Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Nessimator]

Sorry to be that guy, but you can only move one person in each tier, although you can vote up or down one person in both tiers.

But there's 2 tiers at a time this time so if we're going 1 character a tier, then 2 votes can be made this time. If it were 1 tier then you'd put 1 vote.

 

[Wintermelon43]

But there's 2 tiers at a time this time so if we're going 1 character a tier, then 2 votes can be made this time. If it were 1 tier then you'd put 1 vote.

But the problem is, Jigglypuff and King Dedede are in the same tier.

 

[Nessimator]

But the problem is, Jigglypuff and King Dedede are in the same tier.

Crap, you're right! Ok I'll edit it, thanks.

 

[LeWall]

+1
-1
-1
-1
+1

 

[CleanOgre]

6:
7:

-
+

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

6.
7.
+1
-1

 

[ShadowGuy1]

+1
-1
-1
-1
+1

I dont mean to be THAT guy, but you can only vote up people in Tier 6 and 7, one in each tier, and you order them in the way you like

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

6:
7:

+ up a tier

 

[Vyrnx]

6
7

+
-

Wanted to move Ganon up but not before Swordfighter.

Also wanted to up vote Samus as a counter but tbh there are too many misconceptions about this character because of the Samus boards videos and it is a losing battle... This character actually has better results than all of the other characters here recently (except maybe Ganon and Mewtwo in Japan?)... We have been buffed recently and our meta is advancing far faster than the other low tiers, but unless Samus starts getting top 8 at nationals people will put her bottom 3. At this point I should just stop caring like Esam and other Samus players.

 

[Cheap Shot]

6:
7:

+ I really wanted to downvote Samus but I think Mewtwo deserves the nod to go up.
+ Sure, he has his flaws. I don't think these flaws give him bottom-tier potential, however.

 

[Bowserboy3]

People also may be interested in seeing this...

http://smashboards.com/threads/viab...ive-impressions.410551/page-281#post-20251376

It's a weighted average of character usage at tournaments (I think). I found it originally on Reddit (which includes the character icons. Here's a link to that - https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3osll9/results_based_tier_list/). On the Smashboards version, the post has a link to a document with all the data used if anyone is curious.

The reason I am posting this? Look at the B- tier...

The first few tiers on this are not too surprising. Marth supposedly being the most used out of the 5 FE characters... lets go!

 

[Wintermelon43]

I know that you are getting at with this quote, but a few of those are poor examples, because some of those "hate bias" characters, like Luigi, Wario, and Villager are pretty decent in their places. Some of those "main bias" characters are pretty finely placed. Most notably Marth and Falco. These two are two very sold characters.

I do agree with most the rest though. Ike's placement is pathetic, DK does not deserve to be that high up (especially when he loses to characters like Samus, Luigi and Toon Link for example, all of which are lower down. Link higher than Toon Link is a joke. Shulk is good if the player can consistently Monado Art Cancel, but that alone doesn't fix his laggy smashes and aerials.[/QUOTE

Marth really isn't that good, he has great range and KO Power, but many flaws too. Falco also is very slow, and his blaster isn't as good. And you can also shield all of his specials pretty much. And both his and Fox's recovery aren't the best. I don't think Falco can be that high.

 

[Smash4Player64]

+1 (Plz people, use your common sense before voting. Or else I shall go to Target and buy some for you. Although, if they DID sell common sense, the shelves would be full.)

+1 too

 

[Bowserboy3]

Marth really isn't that good, he has great range and KO Power, but many flaws too. Falco also is very slow, and his blaster isn't as good. And you can also shield all of his specials pretty much. And both his and Fox's recovery aren't the best. I don't think Falco can be that high.

I can drum up a solid arguement for Marth, but Falco not so much, but I really think Falco is overlooked. He still has very good aerial combos, Nair being an excellent move. Uair to Dair is good, which can also lead into potential follow ups. Fair is also a good combo string move and reliable at killing off stage, and thanks to his high jumps and slightly increased Fire Bird distance, he gets back onstage pretty decently. Dthrow is good at low percents. And though it may be easy to shield Falco's specials, why would he be using them all the time besides the occasional blaster? I see no reason to use Fire Bird on stage as an attack, and if Falco activates Falco Phantasm immediately after he jumps (so that it is counted mid air), its safer as it has less lag, and tougher to punish. Though Falco tends to make the opponent come to him in terms of approaches, so I could consider that a downside. I don't know whether he deserves to be that high up (like Marth beats Falco IMO from experience), maybe a couple of spaces down, but like I say, I don't use Falco, so I can't argue a solid point.

Marth on the other hand, I do use, and is overlooked, though many people consider him a solid character these days. I will say that though he has been buffed since vanilla Smash 4, he still could do with for example more throw follow ups, but he still has a great set of aerials, great off stage game, good spacing game (which is even more important now), and no matter what people say, he has the threat factor, of being able to kill extremely early. Marth heavily benefits from techniques such as Extended Dash Dancing, that I see nobody using with him other than real Marth players in tournaments. I don't think Marth deserves to be much higher at this point in time, maybe a couple of spaces (but he deserves to be at least in Roy's tier), but I don't think he deserves to be any lower at all.

Alternatively, I don't think it's right that the gap between Marth and Lucina is that large. Lucina should only be about 3 or 4 spaces behind Marth. The differences between them are more noticeable than Pit/Dark Pit for example, but it's not that drastic.

Also, it seems Marth is the most used out of the Fire Emblem characters in tournaments, so I look forward to seeing developments with him.

 

[Wintermelon43]

*Three Ikes make it into top 32 at The Big House 5*

*Marth is the most used Fire Emblem character in Smash 4!*

 

[Bowserboy3]

*Three Ikes make it into top 32 at The Big House 5*

*Marth is the most used Fire Emblem character in Smash 4!*

http://smashboards.com/threads/viab...ive-impressions.410551/page-281#post-20251376

This was taken after Big House 5. Check the Google Document in that post...

Alternatively, there is a version of that on Reddit which uses the character icons, its easier on the eyes. The first link shows you data and such though, so take your pick - https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3osll9/results_based_tier_list/

Albeit, Marth and Ike are like 2 spaces away from each other, but that says something about what players think of them in comparison to the other FE characters. It's good for both of them.

 

[IPoit]

6:

7:

+1
-1

 

[Deleted member]

The reason Ganon is so low I feel is that literally all he has going for him is that he's decent at punishing and has attacks that hit like trucks. There's a reason why he's such a popular choice in low-to-mid level play, but is nowhere to be found in nationals or anywhere where top-level play is common. He can't traverse the stage well without relying on Wizard's Foot, has one of the worst recoveries in the game, lacks any sort of good range, is combo food, I could go on. Having a good punish game doesn't matter in an environment where players are very rarely bound to slip up and take advantage of Ganon's quite serious flaws.

 

[Routa]

Seeing people voting Mii Gunner and Brawler above Swordfighter makes me cry. Swordfighter is the only one who has somewhat bare able moves when using 1111 Guest Miis. Brawler looses all his combos when he is not S/S size and most reliable KO option (Helicopter Kick). Gunner is laggy and has very poor mobility as Guest sized. Also some of his 1111 moves are lacklusters. Mii Swordfighter keeps most some of the combos he has when being small. Overall Swordfighter is the most viable ones when only 1111 Guest size is allowed. This should be common knowledge just like Sheik being overall the best character. Call me biased, but ask from any Mii main and you will find that most of us agree with this statement.

 

[scapemaster]

6:
7:
+1
-1

 

[Bowserboy3]

6:
7:
+1
-1

What is your reasoning on putting Samus at the bottom? Samus has a combo game, great suitability, zoning, shield breaking options (one which shatters full shields) and beats all the 3 heavyweights here easily. Samus also has great matchups higher up against characters like DK, Luigi, Peach etc. I just want to know why you think the characters above her deserve to be above her. The only one I could see maybe being better than Samus is Mewtwo, but that's open for debate anyway as it depends on where you are in the world (Japanese regard him highly).

 

[Xandercosm]

What is your reasoning on putting Samus at the bottom? Samus has a combo game, great suitability, zoning, shield breaking options (one which shatters full shields) and beats all the 3 heavyweights here easily. Samus also has great matchups higher up against characters like DK, Luigi, Peach etc. I just want to know why you think the characters above her deserve to be above her. The only one I could see maybe being better than Samus is Mewtwo, but that's open for debate anyway as it depends on where you are in the world (Japanese regard him highly).

lol samus suks m8

But really, you need to get over Samus. She's a broken character.

 

[Bowserboy3]

lol samus suks m8

But really, you need to get over Samus. She's a broken character.

Broken in what way exactly? A few hard to get your head around moves? People aught to learn to play a character before stating they are "broken". And about "you need to get over Samus", I could understand that remark if I was trying to make out she was like some godly undiscovered high tier character... i'm not. I'm clearly trying to get the point across to people that Samus is no where near as bad as people seem to make out. Yes, still among the bottom characters, but it's absurd that people think she is the worst character. People really need to abandon that stigma with her.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Screw Attack can actually kill this time, I like that about Samus. Other than this, she's probably worse than ever. Even challenging 64 and Brawl's Samus..

Anyway, my rankings:

6:
7:

 

[scapemaster]

What is your reasoning on putting Samus at the bottom? Samus has a combo game, great suitability, zoning, shield breaking options (one which shatters full shields) and beats all the 3 heavyweights here easily. Samus also has great matchups higher up against characters like DK, Luigi, Peach etc. I just want to know why you think the characters above her deserve to be above her. The only one I could see maybe being better than Samus is Mewtwo, but that's open for debate anyway as it depends on where you are in the world (Japanese regard him highly).

I simply haven't seen anything promising for Samus yet. I know of a Mii Gunner that I can't beat, and Swordfighter has been buffed a bit. Honestly, that bottom tier can be arranged in any way and I wouldn't really argue.

 

[Xandercosm]

I simply haven't seen anything promising for Samus yet. I know of a Mii Gunner that I can't beat, and Swordfighter has been buffed a bit. Honestly, that bottom tier can be arranged in any way and I wouldn't really argue.

Yeah, she really has nothing going for her.

 

[Ocarina Stealer]

+1 Lucina
+1 Marth
+1 Roy
-1 Mario
-1 Meta Knight

 

[Cyclone_]

Exactly what confirmed combos does Palutena have? Not picking fault (yet, I need to be enlightened before I attempt to), just need to know.

down throw to forward air, down throw to up air, and up throw to up air at low % all work for me they may not be confirms but i hit them almost every time unless di'd properly.

 

[Cyclone_]

That doesn't help if you go off by one player. Example, without Nairo or ESAM would be instantly dragged down to high tier(now that I think of it, they're probably the only ones to use these characters at big tournaments). Ike's only high level player that alot of people know is Ryo(probably the best one to). With a tier list, a character like,,or even needs to be ranked by amount of high level players using that character, their MUs, strengths/weaknesses, and if they can be used at a tournament and win with that character. has won tournaments before(mostly from Nairo and Earth)and got top 32 at Big House(from Pink Fresh). If you go through a whole big tournament(no matter where it's at)with one character like ,,, and get a high placing, then(besides the fact the player's good), that character deserves to be placed high(unless you're playing someone like orthe whole tournament,then most likely you won't make it that far). I haven't seen anmain play like that, so until I do, he should be at the very bottom high tier to me at best(same placing i have with ,,, and ).

Nothing you are saying is wrong but 3 's got top 32 at TBH5. it just proves that with a skilled hand he can become a super strong force to be reckoned with.

 

[DarkK]

What is your reasoning on putting Samus at the bottom? Samus has a combo game, great suitability, zoning, shield breaking options (one which shatters full shields) and beats all the 3 heavyweights here easily. Samus also has great matchups higher up against characters like DK, Luigi, Peach etc. I just want to know why you think the characters above her deserve to be above her. The only one I could see maybe being better than Samus is Mewtwo, but that's open for debate anyway as it depends on where you are in the world (Japanese regard him highly).

Like Wintermelon with in the past, you have to stop questioning people's votes.

 

[Nessimator]

+1 (Plz people, use your common sense before voting. Or else I shall go to Target and buy some for you. Although, if they DID sell common sense, the shelves would be full.)

+1 too

My common sense says Jiggs isn't good, especially compared to the others. Her frame data isn't good enough for tier 5 at all with everything seeming to have more start-up and end-lag than a character of her weight should have, and she has too many awful match-ups to be as good as you seem to think. Sure she can up-tilt 2-3 times into an aerial at 0% but that's basically it for combos. She has power with back-air and rest, yet not the speed or defense to go with it like most other hard hitting characters. She's not incapable, no character is useless, but there certainly are bad ones.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nothing you are saying is wrong but 3 's got top 32 at TBH5. it just proves that with a skilled hand he can become a super strong force to be reckoned with.

With that, it helps him...but if he starts winning some tourneys(obviously not the For Glory one), then he can be considered.

 

[Routa]

If I remember correctly 2 of the top Ike players dislike traveling, which is main reason why we haven't seen them in many major tournaments.

Also about the voting thing... You should reason your vote in my opinion. Also when it comes talking about characters we will have to compare to rest of the characters. For example... Samus might have good combos, but when compared to characters like TL, Diddy, Mario, Sheik or even DK... Well they are lackluster. Or Doc has amazing edgeguarding game, but when compared to Wario, Ike, Mii Swordfighter, Mr G&W etc... Well it is only good, not great. Maybe not the best example, but I hope you get what I mean.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

6:
7:
+1
+1

 

[Vyrnx]

Also about the voting thing... You should reason your vote in my opinion. Also when it comes talking about characters we will have to compare to rest of the characters. For example... Samus might have good combos, but when compared to characters like TL, Diddy, Mario, Sheik or even DK... Well they are lackluster. Or Doc has amazing edgeguarding game, but when compared to Wario, Ike, Mii Swordfighter, Mr G&W etc... Well it is only good, not great. Maybe not the best example, but I hope you get what I mean.

Actually Samus has some of the most damaging true combos of any character in the game (and they aren't hard combos that can only be done in training mode) with multiple ways to start them. She has good combos that do 20-30 damage at all percents, past percents where she gets some of her 40-50 damage ones. She has zero death combos with uair on platform stages as well. They're only lackluster when compared to ZSS and MK's death combos. They're not as good as Mario's overall. But as for the rest of the cast (especially Diddy since his nerfs a long time ago), Samus's combos are far better.

Idc if you downvote Samus, that's alright. She can be at the bottom at this point, it won't bother me anymore. She has legitimate problems for sure. Her combos though aren't really average or lackluster, they're really dang good.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Samus isn't the best but she isn't the worst either. She's capable of some really nasty combos and setups when the opportunities arise.

It seems people just can't give credit where it's due now a days.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Like Wintermelon with in the past, you have to stop questioning people's votes.

Fair enough, but I will question people who think Samus is the worst character in the game, because it is entirely not true. I have said it before, I will say it again, and will continue to say it. Samus is not a great character, still low on the tier list, but when she has all the tools to beat Bowser, Ganon and Dedede easily, has lots of combos that can do upwards of 30%, (and combos that actually include more than one throw into one attack like Palutena/Zelda/Jigglypuff), shield breaking ability (that only the heavyweights around her really have) and is quite clearly better than 1111 Guest Gunner, I find it hard to believe how people can put her at the bottom. To extend on what Rinku リンク said about giving credit, people are quick to point out faults, but ignore the positives.

down throw to forward air, down throw to up air, and up throw to up air at low % all work for me they may not be confirms but i hit them almost every time unless di'd properly.

Right, all I knew about was Dthrow to Fair really, so its cool she can do a bit more than that. However, it is just really one throw into one attack, which most characters around her can do. For example, Ganon Dthrow to Nair/Uair. Zelda Dthrow to Nair into potential Bair. Dedede Dthrow to Fair. Samus Dthrow or Dash Attack to Uair, Uair, Screw, or Dthrow/Dash Attack, to Uair, Charge Shot, or Dthrow/Dash Attack to Uair, Bair, Bair or Reverse Charge Shot. I'm not saying that you can't put Palutena above the rest, but saying that confirmed combo's makes her better than the others is kinda weak, especially when hers do about 14% -17%, where as Ganon can get 20+% off of two moves, and Samus can get upwards of 35% on her confirmed combos.

I do like Palutena's Dash Attack though, I like how it gets invincibility frames, that's useful in situations.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I simply haven't seen anything promising for Samus yet. I know of a Mii Gunner that I can't beat, and Swordfighter has been buffed a bit. Honestly, that bottom tier can be arranged in any way and I wouldn't really argue.

Look for a player called Depth if you want some to see some good Samus play, he's using her and getting high up MVG's Tournaments. You can also see good Ikes there too, good for reference when people say Ike isn't that good.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Fair enough, but I will question people who think Samus is the worst character in the game, because it is entirely not true. I have said it before, I will say it again, and will continue to say it. Samus is not a great character, still low on the tier list, but when she has all the tools to beat Bowser, Ganon and Dedede easily, has lots of combos that can do upwards of 30%, (and combos that actually include more than one throw into one attack like Palutena/Zelda/Jigglypuff), shield breaking ability (that only the heavyweights around her really have) and is quite clearly better than 1111 Guest Gunner, I find it hard to believe how people can put her at the bottom. To extend on what Rinku リンク said about giving credit, people are quick to point out faults, but ignore the positives.


Right, all I knew about was Dthrow to Fair really, so its cool she can do a bit more than that. However, it is just really one throw into one attack, which most characters around her can do. For example, Ganon Dthrow to Nair/Uair. Zelda Dthrow to Nair into potential Bair. Dedede Dthrow to Fair. Samus Dthrow or Dash Attack to Uair, Uair, Screw, or Dthrow/Dash Attack, to Uair, Charge Shot, or Dthrow/Dash Attack to Uair, Bair, Bair or Reverse Charge Shot. I'm not saying that you can't put Palutena above the rest, but saying that confirmed combo's makes her better than the others is kinda weak, especially when hers do about 14% -17%, where as Ganon can get 20+% off of two moves, and Samus can get upwards of 35% on her confirmed combos.

I do like Palutena's Dash Attack though, I like how it gets invincibility frames, that's useful in situations.

Early WinterMelon thought kirby was top tier and questioned everyone who downvoted him. Don't question votes about one specific character all the time. The only reason i ask Poit?(I think thats the name lol), why he/she kept on upvoting wft was because I wanted to see it from the mind of a wft and what they think about the character. I did not question the other wii fit +1 ers, but I just entered the discussion of I think it was JigglyPuff. I know she got buffs, but I still thnk she should be the lbottom 4 atleast, but i did not waste my votes for that. Sorry if this sound kinda rude.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Early WinterMelon thought kirby was top tier and questioned everyone who downvoted him. Don't question votes about one specific character all the time. The only reason i ask Poit?(I think thats the name lol), why he/she kept on upvoting wft was because I wanted to see it from the mind of a wft and what they think about the character. I did not question the other wii fit +1 ers, but I just entered the discussion of I think it was JigglyPuff. I know she got buffs, but I still thnk she should be the lbottom 4 atleast, but i did not waste my votes for that. Sorry if this sound kinda rude.

Sorry, I don't quite understand your wording:') But regardless, I don't see what the problem is. I am not trying to say Samus is top tier (ha, I wish). I'm just trying to help people become more knowledgeable on the character. I'm not trying to get people to change their votes or move their tier list placements around, but I merely want to see what peoples opinion on Samus is, and then as I play Samus, I can let them know exactly what she can do.