Teaching Children Melee 9: Video Update 3

[KoopaTroopa895]

Link to original post: [drupal=5160]Teaching Children Melee[/drupal]

Teaching Children Melee 1: Introductions and a question

So since I was fairly new to super smash bros melee(in a competitive manner anyways) I had decided to teach my little brothers how to be good at melee as well. Now keep in mind I am 16 and my little brothers are 9 and another one is turning 7 in two weeks. So I started off with simply showing them advanced techniques. Shorthops, wavedashes, SHFFL e.t.c. There learning it slowly, its just interesting too see them get better. It's also kind of scary because I don't need little children beating me at this game XD I probably don't have to worry for a while though, since fifty percent of the time when they try and edgeguard they jump off the edge =P

Quick question. The 9 year old (Christian is his name by the way) has a bad habit of roll dodge spamming whenever he is starting to lose. Im trying to prove to him that doing that is stupid(which it is), but he keeps beating the 7 year old(Adrian) with it. So he still think it works, any simple way to beat the roll dodging, I myself have no problem beating it but its hard to show my younger one.


In any case this is my first blog, not that anybody is going to read it but I thought I might try and do some of these things, seems pretty fun ^_^

 

[Wizzrobe]

You, yourself should keep punishing his roll dodges and tell him that it doesn't work against good players. He should eventually get out of the habit.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Just play by example. I play with my son, and he tries to copy the things I do. Eventually your brother will do the same.

 

[Vinylic.]

I'm teaching my 16-year-old little sister how to play Kirby competitively.

That way, she can learn how to play better so we can both get better soon.

Dat chudat status.

 

[Pachinkosam]

falco is just awesome too play and mario,marth

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

You, yourself should keep punishing his roll dodges and tell him that it doesn't work against good players. He should eventually get out of the habit.

True, I think he does realize that. But he doesn't exactly like playing against me, he's only 9 so its only natural he's a bit of a sore loser, still though hopefully your right and he eventually just gets out of that habit.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

You, yourself should keep punishing his roll dodges and tell him that it doesn't work against good players. He should eventually get out of the habit.

Or he'll ragequit Melee and complain about how he doesn't care about good players like my 11 year old little brother.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

falco is just awesome too play and mario,marth

I have actually only learned how to play as mario so far XD I don't really know why I chose him, but I am definetely sticking with the plumber right now(despite some problems he has)

 

[Pachinkosam]

mario is great for chain grabs but its hard to wavedash with falco it takes alot of practice.
Fox is too fast that's what makes him good.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

mario is great for chain grabs but its hard to wavedash with falco it takes alot of practice.
Fox is too fast that's what makes him good.

As of now I am still terrible at chain grabbing XD I just can't get the jist of which direction to go, also I haven't played anybody who knows how to properly DI so who knows how that will go.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

I really don't think they're ready for Smash (especially Melee) yet. Kids just don't get competitive Smash very well. I tried to teach a 10? year old in my neighborhood how to play Brawl, but he refused to play without items on and adding CPUs and playing on gay stages. Plus, he accused me of hacking ( I had loaded Brawl normally ) when I could DACUS with Sheik because he ****ed up the timing when he tried to. -_- Bottom line, kids in general don't see Smash (or gaming in general) as adolescents/adults do. They tend to think you're a ***/have no life for playing video games at a competitive level. There are likely some exceptions out there, but they're definitely rare.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

I really don't think they're ready for Smash (especially Melee) yet. Kids just don't get competitive Smash very well. I tried to teach a 10? year old in my neighborhood how to play Brawl, but he refused to play without items on and adding CPUs and playing on gay stages. Plus, he accused me of hacking ( I had loaded Brawl normally ) when I could DACUS with Sheik because he ****ed up the timing when he tried to. -_- Bottom line, kids in general don't see Smash (or gaming in general) as adolescents/adults do. They tend to think you're a ***/have no life for playing video games at a competitive level. There are likely some exceptions out there, but they're definitely rare.

I always play without items, so my little brothers don't like them either(THANKFULLY since they can be such a pain sometimes). But I see what you mean where sometimes they just think it's a joke, they didn't believe half of the tricks on youtube videos unless i showed them with a controller. That kid does sound stubborn though. I don't know if i'm going to be getting them to tournaments or anything(if they want too I don't think I would be able to say no i'd just have to go over not crying and what not). Right now I am just teaching them to be a bit more above the average.

 

[Jonas]

You, yourself should keep punishing his roll dodges and tell him that it doesn't work against good players. He should eventually get out of the habit.

Naw you should teach your 7 year old brother how to **** it.

 

[| Big D |]

As long as you're not condescending I think it should work.

 

[triad_prodigy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpYIfHWi3U


This was the brother of a really great smasher from the PA scene. Believe it or not the kid was sandbagging the guy he was playing in this video. I believe he got top 20 at that specific MLG event.


Maybe Dany was an anomaly but he literally got so good at the game so fast that by the end of 06 he was just flat out bored with the game. The smashers this child would play with werent slouches either so he def was legit.


Summary: You can teach melee to children

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'll use the example of someone I have conditioned.

1) Propaganda their minds with thinking of competitive rulesets.
2) Do not annoy them with "proper play". If you are forcing them how to play the game a certain way or constantly nagging them that "rolling is stupid stop doing it" all you are doing is turning off their drive to want to play the game at all.

Throw in suggestions occasionally "you could have teched when I kept uptilting you" or show by example multiple times stuff that they can do. If they ask questions themselves and start taking time to learn the game when your not around, then you have a pretty good idea they wish to improve.

Mixing around characters against them seems to be a pretty effective method of keeping someone's interest in the game. Constantly getting beaten down by the same character can get pretty demoralizing and requires a certain attitude to keep coming back from that. It seems not everyone has that.

tl;dr Don't over do the nagging. Keep it fun in a competitive sense however you can. It will be a slow process. But may not always work. Again, it takes a particular will to want to keep playing a game that's 10 years old and dozens of people can kick your butt at it.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

Just play by example. I play with my son, and he tries to copy the things I do. Eventually your brother will do the same.

Well I hope so, honestly though I think it's chill your playing this game with your son XD

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

I'll use the example of someone I have conditioned.

1) Propaganda their minds with thinking of competitive rulesets.
2) Do not annoy them with "proper play". If you are forcing them how to play the game a certain way or constantly nagging them that "rolling is stupid stop doing it" all you are doing is turning off their drive to want to play the game at all.

Throw in suggestions occasionally "you could have teched when I kept uptilting you" or show by example multiple times stuff that they can do. If they ask questions themselves and start taking time to learn the game when your not around, then you have a pretty good idea they wish to improve.

Mixing around characters against them seems to be a pretty effective method of keeping someone's interest in the game. Constantly getting beaten down by the same character can get pretty demoralizing and requires a certain attitude to keep coming back from that. It seems not everyone has that.

tl;dr Don't over do the nagging. Keep it fun in a competitive sense however you can. It will be a slow process. But may not always work. Again, it takes a particular will to want to keep playing a game that's 10 years old and dozens of people can kick your butt at it.

Definitely appreciate the advice, you are right in the sense that my biggest fear is making them lose interest in the game because I am trying to get them better. I would be a bad big brother if I were to do that XD. But they enjoy when I ask them if they want to train, I will keep it in mind. Does mixing characters really work though, I generally only play with mario since I am trying to improve myself as well. I'll try it next time I practice with them

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

Teaching Children Melee 2: Basic info on Them

Today I thought I would give what they have learned, problems I ran into while teaching them

As of right now they have learned to do dash cancel followed by C stick, they can short hop, and they can fast fall. Before hand they knew basic tech(wall jump recover instantly from floor). I really don't know the pace that I should be teaching them these things, over flooding them with information would be a foolish idea. I haven't shown them anything character specific, I did show them Wak017(wakssbm is his new youtube channel) advanced how to play videos. But I made sure to skip over the ones I knew they wouldn't understand at all. I'm trying to be fairly cautious, I want them to enjoy this game as much as possible. After all we are all on this forum because we enjoy smash not because we just want to beat the living crap out of everybody for mere being the best(I hope so anyways).

I will say that despite all this caution they are definitely improving, Christian especially. He's always been able to grasp games better than I was his age. He beat super Mario galaxy 1 at 4-5 years old and beat a level 3 in SSBM when he himself was 3. There are more examples of him towards the later ages, but needless to say he has always been good at video games. Adrian gets better at a steady rate, since he is seven he is easily discouraged(the fact that he is the youngest brother also means he pretty much never wins), so I try and focus more attention on him. Dubbing what we do as "special training" and making sure we play some team battles with computers so he still sees his progress through wins too.

A problem that I have immediately run into is application, now this is a given for anybody trying to get better at a game. But applying said "advanced" techniques can be a real pain in the but, remembering to fast fall, that dash canceling is an option not just your slide attack. To not spam easily counterable moves. I just want to know if this is something that comes with time.

For today I'll just leave it at this, if anybody can help me with the pacing of teaching them. Or if anybody knows specific things I should probably tell them for there characters(once again young link and Dr. Mario). That would be appreciated greatly.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Tricks I remember using to teach myself certain advanced techs involved switching the characters I used.

I taught myself to play Luigi just so I'd learn to apply wavedashing into my Shiek game. -this worked cuz WDing with Luigi is easy, and makes it's possible uses clearer.

I also taught myself to play Link to make me learn to L-cancel everything (I would spam Dair a lot just for that reason). -this worked cuz Links dair, and even his fair had lots of lag that I'd get punished for if I didn't get it right. I was spoiled by Shiek's autocanceled fair :/

I picked up Ganon so I would learn to play less agressive and space my moves properly. -this worked cuz Ganon is big and slow, so it taught me to think about what I was doing a bit more instead of just abusing Shiek's speed. Ganon's uair also requires specific spacing to get various results (like doing tipman uairs to edgeguard) so I had to time and space things just right. Did wonders for my edgeguarding game in general.

I also taught myself to play Yoshi... that was just for funzees

If you choose to try stuff like that, make sure you show them how it will apply to their character after they've learned to do it with the new one. The new characters should be ones that have exaggerated flaws that learning the advanced stuff is a cure for, and is key to playing them at all. They'll hate using the new character if they can't do the techniques though, so make sure they can do it. The character switching is just my method of forcing myself to apply what I know I can do instead of finding lazy ways around it. It can make the game more fun by learning a new character too! Variety is the spice of life, afterall.

 

[Spyro]

My brother (11 years old) and my sister (14 years old) play Melee with me sometime. It's a slow process to even teach them little things like SHAFFLing or even just things like JC grabs/up smash. My sister main's Pikachu too. Soon enough we will be on Axe status!

@Koopa try not to muti post, you may anger the gods mods.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

Tricks I remember using to teach myself certain advanced techs involved switching the characters I used.

I taught myself to play Luigi just so I'd learn to apply wavedashing into my Shiek game. -this worked cuz WDing with Luigi is easy, and makes it's possible uses clearer.

I also taught myself to play Link to make me learn to L-cancel everything (I would spam Dair a lot just for that reason). -this worked cuz Links dair, and even his fair had lots of lag that I'd get punished for if I didn't get it right. I was spoiled by Shiek's autocanceled fair :/

I picked up Ganon so I would learn to play less agressive and space my moves properly. -this worked cuz Ganon is big and slow, so it taught me to think about what I was doing a bit more instead of just abusing Shiek's speed. Ganon's uair also requires specific spacing to get various results (like doing tipman uairs to edgeguard) so I had to time and space things just right. Did wonders for my edgeguarding game in general.

I also taught myself to play Yoshi... that was just for funzees

If you choose to try stuff like that, make sure you show them how it will apply to their character after they've learned to do it with the new one. The new characters should be ones that have exaggerated flaws that learning the advanced stuff is a cure for, and is key to playing them at all. They'll hate using the new character if they can't do the techniques though, so make sure they can do it. The character switching is just my method of forcing myself to apply what I know I can do instead of finding lazy ways around it. It can make the game more fun by learning a new character too! Variety is the spice of life, afterall.

Well your not the first person who's told me to let them try multiple characters, I guess I will try using some of the characters you mentioned. If it does help them apply techniques then that'd be awesome

My brother (11 years old) and my sister (14 years old) play Melee with me sometime. It's a slow process to even teach them little things like SHAFFLing or even just things like JC grabs/up smash. My sister main's Pikachu too. Soon enough we will be on Axe status!

@Koopa try not to muti post, you may anger the gods mods.

One time my little brother's thought that pikachu was a horrible character, until I beat both of them up with it XD So I am assuming when you are responding to two people you just quote them both and write a reply, need to get used to normal forum rules. I am used to youtube where I just reply to my hearts content =P

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Those are just the characters who appealed to me the most. There are lots of characters who work in similar ways. Like Bowser, G&W, or YL would also force you to learn L-canceling habits. DK, Marth, Roy and to a lesser extent Mewtwo would be good for learning spacing. ICs are also really good wavedashers that it's easy to do with. Ganon and Falco also have really long jumping animations, so it's easier to short hop with them.

It's definately important that they play characters that they like, but sticking to one character all the time will only teach them to do things that beat each other all the time. Like, if they're just using Dr. Mario and Young Link vs each other all the time, all they can learn is that one matchup. Then when you show up using different characters, they have no clue what's going on cuz it just became a different game. If they switch it up themselves from time to time, they'll learn to adapt a lot better.

It's easy to think that just practicing your main all the time is the best way to get better with them, but I find if I put some effort into learning a new character, I end up playing much better when I switch back to my main.

 

[Wizzrobe]

I really don't think they're ready for Smash (especially Melee) yet. Kids just don't get competitive Smash very well. I tried to teach a 10? year old in my neighborhood how to play Brawl, but he refused to play without items on and adding CPUs and playing on gay stages. Plus, he accused me of hacking ( I had loaded Brawl normally ) when I could DACUS with Sheik because he ****ed up the timing when he tried to. -_- Bottom line, kids in general don't see Smash (or gaming in general) as adolescents/adults do. They tend to think you're a ***/have no life for playing video games at a competitive level. There are likely some exceptions out there, but they're definitely rare.

I disagree, if the kid really wants to get good, than they can get good and play competitively.

If they don't care about getting good or don't want to play competitvely, then yes it can be hard to train them for smash. But age doesn't really matter unless theyre like realllly young.



[glow]and @Privejokerbrown- L cancelling is Extremely important with EVERY CHARACTER. not just specific ones like Bowser, G and Watch, and YL. And its funny you mentioned G&W because he is the only character in the game who actually has a couple of ariels that Can't be L-cancelled. Which would make him the least important character to use L cancelling for. [/glow]

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

Teaching Children Melee 3: Battle styles and Bad Habits

So today I took your guys advice and was switching up the characters for certain ideas. Took PrivateJoker-Brown's advice and went to Luigi for wave dashing practice. They seemed to enjoy being different characters, also I showed Christian alternatives to roll dodging. He also had little understanding about the amount of moves you have in the air. Christian plays really straight forward, he becomes ridiculously easy to read because he smash attacks way too much. He also is a very grounded type of person in which he doesn't like jumping from place to place. Clearly a bad thing since he is using young link. I find that he tries to attack and then retreat back to the edge of the stage where he will try and shield grab me off the edge, it is not a bad strategy. But the lag from his smashes allows for easy grabs. So my main thing that I am going to try and show him over the next couple of days is different ways to get around his opponent.

Surprisingly the younger one Adrian has a much better understanding of air combos. As far as jumping the air and trying to keep the aggressiveness on his opponent, Adrian definitely out does Christian. Although he does have his fair share of bad habits. He spams Dr. Mario's sliding attack...anybody should know that that is a horrible habit and easily punishable. Because of this Christian generally beats him by playing the waiting game and then smashing him. I am trying to teach him different ways to approach, mainly the Dash cancel since he really enjoys just going head first into his opponents.

They are both getting really competitive with each other. With all of these new skills Christian usually beats Adrian a little bit. Maybe that rivalry will push them further either that or Adrian will just retire and back down completely from smash. One of the things I like to do for him is play teams with him. Usually at the end of a session as a sort of treat so he can see the fruit of his progress as well as win a good number of matches. Being the youngest brother means he has always been used to just giving up after a certain point(which is reasonable for somebody his age).

Well for the time being that about does it, I forgot to mention it last time. But I do have a capture card, I was wondering if you guys would enjoy seeing a match between the two of them or hell even me(because personally I could use some tips too) to where maybe you could get a better idea of what I am talking about through visuals and what not. So just tell me if that would be interesting or not.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I disagree, if the kid really wants to get good, than they can get good and play competitively.

If they don't care about getting good or don't want to play competitvely, then yes it can be hard to train them for smash. But age doesn't really matter unless theyre like realllly young.



[glow]and @Privejokerbrown- L cancelling is Extremely important with EVERY CHARACTER. not just specific ones like Bowser, G and Watch, and YL. And its funny you mentioned G&W because he is the only character in the game who actually has a couple of ariels that Can't be L-cancelled. Which would make him the least important character to use L cancelling for. [/glow]

I'm not stupid, I know it's ALWAYS important. But if you aren't getting punished for not doing it, what incentive do you have to learn it? Bowser/Link will definately get punished unless you start doing it. It's been years since I played Melee, so I didn't even remember anything about G&W having uncancelable moves, I just know some of 'em are pretty laggy. I never learned L-canceling early on because the first character I started using was Shiek, and her aerials are all insanely low lag/autocanceled except for dair (which very rarely gets used). It literally took changing chars for me to see why it was a big deal.

@koopa yea videos would be cool.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

I disagree, if the kid really wants to get good, than they can get good and play competitively.

If they don't care about getting good or don't want to play competitvely, then yes it can be hard to train them for smash. But age doesn't really matter unless theyre like realllly young.



[glow]and @Privejokerbrown- L cancelling is Extremely important with EVERY CHARACTER. not just specific ones like Bowser, G and Watch, and YL. And its funny you mentioned G&W because he is the only character in the game who actually has a couple of ariels that Can't be L-cancelled. Which would make him the least important character to use L cancelling for. [/glow]

Determination isn't everything. ISost kids really don't have the mental capacity for competitive gaming. Learning about frame data, MUs, DI, ATs, mindgames, reads,et cetera is a lot for a kid. I was no prodigy when I was little, but by the time I was 13 or so I started to grasp Smash much more easily. Not to mention there are few kids out there that are mature beyond their age. The little douche I tried to teach is a pretty good example.

Don't get me started on trying to tutor him in Street Fighter.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

Teaching Children Melee 4: Wavedashing and Edgeguarding

Sorry about nothing yesterday, but we really didn't accomplish anything and a friend of theirs came over so we really didn't get to practice a whole lot. But anyways onto today...

Today we pretty awesome, Adrian(Dr. Mario 7 years old) is finally starting to grasp the basic idea of wavedashing. While practicing with Luigi he actually managed to wavedash a couple of times. Now I know that doesn't sound like a big deal and to be honest it really isn't, but he honestly believed that wavedashing was just too advanced for him to even get right. So while he's no where near applying the use of wavedashing(hell I don't even use it for the most part) seeing him just doing the wavedash meant a nice little confidence boost.

As for Christian(Young Link 9 years old) it looked like he had did some wavedash practice on his own time, because he was able to wavedash a lot more, he still has a bad habit of holding the R button after he wavedashes so he can't use the C stick or any other moves(he can still grab though) it was impressive how much farther he was, although he still doesn't apply anything either.

The next thing we worked on is edgeguarding, Adrian does this bit of a roundabout way of doing an edge guard, he runs up to the stage rolls towards the edge and then short hops, while Christian just turns around.

There both still having application problems, Christian still has the horrible habit of rolling towards his enemy trying to go behind him, for which I can usually just F-smash him. And Adrian Does his sliding attack a bit too excessively. They don't Dash cancel or anything unless reminded of it, I guess on the positive side hanging on the ledge has become instinct for them. Like Xeylode suggested I am trying to moreover just push in small pointers on what they could have done instead of just bashing on them. I am also getting them used to playing legal tournament stages as well.

Also I did record 6 matches of some of our games, I scrapped 3 of them because it was 20 minutes long and I wasn't totally sure if you guys wanted to watch all of that. It's only about 12 minutes now. I'll upload it and post the links later tonight or possibly tomorrow morning.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Adrian sounds like he's got a really solid grasp on the game for a kid, he just needs to learn to be a bit safer. Rolling towards the ledge, then short hopping is actually a pretty solud habit. When he can wavedash more consitantly, rolling > wavedash backwards will serve him well. When he's practicing wavedashing, try to get him used to running forward, then quickly wavedashing backwards. If he can get the hang of that, he'll be able to approach by dashing forward > WD backwards > dash attack. Hopefully the initial dash foward > bavkward WD will bait reactions out of his opponents, allowing him to use that dash attack he loves so much. Also, make sure he knows how amazing short hopped pills are for approaching.

Breaking Christian's rolling habit is key. It's a really bad habit that TONS of people fall into when they're starting out. You just need to show him better approaches. YL is great at forcing the enemy to come to him instead, so get him using those projectiles. Try to get him to jump when he's throwing them out too. The key is to keep him moving, cuz YL should only really be on the ground if he's trying to get a kill.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

Video(referenced from Teaching Children Melee 4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ljWlRizcKo

It's unlisted so you need this link or something. Anyways keep in mind that all 3 of us are pretty terrible at this game XD It is good to be honest, and we only started about two and a half weeks ago, but I would like to say we have at least started to try and get out of casual grounds.

On a personal note, watching the last match between the two of them was funny as hell when I was sitting behind them XD

 

[KrIsP!]

They have no reason to play smash other than for fun right now so improving is not their goal I'm sure. They need to want to get better or else they'll ragequit when they deem you unbeatable. Take them to a tourney and show them how much fun it is to be there and how they need to improve to have more fun. Kids that age idolize teenagers and most players hype up little kids matches(see: crush's first tourney) and suddenly your brothers will think they're super special but not good enough to win and suddenly listen to everything you have to say...maybe. Hopefully.


Make them want to improve and punish everything. Just punishing alone isn't enough to keep them interested but letting things slide will create bad habits and an inflated ego/sore loser.

 

[crush]

i dont think pressuring little kids into learning how to be good at smash will work. they should watch hella youtube videos, then go to training mode and perfect every technique, and then start playing super smash bros melee versus mode.

(see: crush's first tourney)

if ur talking about rom, that was like my 12th tournament, it was the other dudes 1st tourney

 

[KrIsP!]

ahh whatever, everyone was hype for kids being good.

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

i dont think pressuring little kids into learning how to be good at smash will work. they should watch hella youtube videos, then go to training mode and perfect every technique, and then start playing super smash bros melee versus mode.



if ur talking about rom, that was like my 12th tournament, it was the other dudes 1st tourney

I have been hesitant on showing them youtube videos, but I think your right that they should watch them. Because there are definitely things they could find there that I can't(Dr. Mario's pill game and even basic young link strategies are beyond me). We do go into training mode quite a bit(especially for edgeguarding). We also regularly go versus mode. But to be honest I try not to rush the process, I guess showing them videos might be a good thing though. Still a little on edge

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Letting them watch videos of people playing better will definately help. It's important for them to see how what they are doing is wrong, but also try and find things they are doing right.

After watching them play, I can see that my original critique based on what you described is correct. I'll highlight a few major things I noticed.

First thing I noticed is that in game1, Adrian was actually doing pretty well to start off. A huge part of that is in the start, he was jumping at you with nair a lot more. Learning to use Doc's air attacks with short hops is A LOT more important than his ground game. When he started dash attacking you all day, everything fell apart. It's good that he's mixing up his approaches, but learning to take a deep breathe and realize what you're doing isn't working, and you should go back to what was workung. I also immediately realized that neither of you used the B button to do anything but recover. You threw out a couple random capes, but really what I wanna see from both of you is a lot more fireballs/pills. Short hopping and throwing projectiles is a fantastic way to approach for both your characters, moreso for Doc. Both Marios are better off in the air than on the ground in most situations, so start practicing the SH+attacks more. Ground game has it's place, for sure, but approaching airborne with those chars is almost always better.

Game2, omg you weren't kidding. I don't think I saw Christian ever move any other way than rolling, or dash attacking. THAT MUST STOP. You guys were on a terrible stage for YL to try and play a keepaway game, so I can't entirely blame him for the lack of boomerangs, and arrows. Bombs, however, can still be used pretty effectively there. It's still YL, so projectiles projectiles projectiles. He should probably practice aim his projectiles in training mode. You've got him learning to wavedash, when he's got a lot of basics to learn. Again, being able to SH+attack is key for this character. The difference for Christian is that he should be learning to use his projectiles to keep you away from him, not approaching. Learning to angle the boomerang and hopping around while doing it is key.

In Game3 it was all a mess. I know they're both kids tho, so I don't mean for it to sound harsh. They've definately got a better hang of the game than some of my adult friends (but they have no interest in learning the game ) A few times they got into projectile battles, but all they did was stand still pressing B. Again, they gotta practice moving around while doing that stuff. Adrian was spamming way too much charged fsmash, and Christian was spamming too many dairs, and he wasn't l-canceling them. Prolly both Link and YL's best aerial is nair (one of the biggest reasons I prefer link over yl is that link's nair can kill). Dair and Uair are both great for kills, but if it isn't gonna kill them, or the enemy isn't directly above or below you, don't try to land it. Bairs and Nairs are both a lot less laggy. Same applies to doc/mario too, those moves are beast.

Again, I'm fully aware that you guys are new, and that Adrian and Christian are just kids to boot, so I don't mean to come off like I'm being mean. Just tryin' to help yall improve.

 

[Construct]

I've been cautiously teaching my 9 year old little brother how to play, and I have to say that watching youtube videos has helped him immensely. He's probably shroomed's number one fan by now, and it's payed off quite well. He understands the basic premises of comboing and edgeguarding much better from watching those, and he even remarked "wow these guys don't roll dodge very much"! Additionally, he started using pills for more than just stationary spamming. Finally, I think this has inspired him. You remember when you were a scrub and you saw whatever video made you want to go big? That kind of effect.

tl;dr youtube videos are good

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing as how when I was 10 I got all the habits and attributes for melee on my own of which I can play today, I can see your little brothers learning it. If you want to get them to stop rolling, try showing them the original Wak melee guide first. Show them that if they want a habit for when theyre losing, use wavedashes, its a better habit than rolling. Try showing them competetive matches, show them the tiers, and any tournaments possible. I honestly got my experience from just accomplishing every AT from Wak's guide and playing CPU's till I found a fit for my style. Who do your brothers main?

 

[crush]

Seeing as how when I was 10 I got all the habits and attributes for melee on my own of which I can play today, I can see your little brothers learning it. If you want to get them to stop rolling, try showing them the original Wak melee guide first. Show them that if they want a habit for when theyre losing, use wavedashes, its a better habit than rolling. Try showing them competetive matches, show them the tiers, and any tournaments possible. I honestly got my experience from just accomplishing every AT from Wak's guide and playing CPU's till I found a fit for my style. Who do your brothers main?

Please do not listen to this guy.


Make them want to actually be good at tthe game. Show them videos of easy characters that dont suck like marth and sheik.

 

[Deleted member]

Well seeing as some of the lower tier characters are harder to start with, then how the match ups are worse, and theres not as many instructional videos on them, showing them a higher tier character could help. im not saying marth/falco all the way though, they can start with what they want.

Thats just how I learned. Maybe others hate my approach but it worked for me

 

[Wizzrobe]

Determination isn't everything. ISost kids really don't have the mental capacity for competitive gaming. Learning about frame data, MUs, DI, ATs, mindgames, reads,et cetera is a lot for a kid. I was no prodigy when I was little, but by the time I was 13 or so I started to grasp Smash much more easily. Not to mention there are few kids out there that are mature beyond their age. The little douche I tried to teach is a pretty good example.

Don't get me started on trying to tutor him in Street Fighter.

I think they do, By the time I was 9 years old, I could easily wavedash and edgeguard. Also, with a good teacher they could learn it, although I agree that much younger than 9 would be hard to deal with.