Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[IndigoSSB]

Now I don't play Lucina herself to differentiate enough, but are the differences between her and Marth really enough to have them split up while the Pit duo are put together?

Not many people really believe that, the list ended up like that because of the final voting phase. We all got a single vote that we could use on any character that we believed should move up or down. A lot of people wanted Marth to move up, so up he went. However, nobody wanted to waste their single, precious vote to help Lucina move up along with him. So now we're left with this.

Lucina's in a weird situation honestly. She's similar enough where she'll never be that far behind Marth, but the tipper matters enough to maker her inferior.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I still can't imagine her being worse enough to Marth that it's as drastic as Dr. Mario vs. Mario or Roy vs. Marth, though. I do get the idea though that at top potential, Marth is conceivably better by a noticeable margin.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Now I don't play Lucina herself to differentiate enough, but are the differences between her and Marth really enough to have them split up while the Pit duo are put together?

Yes it is.

Pit and Pittoo only have 3 extremly minor changes to differentiate eachother, while Marth and Lucina has a massive difference...which is the tipper.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Yes it is.

Pit and Pittoo only have 3 extremly minor changes to differentiate eachother, while Marth and Lucina has a massive difference...which is the tipper.

Correct, it is enough to split them up, but not by a whole tier.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Also, Xandercosm and Furret24 , this is that replay. Don't expect anything fancy. I am very critical of my gameplay, I whiffed many attacks and combos, but somehow still played decent. It's odd how I somehow managed to win - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqhpLQsJyFo

 

[Bowserboy3]

Link really doesn't have the results needed to be higher, but I agree R.O.B. should go up a peg.

This. R.O.B. is super good.

 

[Furret24]

Also, Xandercosm and Furret24 , this is that replay. Don't expect anything fancy. I am very critical of my gameplay, I whiffed many attacks and combos, but somehow still played decent. It's odd how I somehow managed to win - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqhpLQsJyFo

Maybe he was having a bad day, or just playing casually. :/

 

[Xandercosm]

Also, Xandercosm and Furret24 , this is that replay. Don't expect anything fancy. I am very critical of my gameplay, I whiffed many attacks and combos, but somehow still played decent. It's odd how I somehow managed to win - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqhpLQsJyFo

That was really cool. I did notice a few mistakes. But, really, you can't eliminate EVERY mistake. I think it was great and it's nice to see that these guys have fun playing FG once in a while, as well.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Maybe it's possible that was an impersonator? The most famous Mario Kart Wii player had so many impersonators that when people supposedly played against him, (Even if it WAS him), They just assumed it was a fake.

 

[Munomario777]

Maybe it's possible that was an impersonator? The most famous Mario Kart Wii player had so many impersonators that when people supposedly played against him, (Even if it WAS him), They just assumed it was a fake.

I don't think that you can have an identical NNID to someone, though.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Maybe it's possible that was an impersonator? The most famous Mario Kart Wii player had so many impersonators that when people supposedly played against him, (Even if it WAS him), They just assumed it was a fake.

I wondered this after the game, but an hour later I though to check his stream, where he was practicing gold Falcon against viewers. I also checked his Mii name, which was "ramin", so it was indeed him.

But that's something about the Wii U, it's harder to impersonate somebody due to the fact that you can't have the same NNID as them.

 

[Routa]

I would personally maybe lower ROB's placing. As far as I know he has REALLY hard time fighting top tier characters. Why? He lacks "Get away from me you freak!" moves. His projectiles can backfire really hard. I mean he is great and all, but puting him in the same tier as Ike, who has a lot safer moves and has easier time killing, just doesn't feel right. Even tho I don't think results should be a big factor in placing, but he is kinda lacking in results. I can see him as regional threat, but I cannot see him being as a national threat.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I would personally maybe lower ROB's placing. As far as I know he has REALLY hard time fighting top tier characters. Why? He lacks "Get away from me you freak!" moves. His projectiles can backfire really hard. I mean he is great and all, but puting him in the same tier as Ike, who has a lot safer moves and has easier time killing, just doesn't feel right. Even tho I don't think results should be a big factor in placing, but he is kinda lacking in results. I can see him as regional threat, but I cannot see him being as a national threat.

ROB's Dsmash is a pretty useful get off me move, and it's a bit safer now too thanks to the shield changes. Not great, but it's fairly good. Fair also has good range and is quick, akin to Marth's (though it isn't disjointed). The thing with ROB is the fact that he can also finish you off at a relatively low percent thanks to a good grab read or punish. Dthrow to Uair can kill as low as 80% if he has rage. The setups he can pull with his Gyro are good too.

His kill moves are buffed from Brawl too, and are pretty good, but in reality are still only above average, but they aren't bad. ROB is also being used a lot by many people. It will be interesting to see where he goes. Though how much he deserves to go up is debatable, I think he certainly doesn't deserve to be any lower.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Correct, it is enough to split them up, but not by a whole tier.

By a whole tier no(Plumbers and Doctors yeah), but separate none the less.

 

[Xandercosm]

I would personally maybe lower ROB's placing. As far as I know he has REALLY hard time fighting top tier characters. Why? He lacks "Get away from me you freak!" moves. His projectiles can backfire really hard. I mean he is great and all, but puting him in the same tier as Ike, who has a lot safer moves and has easier time killing, just doesn't feel right. Even tho I don't think results should be a big factor in placing, but he is kinda lacking in results. I can see him as regional threat, but I cannot see him being as a national threat.

Also, you should't even compare him to Ike. Ike is fine but R.O.B. is way better. If you are going to use an example of a character better than R.O.B., use an actually good one please.

 

[Liduri]

Actually, her range isn't bad, really. Not good, but not bad EITHER.

Additionally, she has no lack on speed. She has the second fastest air speed. Only her run speed is bad, and you shoudn't even be running much anyway.

Only the second thing was true. You obviousaly know nothing about the character (Not even the gender was ok, Jigglypuff's a girl. But that doesn't mean much unless you main the character, which you don't)

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/039.shtml

Gender Ratio

Male : 25%
Female : 75%


Pls, dude...

 

[Routa]

Also, you should't even compare him to Ike. Ike is fine but R.O.B. is way better. If you are going to use an example of a character better than R.O.B., use an actually good one please.

Top kek.

ROB is what I call a strong counterpick character. He has some great MUs, but not enough good MU's to be a Solo viable. Ike in the other hand has more stable MU spread. He has less MU's where he is counters someone, but unlike ROB; his top tier MU's aren't that bad. Ike, as I stated before, has more safe on shield moves which improve his approach game. Unlike Ike ROB cannot approach safely due to lag of the moves and lack of safety. Yes ROB can force his foes to approach, but Lazer is laggy and even his Nair is kinda laggy which leaves him with only 2 moves to use when under pressure: Fair and Gyro. Fair is mainly used as "GTFO" move and... well that is pretty much all you can do with it. Yes Ike lack any kind of "GTFO" move so that is 1 part where ROB outshines Ike. But the thing is that Ike is a Bait and Punish character. He doesn't have 101 plans like ROB.

Yes ROB can deal a lot of damage from 1 throw. You know who els can? Ike. ROB can kill from throw combo.... Guess who els can? Ike again. I hear a lot of people ignoring how strong Ike's punish game is. Ike's Utilt kills at about 115% without rage from main stage in FD, Ftilt kills at about 110% and same with his Fair and Bair. Along with thous he has Eruption (one of the best edgeguarding tools within game). Also Uthrow into Bair is solid 21% at low %. Also his Bair and Fair are amazing in neutral due to their rather fast speed along with safety and kill power. Oh and Rar Bair is a thing to fear.

What I am trying to say is that ROB is far from bad character, but he feels so out of place in a tier with the best (or 2nd best) Bait and Punish character. Ike has a bit better KO options, his moves are more safe, his punish game is superior, his spacing game is better and has more combos. Ike just has better overall MU spread compared to ROB along with theory and results. Ike is better for solo maining than ROB, but ROB is really good counterpick character. For now Ike just has more things going for himself that ROB. I can see them being in the same tier, but saying that ROB should be higher than Ike or Faptain makes me want to cry. Ike still suffers from "It is just the hype" syndrome when it comes to his placing within the tier lists.

Edit: aaaand I sound like a fanboy defending his Waifu... Yey...

 

[Xandercosm]

Top kek

...of 2015.

 

[VPTurnip]

I like this tier list, but there are parts of it that just seem strange.

Like Meta Knight being really high tier and Olimar being mid tier, despite tournament results. I know CT Vex had some decent showings, but really, is he really considered to be that high by most players? This is not Brawl MK. Olimar on the other hand has been shown on high-levels of play consistently, and in tourneys, with people like Myran and Dabuz showing off some of his tech and skill, and should definitely be mid-high tier. But then, this is a community voted thing, and not many people know Olimar well or even follow tournaments, so it makes sense lol.

And like Lucina being a whole tier away from Marth.. no tipper, okay, but a whole tier? Not just down a tier and a little away? Wow..

I dunno, feels a little iffy to me. Still, I think it's pretty accurate overall.

EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong since I don't follow the Falcon at all, but isn't he considered much lower tier in competitive play? I can't help but feel a lot of his votes came from people who face him on FG.. might be wrong though.

Oh well, not like it really matters. Feel free to ignore me lol.

 

[a dog]

Well at least it's better than the Eventhubs one, I guess.

 

[Furret24]

Well at least it's better than the Eventhubs one, I guess.

Any tier list is better than Eventhub's tier list.

 

[a dog]

Oh, I could totally make up a worse tier list. Watch this:

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
"Who Cares" Tier:
Bottom Tier:



On topic, I knew that Pikachu is a really frustrating MU for DK, but I didn't think that Pikachu is top tier overall. Guess that means I have a salty excuse to use in the future. "I only lost because Pikachu is top tier! ;__;" lol

 

[aεrgiα]

I like this tier list, but there are parts of it that just seem strange.

Like Meta Knight being really high tier and Olimar being mid tier, despite tournament results. I know CT Vex had some decent showings, but really, is he really considered to be that high by most players? This is not Brawl MK. Olimar on the other hand has been shown on high-levels of play consistently, and in tourneys, with people like Myran and Dabuz showing off some of his tech and skill, and should definitely be mid-high tier. But then, this is a community voted thing, and not many people know Olimar well or even follow tournaments, so it makes sense lol.

And like Lucina being a whole tier away from Marth.. no tipper, okay, but a whole tier? Not just down a tier and a little away? Wow..

I dunno, feels a little iffy to me. Still, I think it's pretty accurate overall.

EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong since I don't follow the Falcon at all, but isn't he considered much lower tier in competitive play? I can't help but feel a lot of his votes came from people who face him on FG.. might be wrong though.

Oh well, not like it really matters. Feel free to ignore me lol.

Edit: screw nightly backup, just deleted over half of my post...
well, not to hate or sound rude, but is vex really the only metaknight u can think of? if so that may explain why this "high" placement surprises you, sure hes not brawl mk, he would be number one on this list if he was, but that doesnt make him bottom tier, the main reason why people think hes that high is because of his ability to kill so damn early, example: http://oddshot.tv/shot/tourneylocator-2015100417726930 (note that ike was at ~19% and mk had no rage). the most "notable" set(which showed everyone what mk can do) was mr.r vs leo, i dont know whether thats on youtube or somewhere, or whether its still up on twitch, but that shows why mk is so scary, thats the set that made people realize theres more to mk than just "hes not brawl mk so hes bad"

as for lucina, marth moved up in the very last voting phase, im sure in the next round, lucina would have followed after him(just read the previous pages, they show that other people dont agree with the tier gap either). and falcon not being high tier... i dont know what to say, hes widely considered as a good character, this isnt brawl notable players that come to mind(sorry if i miss people, i dont follow falcon at all:/ ) are fatality, tear bear and acid... but i will say, this is a comunity voted tier list and looking at some of the reasoning given for the votes, i dont think its far fetched claiming a lot of the votes are from fg experience TT_TT

 

[Xandercosm]

I like this tier list, but there are parts of it that just seem strange.

Like Meta Knight being really high tier and Olimar being mid tier, despite tournament results. I know CT Vex had some decent showings, but really, is he really considered to be that high by most players? This is not Brawl MK. Olimar on the other hand has been shown on high-levels of play consistently, and in tourneys, with people like Myran and Dabuz showing off some of his tech and skill, and should definitely be mid-high tier. But then, this is a community voted thing, and not many people know Olimar well or even follow tournaments, so it makes sense lol.

And like Lucina being a whole tier away from Marth.. no tipper, okay, but a whole tier? Not just down a tier and a little away? Wow..

I dunno, feels a little iffy to me. Still, I think it's pretty accurate overall.

EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong since I don't follow the Falcon at all, but isn't he considered much lower tier in competitive play? I can't help but feel a lot of his votes came from people who face him on FG.. might be wrong though.

Oh well, not like it really matters. Feel free to ignore me lol.

You need to watch some Meta Knight videos... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4WeakkrP4g

 

[ShadowGuy1]

EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong since I don't follow the Falcon at all, but isn't he considered much lower tier in competitive play? I can't help but feel a lot of his votes came from people who face him on FG.. might be wrong though.

Well, Falcon is still considered high tier by the likes of many. Fatality still reps and does decently well with im.

 

[aεrgiα]

Top kek.

ROB is what I call a strong counterpick character. He has some great MUs, but not enough good MU's to be a Solo viable. Ike in the other hand has more stable MU spread. He has less MU's where he is counters someone, but unlike ROB; his top tier MU's aren't that bad. Ike, as I stated before, has more safe on shield moves which improve his approach game. Unlike Ike ROB cannot approach safely due to lag of the moves and lack of safety. Yes ROB can force his foes to approach, but Lazer is laggy and even his Nair is kinda laggy which leaves him with only 2 moves to use when under pressure: Fair and Gyro. Fair is mainly used as "GTFO" move and... well that is pretty much all you can do with it. Yes Ike lack any kind of "GTFO" move so that is 1 part where ROB outshines Ike. But the thing is that Ike is a Bait and Punish character. He doesn't have 101 plans like ROB.

Yes ROB can deal a lot of damage from 1 throw. You know who els can? Ike. ROB can kill from throw combo.... Guess who els can? Ike again. I hear a lot of people ignoring how strong Ike's punish game is. Ike's Utilt kills at about 115% without rage from main stage in FD, Ftilt kills at about 110% and same with his Fair and Bair. Along with thous he has Eruption (one of the best edgeguarding tools within game). Also Uthrow into Bair is solid 21% at low %. Also his Bair and Fair are amazing in neutral due to their rather fast speed along with safety and kill power. Oh and Rar Bair is a thing to fear.

What I am trying to say is that ROB is far from bad character, but he feels so out of place in a tier with the best (or 2nd best) Bait and Punish character. Ike has a bit better KO options, his moves are more safe, his punish game is superior, his spacing game is better and has more combos. Ike just has better overall MU spread compared to ROB along with theory and results. Ike is better for solo maining than ROB, but ROB is really good counterpick character. For now Ike just has more things going for himself that ROB. I can see them being in the same tier, but saying that ROB should be higher than Ike or Faptain makes me want to cry. Ike still suffers from "It is just the hype" syndrome when it comes to his placing within the tier lists.

Edit: aaaand I sound like a fanboy defending his Waifu... Yey...

well, while i agree with what u said on ike, i think ur underselling rob quite a bit... ike is a great punish char, but rob is a great stage control/ zoner char. i could go on for days about what a great tool gyro is, its great for stage control, to cover ledge get up options, it combos into moves, throw it out and it blocks certain projectiles, u can use it to gimp people safely, and its a good projectile to throw at people in general. nair is also a great spacing tool, sure its got a slow start up, but its disjointed, covers all around rob and autocancels nicely making people thing twice about rushing in carelessly. on the topic of approaching rob, if u misspace an aerial or throw out an unsafe move on shield ur gonna eat an oos usmash, and damn is that move strong and fast i personally think rob is right at home in this tier, not too high and not too low, same as ike

Edit: also on a side note, ive seen it said a few times that has the best edgeguarding game, and it hasnt been challenged so i assume this is general consensus? if so could someone enlighten me please? i am asking this not because i disagree but rather because i enjoy playing as swordsman, and if im missing something in regards to what he can do id love to know so i can "step up my game"

 

[Xandercosm]

also on a side note, ive seen it said a few times that swordsman has the best edgeguarding game, and it hasnt been challenged so i assume this is general consensus? if so could someone enlighten me please? i am asking this not because i disagree but rather because i enjoy playing as swordsman, and if im missing something in regards to what he can do id love to know so i can "step up my game"

Meta Knight is the best edge-guarder in the game, hands down. He's a "swordsman".

 

[aεrgiα]

Meta Knight is the best edge-guarder in the game, hands down. He's a "swordsman".

i meant mii sword with that, ill edit my post(again) to make it clearer

 

[Furret24]

Meta Knight is the best edge-guarder in the game, hands down.

Mr. Game and Watch begs to differ.

 

[A10theHero]

Meta Knight is the best edge-guarder in the game, hands down. He's a "swordsman".

Mr. Game and Watch begs to differ.

Thunder, Thunder Jolt, Pikachu's quick aerials (some of which can lead to a stage spike), and the ability to go deep off-stage while still recovering safely and quickly all make Pikachu arguably the best edge-guarder in the game.

 

[Xandercosm]

Thunder, Thunder Jolt, Pikachu's quick aerials (some of which can lead to a stage spike), and the ability to go deep off-stage while still recovering safely and quickly all make Pikachu arguably the best edge-guarder in the game.

I think all three of them are great edge-guarders. They all can go SUPER deep, they all have quick moves to keep you on your toes off-stage, and they all are small and hard to hit.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Oh, I could totally make up a worse tier list. Watch this:

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
"Who Cares" Tier:
Bottom Tier:



On topic, I knew that Pikachu is a really frustrating MU for DK, but I didn't think that Pikachu is top tier overall. Guess that means I have a salty excuse to use in the future. "I only lost because Pikachu is top tier! ;__;" lol

Pit needs to be placed way higher than that

 

[Furret24]

I think all three of them are great edge-guarders. They all can go SUPER deep, they all have quick moves to keep you on your toes off-stage, and they all are small and hard to hit.

Game and Watch's aerials are surprisingly slow in start-up (only one is faster than frame 10). What makes them good is their good disjoint, long lasting hitboxes, decent damage, and amazing versatility. Dair is great against opponents recovering low and can spike, fair has a large disjoint with a long-lasting hitbox, bair can fence-of-pain, uair can screw with recoveries with it's massive windbox, and up special kills off the side and has invincibility frames.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Oh, I could totally make up a worse tier list. Watch this:

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
"Who Cares" Tier:
Bottom Tier:



On topic, I knew that Pikachu is a really frustrating MU for DK, but I didn't think that Pikachu is top tier overall. Guess that means I have a salty excuse to use in the future. "I only lost because Pikachu is top tier! ;__;" lol

At the very least, DK isn't last on the eventhubs tier list. Oh wait yea he is

 

[TMNTSSB4]

At the very least, DK isn't last on the eventhubs tier list. Oh wait yea he is

And Pit's higher than Pittoo

 

[Routa]

Edit: also on a side note, ive seen it said a few times that has the best edgeguarding game, and it hasnt been challenged so i assume this is general consensus? if so could someone enlighten me please? i am asking this not because i disagree but rather because i enjoy playing as swordsman, and if im missing something in regards to what he can do id love to know so i can "step up my game"

Swordfighter is one of the few characters that wants to go for off-stage edgeguard. He has 3 amazing moves that are perfect for off-stage edgeguarding: body covering Nair, fast multihit Fair and multihit Dair that spikes. Both Nair and Fair come on frame 11 (well the aren't the fastest) and are both disjointed. I would compare his Fair to Pit(s)'s Fair, but better as a KO move. Also depending from the weight his mobility can be great or okish for edgeguarding. Anyways his best edgeguarding tool is Dair (well it is also his best move so...). What makes it so great? Multihit, disjointed, high damage, high KB and spikes. Amazing, eh? You should try to avoid recovering low when fighting against Swordfighter. Don't challenge it. Swordfighter will always will the trade.

Also depending from his special move he can also on stage edgeguard with moves like Tornado, SoL, Chakram, and "Cape". Also he does have a counter so he can edgeguard Ike and Luigi rather well.

Anyways Swordfighter has a lot of tools for any kind of edgeguarding situations, so try to avoid going off stage. What is my tip for recovering against Swordfighter? Try to recover as fast as possible and try to avoid recovering low. No one is safe from his edgeguarding. *dramatic music*

He is top 5 edgeguarder and I would say better than let's say MK (yeah I said it! Feght mi!!!1!)

 

[Number Three]

Oh, I could totally make up a worse tier list. Watch this:

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
"Who Cares" Tier:
Bottom Tier:



On topic, I knew that Pikachu is a really frustrating MU for DK, but I didn't think that Pikachu is top tier overall. Guess that means I have a salty excuse to use in the future. "I only lost because Pikachu is top tier! ;__;" lol

Still better than Eventscrubs...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Still better than Eventscrubs...

Sad but true

 

[Xandercosm]

Game and Watch's aerials are surprisingly slow in start-up (only one is faster than frame 10). What makes them good is their good disjoint, long lasting hitboxes, decent damage, and amazing versatility. Dair is great against opponents recovering low and can spike, fair has a large disjoint with a long-lasting hitbox, bair can fence-of-pain, uair can screw with recoveries with it's massive windbox, and up special kills off the side and has invincibility frames.

Wow, they really are deceptive. I always thought his aerials were pretty fast.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Wow, they really are deceptive. I always thought his aerials were pretty fast.

You're right, they are really deceptive. I always thought they were pretty fast too. For reference...

Nair: frames 7,12,17,22
Fair: frames 10-11 clean, 12-25 late
Bair: frames 10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22. Also has a landing hit similar to Falco's Fair, last for 2 frames.
Uair: frames 6-12, 20-22
Dair: frames 12-13 spike, 14-38. Has landing hit lasting the same as Bair.

Furret24 was definitely correct in the fact that their long lasting hitboxes are their real boon. You might be able to hit someone with the late hit of Fair off stage, then use that to jump into a second hit, the clean hit, and it's really easy to do. Though they aren't fast in start up, they aren't slow so to speak. It's like they aren't fast enough to be considered fast, but aren't really slow enough to be considered slow (IMO anyway). But regardless, they are really good aerials.