Teaching and Learning-I need help

[Budget Player Cadet_]

So I play with this friend of mine a lot (plays DDD and G&W). And he wants to become good, and wants me to teach him. Unfortunately, he gets completely ***** by me every time and has grown to resent playing against me. Even with automatic handicap going up a long way, he has trouble against my snake, metaknight, luigi, and even G&W. So he doesn't want to play with me that much; he only really wants to do teams against CPUs (no 3rd and 4th players around ). And he can **** the **** out of lvl9s. It's just that a lvl9 falco won't SHDL you to death or CG you, DDD won't infinite you, G&W won't Dthrow->Dsmash, and don't get me started on snake.

The issue is not just that he needs to learn. He has some basics down, but really needs practice on ATs, punishing, and above all shielding. He can't block to save his life, forget about airdodge, roll, spotdodge and PS. But how do I teach these things? The AT's are no problem. I can show him the DDD CG and he'll get it sooner or later. But I can't teach him how to punish all that well. I mean, I even try with toon link and the dair. How does he respond? He runs away and goes back to waddle dee camping. How 'bout a little punishment? This guy can't even shieldgrab effectively.
How can I teach him this if he doesn't like playing against me?

Also, on a related note, how do I teach myself spacing? I enjoy playing with marth, but I'm really bad at spacing.

 

[Mr.-0]

I teach my self spacing by going into training, setting the time to one quarter, than shorth hop fair continuely for an aproach, and then pulling back and stuff. Than I up the time until I got it right. A good example is like I'm done when I can land a fair like the one anther landed on ally in their first round ( even though it was blocked.

 

[Volts]

So I play with this friend of mine a lot (plays DDD and G&W). And he wants to become good, and wants me to teach him. Unfortunately, he gets completely ***** by me every time and has grown to resent playing against me. Even with automatic handicap going up a long way, he has trouble against my snake, metaknight, luigi, and even G&W. So he doesn't want to play with me that much; he only really wants to do teams against CPUs (no 3rd and 4th players around ). And he can **** the **** out of lvl9s. It's just that a lvl9 falco won't SHDL you to death or CG you, DDD won't infinite you, G&W won't Dthrow->Dsmash, and don't get me started on snake.

The issue is not just that he needs to learn. He has some basics down, but really needs practice on ATs, punishing, and above all shielding. He can't block to save his life, forget about airdodge, roll, spotdodge and PS. But how do I teach these things? The AT's are no problem. I can show him the DDD CG and he'll get it sooner or later. But I can't teach him how to punish all that well. I mean, I even try with toon link and the dair. How does he respond? He runs away and goes back to waddle dee camping. How 'bout a little punishment? This guy can't even shieldgrab effectively.
How can I teach him this if he doesn't like playing against me?

Also, on a related note, how do I teach myself spacing? I enjoy playing with marth, but I'm really bad at spacing.

Ok well the first part, he has to first want to get better and he needs to understand that he wont get better by just training against computers. The best thing I can suggest is using mimic training. Show him videos, or just demonstrate yourself, techniques and strategies with the character he wants to play and have him try to copy them.

The shielding issue he will have to work out for himself and just have to try to block more, not much you can really do.

About the spacing, the best thing is to try to imagine a circle around marth, kind of the sizes of his z shield, and then try attacking when people when they get in that range. It is really more of something you pick up while playing with marth.

 

[shadowrock]

I think its best if people learn naturally. Like eventually hell pick up what going on. If anything try to teach him spacing. Try fighting him with only shield grabbing with ddd and see what he does.

exactly when you approach with an f-air with marth kind of do a circle if your to close to the enemy

 

[Lythium]

I have to agree with what Volts said. Also, I know what it's like consistently playing against someone who's far better than you. Be a little accommodating for him, because it's incredibly frustrating for a new player. You don't want to turn him off Brawl completely. Maybe try playing a character that you don't normally use or want to get better with. Even playing on Random might help. Also, spacing with Marth only comes with practice. Good luck!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well, now he wants to learn Marth. Perfect.

 

[00000]

Well, now he wants to learn Marth. Perfect.

Go MK, and use nado as your only move.
He can a) learn to space well, b) learn to shield well or c) get *'d.
Basically, you take his problem and force down on his face like pie.

 

[Tien2500]

Tell him to stop being a little *****. The way you learn ANYTHING is by sucking and failing until you start to suck less. If he isn't willing to lose a ton of times to get better then he won't get good and should focus on something else.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Go MK, and use nado as your only move.
He can a) learn to space well, b) learn to shield well or c) get *'d.
Basically, you take his problem and force down on his face like pie.

This is a good idea. Wow. Thanks. :D

 

[hichez50]

Once he realizes how to become good this will all change. Patience is the key here.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

How will he become good if he isn't taught how?

Isn't that what the OP is asking? How does that work?

 

[SpongeBathBill]

I once read a post that suggested that to practise spacing, you can pick any given point on Hyrule Temple and practise hitting it with optimally precise spacing, over and over, with various moves, until you have it perfect every time. Then, pick another spot.

 

[Tennet]

I used to be like him failing at shielding, my friends kept telling me I gotta shield more and now I can't help but PS a lot of attacks... Make sure he has the basics down, it sounds like he isn't too familiar with them. Do that before ATs. Going back to basics can really help your game, I hear people tell people to work on basics allll the time...

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

1. Does he know the basics? Don't even bother trying to teach AT's until he can use all the moves. I've seen way too many players focus on learning glide tossing and boost smashing in Brawl or wavedashing and lcancelling in Melee, when they haven't even been able to consistently do tilts or don't realize that they can grab.

2. Not shielding isn't entirely bad. If you shield too much, it makes it easier for opponents to predict it and punish it. He must learn how to space his attacks properly, and evade, dodge, or shield to avoid getting hit (evading is usually the best option). If you want to practice spacing, remove your shield button from your controller settings. Now you have to learn how to space better if you don't want to get hit.

3. If he wants to get better, he'll have to realize that he can't do so by playing anyone worse than him, or by playing the computer. It sounds like he can't handle anything that I've been through trying to improve, and if he continues to be a crybaby he won't get anywhere. But don't worry.. Most people eventually learn that on their own if they are going to get any better. If you can't show him, eventually he'll find the motivation and the wakeup call to improve.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

"1. Does he know the basics? Don't even bother trying to teach AT's until he can use all the moves"

I cant stress this enough, this is probably the best place to start. Basic's are pretty much the foundation of learning the character. And from there you can grow into learning AT's. But I actually learned spacing, after learning the basics of my character. I always take about a good solid week or 2 and just do the basics. Not even worrying about AT's. From learning the basics, he should begin to understand more about spacing since the tools he works with will give him an idea about how to space his attacks.

Example; Since he uses G&W/DDD, he'll probably start to learn that both their Bair's are pretty good. Then he'll probably figure out how to spam them and space with them. Thats how i remember starting out and how i started thinking about secondaries as well.

 

[-LzR-]

Interesting, I used to have the exact same case.
How I did it was just play with crappy characters like Falcon and Ganon and he eventually got really good and now he is even with me.