on one's general consistency in performing that technique.
The nature of this thread is not merely another "What button do you like to jump with? I like button ____". It is purpose oriented with preference based on the effectiveness of the button configurations in use, as far as overall ease and thus CONSISTENCY is concerned with Fox... as well as discussion of button pressing techniques that aid in greater overall consistency, such as flicking off a button or the way one might roll his finger from one to another etc.
Let's not get it twisted. I understand that a Lovage or any other high level fox could accomplish a drillshine per say with Y or X, L or R, or any other button configuration consistently. This issue is whether or not you are making it easier/harder on yourself based off that configuration and therefore may result in a greater/lesser overall consistency from match to match or day to day. Consistency with space animals is especially important because they get punished hard.
The reason I'm concentrating on fox is because other character's techniques don't require such fast and precise burst inputs to where it might actually affect their consistency regarding which buttons are used. For example, Falco is slow enough because of his laggy jump that you can use whatever button you want and still be consistent... since his tech, after practice, is fairly easy. Though there may be tips you have to make doing these kinds of techs more consistent regardless of the button used, and so this thread could also move towards improving consistency with techs for all characters that have difficult or possibly inconsistent techs, and in that case may cover more characters than fox. For the opening intent of it however, I'll start it off focused primarily on Fox.
Like I said, just because you can drillshine by tapping Y most the time without error doesn't mean it's as consistent an option overall vs an easier setup.. especially when you are tired, on lower amounts of sleep, or if your hands are growing fatigued from long hours of play... all are possible conditions, especially when long tournaments are concerned.
[Button Dis/Advantages]
So then to start us off I will ask: What generally might make one button or method more appealing and/or might reduce the difficulty of certain tech?
Well, as you come to find the most consistent button configs for each technique, do they all fit together well so that it feels natural to transition from one to the other? Does it feel natural to wavedash and then go from that to SHDL or to go from waveshining to grab, or multishines or into SHFFLED shine aerial pressure? Whatever you in the moment decide you want to do, you should be able to perform it and it should flow naturally. Some configs might make one thing easy but going from that to another thing hard because your buttons configs don't work together.
Do you sometimes mess up and it costs you a stock because you accidentally illusion when trying to turnaround waveshine to ledgegrab or don't jump before ledge-hopped lasers or nairs etc and you fall to your death? Even if it happens only every once in a great while, it happened, and there may be a better button setup or techniques you could use to make it go away for good... Lest it rear its ugly head when it actually counts and the pressure is on.
Can you simplify a tech that requires multiple button inputs into fewer actions? Such as waveshining into a single motion? A single motion when put into muscle memory will be more consistent than actively trying to make each input or over complicate it, and makes it easier to free up your mind from thinking about what you are pressing to actually concentrating on things like spacing and reads. This should go without saying. Therefore, does simplifying the action make some buttons more effective than others? For example, jumping with up may cause you to use 2 hands (besides the basic directionals) complicating what could be a more simple task and adding more factors for error.
First, I'll throw out my overall config based off of ease of use and consistency, then I will break down the methods and reasons for each as well as techniques I use in performing each one, taking special note of techniques and tips for improving consistency when applicable. The grayed out ones are generally unimportant as the tech is not difficult, though the buttons used for it may flow better with the overall config than others and are thus provided. Lastly before I go into my config, I will discuss some major button techniques and the advantages/disadvantages of them concerning fox's shorthop.
[Sliding and Slipping over Tapping [Short Hops]]
If speed in pressing the button such as the duration it's held down (Fox's sh) is a factor then you may realize that sliding across X for example is extremely easy and takes the whole "speed of pressing" out of the equation. With so few frames to properly shorthop, when you use tapping methods, you have to:
1) Press down
2) Release
Not only do you have to be very quick doing the 1st, you must also be equally fast doing the second. When using the slide method, you simply drag across X, and the friction rapidly depresses the button. Doing this, you can EASILY shorthop 50 times in a row out of shines in 2X speed in training mode. Pretty easy. The tapping method however is much harder to do consistently and you will notice that when speed is a factor you're more likely to mess it up than the slide method. In training mode under 2X it is actually difficult perform. Slipping off the button in the case of Y, is closer than slipping off X, and is faster to get out nair and more smoothly transitions to C stick than X, but B is very close and can often be hit accidentally and there are better methods than slipping off Y when not using B moves out of shorthop. But these aren't the only things that factor into sliding over slipping and tapping... When tapping, because you have to to it so quickly, you must get your thumb into position correctly on the button (most likely flesh with the button and using a certain part of your thumb). The same with slipping off Y and X. When using tapping methods, how loosely/firmly you are holding the controller will also affect how long its held down during the initial press. These things all affect it negatively. You may find yourself missing the jump entirely sometimes, if you didn't get into position over the button fast enough, and will watch what should have been a SHFFLED nair become a dash attack for example or a dair become a dsmash. Sliding across X however is very lenient both in positioning beforehand and also how loosely/firmly you are gripping the controller. It takes a lot of the variables and factors for error out of the equation.
[Acryte's Config [Fox]]
Hand position - Thumb generally anchored with top touching Y and bottom touching or hovering just above A. Transitions easily into wavedash, SHDL, Multishine, or where straightening the thumb can press Y and then A for sh nairs (comes out really fast which makes it easier for me to shorthop the nair and then move backwards off the shield out of grab range sometimes), though I need to stop using Y for that eventually since I full hop on occasion, it just feels natural in getting out the fast nair while rising.
Short Hop - if A is pressed, slide across X... if not pressed, most likely Y because my thumb is generally anchored there touching Y and A. However, I am getting into the habit of pressing A when doing things that have lengthy lags such as wavedashes etc if I know I will be dashing soon, that way I can do a slide across X for my shorthop, instead of relying on Y which is more prone to **** ups. This is is a good thing to plan on when approaching because if you **** up and accidentally dash attack you are likely to get grabbed and subsequently *****. Also, I don't try to depress A when in landing lag as it isn't quite long enough to safely and consistently opt for it when I could end up jabbing and leaving myself open.
The L and R buttons - L/R/Z I press with index fingers. Nothing special here. The use of L for L canceling allows the right hand to handle all complicated wavedash/waveshine shenanigans, while the left handles L-cancels, techs and shielding [normal/light/PS/rolls/dodges/shieldgrabs] and I JC grab with Y and Z so it's the same motion as a wavedash but using Z instead of R. This provides good distribution so neither hand has too much going on and each hand has self-contained and simple motions. Neither L, R, or Z require rapid depressing, which is important for L/R because they are spring oriented and take time to both press and release, as well as being pressure-sensitive which allows you easy control over how lightly you shield when waveshielding. Also, when L-Canceling, pressing L after pressing down on the control stick for FF'ing is very natural as one follows the other, and they are adjacent fingers on the same hand, making it very easy to change the stagger of L presses with your FFs depending on height.
Wavedash - Press Y hard and slide thumb off the left side while pressing R. Both fingers move the same basically, synchronized, and the jump lag between different characters is staggered based off the distance between fingers. I don't like wavedashing with L, other than splitting up what could be a simpler motion done by one hand, its more awkward to wavedash left while pressing L unless you claw grip. The motion where the thumb slips off Y isn't necessary but it is similar to the motion done when multishining and SHDL and therefore gets you tuned to doing that motion, making it seem more natural to be in position when you want to go from a wavedash into one of those options, your finger just continues moving down to B.
Waveshine - My thumb is in a slightly different position than the wavedash position. The wavedash position start over the Y button but slightly on the left side of it, whereas the position I use with the waveshine is touching B with the base of my thumb and the rest of the thumb is either barely touching the left edge of Y and maybe the edge of the A button, kinda tucked in that empty spot there, or not touching Y and A at all. Press Down B and then as you do the standard pincer movement with the thumb and index finger, the top of your thumb will automatically brush and slip off the inside left of Y. The thumb position makes it so you don't have to try and press B and then reach for Y which is more to the right and out of the way, it is just there already and is pressed effortlessly. As the thumb rolls and the top presses Y, it will slide downward overall and retract as the knuckle pulls back. It's like simply squeezing the thumb and index finger in a synchronized pincer-like motion. Afterward, the thumb remains in the location for more waveshines, SHDL, and wavedashes, and chains easily to drillshine, multishine, and SHFFLED Shine aerial pressure. Basically it all flows together. Minimal hand travel necessary.
VERY EASY Drillshine (not against walls so drillwaveshine technically) - Down B, Roll thumb sideways from B to A (KEEP HOLDING A) continue rolling thumb and press down on Y to jump out of shine, WD with R, rock thumb back letting up on Y and releasing R while still holding A, flick across X for shorthop, C-Stick dair, FF, L-cancel with L. Just make sure to press A real soon after B. Helps if your thumb rolls sideways from B to A and then rolls upwards from A to Y. If you press A after Y then you could possibly Grab out of shine or jump into fair. If you see this happening, make that small adjustment and it shouldn't happen ever again. Since you remove the hand-speed factor of the shorthop as well as any precise finger positioning, it makes drillshines almost as easy as waveshining, the only difficulty being in controlling how much you DI in the air with the control stick so you don't overshoot them while dairing and have to turnaround with your shine, which is standard knowledge and practice.
SHDL - press Y with top right side of thumb moving it left and letting the thumb slip off Y to B. Press B 2 times.
Multishine - same as SHDL movements but press down with B
VERY EASY Shine aerial shield pressure / drillshine against walls - Down B, flick across A and then across X, C-stick Aerial or press A for nairs. FF, L- Cancel with L. rinse and repeat. Great practice with the timing for this is in training mode. In the Smash Podcast with Lucky, he talks about a game he and mang0 used to play in Training mode with Fox vs Peach on fourside where you get her against the wall and try to get your combo to 100 hits. This will greatly improve your consistency with the timing of shine and aerials out of shine. Don't worry about FF'ing when you don't have a C-stick, just hold down since its more of a ***** without one, but once you go back into VS. mode and you have it at your disposal, it will become super easy, FF and everything. This is where you can see mang0 getting off vs armadas shield like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkaDMiIpys Shield pressure like that is actually very easy to do with the right button configurations because you don't even have to worry about full hops at all. Also a small habit, when I SHUFFLE airs into waveshines I always let the control stick go neutral before pressing down B for shine, except for nairs which feel more complicated due to not being able to c-stick them so I continue holding down like you'd normally do when landing on a plat into shines etc. This is a general precaution I developed having to play against peach players often so as not to be caught DI'ing down in case of dsmashes.
Waveshining Backwards/ Shine turnarounds - when doing waveshines backward without turning around, I always press down B and then very quickly rotate opposite the direction I want to go, and then after my control stick gets there (it should be there before you are able to do something from the shine) and I am able to jump, press jump while immediately starting to rotate the control stick back in the opposite direction, aka the direction you want to wavedash in. This will make sure that you never accidentally turn around which will flub your timing for when you try to jump out of shine and you will probably end up sitting there waiting to be punished or worse yet, possibly giving up ledge. The problem with the basic way of doing them is that down is very close to turning around, when alternatively rotating the other way first, you'll have a lot more room for the rotation and stick movement in the proper direction before you'll turn around. This is like a safety cushion and doesn't make the shining any slower.With shine turnaround wavedash back, it works the same, you rotate in the opposite direction you want to waveshine in and then once its there, the moment after he has turned around, press jump and then rotate back in the direction you want to go. Same thing basically, but now you have similar movements for both the turnaround waveshine backward and the waveshine backward. regular shines where you turn around in it to face the direction you WD in only get messed up if you don't wait that extra moment for the turn around before jumping out, so just correct your timing and put that extra pause in there.
Shine Grabs - Down B, Up, Z (using Up/Up Diagonal for jump allows you the choice to turn around for the grab, like if you daired behind them and then shined, you could turn around with the grab)
Shine Bairs - When I shine bair to make sure I always turn around to face the proper direction when needed, it's simplest if you press down B and then rotate in an arc from down to the left/right and then keep taking it upward and then just C stick the bair.
Shine Usmash - Down B, Up + A easier than C-sticking it. requires fast input and B to A is much less distance than to the C-stick.
Ledge Phantasm Stall - C-stick away from ledge, Forward+B immediately afterward. C-stick against the inside right of the thumb, tip of the thumb on the B button. When facing right however, just reverse that and put the C-stick on the inside left of the thumb. not really useful as fox, but as falco can provide a surprise meteor or be used as stall to refresh invincibility frames etc, remember you can be edgehogged. Mainly just for fun but its super easy.
[Ending Comments]
So hopefully this might serve as a forum for aiding and developing techniques to assist any players who have consistency problems possibly correct their issues and at perform techniques more solidly, while providing answers to questions about the advantages and disadvantages of using certain button configurations over others... so that they choose their buttons wisely, and play more consistently overall. That way instead of concentrating on accurately pulling off tech and making sure they don't drop combos, they can concern themselves entirely with the more important aspects of play like spacing and reads.
