Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Mazdamaxsti]

Absolutely not. Doc deserves his place, if not a slightly higher one. Don't ride the oblivious bandwagon of "Doc is a worse Mario".

but he is?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

but he is?

He's still good in a way

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

He's not a "worse Mario", he's a wholly different character that only somewhat resembles both Mario and Luigi. He has a much different playstyle, and I do agree that if you play him like you would play Mario, he would do much worse, but that's why you play him differently. I agree that he's worse than the other Mario Bros, but he's a tad bit too low at the moment, and voting him down is only hurting his cause. He isn't bad (unlike what some pros think...), he's just different.

 

[atreyujames]

Unlike alot of the other characters, Palutena's customs aren't broken and make her aloft better(makes her a solid mid tier character).

Bowser and Ganondorf's customs aren't broken and make a low tier character better. Why not include them? "Because they are free and not broken" doesn't mean that it isn't still unfair to the rest of the cast that would also appreciate customs.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Bowser and Ganondorf's customs aren't broken and make a low tier character better. Why not include them? "Because they are free and not broken" doesn't mean that it isn't still unfair to the rest of the cast that would also appreciate customs.

I never said Bowser or Ganon have broken customs(I don't even use their customs at all). All I'm saying is that most characters have broken customs(Villager and Sonic at EVO for example). Besides, Palutena was pretty much made to be the face of custom moves(Miis won't count because they can be anyone, and aren't Sakurai's wife).

 

[Wintermelon43]

I never said Bowser or Ganon have broken customs(I don't even use their customs at all). All I'm saying is that most characters have broken customs(Villager and Sonic at EVO for example). Besides, Palutena was pretty much made to be the face of custom moves(Miis won't count because they can be anyone, and aren't Sakurai's wife).

This post makes me wanna cry.

 

[Routa]

He isn't bad (unlike what some pros think...), he's just different.

Yeah...

...most characters have broken customs...

He he hee... You can't be serious right? You are? Oh...
Could you name some "broken" customs other than Wind Dong? Also could tell why they are broken?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

This post makes me wanna cry.

Then cry...cry over Jigglypuff not being loved by all or something

Routa Stomp, that move was one of the reasons why customs were banned.

 

[Mo433]

+1
4 tiers
1:Top Tier
2:High Tier
3:Mid tier
4:Low tier

 

[BlazGreen]

Bowser and Ganondorf's customs aren't broken and make a low tier character better. Why not include them? "Because they are free and not broken" doesn't mean that it isn't still unfair to the rest of the cast that would also appreciate customs.

It's not unfair at all. Miis and Palutena were clearly treated differently from the outset and customs were heavily pushed in their reveal trailers. They're the only characters in the game that have completely different moves for their customs instead of altered regular specials. The difference is obvious.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It's not unfair at all. Miis and Palutena were clearly treated differently from the outset and customs were heavily pushed in their reveal trailers. They're the only characters in the game that have completely different moves for their customs instead of altered regular specials. The difference is obvious.

Why is it that you're the only one who gets it?

 

[Routa]

Routa Stomp, that move was one of the reasons why customs were banned.

A strong custom indeed, but I would not call it "broken". May I ask what makes it "broken"? As far as I know it does not ignore neutral game or lead into "0 to death". Calling something broken and not reasoning at all is not the way to go when discussing about customs. We aren't in Reddit after all.

 

[Nessimator]

I say 7 tiers
S A+ A- B+ B- C D

and +1 because I think he's definitely at least one tier higher than Falco, and should be in a similar spot to DK but still I think ROB is probably better than him too.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

A strong custom indeed, but I would not call it "broken". May I ask what makes it "broken"? As far as I know it does not ignore neutral game or lead into "0 to death". Calling something broken and not reasoning at all is not the way to go when discussing about customs. We aren't in Reddit after all.

A move that's unfair and unreasonable to others...or just Meta Knight in Brawl.

A move that can both bury and spike is kinda over the top for a custom.

If you wanna see a 0 to death move, Mario vs Sonic at Paragon this year

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

He's not a "worse Mario", he's a wholly different character that only somewhat resembles both Mario and Luigi. He has a much different playstyle, and I do agree that if you play him like you would play Mario, he would do much worse, but that's why you play him differently. I agree that he's worse than the other Mario Bros, but he's a tad bit too low at the moment, and voting him down is only hurting his cause. He isn't bad (unlike what some pros think...), he's just different.

Being different doesn't make you exempt from being bad. Doc's attacks do more damage, but Mario can string his less-damaging moves together (aka he can deal more percent), Doc has better kill moves but Doc is slow, while Mari can still kill AND his speed helps him with killing (aka better killing). Doc doesn't have a better punish game either, since Mario gets more damage off of a throw and a combo move.

Doctor Mario is mario, except slower, a worse recovery, and more damaging moves (but not as good damaging output). If you wanna call him not a worse Dr. Mario, he is still bad. He can't go offstage, he can't string moves together, his kill moves are easy to avoid, he is slow and not threatening, and the list goes on. Dr. Mario is not a good character (not bottom tier, but just not good).

A move that's unfair and unreasonable to others...or just Meta Knight in Brawl.

A move that can both bury and spike is kinda over the top for a custom.

If you wanna see a 0 to death move, Mario vs Sonic at Paragon this year

DK's up-b can't bury you...

Also, at the very top of the stage, a lot of things will kill early. ZSS's up-b, Ness's up-b hit, so many things.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

DK's up-b can't bury you...

Also, at the very top of the stage, a lot of things will kill early. ZSS's up-b, Ness's up-b hit, so many things.

But DK's up b can't spike you...

And last time I checked, those other recoveries don't ko at 0%. Early yes, but not 0...34% at best.

 

[Routa]

But DK's up b can't spike you...

And last time I checked, those other recoveries don't ko at 0%. Early yes, but not 0...34% at best.

Ever heard of shielding? But seriously many seem to forget that most of the "OP" or "broken" custom moves get kinda countered by shielding. Also you can Up-B and Nair out of it with some of the characters (or with random moves like Wario's Chomp). These "broken" customs aren't unbeatable. It is just that people don't want to learn how to counter them.

 

[Zionaze]

It kind of can. Similar to luigis cyclone gimp. And those kills have to meet a certain condition to be able to kill at 0. If you see them fishing for it and you die to it then you're bad

 

[Bowserboy3]

I said to myself before posting this, "I can see Ike is probably going down already, and I do want to see Roy, Marth and Lucina all move up too". I can see Roy has a +1 vote already, so I am going to choose Marth as my vote.

My Vote:
+1
7 Tiers

Though I do think Marth and Lucina should be very close to eachother, I am voting Marth for now. If anybody wants to vote Lucina up for me, I'll love you forever, k thanks.

 

[Robertos0511]

+1
6 tiers

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ever heard of shielding? But seriously many seem to forget that most of the "OP" or "broken" custom moves get kinda countered by shielding. Also you can Up-B and Nair out of it with some of the characters (or with random moves like Wario's Chomp). These "broken" customs aren't unbeatable. It is just that people don't want to learn how to counter them.

You do know not everything needs to be shielded right? Shields can break easy compared to a reflector or anything similar. You also can't up b or nair out of every move if it has super armor or invincibility.

 

[monzer]

Combine the first two tiers and the last two, as well as splitting up the 4th tier, bringing the upper ones in high and the Lower ones in mid.

So the result would be 4 tiers top, high, mid, bottom.

+
Not that bad post patch, all he lost was an overpowered kill confirm. Maybe he's high tier but definitely not upper mid.

 

[Cyclone_]

Tiers: 7
+ Because there are too many people saying that he should be lower

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Tiers: 7
+ Because there are too many people saying that he should be lower

Well he shouldn't be higher than Pit, Meta Knight, Ryu, or everyone else in tier 3 and half of 4.

 

[MarioMeteor]

He's not a "worse Mario", he's a wholly different character that only somewhat resembles both Mario and Luigi. He has a much different playstyle, and I do agree that if you play him like you would play Mario, he would do much worse, but that's why you play him differently. I agree that he's worse than the other Mario Bros, but he's a tad bit too low at the moment, and voting him down is only hurting his cause. He isn't bad (unlike what some pros think...), he's just different.

As it stands now I'd say he's better than Luigi.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

As it stands now I'd say he's better than Luigi.

I wouldn't go that far...

 

[Deleted member]

Even though I think Doc is a legitimately good character, there's no way he's better than Luigi. He has better combos than Luigi I'll agree (especially with him having a great shorthop), but his offstage game and recovery are near abysmal. Luigi as it stands has one of the best recoveries in the game and even then has new combos out of down throw to replace his previous ones.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Even though I think Doc is a legitimately good character, there's no way he's better than Luigi. He has better combos than Luigi I'll agree, but his offstage game and recovery are near abysmal. Luigi as it stands has one of the best recoveries in the game and even then has new combos out of down throw to replace his previous ones.

Luigi has situationally one of the best recoveries in the game, as in nobody's going to stop him from going straight up, but that's about it. Other than that he's a sitting duck offstage, and if you hit him out of his double jump, he's done for, finished, finito. Aside from mobility and better fashion sense, Luigi really has nothing over Doc any more.

 

[DarkK]

As it stands now I'd say he's better than Luigi.

Luigi lost most of his combos, or at the very least they only work once at low percentages, but I wouldn't say Doc is better than him. Doc now has an easier time dealing with him, since Luigi no longer can simply grab you and win, but Luigi can still deal quite a punch. I heard that the MU was 60:40 favoring Luigi, but perhaps it might be 55:45, or even 50:50 now (like the MU against Mario)

As for the rest of the cast....I dunno. Doc's chances have improved thanks to the new shieldstun while Luigi's have worsened thanks to his nerfs, but I don't think it's enough to move Doc up significantly nor move Luigi down very significantly. I'd say Doc is tier 5/mid tier and Luigi is the top of tier 3, or the last character from tier 2. He's not top tier anymore, that's for sure.

 

[Dcas]

Even though I think Doc is a legitimately good character, there's no way he's better than Luigi. He has better combos than Luigi I'll agree (especially with him having a great shorthop), but his offstage game and recovery are near abysmal. Luigi as it stands has one of the best recoveries in the game and even then has new combos out of down throw to replace his previous ones.

Yes, youve got a point. Dr is a good character, different playtstyle than mario sure but his offstage game is abysmal, like literally close to little mac, that alone is a reason for him not to be high enough.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Luigi lost most of his combos, or at the very least they only work once at low percentages, but I wouldn't say Doc is better than him. Doc now has an easier time dealing with him, since Luigi no longer can simply grab you and win, but Luigi can still deal quite a punch. I heard that the MU was 60:40 favoring Luigi, but perhaps it might be 55:45, or even 50:50 now (like the MU against Mario)

As for the rest of the cast....I dunno. Doc's chances have improved thanks to the new shieldstun while Luigi's have worsened thanks to his nerfs, but I don't think it's enough to move Doc up significantly nor move Luigi down very significantly. I'd say Doc is tier 5/mid tier and Luigi is the top of tier 3, or the last character from tier 2. He's not top tier anymore, that's for sure.

He never was top tier. People blew Luigi way out of proportion, there were always greater threats than him around, and whoever told you that Doc/Luigi was 40/60 is a fool. Luigi, in addition to losing like 90% of his combo game, as also lost his ability to KO reliably. His only saving grace is his amazing frame data, which Doc shares and in some cases, beats. Luigi is faster and more agile, but Doc combos better and KOs easier. The shield mechanics only further the gap, though none of them are affected by it very heavily. I just don't see any major advantages Luigi has over Doc any more, again, except for the fashion.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

As it stands now I'd say he's better than Luigi.

Nope. No way. Luigi is still better at killing, still has good combos (just not braindead ones), still has better frame data, still has a better recovery. Luigi might not be top tier but there is no way in the world he is worse than doc.

 

[DMWN]

Lucas below Pit? I leave for two weeks and this is what I come back to?!

+ because he's like Ike in a way--good, but not many know of what he's capable of. His down throw leaves him with so many different options to help him adapt to his current situation.

Four tiers:
Ideal (Sheik, Mario, Ness)
Viable (Ike, Pit, Lucas, R.O.B., Lucario, etc.)
Viable (with secondaries) (Little Mac, Link, Marth)
Niche use (the likes of Mewtwo reside here)

 

[phire_]

There should be 5 tiers: S, A, B, C, and D

+ (not really seeing how Roy is this low; he seems to have good combo and kill potential)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Lucas below Pit? I leave for two weeks and this is what I come back to?!

+ because he's like Ike in a way--good, but not many know of what he's capable of. His down throw leaves him with so many different options to help him adapt to his current situation.

Four tiers:
Ideal (Sheik, Mario, Ness)
Viable (Ike, Pit, Lucas, R.O.B., Lucario, etc.)
Viable (with secondaries) (Little Mac, Link, Marth)
Niche use (the likes of Mewtwo reside here)

Pit has always been better than Lucas, even in Brawl it's been this way. Plus, Pit really is better than both Ike and Lucas, don't know why Ike's in tier 2.

 

[DarkK]

Yes, youve got a point. Dr is a good character, different playtstyle than mario sure but his offstage game is abysmal, like literally close to little mac, that alone is a reason for him not to be high enough.

I wouldn't say that his offstage game was abysmal, perhaps his edgeguarding ability is, but his air game is great. Most of his combos are in the air actually, so I wouldn't go that far.

 

[DarkK]

He never was top tier. People blew Luigi way out of proportion, there were always greater threats than him around, and whoever told you that Doc/Luigi was 40/60 is a fool. Luigi, in addition to losing like 90% of his combo game, as also lost his ability to KO reliably. His only saving grace is his amazing frame data, which Doc shares and in some cases, beats. Luigi is faster and more agile, but Doc combos better and KOs easier. The shield mechanics only further the gap, though none of them are affected by it very heavily. I just don't see any major advantages Luigi has over Doc any more, again, except for the fashion.

How was the MU between Doc and Luigi, then?

I have 2 friends who are (or were) Luigi mains. One of them struggles hard and switched to Doc (funny enough) while keeping Luigi for fun, while the other kind of cried that Luigi has been ruined, voted on the Smash Ballot for "pre-patch Luigi" and switched to Lucario. Point here is that Luigi struggles hard at the moment to combo, but that must be because people haven't tried patched Luigi enough. Like it happened with Diddy, most people will drop Luigi because he's no longer the most brain-dead character to play (that kinda goes to )

What would you rank Luigi now? I rank him as high tier, while I rank Doc as mid, perhaps even mid-high tier.

 

[Routa]

I wouldn't say that his offstage game was abysmal, perhaps his edgeguarding ability is, but his air game is great. Most of his combos are in the air actually, so I wouldn't go that far.

Maybe not abysmal, but very risky I would say. He has very nice combo game at low %, but once your foes % are over 100%... Well no more combos for you. He lacks the speed to get follow ups after some %. Also even tho he kinda kills early he has to fish for it or get a hard read.

 

[monzer]

How was the MU between Doc and Luigi, then?

I have 2 friends who are (or were) Luigi mains. One of them struggles hard and switched to Doc (funny enough) while keeping Luigi for fun, while the other kind of cried that Luigi has been ruined, voted on the Smash Ballot for "pre-patch Luigi" and switched to Lucario. Point here is that Luigi struggles hard at the moment to combo, but that must be because people haven't tried patched Luigi enough. Like it happened with Diddy, most people will drop Luigi because he's no longer the most brain-dead character to play (that kinda goes to )

What would you rank Luigi now? I rank him as high tier, while I rank Doc as mid, perhaps even mid-high tier.

Luigi actually does still have an equall combo game to old Luigi, just no kill combos. So he's still good at racking up damage. People just need to learn the new combos. I would put him at lower top around where Yoshi is, or upper high tier.

Also weak Nuetrall air combos into down b for a kill confirm. I'm not sure how viable it is but if players can start landing it regularly this would bring Luogi up on the tier list by a lot.

Also, Doc is definitely mid tier.

I think we should also just stop calling characters who are easy to pick up braindead, I think it's unhealthy for the community.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

7 tiers

Fox -1