Tap Jump on or off?

[CyberMario]

For Samus only:

Should Tap jump be on or off? I had it off from my years in Brawl when I mained Marth and Mario. But now that it's off, it's now very difficult to do UpB Out of Shield.

UpB out of shield is critical for Samus to get out of pressure. In the Melee boards, this technique is critical against Falco.
Needless to say, I get rekted by Falco.

So, is it better to leave it on or off?

 

[KingChaos]

I had it off for forever in vBrawl as I made it a habit to sidestep then up b instead of just up b out of shield. But now in project M I find it critical I get used to tap jump again. Due to the faster game pace I find it a lot harder to sidestep then up b and is oftentimes beneficial to just to up b Oos instead to guarantee you will get out of the pressure. Sidestepping first in this game can often lead to missing the up b due to how fast everything happens. At least that is how it has been so far for me. Just go to training mode and practice all your movements with samus' to get used to having tap jump on again. She needs that screw attack too much to not use it Oos imo. So either become comfortable with tap jump or always know you are hindering your own Samus from improving. I have a separate tag I use when playing characters other than samus where I don't need tap jump; so maybe you would want to do that as well.

 

[ph00tbag]

Tap Jump is really useful for Screw Attack oos. And I mean it's really, really useful.

That said, you can still easily do JC into Screw Attack if you claw, so tap jump is not required, by any stretch. Do what you feel comfortable with.

 

[Chevy]

I put jump on L for OoS stuff. Tap jump is too annoying.

 

[pizzacato]

I UpB oos pretty nicely without tap jump.

 

[CyberMario]

I turned on Tap Jump and I was able to escape pressure so much easier now. I think I'm gonna leave it on for a while. Thanks for your input guys. @ Chevy , can I have a link to see how you play? That idea sounds crazy... but crazy enough to work.

 

[Kaysick]

I have and always will have tap jump on. Always used it since 64 and I don't want to get rid of it.
I really don't want to realize what's better or worse without it, I interchangeably use X and up on control stick.

 

[Chevy]

I turned on Tap Jump and I was able to escape pressure so much easier now. I think I'm gonna leave it on for a while. Thanks for your input guys. @ Chevy , can I have a link to see how you play? That idea sounds crazy... but crazy enough to work.

http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/profile/pastBroadcasts

Here's my roommates twitch stream, we pretty much stream randomly, every couple of days or so. There's plenty of Samus footage there dude.

 

[KingChaos]

I take back everything I said. I love Chevy's idea. Its so crazy that it works lol! F tap jump. L+ up b OoS=Awesome sauce

 

[Chevy]

Also, jump on L makes it easier to do fast double jumps for platform missile canceling on Dreamland like stages.

 

[Kaysick]

Also, jump on L makes it easier to do fast double jumps for platform missile canceling on Dreamland like stages.

Are you still able to L cancel with this setup or do you have to use R?

 

[MonkUnit]

He would have to use R. You can only cancel with Shield. (Grab works as well because it uses Shield)

 

[Chevy]

That is correct. I use R for everything.

 

[Kaysick]

I need to force myself to start using the R button. R and Y are the only buttons I don't use.

 

[Chevy]

Then y for side-taunt! Switch beams!

 

[Kaysick]

Then y for side-taunt! Switch beams!

What should I do for R? Side taunt does seem like a good idea. Gives me an excuse to put my tag on all setups

 

[Chevy]

I'd just use one trigger for jump, one for shield. Choose whichever way you're more comfortable with, if you decide to dedicate one button to shield. It took me about a week to get used to, but I never used tap jump so it might be more difficult for you.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Y or X for side taunt = much easier footstools too.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I put jump on L for OoS stuff. Tap jump is too annoying.

Wow I just tried this (except I do everything with L so I put R on jump), and I'm never turning tap jump on ever again. OoS stuff becomes so easy and you don't have to bother with the annoying tap jump. This is an old post, but thanks Chevy.

 

[Litt]

Wow I just tried this (except I do everything with L so I put R on jump), and I'm never turning tap jump on ever again. OoS stuff becomes so easy and you don't have to bother with the annoying tap jump. This is an old post, but thanks Chevy.

No offense, but this is extremely dumb and limiting, you will have a much harder time doing; upsmash and up B OoS

 

[Chevy]

No offense, but this is extremely dumb and limiting, you will have a much harder time doing; upsmash and up B OoS

It's not really that much harder, and it helps with retreating aerials without clawing. Though I actually just switched back to tap jump so that I could have a spingless trigger dedicated to power shielding.

 

[Narpas_sword]

I find this limiting. you will have a much harder time doing; upsmash and up B OoS

I constantly find myself short my double with tap jump on. Sometimes I see where I lose it, other times it's just gone.

Would much rather have other buttons set to jump to do it.

With R as jump I can up b oos and usmash oos fairly easily. It's just getting used to timing, not much different to learning a wd.

 

[Litt]

I constantly find myself short my double with tap jump on. Sometimes I see where I lose it, other times it's just gone.

Would much rather have other buttons set to jump to do it.

With R as jump I can up b oos and usmash oos fairly easily. It's just getting used to timing, not much different to learning a wd.

Have you played any good players that have effectively pressured your shield for you to have to up B out of it, or are you just using it whenever being pressured and are not having that hard of a time pulling it off?

 

[Narpas_sword]

Nah, I only play lv 1 CPU. Even they shine combo me to death sometimes.

Up b oos with r as jump is the same input but you slot R into the up b between up and b.

 

[Litt]

yeah you have to press R first to jump then up b in the jump squat frames... you despite your thoroughly enjoyed sarcasm... you are still wrong

 

[Narpas_sword]

yea, so, pretty much all at the same time, with about 20 min muscle memory training it's as easy as wavedashing.

im sure there were posts like yours claiming that wd too hard when WDing was discovered too.

 

[Litt]

yeah except you are an idiot... when you take up the L button then its harder to WD OoS, when you take out R, L canceling and Wding is affected, unless you wavedash, shield, and L cancel all with L, but even still, just jamming up on the control stick helps get a better feel during shield pressure and you can up b on the first frame possible instead of adjusting to a different timing. But hell you do you, and I hope it works for you, I will do me, which also is how other good top players orient their controllers. Also lolol at you thinking you switching jumping OoS to R is as difficult of a concept to conceptualize as wavedashing... sir you are either just the biggest troll or the stupidest players I have had the misfortune to interact with on these boards, with the exception of fortress.

 

[ph00tbag]

Some people wavedash and shield with one button in Melee. Some of those people are really quite good at the game. ****, I think I remember HugS or someone like that saying that's how they wavedash out of shield, and that it's not hard.

KLit, you're doing it again. You're assuming that, because you don't understand someone else's perspective, that their perspective must be wrong. With enough practice, Narpas's method can work, it just requires relearning muscle memory. It's no better or worse than tap jump on. Get off your high horse. You are not the be all and end all.

 

[Litt]

Some people wavedash and shield with one button in Melee. Some of those people are really quite good at the game. ****, I think I remember HugS or someone like that saying that's how they wavedash out of shield, and that it's not hard.

KLit, you're doing it again. You're assuming that, because you don't understand someone else's perspective, that their perspective must be wrong. With enough practice, Narpas's method can work, it just requires relearning muscle memory. It's no better or worse than tap jump on. Get off your high horse. You are not the be all and end all.

Oh no phoot, you misunderstand me, I am being that way again, because I just flat out don't like Narpas after the number of his posts were just trolling and or harassing me there for a while. As for the other perspective, you can orient you controller any which way, and still be the best player in the world, but I was telling him, he is especially stupid, because of the way he oriented his own, he is putting 3x more effort in than is necessary, and there is a reason the top players in the world shield with L, WD and L cancel with R, and leave tap jump on, because he doesnt understand or listen, he has to put that much more practice in, and compensate that much more because of it.

A better example of this, there is a proper way to hold a golf club, which is taught at a very young age, so an individual does not get accustomed to holding it improperly which will cause; hand, elbow and shoulder injuries, poor strokes, and make their play less consistent. Just like all other competitive spots, this esport too has a more efficient means of orienting controllers as well as holding them, and should he choose to be ignorant and orient/hold his golf club the way he wants, by all means, mess up your game and possible hurt your hand, I gave fair warning.

 

[Narpas_sword]

because golf has never seen a long ongoing debate about traditional putter length vs the new long putter or anything. eh muppet?

 

[ph00tbag]

KLit, Narpas trolls you because you make it so damn easy. You practically bait yourself on a regular basis.

It doesn't help that you're pulling statistics out of your ass to win an argument that is by no means as cut and dry as you say. Plenty of high level players claw for certain inputs, to varying degrees. Javi, for instance, uses the controller like a fight stick for everything but grabs. M2K and Hax claw for SHDL. These kinds of things are necessitated by inconsistencies in Melee's controller layout. Using a shoulder button for jump actually reduces travel time for these kinds of things and allows the player to keep a consistent hand position for a lot of tech without having to go the fight stick route (although I would argue Z is superior, as it has no spring in it). With Tap Jump off, I can't think of a reason it's especially harder to perform JC tech out of shield.

 

[Litt]

Phoot i dont understand why you think you are right, but its amusing never the less. First lets talk about your idiotic claim that Z is superior.... first, you wouldn't be able to... grab anymore... zair.... and lets not even forget the mechanic of the z button itself... which is a flimsy piece of metal that presses the button, which does not produce consistent frame perfect results, so you are claiming that a non-insta press button is superior... OKKKK :/, lets also not forget that the triggers vary by controller: sensitivity, older springs, newer vs older gamecube controller models have slight differences... all of which scream INCONSISTENT FOR A 4 FRAME JUMP SQUAT ANIMATION JUMP CANCEL... Really, ph00t, you normally are smarter than this, no insults for you this time, but i am dissapointed in you. Also no top samus players out there claw... I know this personally lol

Lastly... "Using a shoulder button for jump actually reduces travel time for these kinds of things and allows the player to keep a consistent hand position for a lot of tech without having to go the fight stick route"
Ummmm sir we are talking about Up Bing out of Shield not SHDL... you press Up and then B with tap jump on... instead of press a shoulder button, then up and B... you are creating wasted movement, and unless the spring are out of the shoulder.... inconsistent results.....

 

[Chevy]

I played with no tap jump, L as jump with no spring for awhile. I could consistently Up-B and Up-smash out of shield. I decided to revert that trigger for powershielding, but I've been having a harder time getting used to tap jump and doing OoS stuff with it. Point being, it doesn't make that much of a difference if you learn the timing, though an optimal control scheme probably should keep tap jump on.

 

[Litt]

I played with no tap jump, L as jump with no spring for awhile. I could consistently Up-B and Up-smash out of shield. I decided to revert that trigger for powershielding, but I've been having a harder time getting used to tap jump and doing OoS stuff with it. Point being, it doesn't make that much of a difference if you learn the timing, though an optimal control scheme probably should keep tap jump on.

Chevy, you just said it yourself, L as jump with no spring, that is fine, because is creates an insta press button and produces consistent results... however in melee light shielding is present in the game and has uses, so to take the spring out of your controller's shoulder buttons could have negative affects on your game. And the reason you have trouble with the UP B using the analog stick is.... the once frame built in lag to the game because it uses brawls game engine.... :'(

*a way to compensate for that though, is to buffer jump with the c stick to up b OoS*

 

[Chevy]

I think it's safe to say that anyone who changes their controls most likely doesn't play Melee anyway. I do keep a spring in my right trigger for light press L-cancels and wavedash OoS though. And having default controls means it'll be easier to get into Melee if I so choose.

And the reason you have trouble with the UP B using the analog stick is.... the once frame built in lag to the game because it uses brawls game engine.... :'(*a way to compensate for that though, is to buffer jump with the c stick to up b OoS*

Actually, it's not just built in lag. It's a one frame delay on all momentum changes. Since you can Up-B and Up-Smash out of jump squat, this has no bearing on that. This doesn't change the timing on much, just the effect very slightly. You can input the exact same wave-dash command string in Melee and PM, but in PM you will move one frame later, you are still considered air-born at the same time in both games.

 

[Litt]

I think it's safe to say that anyone who changes their controls most likely doesn't play Melee anyway. I do keep a spring in my right trigger for light press L-cancels and wavedash OoS though. And having default controls means it'll be easier to get into Melee if I so choose.

Once again... if you remove the springs you eliminate other options... example of this would be you wouldn't be able to shai drop at all without the springs in your controller.... im guessing 99% of you don't know what a shai drop is, so look it up and then respond instead of just asking what it is. (Yes its a very technical mech to do, but so is shield dropping, and each has their own uses)

 

[Chevy]

Like I said, I keep a spring in my right trigger. Did you read my post? It's fairly evident that you should have a spring trigger, even without advanced platform dropping techniques.

 

[Litt]

Glad we established that, so spring in trigger = good, use for originally intended purpose = good, are there other controller configs that are just as effective? perhaps, but they do take away other aspects of the game or make play slightly less consistent

 

[Chevy]

One spring out for powershielding and easier wavedash OoS, one spring in for everything else. I have decided to just get used to tap jump, because I do think that the default control scheme is just about optimal. If someone is more comfortable otherwise, it doesn't matter. They will figure out which control scheme they want to ultimately use.

 

[Litt]

My main thing here is I just legitimately hate Narpas, because of his incisiveness trolling towards myself, so anything he says I will try my best to prove wrong and shut him down, idgaf what controls any other player uses, I just wanted to make him feel bad by proving his method inferior.