TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

Hollywoodrok12

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
1,016
If anything, today has been a benefit! Travis' deconfirmation via Mii Costume lowers the likelihood of 3rd Party Promotional characters. This in turn hurts Monster Hunter, which is probably Phoenix's biggest competition at this point!
How would Travis have been promotional? Travis Strikes again was a while back and we're a ways off from NMH3
 

Handy Man

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
809
Location
SoCal
I want to get into the Ace Attorney series. Where do I begin?
I would play the main series games in chronological order. Absolutely start with the original Ace Attorney Trilogy, since it’s on modern systems and is where the story begins. Play Apollo Justice afterwards, then Dual Destinies, then Spirit of Justice.

Alternatively, after you complete the original trilogy, you can play Investigations 1 and 2. These games star Phoenix Wright’s rival Miles Edgeworth, and take place between Trials and Tribulations (third game in original trilogy) and Apollo Justice. They are completely optional and don’t add anything to the main Ace Attorney story, but Investigations 2 specifically is one of the best games in the series.

There is also Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney, as well as Dai Gyakuten Saiban 1 and 2. These ganes are all completely optional and can be played at any point. It’s worth noting that the fan translation for Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2 is currently not done yet. These games are great as well, but I would focus on the main series and Investigation games first. Treat these as deserts if you want more.

So basically, this is what I recommend:

• Start with Ace Attorney Trilogy and pmay the first three games in order.
• Afterwards, either continue the story with Apollo Justice, or take a break and enjoy Investigations 1 and 2 before playing Apollo Justice.
• After Apollo Justice, play through Dual Destinies, then Spirit of Justice. Spirit of Justice is the most recent main series game so far.
• If you are itching for more, try the Layton crossover or Dai Gyakuten Saiban games.
 

Krankees

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
791
If anything, today has been a benefit! Travis' deconfirmation via Mii Costume lowers the likelihood of 3rd Party Promotional characters. This in turn hurts Monster Hunter, which is probably Phoenix's biggest competition at this point!
Glad you could see it that way I guess. I'm frustrated cause Travis seemed like a cool pick.
 
Last edited:

TheAnvil

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,438
If we do in fact see Ryu Hayabusa I think it would bode very well for Phoenix. I just can't imagine Dante and Ryu being in the same pass.

I feel good about Phoenix's chances right now
 

Dukemon102

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
571
Switch FC
SW-8185-5597-2987
Dante's moveset potential is also ridiculous. If the Smash team wants to make him not a swordman, they can totally do it. But yeah, both Ryu and Dante are the Hack'n Slash Action based character, and we technically only have one right now (And the prospect of playable Dante terrifies me).

But..... visual novel has zero playable reps right now. And no other character can fight like an Ace Attorney character would. You can make playable parallels between Ryu and Dante to already playable characters like :ultsheik: and :ultbayonetta1:. But you can't say Phoenix would play similar to any other character outside of his series.
 

Michael the Spikester

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
17,731
Location
Canada
Switch FC
SW-0818-8347-0203

MattX20

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
4,603

Ace C.R.O.S.S.

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 4, 2018
Messages
703
Location
Japanifornia
I really, really hope it's him...
I still remember when i voted for him in the Smash Ballot, even though i knew he was kinda unlikely i still voted for him.
Now that he really has a chance after such a longtime makes me feel like that vote maybe was important...
 

ThunderSageNun

Nugatory
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
2,212
I don't think billys opinion alongside some arbritrary number are worth much for any newcomers chance, the guy is just a speculator and not really someone that ever had insider info to at least take his word with more importance than your average RTC post right?
Phoenix is definitely a top contender as far as Capcom reps go, it's either him or Dante.
Yeah, if we consider RE out after its spirit event and MH not getting a rep due to (supposedly) the devs not finding the hunter itself to be a good way to represent the franchise, I'd say Ace Attorney or Devil May Cry are next in Capcoms properties with some degree of historical importance (although I might be underrating something like Ghost n Goblins in saying that, and I'm ignoring crossover games for obvious reasons). Regardless of the inner competition on who could be Capcoms next rep if they get someone, I'll repeat I'll be surprised if Ace Attorney ends up with absolutely no representation by the end of Ultimates lifecycle. I know it's not the biggest franchise out there, but with how loyal it's been to Nintendo handhelds up until this point and how iconic it's grown despite the niche status of visual novels/point and click games, it'd be a waste to at least not give Nick a spirit at the end of the day (not to say that's my preferred way to see him in the game of course). Sure, it's been a while since AA6, but if Mystical Ninja Goemon can get something despite all those years of inactivity and Travis a mii costume despite NMH being among the most niche of niche things in the market, then I don't really understand why they'd wholly ignore Ace Attorney for non legal (ha) reasons.
 
Last edited:

Theenderdefender

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
28
Phoenix Wright's chances of getting in as a fighter

+Games have all been Nintendo Handheld exclusives since 2001
+The Trilogy being released on switch
+Genre of gaming not yet represented in smash
+Incredible moveset potential
-Not a lot of people recognize him (as far as my experience is concerned)

Overall chances: 9/10.

Personal note: Phoenix is my number 1 most wanted smash character
 

spicynun

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 7, 2020
Messages
23
I think the biggest thing Phoenix has over Dante is the history with Nintendo. Not sure if that matters as much anymore with inclusions like Joker though. Another thing that might hurt Dante is it seems like Nintendo is pretty weird about adding rated M character reps. We only have three in the game so far (Snake, Bayonetta, Joker) out of the 77 characters. A lot of popular M rated series have become mii costumes like No More Heroes, Assassin's Creed, and Fallout. Resident Evil only had a spirit event. It's still hard to tell at this point. I would be ecstatic at either Phoenix or Dante's inclusion.
 
Last edited:

Dukemon102

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
571
Switch FC
SW-8185-5597-2987
-Not a lot of people recognize him (as far as my experience is concerned)
Oh. He defintely is far more known among gamers than many other 3rd parties already in the game like :ultjoker: , :ult_terry: , :ultbayonetta: , :ultbanjokazooie: (No disrespect, but things are as they are)
The Objection!! Phrase is already iconic enough that many people that don't even play games recognize it. That and Ace Attorney has an anime, a live-action movie, manga, concerts and more things in Japan.
This franchise is not very profitable in the west because of the sheer amount of text to translate. But popular? It is popular without a doubt.
 

rychu_supadude

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
140
Location
Adelaide, Australia
I think the biggest thing Phoenix has over Dante is the history with Nintendo. Not sure if that matters as much anymore with inclusions like Joker though. Another thing that might hurt Dante is it seems like Nintendo is pretty weird about adding rated M character reps. We only have three in the game so far (Snake, Bayonetta, Joker) out of the 77 characters. A lot of popular M rated series have become mii costumes like No More Heroes, Assassin's Creed, and Fallout. Resident Evil only had a spirit event. It's still hard to tell at this point. I would be ecstatic at either Phoenix or Dante's inclusion.
History with Nintendo isn't irrelevant, but I doubt it's the primary factor or else Hershel Layton would already be in by now. Dante's popularity is more than big enough for him to be on at least level pegging with Phoenix in Nintendo's considerations, despite the relative recency of his Nintendo history.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
GRimer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
35,312
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
History with Nintendo helps, but not as much as people seem to think it does.
 

TheAnvil

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,438
I think people really over rate Dante's chances of hitting Smash as a fighter, personally. I think they also under rate the chances of characters like Arthur.

It doesn't matter what angle I look at why a Capcom character would be chosen, Dante is not the frontrunner.

There are more popular characters (Phoenix, Leon, Jill)
More iconic franchises (RE/Monster Hunter)
Retro (Arthur, Haggar)
Iconic to Capcom (Morrigan, Chris, Chun Li)
Relevant to Nintendo (AA, MH, RE, Okami etc)
Promotional (Monster Hunter, Resident Evil etc)

His popularity with Smash fans only really came in during the first DLC pack. Dante's possible, but unlikely (I say this as a fan of Dante).

careful or youll jynx it and well end up with dino crisis
I would consider Regina in Smash an absolute blessed timeline.
 
Last edited:

SNEKeater

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
1,732
I think people really over rate Dante's chances of hitting Smash as a fighter, personally. I think they also under rate the chances of characters like Arthur.

It doesn't matter what angle I look at why a Capcom character would be chosen, Dante is not the frontrunner.

There are more popular characters (Phoenix, Leon, Jill)
More iconic franchises (RE/Monster Hunter)
Retro (Arthur, Haggar)
Iconic to Capcom (Morrigan, Chris, Chun Li)
Relevant to Nintendo (AA, MH, RE, Okami etc)
Promotional (Monster Hunter, Resident Evil etc)

His popularity with Smash fans only really came in during the first DLC pack. Dante's possible, but unlikely (I say this as a fan of Dante).



I would consider Regina in Smash an absolute blessed timeline.
While I agree with some of these, I disagree with other ones.
I wouldn't put Phoenix, Leon or Jill as more popular character than Dante. In Smash context? I could agree with Phoenix, but clearly RE characters aren't more popular than Dante. Before the RE spirit event I saw very few mentions of Resident Evil for Smash on Twitter. Most of the talks about RE seemed to happen at forums like Smashboards.
Outside of Smash? Dante seems clearly more popular to me. Not that the others aren't popular, but among these 4 Dante seems to have more star power in my eyes.

As for RE and MH being more iconic franchises, I don't think the use of iconic makes a lot of sense here. If you said bigger or more popular, in the sense of selling more and having a bigger audience, then yes. Monster Hunter being more iconic than DMC... I don't see it, honestly. I think you're dowplaying DMC history and influence here, to be honest.

Iconic to Capcom, I agree but at the same time, I don't know? I guess it depends on the person, but when I think about Capcom Dante clearly comes before Chris, for example. Chris comes from a bigger franchise, but if you put their default designs and show them to people that have never played RE/DMC/Marvel vs Capcom games, I'm pretty, pretty sure they would recognize Dante more. Probably the same with Morrigan, at least with people who isn't into fighting games.

Relevant to Nintendo, there's no discussion here. But Okami? Okami appeared on the Wii, Switch, and then there's Okamiden in the Nintendo DS. So far we have 3 DMC games on the Switch. So I don't see how Okami could be more relevant to Nintendo. Has more history? Obviously yes because DMC never appeared on Nintendo consoles until recently, but it's not like Okami was fairly pushed by Nintendo like they did with Ace Attorney or like they're doing with Monster Hunter, which in that case I could see them going for Okami first. I love Amaterasu and her game but I'm like 99% sure that between Dante and Amaterasu Nintendo would choose Dante.
Unfortunately I don't think Amaterasu is likely at all, she's more of a pipe dream in my eyes.

Promotional, I'm guessing you're mentioning RE because of RE8, but it's not like it's releasing on Switch. If that doesn't matter then we should also include DMC5 here, which is still a very recent game, or it's upcoming Special Edition, which releases literally in one month. Plus it's pretty likely they will port DMC4 to the Switch, I think. Maybe DmC too.
 

ThunderSageNun

Nugatory
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
2,212
There are more popular characters (Phoenix)
Iconic to Capcom (Morrigan)
Relevant to Nintendo (Okami)
You'll have to explain these ones to me
-If we talk about more popular for Smash inclusion, I agree, but on the spectrum of popularity as a whole, it gets more debatable, as DMC is a more succesful franchise than AA and DMC5 was a recent title and considerable success, becoming the best selling entry of that franchise.
-The only point where I'd consider Morrigan more iconic was when Dante didn't even exist.
-I dunno how relevant I'd call Okami to Nintendo, the game everyone remembers debuted on PS2 first and that's generally remembered more fondly than the Wii port it got a few years later, with the HD version being available just about everywhere else and hitting the Switch last iirc (and entirely skipping the WiiU before anyone asks). And nobody seems to care for Okamiden despite being exclusive to the DS. Not to say I think Dante is more relevant at all in this category, but I'd definitely not consider Okami a frontrunner of it either.
I don't wanna comment much further as this isn't the Dante thread and I agree he's not a lock with hurdles to cross should he happen, but those 3 points did leave me a bit perplexed. Like, I can see what you mean with people exaggerating on Dantes chances, but not necessarily for all the reasons you used against him.
 
Last edited:

KirbyMonadoBoy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
278
Location
Austria
NNID
felix7
In terms of uniqueness, genre representation and connection with Nintendo, Phoenix Wright really is the ideal candidate. Furthermore Nintendo likes to go for the meme picks with this DLC cycle (Sans, Steve, etc...) and Phoenix would fit perfectly with his recognizable and iconic "Objection" catchphrase. It's crazy that he still isn't represented at all in any Smash Bros. game - no trophy, no sticker, no spirit, no assist trophy, no music (so many bangers!!), no mii costume, no nothing. He could bring so much new to the table and I'm confident that Sakurai and Nintendo might think the same. #believe
 

TheAnvil

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,438
You'll have to explain these ones to me
-If we talk about more popular for Smash inclusion, I agree, but on the spectrum of popularity as a whole, it gets more debatable, as DMC is a more succesful franchise than AA and DMC5 was a recent title and considerable success, becoming the best selling entry of that franchise.
-The only point where I'd consider Morrigan more iconic was when Dante didn't even exist.
-I dunno how relevant I'd call Okami to Nintendo, the game everyone remembers debuted on PS2 first and that's generally remembered more fondly than the Wii port it got a few years later, with the HD version being available just about everywhere else and hitting the Switch last iirc (and entirely skipping the WiiU before anyone asks). And nobody seems to care for Okamiden despite being exclusive to the DS. Not to say I think Dante is more relevant at all in this category, but I'd definitely not consider Okami a frontrunner of it either.
I don't wanna comment much further as this isn't the Dante thread and I agree he's not a lock with hurdles to cross should he happen, but those 3 points did leave me a bit perplexed. Like, I can see what you mean with people exaggerating on Dantes chances, but not necessarily for all the reasons you used against him.
I mean you can probably nitpick some of my examples but the point still stands. Okami may not be as close to Nintendo as the likes of Mega Man or Ace Attorney, but an exclusive DS game certainly brings it closer to the couple 20 year later ports DMC has. Hell Okami on the Wii was a pretty big deal at the time.

Morrigan is very self explanatory, she's one of the most crucial Capcom characters. DMC may be way bigger than Darkstalkers, but Morrigan as a character has far transcended that. She's basically Mrs Capcom, they use her in their crossovers more than Dante, more than Mega Man. Basically only behind Ryu and Chun Li.
 
Last edited:

Mushroomguy12

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
3,099
Morrigan is like the Captain Falcon of Capcom VS titles, even if her series isn't doing the hottest, the character herself is basically a mainstay of the Capcom crossover, a massively popular staple icon that has appeared in pretty much every significant eligible title and will always be one of the top characters associated with the brand.
 
Last edited:

TheAnvil

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,438
Morrigan is like the Captain Falcon of Capcom VS titles, even if her series isn't doing the hottest, the character herself is basically a mainstay of the Capcom crossover, a massively popular staple icon that has appeared in pretty much every significant eligible title and will always be one of the top characters associated with the brand.
I can kinda see the correlation between Morrigan and Falcon, but I don't think Falcon is as important to Nintendo as Morrigan is to Capcom. If Smash was cutting its teeth now I don't think Falcon would make the cut. Whereas it's impossible to imagine a new vs Capcom game (or any other Capcom crossover) not putting Morrigan there front and centre behind Ryu. Hell, look at the company she's with on the Teppen app logo.

Screenshot 2020-10-12 at 18.55.00.png
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
3,099
I can kinda see the correlation between Morrigan and Falcon, but I don't think Falcon is as important to Nintendo as Morrigan is to Capcom. If Smash was cutting its teeth now I don't think Falcon would make the cut. Whereas it's impossible to imagine a new vs Capcom game (or any other Capcom crossover) not putting Morrigan there front and centre behind Ryu. Hell, look at the company she's with on the Teppen app logo.

View attachment 289077
Yeah, I do think Morrigan is more important to Capcom than Captain Falcon is to Nintendo, but I don't think Nintendo would ever cut Captain Falcon from a Smash game, even if he's not front and center like Morrigan, the outrage would be too intense. Even among the original 12 I can sooner see them cutting Ness or Jigglypuff than Falcon.
 
Last edited:

spicynun

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 7, 2020
Messages
23
As someone who is a fan of both Dante and Phoenix, I agree people are overestimating Dante's chances. I've seen most prediction lists include him when I don't even think there has been any rumors or leaks surrounding him besides maybe that voice actor tweet awhile back. I'm not saying Phoenix is more likely than Dante, but I do think there has been an overestimation of Dante's chances maybe due to the huge increase of demand for him. I've see so many comments that Dante is a lock if there is a Capcom rep, but I really think Phoenix has a chance at competing with him. Best timeline is we just get both, but I doubt that will happen.
 

TheAnvil

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,438
Yeah, I do think Morrigan is more important to Capcom than Captain Falcon is to Nintendo, but I don't think Nintendo would ever cut Captain Falcon from a Smash game, even if he's not front and center like Morrigan, the outrage would be too intense. Even among the original 12 I can sooner see them cutting Ness or Jigglypuff than Falcon.
I'm moreso talking about the hypothetical scenario where there was no Smash and we got the first one with Ultimate.
 

MattX20

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
4,603
In all honesty, I'd prefer Phoenix because of familiarity with his series over Dante, but I wouldn't be opposed to the latter
 

Northadox

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
91
Pretty much the same reason here for wanting Phoenix. I've heard good things about DMC (and I'd like to get into that series someday), but Phoenix just screams more of a "Smash" character to me, especially considering the franchise's affiliation with Nintendo and its more wacky premise. Like an honorary Nintendo character, like Banjo is (although not to such a degree). Dante may have more sales to his name but I've always gotten the impression that Ace Attorney is more "culturally significant", if you will. Scream "objection!" and someone's ought to recognize it, if only vaguely.

Random plug here but I'm going to need you to vote for Horace Knightley on this Ace Attorney related poll. No context on where it's from but it's very important that you do.
 

Theenderdefender

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
28
Ace Attorney Spirits!

-Larry Butz: A novice Primary Attack Spirit
Represented by Lucas in the Claus Skin on the Courtroom stage
Song: "When Something Smells 2016"
He would taunt a lot and the Vince assist trophy would appear (referencing the fact that he's an artist)
He would give you increased speed

-Detective Gumshoe: A novice Support Spirit
Represented by Green Donkey Kong on New Donk City
Song: "I Can Do It When it Counts, Pal!"
Donkey Kong would have heavy super armor
He gives you a lower jump height

-Winston Payne: A novice Support Spirit
Represented by green camo Snake on the Courtroom
Song: "Pursuit ~Cornered~"
The enemy will avoid combat in this timed stamina battle

-Pearl Fey: An advanced Primary Defense Spirit
represented by Spiky Pichu on Onett
Song: "Kurain Village"
The Enemy's basic attacks will have increased power
Gives you more HP in Stamina

-Godot: An advanced Support Spirit
Represented by Green R.O.B on the Courtroom
Song: "Pressing Pursuit ~ Caught"
The enemy favors their neutral special, which has increased power. The enemy will also become metal at high percentage
Grants you improved stats after eating

-Klavier Gavin: An advanced Primary Grab Spirit
Represented by Cloud on the Courtroom
Song: "Pressing Pursuit ~ Cornered"
The enemy can deal powerful crits at random and Meloetta will appear from pokeballs

-Lotta Hart: An advanced Support Spirit
Represented by Green Daisy on Great Bay
Song: "Testimony ~Allegro 2001"
The Yuri assist trophy will appear
Grants you better air speed

-Franziska Von Karma: An advanced Support Spirit
Represented by Zero Suit Samus on the Courtroom
Song: "Phoenix Wright ~ Objection! 2002"
The enemy favors their side special which has increased power
Increases weapon attack power

-Mia Fey: An ace Primary Neutral Spirit
Represented by Bayonetta on the Courtroom, with Phoenix as support
Song: "Pursuit ~ Keep Pressing On"
You must defeat both of the enemies to win, and Phoenix will suddenly get his final smash
Chance at a Second Final Smash

-The Judge: An ace support spirit
Represented by a giant grey Game and Watch on the Courtroom, being supported by 2 Phoenix Wrights' (One of them in the edgeworth colors)
Song: "Pursuit ~Cornered~"
You must beat the Game and Watch to win. The Phoenix's will favor special attacks and Game and Watch will favor both his down smash and side special
Slow Super Armor

-Manfred Von Karma: an ace Primary Attack spirit
Represented by Grey Haired Ganondorf on the courtroom
Song: "Announce the Truth"
He will have increased attack power as well as super armor
Unflinching Smash Attacks

-Miles Edgeworth: Legendary Primary Attack spirit
Represented by Phoenix in his red suit alt on the courtroom
Song: "Pursuit ~Cornered~"
The enemy will suddenly have a powered up final smash, which they can use twice in a row in this Stamina Battle
Special Moves powered up

-Maya Fey: Legendary Support Spirit
Represented by Isabelle on Tomodachi Life, supported by Phoenix
Song: "The Steel Samurai"
The enemy has all her stats increased and Phoenix will suddenly have a powered up final smash
Super Shield (Your shield will not shrink naturally, and takes reduced damage)
 

Bobthealligator

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
239
Just to point out that no DLC has come with 2 Legendary Spirits or had any primary Legendary Spirits.
I kind of see Maya as an advanced because she's important to the series but otherwise useless.
 

ThunderSageNun

Nugatory
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
2,212
Yeah, at this point I doubt any DLC will break the one legendary per pack deal, sorta reminds me on booster packs in Pokemon. And since Phoenix would be our playable rep, I have a hard time believing anyone other than Edgeworth could our legendary spirit.
 

JustMyself13

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
349
On the Nintendo 3DS E-Shop, Phoenix is the face of the RPG section, which includes all applicable Pokémon and Zelda games. I just thought that was interesting.
 

MattX20

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
4,603
Just a thought regarding Phoenix's alts: would they be evenly divided to his original trilogy look and second trilogy look with 3 alts each or do you think it'll be like Steve and two other alts are added in?
 

Theenderdefender

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
28
Just a thought regarding Phoenix's alts: would they be evenly divided to his original trilogy look and second trilogy look with 3 alts each or do you think it'll be like Steve and two other alts are added in?
I think it would just be recolors of his more modern appearance. The only costumes I can see are a pink sweater alt and a retired alt
 
Top Bottom