Take another look at Ganon.

[Rampage]

Wow...Ganon is so good. I **** with ganon

 

[Ulevo]

While of course you could just stay off the ground with Jiggs, that still doesn't detract from the fact that her Ground game is terrible. While her edgeguarding game is good, you do have to realize comparitvely many other characters have the same if not better edgeguarding capabilites (MK, ROB,DDD, Lucario,Marth,Kirby) and not at the expense of being super light and having a piss poor ground game. Rollout shouldn't really even be mentioned because it is so **** easy to see coming and either Spotdodge or Shieldgrab. While she has good priority on a couple of moves, her priority overall and pretty bad. Plus, the fact that she'll have to be in the air a lot means she'll be just those few inches close to flying off the screen when hit. I do agree with Rapid_Assassib here, Jiggs is looking to be one of the Bottom Tier characters in Brawl, and Tournament Results aren't lying to us right now.

Why is it relevant that her ground game is worse again? Like I said, you should rarely be tied to the ground unless you know you can follow up with a Boost Smash, Roll Out, Jab or UTilt.

Also, Jiggs has superior aerial chase over any of those characters barring maybe Marth, Meta Knight and ROB. ROB flies, and Marth has much better reach and knockback. Meta Knight both flies and has better priority and knock back. The others are hampered by not having those assets to compensate for there aerial influence that doesn't match Jiggs.

Roll Out is predictable in theory, but it is different when mixed in with the particular stage at hand and good edge guard tactics. If it hits you, you're likely losing a stock, and a good Jiggs can work this into there game.

 

[Grunt]

Wow...Ganon is so good. I **** with ganon

tru that BROTHER!

....*Takes another look at Ganon*
He looks the same.

 

[Zoro]

stfu nubs

ganon is ****

 

[Blistering Speed]

Ganon is the top of low, over samus, link, captain falcon and jiggs I think atm.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Why is it relevant that her ground game is worse again? Like I said, you should rarely be tied to the ground unless you know you can follow up with a Boost Smash, Roll Out, Jab or UTilt.

Also, Jiggs has superior aerial chase over any of those characters barring maybe Marth and ROB. ROB flies, and Marth has much better reach and knockback. The others are hampered by not having those assets to compensate for there aerial influence that doesn't match Jiggs.

Roll Out is predictable in theory, but it is different when mixed in with the particular stage at hand and good edge guard tactics. If it hits you, you're likely losing a stock, and a good Jiggs can work this into there game.

Because it shows that she's predictable, she'll always have to be in the air to be an effective character, characters like Metaknight are great on Land or in the air and are harder to stop overall

I seriously doubt Jiggs outclasses Metaknight either, espiacially when Meta has disjoints and range on his aerials because of Galaxia, and how retardedly powerful Dair can be in terms of priority is knockback. And even what you say about Rollout is true, there is one piece of copypasta I would like to have you read.



Sure, all of can debate and discuss a character's strengths and weaknesses here, but what truly matters is that what happens when it's actually applied in a tournament setting. Sure theorycrafting is nice and can be very productive, but it's all moot if experimental and factual evidence proves otherwise. Take the ICs and Diddy for example, many thought with the Infinte Grabs that the ICs would become broken and Top Tier, but when you actually look at tourney results, the truth is shown that it's far from that, because simply the best of players know to not get grabbed and the fact that they are relatively hard to learn drives away others, keeping them from being consistently used. Diddy with his hax Nanerz mindgames was thought to be a very capable and possibly Very High Tier canadate, but again look at tourney results as of now, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. Now look at a character like Ike, I personally hate him with a burning passion, and think he's way too laggy and predictable to be of any use, but the thing is he's still placing relatively well aside from that. Now i'm not denying that these characters aren't good or bad, and in fact they are actually starting to rise/drop in performance respectively, but we cannot rely our opinions on just theorycraft alone, we have to see how these things actually play out in a real life situation and make judgements from there.

 

[BEES]

Ganon is fine against most characters, but he does have some hard counters. Whole lotta fun to play though. It's nice ending a stock in 3 hits, at a comfortably low percentage. Reminds me of the good ol' days.

 

[Ulevo]

Because it shows that she's predictable, she'll always have to be in the air to be an effective character, characters like Metaknight are great on Land or in the air and are harder to stop overall

I seriously doubt Jiggs outclasses Metaknight either, espiacially when Meta has disjoints and range on his aerials because of Galaxia, and how retardedly powerful Dair can be in terms of priority is knockback. And even what you say about Rollout is true, there is one piece of copypasta I would like to have you read.



Sure, all of can debate and discuss a character's strengths and weaknesses here, but what truly matters is that what happens when it's actually applied in a tournament setting. Sure theorycrafting is nice and can be very productive, but it's all moot if experimental and factual evidence proves otherwise. Take the ICs and Diddy for example, many thought with the Infinte Grabs that the ICs would become broken and Top Tier, but when you actually look at tourney results, the truth is shown that it's far from that, because simply the best of players know to not get grabbed and the fact that they are relatively hard to learn drives away others, keeping them from being consistently used. Diddy with his hax Nanerz mindgames was thought to be a very capable and possibly Very High Tier canadate, but again look at tourney results as of now, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. Now look at a character like Ike, I personally hate him with a burning passion, and think he's way too laggy and predictable to be of any use, but the thing is he's still placing relatively well aside from that. Now i'm not denying that these characters aren't good or bad, and in fact they are actually starting to rise/drop in performance respectively, but we cannot rely our opinions on just theorycraft alone, we have to see how these things actually play out in a real life situation and make judgements from there.

For the record, very few characters are better than Meta Knight, and I definitely never stated Jiggs was. I did leave out the fact that he edge guards better, but that was my fault. As for the paste, I understand the meaning behind it, but it is flawed in two ways.

1) I am talking about Jigglypuff as a character, and where she stands in the tier placement (or rather where she doesn't stand). Tournament results and a characters potential share similarities, but are not directly correlated. If a very limited amount of players played Snake, that would effect how well his tournament results were. It would not, however, change the fact that he is likely top tier. Many people will choose popular characters because they happen to be the better end, but that is not always true if the learning curve for that character is more difficult or advanced to play with. That is why, despite being an exceptional character, Falco isn't (or at least wasn't) winning tournaments left, right and center along with Snake and Meta Knight.

2) We are only a few months in to the games future. In my mind, we're not ignorant enough to refute from making theorycraft on who's what and how; it's all common sense really. But we are certainly not far enough along to state any characters tournament results are very reliable for comparison other than Snake or Meta Knight, because no other characters have had consistent placements both beside or under those two.

 

[Browny]

please provide tourney vids of a jigglypuff beating any pro snake/G&W/MK/marth/dedede/rob/falco/anyone decent.

i could provide you with plenty of sonics beating those played by top players.

then you may continue

 

[Ulevo]

I'm offering my opinion. I don't need to support it through videos, because that is the same as proving it through tourney results. You want my opinion on tournament results? Look above. Jiggs is at the moment a lesser played character, so solid gameplay will be hard to find.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I thought Yoshi was being called the worst.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I already stated why Sonic is at the bottom above.

And no offense or anything, but you can't be very good as a Jiggs secondary if you really believe she is at the bottom. She is one of the faster characters in brawl due to her aerial maneuverability (second only to Wario, and you should never be on the ground with Jiggs either). She has one of the best edge guarding games that kills anyone not named Pit, Sonic and ROB, her aerials have high priority, Rest still kills at low percents compared to most moves in Brawl and be combo'd into via Dair... If you're just going to compare it to Melee Rest, of course it's garbage. Her Fair kills quite easily now and her Bair is still great, as is her Pound. She can double aerial in a short hop, and her Roll Out has been buffed out the wazoo. The only disadvantages Jiggs has is being extremely light and having no long range attacks or projectiles. Both can be worked around somewhat through proper DI and anti camping tactics.

Extremely light, no ground game, no range, no projectiles, poor priority, no kill moves, no speed, should I continue? All she has that makes her semi playable is aerial maneuverability, but if I wanted that I could just play Wario, and get some real attacks to go along with it. Even if you can combo d-air to rest on a semi-competent player, that doesn't make her good considering that the opponent needs to be at a good 100+% for that to kill, and there are many characters capable of comboing people to death or high %'s. Lots of characters can double aerial in a short hop and have better aerials to do that with. I've survived a Charged Jigglypuff fsmash at well over 100% with Olimar, without super armoring it either... That pretty much means that the attack can't even get him 6 inches away from the stage, let alone kill at an acceptable %. If you honestly think Jigglypuff is good, come to the next esticle, so you can money match Cort, PC, and all the other top placing Snakes there. If you win, that'll be awesome.

At least Sonic has everything Jigglypuff has, with 10 times the speed, better B moves, and attacks that look similar to each other to make him harder to read. This makes him better.

 

[PwnyRide]

After some testing, Ganon's recovery goes almost as far as Zelda's (in vertical).

By example, Ike's recovery sucks.

So i hear the earth is flat.

Ganon, sure he's "okay". But theress a certain point when Ganon gets completely outshined in one aspect or another. *Nearly* all the light characters have a (spammable) projectile, making his immense physical hits and approaches equate to nil. I in no way dislike Ganondorf, nor do i like himm, but some people are forgetting that Brawl favours the abuse of projectiles, one of Ganon's (if not his key) weakness(es).

People can say 'play smart' with Ganondorf, but you can only do so much, even if you're the best, and you're down if the enemy plays 'smarter'.

 

[Sakki]

Yea, i dunno. Ganon is definitely one of the more fun characters to play as like Ike. Both have absurd destructive potential. Ike has his friends and Ganon's got his Sparta Kick, which btw is an awesome attack not only for its similarity to 300 but also because of it's decent speed, excellent power, and good knockback direction.

But yeah, i'd never play as either in a serious match.