Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[SpottedCerberus]

And you aren't gonna tell us WHY Yoshi and King Dedede are down.

King Dedede has bad match-ups. Worse than the characters he's currently grouped with. (Mewtwo's are bad as well, but I'm not as sure.) So I voted him down. He's not useless, but neither are Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, or Zelda. He belongs with them more than he belongs in the tier that he's currently in.

Yoshi is currently ranked in the top tier. This is odd, because not only is he somewhat unexceptional, with rather average match-ups, but he also has no results whatsoever to back up the placement. Luigi and Pikachu at least have Boss and ESAM. Basically, it's not about why I voted him down so much as that there was no justification at all for him being so high in the first place.

 

[Wintermelon43]

King Dedede has bad match-ups. Worse than the characters he's currently grouped with. (Mewtwo's are bad as well, but I'm not as sure.) So I voted him down. He's not useless, but neither are Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, or Zelda. He belongs with them more than he belongs in the tier that he's currently in.

Yoshi is currently ranked in the top tier. This is odd, because not only is he somewhat unexceptional, with rather average match-ups, but he also has no results whatsoever to back up the placement. Luigi and Pikachu at least have Boss and ESAM. Basically, it's not about why I voted him down so much as that there was no justification at all for him being so high in the first place.

Results osn't what makes a character a character. It's who they are. That's like saying you like Justin Bieber more than your parents and your best friend because "He has more popularity"

 

[wedl!!]

-1
+1
+1

 

[Levateinn]

Results osn't what makes a character a character. It's who they are. That's like saying you like Justin Bieber more than your parents and your best friend because "He has more popularity"

Dont make outrageous comparisons, we are voting to determine where a characters best chance for results stems from. This isn't "who do we like", this is where they stand.


-

-

-

-looking to break them from that group.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

-1 No, seriously. He's not even that good. Just look at the results for CEO 2015. Larry Lurr is the only one who used Luigi and did well, and not only did he just use Luigi as a secondary, he beat ESAM with the threat of a counterpick. ESAM had to switch from Samus to Pikachu (arguably Luigi's best top-tier match-up) not because his Samus couldn't handle Luigi, but because Larry would have counter-picked Fox, who wrecks Samus. (And is also a generally more viable character than Luigi.) The highest placing solo-Luigi main was........I don't even know. I think a lot of people are just watching Boss play and chalking his incredible skill up to Luigi being OP. Or they're horribly misplaying the match-up. Luigi has a terrible MU spread compared to Sheik. Sheik doesn't have a single negative match-up, and maybe a couple even ones. Luigi is hard countered by more than one character.

-1 There is no reason for Yoshi to be this high. That is all.

- What are you doing up there, Mr. Dedede? Who told you that you could be up there? This isn't Brawl. You don't hard counter the entire bottom tier anymore, and you get hard countered by like three or four different characters. Now go back to your corner before I call Mario or Mega Man or Villager or Zero Suit Samus over here to put you back in your place. What are you gonna do? Chain-grab them? Oh, wait. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Yoshi is in the right Spot, but ZSS should be higher just imo. Let me check if I can vote XD

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Going to do what Wintermelon43 did and only my top 3 will count. The rest are just my opinions!


+1 Rosalina(Ok I just want rosa back where she belongs, top 2. Rosa is definetly Top 2 and if anything argues then expect an army of Lumas at your front Door.)
+1 Zero Suit Samus(IMO Top 4.)
+1 Kirby(Because I know someone will downvote kirby)
-1 Falcon(Worse Than Villager IMO, speaking of Villager...)
+1 Villager(Top 10, good results in Japan, and good projectile game.)
+1 Roy(Way too low imo. At his Meta's current state he is high mid tier.)
+1 Pit(Should be Higher)
+1 Dark Pit(Don't make him end all the way below pit again.)
+1 Greninja(What is he doing down here, did Daddy Sakurai Nerf you between tier changes?)
+1 Pac-man(What is he doing down there.)
+1 Ness(Top 5 imo)
-1 Samus(I think she is the worst character don't kill me please.)
+1 Bowser(Mid-tier)
+1 Wii Fit Trainer(Not that bad of a character)
-1 Luigi(Not #2, but still good)

I feel like there will be an official tier list once EVO has finished. I will also be going there to hopefully(Prob not), that Sonic is good, ZSS is top 4, Rosa is top 2, Pikachu is top 3, and Ike can be higher up!

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Results osn't what makes a character a character. It's who they are. That's like saying you like Justin Bieber more than your parents and your best friend because "He has more popularity"

My point is that his high place in the list would be justified if he had stellar results, but he does not.

 

[Wintermelon43]

My point is that his high place in the list would be justified if he had stellar results, but he does not.

Baby has more views then the rest of his songs, is baby automatictially better than the rest of his songs???? More popularity (Because that's basicially what representation is) means nothing!!!

 

[shadowmm151]

Results osn't what makes a character a character. It's who they are. That's like saying you like Justin Bieber more than your parents and your best friend because "He has more popularity"

What are you talking about?! Tier lists are specifically about who can win. Results actually matter a great deal more than theory-craft.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Baby has more views then the rest of his songs; is baby automatically better than the rest of his songs?

I wouldn't know.

More popularity (because that's basically what representation is) means nothing.

You are equating popularity with results. They aren't the same thing, even if there is a correlation. Lack of tournament results doesn't necessarily prove that a character is not high tier, although a plethora of positive results can help to prove the opposite.

But if you think that any character is high tier, then the burden of proof is on you. The average character is mid-tier, by definition. If you think that Yoshi deviates from this mean, then you should offer some kind of justification for it. Citing tournament results would be one way of doing this. It would also be the most falsifiable and concrete way to do so.

 

[Woohoo982]

+1 Underrated as heck, has results and great kill power.
+1 Really, why is he still last? Zelda is much worse IMO.
-1 (Because Mii SF>Zelda)

 

[Wintermelon43]

I wouldn't know.

You are equating popularity with results. They aren't the same thing, even if there is a correlation. Lack of tournament results doesn't necessarily prove that a character is not high tier, although a plethora of positive results can help to prove the opposite.

But if you think that any character is high tier, then the burden of proof is on you. The average character is mid-tier, by definition. If you think that Yoshi deviates from this mean, then you should offer some kind of justification for it. Citing tournament results would be one way of doing this. It would also be the most falsifiable and concrete way to do so.

But people choose who they like!! It literatatly depends on the character that have the most fun from players! Both my brothers use Charizard and do pretty successfully! Do I say they're top tier? NO!!!!!!! Two of my friends use pac-Man! Do I consider him top tier? No!!! This ISN'T a presidentatal election! The most popular isn't who is #1!!!! It's FACT, and the CHARACTER itself, that proves how good a character is.The game even says this itself!!! Sometimes, somebody wins because they used a better character, NOT because they were better. In reality, the other person was better, but the CHARACTER still won. The game itself even says character is more important than representation. The only time representation matters is when a character's potentntial wasn't fully shown, and I doubt Yoshi has any more potentntial, since he's already top tier!!!!

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Yeah...... I went nuts didn't I? Sorry about that. Eh, I'll probably be banned anyway now, but Sorry bout that

 

[Zerp]

Actually yes, she probably better than

She has great range and decent frame data. She can get out of many situations with Nayru's love and she has a great combo game. She has many guaranteed kill set-ups too like falling nair to Elevator/Usmash, dtilt to uair, and dthrow to uair. Her edgeguarding game is also one of the best in the game because of dtilt hitting under ledges, Dair being a strong and longlasting spike, Phantom for horizontal recoveries. She can teleport cancel to the ledge for a surprising edgeguard. She also kills as early as bowser with the elevator. Her only major problems are mobility (which can be solved with teleport canceling) and approach.

Sorry for how late this is. I disagree with her being better than any of the characters you listed, but I can definitely see how she'd be on the same playing field or even equal to , and. She's got some real strengths for sure, but pretty much everyone does this time, and I still don't see how her kit is better than anyone else's. Which is why I downvoted her, it's not that I don't see her as viable, I just can't see her as being more viable than anyone else. You did an excellent job listing her strengths though, I'll admit I didn't know that you could connect the two different hits of teleport until now. And this is off topic, but, thank you for being so civil about this, I really appreciate it.

 

[Macchiato]

Sorry for how late this is. I disagree with her being better than any of the characters you listed, but I can definitely see how she'd be on the same playing field or even equal to , and. She's got some real strengths for sure, but pretty much everyone does this time, and I still don't see how her kit is better than anyone else's. Which is why I downvoted her, it's not that I don't see her as viable, I just can't see her as being more viable than anyone else. You did an excellent job listing her strengths though, I'll admit I didn't know that you could connect the two different hits of teleport until now. And this is off topic, but, thank you for being so civil about this, I really appreciate it.

You didn't know about it? It can kill light characters at 70% with no rage so that imo is one of the main reasons shes better. She has Bowsers Kill power. The elevator is a great oos option and kill set-ups. I respect your opinion but I hope it changed. Samus doesn't have kill set ups, and struggles to land the kill. Idk I feel like she is better than Samus in most ways.

 

[shane3x]

Rosa +1
Luigi -1
Robin +1

 

[Browny]

I think @ Browny made a mistake when he fixed the double marth issue, removing the extra marth instead of replacing with lucina.

@ Zerp posted this quote, we can use as reference for where Lucina was so the voting can continue while we wait for Lucina to be added back.

Thanks yeah that was where she was.

 

[Silxer]

You didn't know about it? It can kill light characters at 70% with no rage so that imo is one of the main reasons shes better. She has Bowsers Kill power. The elevator is a great oos option and kill set-ups. I respect your opinion but I hope it changed. Samus doesn't have kill set ups, and struggles to land the kill. Idk I feel like she is better than Samus in most ways.

A bit off topic, but I can confirm that combo kills pretty early after facing a pretty good Peach/Zelda on for glory a few days ago when I was playing Pit. Really caught me off guard and lost the match as a result, but it was a fun match.

 

[The Puffer]

Yay for the second round:

+999999 (lol jk, +1): Am I the only one who thinks she has improved A LOT since Brawl??? She has many strong and creative ways of edge guarding and her kill potential is sick (but a bit tricky with sweet spots and lags). I kind of see her in middle tier if she gets future buffs.

+1: Yup, I still think she's too low.

+1: I'm going to puff your jigglies until she is a little bit higher.

Also, if anyone wants to vote -1, you should watch BeatFox's videos (/0-0)/

 

[Zionaze]

citing justin beiber as your argument should not be a thing. ever

 

[Flux0r]

+1: nuff said.

+1: Nairo's 2nd place at CEO showed how capable she is.

-1: Way too high, he has in reality nothing going for him. Completely butchered from Brawl.

(You should also think about splitting the tier-list with more letters ranging from "S" to "E". That way, we can get a clear understanding where the characters exactly lie.)

 

[vegeta18]

+1
+ 1
+1

 

[Wintermelon43]

+1
+ 1
+1
+1
-1

Only three votes this time.

Yay I'm that guy again...

 

[Wintermelon43]

+1: nuff said.

+1: Nairo's 2nd place at CEO showed how capable she is.

-1: Way too high, he has in reality nothing going for him. Completely butchered from Brawl.

(You should also think about splitting the tier-list with more letters ranging from "S" to "E". That way, we can get a clear understanding where the characters exactly lie.)

These aren't tiers

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

And you aren't gonna tell us WHY Yoshi and King Dedede deserve to be farther down?

you dont have to explain mang

 

[dbwithlemon]

citing justin beiber as your argument should not be a thing. ever

Agreed,
-1 @ Wintermelon43 for knowing so much about Bieber

 

[Zelbur]

+1 Roy
+1 Ike
+1 Zero Suit Samus

 

[aqu]

+

 

[Wintermelon43]

Agreed,
-1 @ Wintermelon43 for knowing so much about Bieber

Lol baby's the only thing I know about Justin Bieber (And that's because that song's a meme.). I only said that since it has a lot of views, even if most are to troll prople or fislike it.

 

[NickRiddle]

-
-
-

 

[Zionaze]

-1 @ Wintermelon43 for mentioning "baby" again

 

[_gold_]

Wow! Samus isn't top tier but she shouldn't be that low.
+1
-1
-1
Let's remember this is a tier list, and not a who's your favorite fighter list.

 

[Deleted member]

+1
+1
-1

 

[dbwithlemon]

Wow! Samus isn't top tier but she shouldn't be that low.
+1
-1
-1
Let's remember this is a tier list, and not a who's your favorite fighter list.

I would agree, ESAM showed some solid Samus use at CEO, she definitely has potential.

 

[Wintermelon43]

-1 @ Wintermelon43 for mentioning "baby" again

I used to be a baby when I was 1 year old.

-1 to me

Oh no I got 3 down votes I'm gonna go down a tier

 

[Fuerzo]

+
+
+

 

[Levateinn]

I used to be a baby when I was 1 year old.

-1 to me

Oh no I got 3 down votes I'm gonna go down a tier

These aren't tiers

-1 Wintermelon43; makes me confuzzled..

 

[kirby509]

+ (Can easily be top 5. Great strings, edgeguarding potential, aerial mobility, and kill power. The only problem I see is that he can be gimped.)
+ (Why is she not top 2?)
+ (Amazing camping ability, good recovery, great combo ability, good range, and decent kill power. Although Pikmin priority might be an issue, he is still a great character with a lot of potential.)

 

[kirby509]

+ (Can easily be top 5. Great strings, edgeguarding potential, aerial mobility, and kill power. The only problem I see is that he can be gimped by some of the cast.)
+ (Why is she not top 2?)
+ (Amazing camping ability, good recovery, great combo ability, and decent kill power. Although Pikmin priority might be an issue, he is still a great character with a lot of potential.)

 

[Liduri]

+1 (should be 3, or a bit lower)
+1 (Not that bad)
-1 (Buffed, but dont deserve that position)

(if i could vore more...)

+1 he's broken sh*t
-1 a bit lower
-1 lower cause nerfs
-1 ( 7th position empty ) for disrespect​

 

[SwoodGrommet]

+1
+1
-1