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Teaching Children Melee 9: Video Update 3

FoxBlaze71

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Wavedashing and edgeguarding are not that difficult. While Smash is much more accesible to a child than a serious fighter, it's still not that easy. It has a very high learning curve and is an "easy to learn, hard to master" type game.

KT#: In your video, I noticed a heavy lack of accurate reads from either of you. That's one of of many important things to teach them as well as just ATs.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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@PrivateJoker-Brown You cannot call that a projectile battle on game 3 XD On the positive side I did go through some L-Cancelling with Christian. It was annoying at first because he didn't see the difference for his young link's Dair. Thankfully after showing him the difference with Bowser's moves he was able to at least feel the difference with how fast he can attack afterwards. His roll dodging is getting a little better too. I blame myself for Christian's lack of progress, Christian is 2 years older than Adrian. And he understands what I am saying much better than Adrian does, my main issue is that I honestly have no idea what a successful Y-link looks like. I couldn't find any videos on it either. And yeah in game 3 they pretty much disregard everything when they play each other XD

@crush it's true that I can't play smash very good. Why I am getting advice here. Also trying to get involved in my region too. Found some cool people I might be able to learn from and hoping to meet up with them soon. So I do see what you mean.

@construct dude man same with Adrian, he always asks me if we could watch him. Shroomed has a giant kid fanbase apparently XD

Also if anybody knows any skilled young link players who post a ton of videos that would help I got a couple out of wak but thats it so far.
 

FoxBlaze71

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you should learn how to play competitive smash yourself before you try to teach children
Pretty much this. When the 7 year old kid is making better reads than you are, then something's up.
 
D

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the kids, theyre taking over. I am the master of all of them.
 

FoxBlaze71

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No, they're not. Maybe you should think of mastering grammar and spelling before mastering other 12 year olds.
 
D

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It was a joke, dont be so serious. Im so sorry my grammar wasn't amazing. You didnt have to be an *** about it.
 

FoxBlaze71

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it was a joke, don't be so serious. I'm so sorry my grammar wasn't amazing. You didn't have to be an *** about it.
Troll mode ACTIVATED! Remember those apostrophes! Use proper verb tense! The past sentences used the understood subject YOU!
 

FoxBlaze71

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Same way! Goddamn grammar lapses! Same is not an adverb when used that way!
 
D

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This thread now has no actual importance, but is rather a grammar fest.
 

FoxBlaze71

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Your first grammatically proper sentence! Good job!

Although, the conjunction choice in the compound sentence is a little iffy.
 
D

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I love you too. We should change the thread title from "Teaching Children Melee 4" to "Teaching Children Grammar"

Although, the conjunction choice in the compound sentence is a little iffy.
I actually thought that the word "rather" didn't fit there either. I wondered if you'd point that out.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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Teaching Children Melee 5: Simple update and some answers e.t.c.

I could have sworn at one point this blog was dead and then I come home one day and there's two pages filled with advice and grammar conversations. Honestly English is my worst subject and the last thing I want is a grammar thread. That entire fourth page flew right by me XD Also thought I would report some...decent news. I have been showing Christian and Adrian a lot of youtube videos lately and man you guys were right I should have done that sooner. There is just a lot of great resources that teach them so much better than I can.

Adrian's progress is probably going for the better, like you guys suggested I have been working on his aerial game and I would say he is starting to get the idea. He is in absolute love with Dr. PP because of his name and also Shroomed. I found a really good tutorial video on the pill made by someone called SmashMac. Never heard of him but man this video is great, it provided a really good visual and Adrian really seemed to get it. I'll post a link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp_qhEx3zKE

Christian was a little tricky. I decided against showing him Armada vs HungryBox, he may be nine years old but he still has a pretty short attention span(I myself struggled to finish the whole video). The combo video that ZachAttax64 showed me was good. It showed Christian how great his Nair and Bair are for combos as well as just being a really entertaining video. I think the most helpful thing I found was a guide by Laijin describing Young Link's kill move. I knew what Young Link's kill moves were, but his guide really helped me put it into words. I told Christian a little bit about bombs, I didn't want to overwhelm him. Especially since I pretty much have to change his strategy of how he plays entirely. And personally I really want them to focus on their air game. Here is the link to the guide by Laijin(figured I should just start referencing the stuff I use as respect and such).
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=99549

Last thing I wanted to talk about was the video and a little bit other stuff. I fully acknowledge that I am absolutely terrible at this game. The only point in my defense is that I did make sure I picked there best matches when they played with me(only recorded one of them going against each other BIG MISTAKE). However considering there six and nine I still know I am bad. I am trying to connect with my region(South California in case anybody is wondering) so I could try and learn some more from others. But to be perfectly honest I play with them partially because they help me improve my game as well. Even though they are kids I feel that they still give more experience than a lvl 9 cpu. So there is another factor.

Also I think I will make a video once a month, I want the videos to more be of a before and after kind of thing. Especially for the little runts(showing Christian how many times he rolled really shocked him). Thanks again PrivateJoker-Brown for the review of the video and pointing that out

Lastly I will say that they officially want to go into a tournament, told them we would go sometime late June. I may be insane for teaching children, but I am not that crazy XD....probably still a little early though.
 
D

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Honestly, seeing as how you had a lack of experience for melee, id say your doing good helping them. If I could play the kids, it'd be fun.

Also, Hbox Vs. Armada was a fun set for YL mains seeing as how hes in grand finals! But if he wants to ever space or camp, thats what armada did to Hbox so you can always try showing that again if needed.

:phone:
 

Shroomed

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I've been cautiously teaching my 9 year old little brother how to play, and I have to say that watching youtube videos has helped him immensely. He's probably shroomed's number one fan by now, and it's payed off quite well. He understands the basic premises of comboing and edgeguarding much better from watching those, and he even remarked "wow these guys don't roll dodge very much"! Additionally, he started using pills for more than just stationary spamming. Finally, I think this has inspired him. You remember when you were a scrub and you saw whatever video made you want to go big? That kind of effect.

tl;dr youtube videos are good
Tell your brother that if he has the drive to win, it'll happen.

I watched a LOT of videos when I first started playing and that helped me become a much better player a lot faster.
 

GunBlaze

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Tell your brother that if he has the drive to win, it'll happen.

I watched a LOT of videos when I first started playing and that helped me become a much better player a lot faster.
He's right. I didn't about YT back when I was playing SSB64 so I had to learrn by myself XD

Melee, on the other hand...
 
D

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Seeing as how its the weekend now, what do you have planned for the kids? Or are you taking time yourself to learn melee basics?
 

KoopaTroopa895

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Seeing as how its the weekend now, what do you have planned for the kids? Or are you taking time yourself to learn melee basics?
Actually it's Adrian's 7th birthday XD I plan on updating today but for now I have to celebrate. I bought him a gamecube controller since he used to have a gamestop brand with a B button that sometimes didn't work and a funky control stick. They didn't even tell me they had controller problems, it honestly surprised me they had gotten this far
 
D

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A bad controller? he diserves a much better one and im glad you got him one.. If you guys all have money and plan on getting a great controller, buy this. http://www.amazon.com/Official-Nintendo-Classic-Gamecube-Wii-Controller/dp/B0017KIBAI Its in my opinion the best controller you can use. 3 meter long cable (the longest for GC) A stylish white, fully functional, official nintendo brand, and its actually a japanese import! Ive had mine for about 4 months now and its still great.

Happy birthday to adrian as well, he was 6 and played smash brothers with an attitude of a competitive community. simply amazing.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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A bad controller? he diserves a much better one and im glad you got him one.. If you guys all have money and plan on getting a great controller, buy this. http://www.amazon.com/Official-Nintendo-Classic-Gamecube-Wii-Controller/dp/B0017KIBAI Its in my opinion the best controller you can use. 3 meter long cable (the longest for GC) A stylish white, fully functional, official nintendo brand, and its actually a japanese import! Ive had mine for about 4 months now and its still great.

Happy birthday to adrian as well, he was 6 and played smash brothers with an attitude of a competitive community. simply amazing.
Zachattax64 that controller looks awesome, yeah Christian still needs a new controller when we practice I use the crappy one now. He uses mine, so when we do buy him a controller we might get him the one you mentioned.

Also he appreciates the thoughts, he has had one hell of a day.


Teaching Children Melee 6: Update and Spacing

So as the above reply states it was Adrian's birthday today, he got some cool gifts but he also got super smash bros brawl. Now he was extremely happy to have gotten this game. Him and Christian immediately noticed that it was slower(which is good it means they at least understand melee's pace a little bit). However they did already bring up whether they would want to switch to brawl or not. This is reasonable, my main question is whether I should intervene or not. Because to put it simply while I definitely favor melee to brawl. I don't totally have the right to just take them away because I am bias. I just want to hear a second opinion on whether that is fair or not. The idea is that while I will keep playing melee if they want to switch or want to do both or something, I will say my opinion, but pretty much let them do what they want. So please tell me if that is a good idea or not.

Anyways I actually have some stuff to talk about as far as melee goes if they continue to play that.

Christian's progress is incredible, honestly I don't know when but he is really good at short jump nair's as well as other air attacks now. He uses his projectiles to rack up damage as well as space his opponents(although spacing is something i'll mention in a bit). Needless too say the roll dodging idiot is definitely gone and while sometimes I do catch him slip. I'd say that his game has improved a lot compared to the video from like a week and a half ago.

Adrian's is weird right now. I did get him that new controller for his birthday(nintendo brand purple controller for those wondering) but as far as his progress goes, well...he hasn't really made any XD He is definitely watching a lot of Dr. Mario vids(mostly shroomed from wherever tournaments I could find) but he seems to have hit a wall of sorts. This is partially my fault, and partially a sudden change in his personality. This might be some sort of younger brother effect, but as of a few days ago he literally throws a fit when he starts losing, I had a feeling it would come eventually the whole tears and stuff. But it is really just more raging than anything else, he doesn't cry as much as scream and kick a lot calling lies and what not. When I am trying to show his pill game and he can't seem to do a pill double jump pill move. After like 10 tries he just totally loses it, it is somewhat frustrating. I realize this may partially be my fault since he has definitely been losing a lot more lately with all this training and him being the younger one. He also gets really cocky when he starts winning. I do understand that many people do act this way and its not completely unnatural, but I will say he is growing into this habit. And I am really going to try and stop it before it becomes permanent. I refuse to let him pull that kind of crap in any sort of competitive environment(he was doing it during his party and I let it slide for today because of his birthday and all).

This is something I haven't tried yet, but I want some advice for what I want to teach next. I really want to teach them about spacing, I probably would've done this sooner. But I really only have about as well of a grasp as they do, I want to give my definition of it, and then see if you guys approve of it. It's important that I give them a clear definition of this because they main young link and Dr. Mario, and projectiles play a big part. So here is my basic definition of spacing.

"The idea that a character keeps himself out of opponents range and looks for a place to strike." This is a general idea I have of spacing, to use my fireballs(I main Mario btw), and wait for the opponent to slip up and then run in and attack. I really don't want to mess this lesson up, Christian main's young link and many have already said how important projectiles are. Adrian main's Doc and were working on his pill game XD But I would seriously appreciate some feedback on this, I won't say anything advanced or extreme to them. But I would definitely appreciate it if I for sure had a complete understanding of spacing. Since feeding them false information would be a horrible idea.

That about wraps it up for this post. See ya guys next time.
 

#HBC | Joker

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There are so many different definitions of what "spacing" is, and there's not really any one universally agreed upon definition. Yours is fine for the purposes of teaching them about approaching.

I'm glad to hear that Christian is making big strides. It's unfortunate that Adrian isn't doing the same, but it'll come with time.

As for the whole Melee or Brawl question, it's really up to them. The games have their obvious similarities and differences, so they just need to play them both a bit to decide which one to play. I only chose to get into Brawl because it's the newer game, and I know more ppl that play it as a result. Since it's just a matter of time until SSB4 comes out, who knows what the right answer is.
 
D

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I just remembered, the age minimum on smash brothers games were 10 and up. Technically, Christian and Adrian aren't supposed to play xD
But what Joker said is pretty much right. There is no universal way to say spacing, there's many different definitions.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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There are so many different definitions of what "spacing" is, and there's not really any one universally agreed upon definition. Yours is fine for the purposes of teaching them about approaching.

I'm glad to hear that Christian is making big strides. It's unfortunate that Adrian isn't doing the same, but it'll come with time.

As for the whole Melee or Brawl question, it's really up to them. The games have their obvious similarities and differences, so they just need to play them both a bit to decide which one to play. I only chose to get into Brawl because it's the newer game, and I know more ppl that play it as a result. Since it's just a matter of time until SSB4 comes out, who knows what the right answer is.
Really awesome thanks dude, glad to see the definition is at least decent, as for the brawl thing. They both decided that while they want to play brawl they will still get lessons from me(if you can call them lessons), so...while things are weirder were still playing melee XD


I just remembered, the age minimum on smash brothers games were 10 and up. Technically, Christian and Adrian aren't supposed to play xD
But what Joker said is pretty much right. There is no universal way to say spacing, there's many different definitions.
Seriously, didn't know there was an age limit on this. I doubt anybody is going to care though XD Technicalities are blasphemy
 
D

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If you want them to learn another game but keep their melee attributes, 64 might be an option. But there is the fact that playing brawl helps your spacing and mind games, seeing as how most matches are meant to be well thought out camping and spacing. If you want to teach the kids spacing, tell Adrian to try camping and keeping a fair distance against Christians TL.

And about forcing them what to play, if you want to say YOUR ONLY PLAYING MELEE THAT'S FINALS, then the kids will feel as if they're being taken away of something and only want to play brawl more. Something you might want to do to see their interests, is show them some videos. Videos of melee that they'd like, and videos of brawl that would be entertain-able, and see what their opinion is on the game-play. IF you want to do 64, show them Isai ****** hard.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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If you want them to learn another game but keep their melee attributes, 64 might be an option. But there is the fact that playing brawl helps your spacing and mind games, seeing as how most matches are meant to be well thought out camping and spacing. If you want to teach the kids spacing, tell Adrian to try camping and keeping a fair distance against Christians TL.

And about forcing them what to play, if you want to say YOUR ONLY PLAYING MELEE THAT'S FINALS, then the kids will feel as if they're being taken away of something and only want to play brawl more. Something you might want to do to see their interests, is show them some videos. Videos of melee that they'd like, and videos of brawl that would be entertain-able, and see what their opinion is on the game-play. IF you want to do 64, show them Isai ****** hard.
That's funny because Adrian has actually already watched some of Isai from apex 2012 and was like " This link is AMAZING" XD

What you say about trying to force them to play melee is completely correct though. I have shown them some combo videos of melee, and Adrian already watches a lot of random smash videos(whatever is in the related videos). I have to find some good brawl ones though, I know I have seen them. I just haven't tried looking for them in a while.

Also this is going to be bad on my part, but what is a TL. I think I know it, I just can't figure it out for the life of me.
 

#HBC | Joker

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TL? That'd probably be Toon Link. They replaced Young Link with the cartoon character Link from games like Wind Waker. He looks pretty dumb, but he's actually quite good.

If they've decided that they'd rather play Brawl than Melee, then who are their characters? Cuz TL is pretty different from YL, and Mario is balls in Brawl. If they try out lots of characters, I'm sure they'll find different ones they like.

Basics like spacing, mindgames, shorthopping, and edgeguarding will all translate between games just fine. However, stuff like Wavedashing, L-canceling, and Dash Dancing don't really exist in Brawl. It doesn't hurt to know how to play both games, but for kids their age, the less confusing the better. If you wanna teach them to play, perhaps you should consider picking up Brawl. It'll prolly affect you much less than it affects them. You really only need to actually play Melee to learn Melee specific junk like Wavedashing/L-canceling and whatnot. Learning to play Brawl can still help you play Melee, you just gotta be aware of the differences. As the oldest, I'm sure those differences are more apparant to you than to them.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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TL? That'd probably be Toon Link. They replaced Young Link with the cartoon character Link from games like Wind Waker. He looks pretty dumb, but he's actually quite good.

If they've decided that they'd rather play Brawl than Melee, then who are their characters? Cuz TL is pretty different from YL, and Mario is balls in Brawl. If they try out lots of characters, I'm sure they'll find different ones they like.

Basics like spacing, mindgames, shorthopping, and edgeguarding will all translate between games just fine. However, stuff like Wavedashing, L-canceling, and Dash Dancing don't really exist in Brawl. It doesn't hurt to know how to play both games, but for kids their age, the less confusing the better. If you wanna teach them to play, perhaps you should consider picking up Brawl. It'll prolly affect you much less than it affects them. You really only need to actually play Melee to learn Melee specific junk like Wavedashing/L-canceling and whatnot. Learning to play Brawl can still help you play Melee, you just gotta be aware of the differences. As the oldest, I'm sure those differences are more apparant to you than to them.
oh it was TOONLINK, sorry kinda went brain dead for a second. Yeah me and Adrian's main got shot out the window with Brawl, they haven't unlocked Toonlink yet. So right now there using Link and Ike when they fight. Yeah I adjusted pretty quickly, I use Kirby on that game, so seeing as how light he is I naturally kinda space already. Especially against Adrian, I always forget Ike's power of friendship XD
 

KrIsP!

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spacing has many definitons, the universal one would equate to you rpositioning in comparison to your opponents. There's that lucien video, teach them to think of their opponents range and to bounce in and out of it. there's more to it sinc espacing is pretty much your entire neutral game and your neutral game is important, don't worry so much about teaching them a definition of spacing just teach them about staying out of ranges/stage control/sweet and sour spots.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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spacing has many definitons, the universal one would equate to you rpositioning in comparison to your opponents. There's that lucien video, teach them to think of their opponents range and to bounce in and out of it. there's more to it sinc espacing is pretty much your entire neutral game and your neutral game is important, don't worry so much about teaching them a definition of spacing just teach them about staying out of ranges/stage control/sweet and sour spots.
That Lucien video was great, I didn't really know what you meant at first about neutral spacing. But I think I get it now, too be honest I really didn't know what to use the dash dance for. Glad I finally figured out why it is so important(I should have picked it up from videos but meh, least I know now)
 

Fuujin

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Double posting in ur threads.
This blog is boring and lame.
By the time these kids are actually competent and looking to seriously go into competitive play the next smash will be out and melee will completely be dead.

At least teach them a new game that they can actually have other people their age to play with other than a bunch of melee enthusiast who will all be 20 years their senior.

NHFT.
 

KoopaTroopa895

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This blog is boring and lame.
By the time these kids are actually competent and looking to seriously go into competitive play the next smash will be out game will completely be dead.

At least teach them a new game that they can actually have other people their age to play with other than a bunch of melee enthusiast who will all be 20 years their senior.

NHFT.
Maybe I don't know, but super smash bros 64 still has people there XD I am pretty sure people said the same thing about Brawl though, I think it is one of those things where certain groups move on and certain groups stay. Plus, it is not like I am going to force them to stick to melee. If they move on to Brawl or Super Smash Bros 4 then good for them, but either way this is a good experience for both me and them.
 

#HBC | Joker

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Dun listen to Fuujin, he's just mad cuz he mains Zelda :yeahboi:

Also, regular Link is bad too, he's even worse than Mario. Definately try to get TL unlocked for him. Ike isn't all that great, but he's a favorite of mine as well. At first glance he seems really OP cuz his strengths are so great. Upon closer examination into higher level play, you'll find that his weaknesses are pretty glaring. He's definately usable at a high level, but only really amazing players actually do well with him.
 

Spyro

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My little brother and sister play Melee with me, they are just getting basic tech stuff right now.

And yeah don't listen to Fuujin, Melee is getting a lot of new players and it will be here for years to come.

:phone:
 

odinNJ

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teaching melee is hard, and people get frustrated. I think you should let them play brawl and if they want to be good you should be there to help. but dont force anything.
 
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And your showing negativity towards melee's competetive group and span of life because? No one even asked anyways.
 
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