Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Routa]

Counter votes are seriously annoying. I really hope people don't do stuff like this as the list goes on.

I'm fine with counter votes if they are reasonable. Without counter voting last list would have been hell of a mess (Jiggly would have been mid tier without counter votes etc).

 

[Yoshister]

And for a good reason.

Counter votes are seriously annoying. I really hope people don't do stuff like this as the list goes on.

inb4 the next post only has counter votes.

 

[MarioMeteor]

And for a good reason.

Counter votes are seriously annoying. I really hope people don't do stuff like this as the list goes on.

I'll be sure to counter vote as much as possible, then.

 

[HerpFish]

Counter-voting is fine, but isn't it kind of early for it? It's only the first round. The characters have yet to move so if Jigglypuff (as an example) doesn't move, then she will be ahead of any character that did move down and if most people believe that she is the worst (which I've seen quite a few people say), it will be a game of catch-up for a while until she gets there. This prevents other characters from getting votes as others vote to fix a character that most believe should have moved. A single counter-vote at this stage can cause issues because this is the framework for the rest of the tier list.

If anything, characters just need to spread out right now so more specific voting can begin, so unless someone thinks a character should move they should not vote, even if they use less than five votes. That's just my two cents on this.

 

[Xandercosm]

You know, looking back at it, it's sad that the community voted tier list is more official than the official tier list.

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1. She's been run into the ground already.

As @Feelicks said, you really shouldn't be counter-voting. The character deserves to be last so it doesn't matter how many downvotes she gets. Also, countervotes don't even do anything.

I agree about this tier list being more official than the "Official Tier List", though.

 

[MarioMeteor]

As @Feelicks said, you really shouldn't be counter-voting. The character deserves to be last so it doesn't matter how many downvotes she gets. Also, countervotes don't even do anything.

I agree about this tier list being more official than the "Official Tier List", though.

If you're trying to imply that Jigglypuff is worse than Zelda, Ganondorf, and Palutena, I have some choice words for you. I think I'll continue to counter vote and pretend like I'm doing something, thank you kindly.

I honestly can't see the logic behind releasing a tier list a few days before a patch.

 

[Xandercosm]

If you're trying to imply that Jigglypuff is worse than Zelda, Ganondorf, and Palutena

I am trying to imply that. I don't know why you just came up with some arbitrary characters to list out but I do happen to consider her below all 3 of them. She's the worst character in the game and wether or not she's your secondary doesn't change that.

Browny could you help us explain the "no countervotes" thing, please? I thought the countervote epidemic was driven into extinction a long time ago but I guess it adapted to our vaccines.

 

[Wintermelon43]

+1 In case anybody lashes at me for doing a counter-vote, I already planned to upvote her anyway. I like to vote underrated characters for the first round.

+1

+1

+1

+1

 

[Routa]

My stand in this subject is this:

You can vote anyway you want, but if you make a uncommon or very odd vote... Well you gotta have dem reasons. For example if I + vote let's say Ike that is all fine due to Ike being commonly agreed to be above mid tier, but if I happen to vote let's say Zelda with +... Well I have to have some reasons why I think she would be above average. Also if someone asks you to reason your vote... you gotta do it.

Also my english does suck, but so does Jiggly.

*insert Jiggly main's salt here*

 

[MarioMeteor]

I am trying to imply that. I don't know why you just came up with some arbitrary characters to list out but I do happen to consider her below all 3 of them. She's the worst character in the game and wether or not she's your secondary doesn't change that.

Browny could you help us explain the "no countervotes" thing, please? I thought the countervote epidemic was driven into extinction a long time ago but I guess it adapted to our vaccines.

Hate to knock you off your high horse, but what you consider to be true and what is actually true are obviously two very different things, so you can keep your considerations to yourself because I stand by my vote.

 

[Xandercosm]

Hate to knock you off your high horse, but what you consider to be true and what is actually true are obviously two very different things, so you can keep your considerations to yourself because I stand by my vote.

Well, it's more like what me and everyone else in this thread considers to be true.

 

[Djmarcus44]

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
Edit: Since they are allowing Miis to have their full movesets for this tier list, I changed my vote on Brawler.

 

[Deleted member]

You know something is wrong with your character when the best Brawl Jigglypuff player (Dapuffster) can't stand her in this game.

Hungrybox, even if he's not a relevant Smash 4 player himself, at least tries to play Puff in every game. He even made it on Florida's Brawl PR using Dedede and Jiggs. He just couldn't play her in this game because he himself even knew Jiggs was terrible, there's a reason he mains Ness now.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Well, it's more like what me and everyone else in this thread considers to be true.

I doubt it, because as the previous tier list, voted by everyone in this thread, says, Jigglypuff is indeed not last.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Th

I doubt it, because as the previous tier list, voted by everyone in this thread, says, Jigglypuff is indeed not last.

that was before countless patches and more meta development last mean nothing

 

[z1mb0bw4y]

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1

 

[MarioMeteor]

Th

that was before countless patches and more meta development last mean nothing

None of them affected Jigglypuff. In fact, the shieldstun changes even helped her. It takes more than a few months for the metagame to develop the likes of which you're implying it did.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

None of them affected Jigglypuff. In fact, the shieldstun changes even helped her. It takes more than a few months for the metagame to develop the likes of which you're implying it did.

Ok first off, back then we had like 2 people constantly up vote jigglypuff for no reason so yeah. Second of all, abosulutely many things have changed. Mewtwo got buffed, Samus got results, Zelda has a rep, gannon got eh buffs, Mii Sword and Gunner are not in their own tier due to more experience, Duck Hunt is considered lower tier, Brawler is also considered bad. The meta has changed a lot.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Ok first off, back then we had like 2 people constantly up vote jigglypuff for no reason so yeah. Second of all, abosulutely many things have changed. Mewtwo got buffed, Samus got results, Zelda has a rep, gannon got eh buffs, Mii Sword and Gunner are not in their own tier due to more experience, Duck Hunt is considered lower tier, Brawler is also considered bad. The meta has changed a lot.

It sounds like you think that the meta evolved for everybody but Jigglypuff, and that's just not true. The worst characters are still the worst characters, except for Mewtwo. We'll see in a few months, or however long this new list takes. Hopefully not as long as the last.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

It sounds like you think that the meta evolved for everybody but Jigglypuff, and that's just not true. The worst characters are still the worst characters, except for Mewtwo. We'll see in a few months, or however long this new list takes. Hopefully not as long as the last.

Many people think puff is the worst, or in the bottom 3. Also, you have to realize the meta was earlier in then now. We know more, and we know new stuff. Puff has like what, Bair and Fair for her. You are not giving quality reasons for her not to be in the bottom.


EDIT:You did not see me last time vote for a char w/o reason, i think every vote needs reasoning. Also, i will include reasoning for my votes in like after someone else posts.

 

[Xandercosm]

It sounds like you think that the meta evolved for everybody but Jigglypuff, and that's just not true. The worst characters are still the worst characters, except for Mewtwo. We'll see in a few months, or however long this new list takes. Hopefully not as long as the last.

Actually, what ShadowGuy1 said was that as the meta developed, Jiggs fell lower and lower. We know she's the worst. She's even bottom 2 on the "Official Tier List".

And yeah, just give us some reasons otherwise stop saying the same thing over and over again.

 

[Adamss]

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Ok, so my vote reasoning. I honestly do not think I need to explain Rosa and Sonic, if i do then you need to go to smash school. I feel like bayo and corrin should start in tier 3 because they both have been considered by many that area. Bayonetta has more potential and Corrin I feel is a mid tier/high tier char as of right now so yeah.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Diddy Kong, Ness, and Pikachu have one up vote, Villager has no up votes

This is why we have muitiple voting sessions

 

[MarioMeteor]

Many people think puff is the worst, or in the bottom 3. Also, you have to realize the meta was earlier in then now. We know more, and we know new stuff. Puff has like what, Bair and Fair for her.

And this tells me you know nothing about Jigglypuff.

You are not giving quality reasons for her not to be in the bottom.

You are not giving quality reasons for her to be in the bottom.

EDIT:You did not see me last time vote for a char w/o reason, i think every vote needs reasoning. Also, i will include reasoning for my votes in like after someone else posts.

Good for you! Here, you want a cookie?

Actually, what ShadowGuy1 said was that as the meta developed, Jiggs fell lower and lower. We know she's the worst. She's even bottom 2 on the "Official Tier List".

And yeah, just give us some reasons otherwise stop saying the same thing over and over again.

Lower and lower in what exactly? You do realize this is the first tier list we've ever had?

 

[Dusk Pit]

-1 (She just is the worst character in the game)
-1
+1
+1
+1

 

[ShadowGuy1]

And this tells me you know nothing about Jigglypuff.

You are not giving quality reasons for her to be in the bottom.



Good for you! Here, you want a cookie?

Lower and lower in what exactly? You do realize this is the first tier list we've ever had?

Ok, you want reasons, ill give you some, but maybe you should be a dear and give some yourself. 1.If puff had more tools, we would actually see an argument, not just you saying random s**t. Secondly, puff does not have a proper game in general. From my knowledge, she has no confirms into rest, have you seen ANY puff do well. We have seen every character, besdies like gannon and miis, get results(zelda has ven). Results actually MATTER. That is the reason yoshi is not higher up. I do admit, my knowledge on puff is little, but I don't think you have knowledge on every character. Also, @Feelicks and Xandercosm and Bowserboy3 can back me up


EDIT:Also, that cookie thing was just flat out rude.

 

[Xandercosm]

You are not giving quality reasons for her to be in the bottom.

I'll make you a list in typical Xandercosm fashion:

• Insanely low range
• Low priority moves
• Lightest character in the game
• Rest barely kills until around 60-70% unless the opponent has awful DI
• Very few combos
• Wall of pain is gone from Melee
• 3rd (or 2nd, I forget) slowest dash speed
• No throw combos
• Bad frame data on smash attacks
• Some of the most laughable specials in the entire game

There you go.

 

[Yoshister]

I'll make you a list in typical Xandercosm fashion:

• Insanely low range
• Low priority moves
• Lightest character in the game
• Rest barely kills until around 60-70% unless the opponent has awful DI
• Very few combos
• Wall of pain is gone from Melee
• 3rd (or 2nd, I forget) slowest dash speed
• No throw combos
• Bad frame data on smash attacks
• Some of the most laughable specials in the entire game

There you go.

Jigglypuff has the second worst dashing speed, ahead of Robin.

 

[LRodC]

I'll make you a list in typical Xandercosm fashion:

• Insanely low range
• Low priority moves
• Lightest character in the game
• Rest barely kills until around 60-70% unless the opponent has awful DI
• Very few combos
• Wall of pain is gone from Melee
• 3rd (or 2nd, I forget) slowest dash speed
• No throw combos
• Bad frame data on smash attacks
• Some of the most laughable specials in the entire game

There you go.

I agree with most of these, but you should probably list her strengths too in order to make it fair. If you look at everything in tunnel vision, it doesn't paint an accurate picture of the character.

 

[Zerp]

I'll make you a list in typical Xandercosm fashion:

• Very few combos
• Wall of pain is gone from Melee

There you go.

Okay, most of those reasons you listed are accurate but as a Jigglypuff main it is my duty to point out that Wall of Pain still exists, it just revolves around Fair more than Bair now. Also, while your technically correct that she doesn't have much combos, the ones she have are very useful, D-air is a notorious combo tool that goes into Rest, and she has a 0 to death that works on a minority of the cast.

Spoiler: Zero to death and WoP

You have no idea how satisfying it is to land this thing.

These are actually pretty easy to pull off, but still satisfying.

Thanks for giving reasons though, I appreciate it.
Edit: Please note that I'm not saying Jigglypuff is a good character.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

1+
1+
1-
1-
1+

 

[MarioMeteor]

I'll make you a list in typical Xandercosm fashion:

• Insanely low range
• Low priority movesi
• Lightest character in the game
• Rest barely kills until around 60-70% unless the opponent has awful DI
• Very few combos
• Wall of pain is gone from Melee
• 3rd (or 2nd, I forget) slowest dash speed
• No throw combos
• Bad frame data on smash attacks
• Some of the most laughable specials in the entire game

There you go.

Fair enough. And here is my retort:

• Her lightweight status makes her practically immune to combos.
• Her air game is damn near unrivaled.
• The lingering hitboxes on her aerials makes them great defensively.
• She has one of the best recoveries in the game.
• Rest actually kills at around 60% on average and is a very good out of shield punish.
• She has one of, if not the best edgeguarding games of the cast.
• Her small stature makes her harder to hit than most other characters.
• She racks up damage quickly when she gets in.
• She's extremely hard to punish when here aerials are spaced correctly. And last but not least,

She's fabulous.

From my knowledge,

Your extremely limited knowledge.

EDIT:Also, that cookie thing was just flat out rude.

I know, why do you think I said it?

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'll try and do my typical "yeah, she has negatives, but she has positives" comparison on Puff...

- Low range? Well, yeah. Low range.
- Some moves are low priority, but most of them are just so slow it seems like they have terrible priority because lots of other hitboxes come out before them.
- She is indeed the lightest character, ans though it can help in some situations like not getting combo'd as much, you could argue that a character doing half a a bread and butter combo could put her in KO range because she's so light.
- To be fair, Rest is decent. It's not terrible, but it's just not something you fear anymore, as it cant take your stock from a single mistake. It deals incredible damage, but it's main boon is for killing, and even though it still kills rather early relative to a lot of kill moves, it's still not as rewarding as one would expect for such a laggy, punishable move.
- No combos is kinda true. She can string aerials together pretty well, and has a really good off stage gimp game. It would be fantastic if she had a reliable way to get an opponent in a scary off stage position easily, but she doesn't.
- She is VERY slow, but is very fast in the air. You just have to play it right I suppose.
- I'll just add that though the shield changes may have helped her Pound and Back Air and Smash Attacks loads, the fact that she dies off a shield break makes this irrelevant, especially when you have characters like Marth. Lucina, Samus, Yoshi, Bowser, Ganon etc who can all destroy a full shield instantly.

Meh, even some of those I had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for. I don't like this whole *reels off only negatives* fashion. Every character has some positive, no matter how little it is. That's Jigglypuff's problem; her positives are so little, she just doesn't have much of a chance to shine. It's such a shame, because a better launch angle and more power on Rest could totally make her main gimmick scary.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Now i feel like I am getting attacked for being in an argument by someone who will not be named. First off, saying correctly or when she gets in is more situational imo. Secondly. i don't think many of those really make her bettter than the likes of zelda.

 

[Xandercosm]

• Her lightweight status makes her practically immune to combos.
• Her air game is damn near unrivaled.
• The lingering hitboxes on her aerials makes them great defensively.
• She has one of the best recoveries in the game.
• Rest actually kills at around 60% on average and is a very good out of shield punish.
• She has one of, if not the best edgeguarding games of the cast.
• Her small stature makes her harder to hit than most other characters.
• She racks up damage quickly when she gets in.
• She's extremely hard to punish when here aerials are spaced correctly. And last but not least,

This list is funny. Literally every one of those points is wrong if not the complete opposite of the truth.

• Her lightweight barely helps her escape from combos since she has no real combo breakers
• Her air game is actually quite average since it's balance by her low range. Yoshi's air game is probably the best of the cast due to high priority, long-range move and the fastest air speed in the game.
• Lingering hitboxes are only useful if you have the range for them to even hit the opponent. Again, Yoshi does this better.
• Her recovery is awful and actually one of the worst since she has no U-special recovery option. It's incredibly easy to gimp with a simple F-tilt or or D-tilt or even a fast smash attack.
• Rest is awful and can be punished even if it hits since it doesn't guarantee star KO.
• Again, her bad recovery and low range make her edge-guarding quite bad. Look to MK or Pika for a good edge-guarding game.
• Her small stature is decent. The only true point you actually listed.
• She doesn't rack damage that quickly since her moves are pretty weak. Also, even if she did, it's so hard to get in for her that it doesn't matter.
• She's not that hard to punish since she has to get so close to her opponent to actually hit them.

 

[Routa]

Her air game is damn near unrivaled.

Wario, Swordfighter, M2, MK, Cloud, G&W, Ness, Lucas, Pikachu, Pit(s), Villager, Toon Link and Yoshi all have a better or equal air game.

She has one of the best recoveries in the game.

It is far from one of the best recoveries. It is linear, slowish and lacks hitbox (makes it relatively easy to challenge).

She has one of, if not the best edgeguarding games of the cast.

Her edgeguarding is good I give you that, but once again there are characters with far better edgeguarding game. For example Wario can cover pretty much every ledge get up options with Chomp and he can go relatively easily off stage and challenge his foes recovery with Dair and Fair. Also he has his Waft (and if customs are in the play he has waft every 30 sec so....).

She racks up damage quickly when she gets in.

And the magic word is... IF. The thing is that she has hard time getting in due to her small hitboxes, lack of disjoints, unsafe on shield moves and lag. Jiglly needs to be on your face to deal damage and the sad thing is that being on someones face with Jiggly is dangerous as ****.

Now I am aware of the things she is good at, but what I'm seeing there is a lot more cons than pros when it comes to Jiggly.

 

[Xandercosm]

Wario, Swordfighter, M2, MK, Cloud, G&W, Ness, Lucas, Pikachu, Pit(s), Villager, Toon Link and Yoshi all have a better or equal air game.


It is far from one of the best recoveries. It is linear, slowish and lacks hitbox (makes it relatively easy to challenge).


Her edgeguarding is good I give you that, but once again there are characters with far better edgeguarding game. For example Wario can cover pretty much every ledge get up options with Chomp and he can go relatively easily off stage and challenge his foes recovery with Dair and Fair. Also he has his Waft (and if customs are in the play he has waft every 30 sec so....).


And the magic word is... IF. The thing is that she has hard time getting in due to her small hitboxes, lack of disjoints, unsafe on shield moves and lag. Jiglly needs to be on your face to deal damage and the sad thing is that being on someones face with Jiggly is dangerous as ****.

Now I am aware of the things she is good at, but what I'm seeing there is a lot more cons than pros when it comes to Jiggly.

Yes to this whole post.

 

[Deleted member]

Why have we wasted nearly a page trying to convince a brick wall that Jigglypuff is a bad character lmao

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

+1
+1
+1
+1(I doubt I'd get a free be on this without getting asked why, but even then, I ain't the best debater.)
-1