Switching to Yoshi; good beginner tips?

[t3h Icy]

I main Sheik and Jigglypuff and occasionally play a plethora of other characters ranging from Falco to Bowser, but something about Yoshi makes me want to main him.

A little bit of a background, my city is basically all Brawl, so naturally, I can't really get much better at Melee and I'm basically playing for poops and giggles. Yoshi seems to be one of the most unique characters with his weird properties and also one of the most obscure (except for maybe Kirby/Zelda/Ness/Y.Link), so he's a bit appealing.

The thing is though, I have literally never played him besides the Single-Player modes and started playing him with all the knowledge of ATs and Yoshi-specific techniques during the last few days. I'm going through guides and watching Yoshi videos more carefully now, but what are some good starting tips for a Yoshi player?

I tend to play very defensively and force approaches out of my opponent, and I'm not sure how well that playstyle can compliment Yoshi. Also, while I'm somewhat technical, my main characters are easy to use, so will switching to Yoshi force more dexterity out of me?

Thanks.

 

[Mind Trick]

Getting comfortable with DJC is probably most important, you can switch up the timing in so many ways and with shorthop/fulljump and regular/reverse it allows for a lot of freedom in the air. Learn how to control the eggs trajectory and after that Edge Cancelled Eggs, they are amazing and you should practise to do them fast and without SD'ing too much If you add some wavelanding to your game, you can definitely become as fast/technical as most spacie mains xD

As with any char learn the range on your moves, stuff like upsmash hits way farther than most people expect. I don't know how much ou can improve this aspect without any real competition but coping without OoS options can be hard at first (especially for people who mained another char before Yoshi). Mostly avoid shielding or lightshield.

If you can play on the defense depends mostly on the matchup imo. As far as long range goes, eggs are great projectiles, but not for straight out camping, other chars can do a much better job at that (although camping the edge with ECE from time to time, especially on stages like YS I can definitely recommend). Full out offense all the time isn't the best way to go either with no reliable approach, although if you get momentum Yoshi definitely has amazing pressure if you get fast with DJC. A mix of campy egg play/baiting with DJC/pressuring with his speed, is the most rewarding playstyle for Yoshi imo.

 

[t3h Icy]

Thanks. Yeah, I've got ECE down for the most part, I just need to be more comfortable using it, as I tend to use it late to make sure I don't SD. Interestingly enough, I've never liked DJCers, "grapple hook grabbers", and I tend to shield a lot so Yoshi is completely different for me.

What are the staple moves for Yoshi (I haven't gone through the guides quite yet)? DJC Nairing seems to work and dash attack can start mini combos. How effective is the multi-hitting of DJC Dairing, and what should I be killing with? Also, one thing I noticed is DSmash seems to send FFers into the lower corners of the stage, even at 0%, but I assume that isn't as effective if a player is CCing. Is it typically a good move?

 

[Lordydennek]

Dtilt!!!!!!!! love it. oh and dont ever grab unless youre 10000000000% sure youre gonna get it. otherwise you get punisssshhheeeddd.
i kill with his fsmash>edgehog or if theyre floaty uair juggles or upsmash. and you were right dsmash against ffers. umm i like to force my opponents into dunks. since yoshi has 2 (almost 3 if you count dtilt) his dair and fair both are effect at off stage kills.
yoshis bair is one of my fav moves to approach with to pressure them into sheilding or something like that. since you mained sheik, as i do, you will have a feel for the bair and spam it accordingly lol.
and the nair has surprising killing power if you cant force them into a low percent death you can nair to kill

 

[Mind Trick]

Thanks. Yeah, I've got ECE down for the most part, I just need to be more comfortable using it, as I tend to use it late to make sure I don't SD. Interestingly enough, I've never liked DJCers, "grapple hook grabbers", and I tend to shield a lot so Yoshi is completely different for me.

What are the staple moves for Yoshi (I haven't gone through the guides quite yet)? DJC Nairing seems to work and dash attack can start mini combos. How effective is the multi-hitting of DJC Dairing, and what should I be killing with? Also, one thing I noticed is DSmash seems to send FFers into the lower corners of the stage, even at 0%, but I assume that isn't as effective if a player is CCing. Is it typically a good move?

Staple moves... I can honestly say every move in yoshi's arsenal has a use (except for maybe that horrible egg roll >_<).

Nair, upair and the smashes are pretty good for killing purposes, offstage fair is pretty good as well but has more risk and the chance that they'll just meteor cancel it. Dsmash sends the FF at a horrible angle for them to recover and comes out pretty quick as well, at earlier % though you don't want to risk the lag of this move, just go with dtilt. Out of CC, as techchase, as an edgeguard, even out of roll it's really ****ing good though.

I wouldn't recommend DJCing the dair, it's much better just shffl'd or fullhopped. Shffl dair combos into dsmash at high %. Full hop dair is ok to techchase platforms.

 

[Shiri]

I wanted to put so many things here.

I guess I'll put stuff later.

One thing to remember with Yoshi, at least for the way I play, is keeping magic numbers in mind.

0: The percent at which a down tilt on Falco off stage KOs him.

2: The number of Peach downsmash hits you have to shield before you can guarantee a shieldgrab on the move.

15: The percentage Pikachu has to be before you can start doing down throw forward air chains on him.

55: The percentage at which you can begin to lift Samus off the ground with some of your launchers.

60: The percentage at which tipper forward smash stops Yoshi's double jump (with no knockback).

90: The percentage at which any character undergoes enough stun on a down air to follow up with a downsmash or other equally fast move.

There are others, but Yoshi is really a match character when I play him, so learning different numbers and how they play to your advantage in particular matchups will help you out a lot.

I was gonna talk about the things you said your playstyle was like and how that applies to Yoshi, but I can't right now. I will try tomorrow, though.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

D-tilt has constant knockback (just as in 64). So that said, if you're against someone with a bad up-B recovery (e.g. Falco, Dr. Mario, etc.), using d-tilt as an edgeguard sends them far enough away so that they can't recover (even at 0%). Similarly, if your opponent has a bad recovery, and you are both near the edge (you closer to the center of the stage), if you down-tilt them (even at 0%), you can get a quick easy low-percent kill (sometimes a d-tilt edgeguard is needed if they aren't sent far enough with the first one).

Other than that, Up-tilt combos into itself against certain characters (unlike 64, this does not have constant knockback). Both up-tilt and f-tilt combo into many moves.

Up-air has alot of priority, and is a very good finisher.

Some yoshi help from a fellow 64 player

 

[darkgirku]

Bair can be a good combo starter, as in:
bair to u-tilt etc etc.
bair to Upsmash
bair to djc'd uair combos

Some powerful points in yoshi's game that i've observed over the years have been his crazy ability to completely reverse his momentum in the opposite direction using his DJC. couple that with the appropriate aerial and you got a quick and surprising punish for baited attacks.
The other one is DJC counters... This one is probably pretty advanced and is really hard to master... but you can tank an attack and simply bypass the histun (using yoshi's "superarmor" frames in his jump) to counter with your own move. these counters are hard to DI because they catch people by surprise all the time.

Wavelanding, as Mind Trick mentioned, on platforms can indeed make yoshi incredibly fast. you can perfect waveland on them prety easily out of a double jump with some practice.

One last thing, his neutral b.... his neutral B is bowser's worst nightmare and prly (maybe) works prety well against other big/slow characters. it's great even against any character, as it is hard to spot dodge and bypasses shields.

Yoshi is awesome xD

 

[Lovage]

<- picking up yoshi

he is a very unique character and will be a fun challenge for me.

 

[Lordydennek]

Good choice Lovage! Yoshi is the most fun.

 

[t3h Icy]

Just a bit of an update: I still suck since I'm stuck with playing CPUs at the moment, but I'm fluent with Yoshi now and I love his Ftilt and Utilt combos.

My style with Yoshi is more defensive (like my Puff and Sheik), so I don't like using DJCing too, too often incase I get hit during the attack (though I love using it at low percents), I can do reverse Nairing, reverse Bairing, and all that jazz.

I'm going to a Brawl tournament in a week and a bit, but during Low Tier, me and some of the Melee players are going to do some matches, so I might get some videos of me getting wrecked up.

o/

 

[SheerMadness]

I'm picking up Yoshi too. I decided to pick him up before Lovage so I win.

I main Yoshi in ssb64 and melee Yoshi can't do anything ssb64 Yoshi can so I've been struggling getting used to his playstyle.

 

[t3h Icy]

Yoshi is one of the most unique characters in Melee (perhaps Ice Climbers are moreso), so it's not an easy transition from any character, I would imagine.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Haha all the 64 players are playing Yoshi

 

[Lordydennek]

lolz play yoshi in brawl...he just cant do anything.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

He can do lots of stuff in brawl. It's just harder to do since other characters can do way more

 

[Velox]

For a new Yoshi, know that b-air is a very good move. You can approach with it, either overshoot your opponent with it or stop way short (space) and with the almost zero lag of this move, d-smash/f-tilt/spotdodge or something when you land (they'll try to come punish you with something..) A famous Yoshi (Svampen) plays like this. It'll go through things like turnups, and if it hits you usually get a few hits from the b-air and then you can combo off of it with like a f-tilt/u-tilt/d-smash/etc.

so yeah, b-air *****, without it Yoshi would feel naked to me.


also, somebody mentioned neutral 'b' as a good move (it is, I highly recommend use of this move to maximize Yoshi's specific-ness as a character), but forgot to mention that although it is useful because it's a grab that can be done anywhere, it'd be next to useless if it weren't for the fact that it has almost no lag at all, and although you as a Yoshi player realize this, almost nobody else does. So make sure after you wiff a neutral 'b' (possibly on purpose for the cerebral players out there), you spot dodge (and then counter) or dash away into a pivot f-smash or something to counter your opponents almost certainly missed grab..


Just watch players like Svampen and do what they're doing. Don't try and reinvent the wheel in this case..


This is my 666 post. This is appropriate because in this case the reference to the beast is actually a reference towards my Yoshi..

 

[Shiri]

Hang on one second real quick.

I need some backup.

Because I'm pretty sure I just saw Velox post.

Someone pinch me, please.

Just...not too hard.