Meta Swordfighter Matchups. Zero Suit Samus

Antonykun

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That's not true, the tornado and SoL are great spacing tools as well. In Charizard's case, I remember he hates being above people, so Tornado is perfect against him.
If Zard really hates being above people then he must detest being above Swordfighter.

dat 16% up air
 

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Are any of you interested in reviving this thread? Going back to our topic, I think ZSS is a -1 or -2. Both characters kill earlier than expected, but SF has a laggier neutral.
 
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After the 5 months of death on this thread, I'm going to try to bring it back and ask about the Mii Swordfighter vs Mewtwo MU. I personally want to know how SF beats M2 and how M2 beats SF. I'm also fine with how SF beats M2 by itself.
 
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AEMehr

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Do you have issues with a Mii Swordfighter in your region?
 
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No I'm just plain curious lol. Mii SF seems like something that could be a surprise and I just want to know how to counter it and how Mii SF counters it.
 
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Ryuphoton

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No I'm just plain curious lol. Mii SF seems like something that could be a surprise and I just want to know how to counter it and how Mii SF counters it.
I think the Swordfighter V Mewtwo matchup is uh... Not doing very many favors for Swordfighter. Mewtwo has good range, a pretty ok projectile, fairly fast moves and solid kill moves amongst other things. While in Swordfighter's court, a solid grab, decent range, a ok projectile and a fairly heavy weight is what he has to work with. I think mewtwo can exploit this matchup pretty hard vs default Swordfighter because of mewtwo's speed and aerials. Swordfighter's aerials are all pretty slow except bair, but I wouldn't expect that move alone to be the savior of Swordfighter's aerial game vs mewtwo. What Swordfighter does have working for him that might give mewtwo some problems is Gale Strike and killing. Gale Strike, while slow can eat through shadow ball (probably not a fully charged one) and maybe zone out mewtwo in neutral but probably not due to mewtwo's speed. The ultimate saving grace for Swordfighter is killing. Mewtwo is a light character and he can be destroyed by Swordfighter's Uair and fsmash, mostly Uair. But that won't be enough to beat mewtwo for default Swordfighter.
Now with custom Swordfighter, it does get better but not enough for Swordfighter to have advantage over mewtwo. Chakram and whatever neutral B projectile of choice can alleviate mewtwo's zoning to a degree, but the deduction of range for Swordfighter (assuming we are playing small miis since those are the best) is the ultimate bane for Swordfighter.
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tl;dr
:4miisword:v:4mewtwo:: +3 Mewtwo (1111)
:4miisword:v:4mewtwo:: +1 Mewtwo (Custom)
 

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This whole forum seems to be dead, so I might as well post. I feel like Mii Swordfighter relies very heavily on a lucky f-smash or up-air in that MU. Mewtwo has some serious range and very decent frame data. Mewtwo has very threatening combos, but feels less oppressive to fight against than some other top-tiers like Fox or Sonic. It's a pretty fun matchup because both sides can get some early kills. Probably +2 in Mewtwo's favor.

What do you think about Bayonetta?

Are there any even MUs Mii Swordfighter has with high-tier characters? Any winning matchups?
 

Ryuphoton

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This whole forum seems to be dead, so I might as well post. I feel like Mii Swordfighter relies very heavily on a lucky f-smash or up-air in that MU. Mewtwo has some serious range and very decent frame data. Mewtwo has very threatening combos, but feels less oppressive to fight against than some other top-tiers like Fox or Sonic. It's a pretty fun matchup because both sides can get some early kills. Probably +2 in Mewtwo's favor.

What do you think about Bayonetta?

Are there any even MUs Mii Swordfighter has with high-tier characters? Any winning matchups?
Assuming we are talking about default swordfighter, probably not. Sure he may have a sword, but how much does that mean when a majority of his moves are pretty slow? That and his recovery is fairly exploitable. His mobility isn't exactly good, either. If we are talking custom, I would say yeah he would have some even matchups. I would say mario would be a decent matchup because of the increased mobility he gains and a better recovery.
 

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Assuming we are talking about default swordfighter, probably not. Sure he may have a sword, but how much does that mean when a majority of his moves are pretty slow? That and his recovery is fairly exploitable. His mobility isn't exactly good, either. If we are talking custom, I would say yeah he would have some even matchups. I would say mario would be a decent matchup because of the increased mobility he gains and a better recovery.
Pretty much my thoughts as well. Chakaram can sometimes lead to grabs or dash attack, but at most Swordfighter lands an up-air follow-up. I feel like those matchups are generally lackluster. Do you think Mii Swordfighter wins against Jigglypuff or another fellow bottom-tier, or is the MU spread just universally bad?
 

Ryuphoton

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Pretty much my thoughts as well. Chakaram can sometimes lead to grabs or dash attack, but at most Swordfighter lands an up-air follow-up. I feel like those matchups are generally lackluster. Do you think Mii Swordfighter wins against Jigglypuff or another fellow bottom-tier, or is the MU spread just universally bad?
For default swordfighter, I would say he has a slightly advantageous matchup(s) vs Ganon, Jiggs and Zelda due to the range a sword provides and the down throw to up air combo lasts longer percents vs ganon or kills earlier vs jiggs and zelda. Custom swordfighter I find has a similar MU spread to link.
 

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For default swordfighter, I would say he has a slightly advantageous matchup(s) vs Ganon, Jiggs and Zelda due to the range a sword provides and the down throw to up air combo lasts longer percents vs ganon or kills earlier vs jiggs and zelda. Custom swordfighter I find has a similar MU spread to link.
Really, like Link? That's pretty encouraging, actually. How do you think Mii Swordfighter does vs. Dr. Mario or Luigi? Both of them have combos and can gimp us. Does Doc's bad mobility make the matchup even?

What's the ideal playstyle in MUs where you can't get grabbed?
 

Ryuphoton

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Really, like Link? That's pretty encouraging, actually. How do you think Mii Swordfighter does vs. Dr. Mario or Luigi? Both of them have combos and can gimp us. Does Doc's bad mobility make the matchup even?

What's the ideal playstyle in MUs where you can't get grabbed?
Playing vs a Luigi is quite a strange matchup indeed (at least when I've played luigis). I would call it even for default because luigi has a difficult time landing and swordfighter's aerials are certainly capable of edgeguarding or slight juggling. But if you get trapped in a luigi string, there isn't much you can do about it. Back air won't save you all the time. Vs Doc it's also an even matchup because as long as you avoid bad ledgeguard situations, swordfighters have a fighting chance. Doc's grab game isn't as intricate as mario's so you generally have better chances of living a grab combo. He has powerful kill moves, but swordfighter's weight can help with that.
With a custom, I think these become favorable matchups because 1, I find that a small swordfighter can escape luigi strings better. 2, He can juggle better, and that's a huge detriment to luigi's because of the air speed. But don't get too crazy, he has that nair. 3, you can equip a reflector and instigate gimps better yourself vs luigi and especially Doc. And with the right playstyle (I have had the best success with a bait and punish playstyle with both default and custom vs these two) you can secure a solid victory.
 

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Playing vs a Luigi is quite a strange matchup indeed (at least when I've played luigis). I would call it even for default because luigi has a difficult time landing and swordfighter's aerials are certainly capable of edgeguarding or slight juggling. But if you get trapped in a luigi string, there isn't much you can do about it. Back air won't save you all the time. Vs Doc it's also an even matchup because as long as you avoid bad ledgeguard situations, swordfighters have a fighting chance. Doc's grab game isn't as intricate as mario's so you generally have better chances of living a grab combo. He has powerful kill moves, but swordfighter's weight can help with that.
With a custom, I think these become favorable matchups because 1, I find that a small swordfighter can escape luigi strings better. 2, He can juggle better, and that's a huge detriment to luigi's because of the air speed. But don't get too crazy, he has that nair. 3, you can equip a reflector and instigate gimps better yourself vs luigi and especially Doc. And with the right playstyle (I have had the best success with a bait and punish playstyle with both default and custom vs these two) you can secure a solid victory.

Huh, I like the optimism. I feel like vs. Luigi is a slight disadvantage because of his good frame data, but I could see why it would be even. Does Luigi struggle against swords or against projectiles?

Do you tend to use the reflector, when available? I've seen videos of Tofer using it in Quebec locals. How does it compare to counter in XXXX settings?

What do you think is Mii SF's worst matchup? Are there any -3 matchups, or are things mostly manageable?
 

Ryuphoton

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Huh, I like the optimism. I feel like vs. Luigi is a slight disadvantage because of his good frame data, but I could see why it would be even. Does Luigi struggle against swords or against projectiles?

Do you tend to use the reflector, when available? I've seen videos of Tofer using it in Quebec locals. How does it compare to counter in XXXX settings?

What do you think is Mii SF's worst matchup? Are there any -3 matchups, or are things mostly manageable?
Luigi tends to struggle against range in general. Swords are more of a problem than projectiles for the green guy, I think.

I do use the reflector most of the time because it can be used as a surprise tool against say... a Samus or Wii Fit. Or another character that has a powerful projectile. The counter v reflector all depends on what you value more if you ask me. Do you prefer potentially getting an early kill up close or get better stage position due to having to opponent eating a powerful attack back in their face and sent flying? Or do you prefer getting an early kill at long range and have the ability to gimp easier? I prefer the reflector due to better gimp opportunities.

For default? Has to be Sheik. Her grab game is extremely potent vs swordfighter and needles just kinda make swordfighter die due to his poor recovery. Custom swordfighter it really depends on the build.
 
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