Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Smash4Player64]

+1
+1
-1

 

[_gold_]

People are STILL voting Jigglypuff up! This is gorgeous! At this rate, she'll be too high. Poor Samus, though. Can't help but feel sorry for her. Is she really that bad?

Yes, in most cases. But look on the bright side. Maybe all this attention she's getting will entitle her for a few buffs next patch.

 

[PokÉmblem]

-1 Wario
+1 DeDeDe
+1 Villager

 

[Foster J.]

+1
+1
+1 - Come on, the argument for the character needing the player is valid, but Trela is taking names proving it's not the worst character in the game

 

[Wintermelon43]

Am I the only one that thinks Jigglypuff's too Low?

 

[dbwithlemon]

+1
+1
+1

 

[dbwithlemon]

+1 - Come on, the argument for the character needing the player is valid, but Trela is taking names proving it's not the worst character in the game

Trela is doing the work, eventually people will see how good is.
For reference.

 

[Kasai]

+1
+1
+1

 

[Project_B]

Sonic -1
Pikachu +1
Yoshi -1

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

+1
-1

 

[Fuerzo]

Jigglypuff is too high TBH. While nowhere near to the same extent as Brawl, she suffers from this game's floatier physics and the strong defensive options in this game compared to Melee. Probably a bottom 10-15 character.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Jigglypuff is too high TBH. While nowhere near to the same extent as Brawl, she suffers from this game's floatier physics and the strong defensive options in this game compared to Melee. Probably a bottom 10-15 character.

Use her.

 

[Fuerzo]

Use her.

I have a pocket Jiggly, she's fun to use but at this point she's a mediocre character. The issue isn't her moveset or properties itself, it's the physics of Smash 4 that harm her just like they made her bottom tier in Brawl.

 

[MrMFC]

That's so true on the Kirby part. He has top 10 potentntial and IMO will end up that high by 3-4 years. Jigglypuff will also probablybe top 15. Both of them's only problems is lack of representation showing off their true potentntial. Serlynder or whatever and Hungreybox don't go to many tournaments, and Mikekirby's on a vacation for the rest of Augest

He hasn't top 10 potential, you overestimate him. Kirby's lacking approach options, is being punished too easily and has trouble getting the kill. Also he has bad MU's against Sonic, Pikachu and Yoshi too. Kirby is clearly not top 10 dude.



Anyways:
+1
+1

 

[John12346]

With this current list, I would have to say...

-1
/ -1
-1

Also, three things:
- You should really swap Dark Pit and Pit's positions on the list. Pit is objectively a better character than Dark Pit in every difference they have, with his Upperdash Arm killing way earlier than Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm, and his FTilt doing way more damage and knockback than Dark Pit's. In addition, even though Dark Pit's arrows do a scant more damage, Pit's have way more utility in their curvability which realistically counteracts the damage differential between the two.
- For the Mii Fighters, are we allowing all of their Specials to be in use, or just 1111? If it's the latter, that's... disappointing.
- Just to confirm, these votes are to move a character a full TIER placing up or down, correct? Because that's how I voted. If that's wrong then disregard these votes alright? But still answer this question so I know for next time!

 

[misterOWAIN33]

+1
+1
-1

 

[_gold_]

For the Mii Fighters, are we allowing all of their Specials to be in use, or just 1111? If it's the latter, that's... disappointing.

I believe it's just based off their default moves

 

[Wintermelon43]

He hasn't top 10 potential, you overestimate him. Kirby's lacking approach options, is being punished too easily and has trouble getting the kill. Also he has bad MU's against Sonic, Pikachu and Yoshi too. Kirby is clearly not top 10 dude.



Anyways:
+1
+1

And, you realize, I'm referring to 3-4 years of time, when the metagame is complety differant and new things have been discovered?

 

[_gold_]

And, you realize, I'm referring to 3-4 years of time, when the metagame is complety differant and new things have been discovered?

Plus, with this installment in the series, we're consistently seeing patches which slightly change the metagame each time. Nothing significant, but there's always hope for any fighters.

 

[dbwithlemon]

With this current list, I would have to say...

- For the Mii Fighters, are we allowing all of their Specials to be in use, or just 1111? If it's the latter, that's... disappointing.!

I believe it's just based off their default moves

This is a great question for @ Browny though.

Mii's(unlike other characters including Palutena) have access to all their moves while customs are turned OFF.
This topic is already being discussed

Per the poll(I know polls aren't always reliable, but it does show a good subset of opinions). There is a large majority support for it.
None of the Mii's become OP(or even Top Tier) with customs, but they do become more viable.
EVO showed us that even with their full moveset, Miis won't dominate.

 

[RMF]

+1
+1
+1

 

[SpottedCerberus]

And, you realize, I'm referring to 3-4 years of time, when the metagame is complety differant and new things have been discovered?

So he'll be high tier in four years then? But that has little bearing on the tier list as it is.

 

[dbwithlemon]

So he'll be high tier in four years then? But that has little bearing on the tier list as it is.

@ Wintermelon43 doesn't agree that a tier list should be representative of the current meta, but should be what the characters ultimate potential is.

The problem with voting that way is that you can only ever know how things are now, not in the future. In 3-4 years, it's likely Kirby could be higher, but it's also possible we'll find some new tech where half the cast becomes hard counter to him and he becomes useless.

 

[hiramsthoughts]

Reference for everyone that keeps downvotin my MK upvotes

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Reference for everyone that keeps downvotin my MK upvotes

Honestly, ZeRo isn't the best reference. He said that Mewtwo's up-throw, the best and most reliable kill-throw in the game, wasn't that good. (Not as good as Sonic's, he said. Which is blatantly false.) He was one of the people who thought Roy was top 5. His advice for beating Luigi was: play a top-tier character. Then there was the time he said he would focus on Melee for a year after winning EVO. There's a lot more that I don't remember off of the top of my head.

Look, he's clearly and indisputably the best Smash 4 player right now, but he has a proven habit of just saying things without thinking.

 

[Zionaze]

Can everyone stop trying to influence others on how they vote. I personally don't agree with wintermelons idea of a tier list but thats my opinion and mine alone. Its a community tier list and if you don't agree with someones votes just keep it to yourself.

In the end the majority will decide the fate of these characters and the few oddballs won't make much of a difference.

 

[ofo1]

+1 marth
+1 zelda
+1 lucina

 

[NickRiddle]

Why do you think Kirby needs to go down? Just want to hear why Kirby's supposedly "low tier" from a really good smash player (In tournaments), not trying to be annoying just asking

Because I think Kirby is bad.
I'm not going to post any reasoning, because it will create an argument and I do not care nearly enough to start arguing back and forth.

 

[hiramsthoughts]

Can everyone stop trying to influence others on how they vote. I personally don't agree with wintermelons idea of a tier list but thats my opinion and mine alone. Its a community tier list and if you don't agree with someones votes just keep it to yourself.

In the end the majority will decide the fate of these characters and the few oddballs won't make much of a difference.

In that case it doesn't matter if we try to influece or not.

 

[JAZZ_]

-1
as much as I love She requires an extremely high skill level to use, shes so against the grain itll give you a rash. and when you do achieve decent mastery over her you dont even have a good match up with 50% of the cast.

 

[A-money2121]

+ (MK is perfect for the meta. Heh, get the joke? No? Ok, I'll leave...)
+ (I think she's top tier.)
+ (Trela has been giving Mii Swordfighter some great reputation. Hopefully people will begin realizing what good of a character it really is.)

 

[Deleted member 269706]

+
+
-

 

[aquaticpineapples]

+
+
-

 

[wedl!!]

-1
-1
-1

 

[Sonicninja115]

Mewtwo +1
Mii Swordfighter +1
Ryu +1

 

[Avokha]

+1
+1
+1

 

[Browny]

@ Wintermelon43 I've told you this before, no one has any obligation to explain their votes to you and you are literally questioning every single person voting Kirby down. I think your question to Nick was fair, but you don't need to question everyone, every time.

In future if you want to know the answer as to why someone voted Kirby down, here it is;

"Because I think he should be lower". There I've saved you a lot of effort, you should be thankful.

With this current list, I would have to say...

-1
/ -1
-1

Also, three things:
- You should really swap Dark Pit and Pit's positions on the list. Pit is objectively a better character than Dark Pit in every difference they have, with his Upperdash Arm killing way earlier than Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm, and his FTilt doing way more damage and knockback than Dark Pit's. In addition, even though Dark Pit's arrows do a scant more damage, Pit's have way more utility in their curvability which realistically counteracts the damage differential between the two.
- For the Mii Fighters, are we allowing all of their Specials to be in use, or just 1111? If it's the latter, that's... disappointing.
- Just to confirm, these votes are to move a character a full TIER placing up or down, correct? Because that's how I voted. If that's wrong then disregard these votes alright? But still answer this question so I know for next time!

If that is true about Pit > Dark pit, why would anyone use dark pit? Serious question I don't know much about the Pits but there must be some legitimate reason as to why Dark Pit is more popular outside of 2edgy4u

I'm watching the debate around Mii Fighters and I think it wont be long until they are allowed their specials. For now though, it is universally customs off.

Yep a whole tier up. When a character goes up they go to the bottom of the next tier and if they go down, they go to the top of that tier.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

@ Wintermelon43 I've told you this before, no one has any obligation to explain their votes to you and you are literally questioning every single person voting Kirby down. I think your question to Nick was fair, but you don't need to question everyone, every time.

In future if you want to know the answer as to why someone voted Kirby down, here it is;

"Because I think he should be lower". There I've saved you a lot of effort, you should be thankful.



If that is true about Pit > Dark pit, why would anyone use dark pit? Serious question I don't know much about the Pits but there must be some legitimate reason as to why Dark Pit is more popular outside of 2edgy4u

I'm watching the debate around Mii Fighters and I think it wont be long until they are allowed their specials. For now though, it is universally customs off.

Yep a whole tier up. When a character goes up they go to the bottom of the next tier and if they go down, they go to the top of that tier.

From what I understand, Nairo plays Dark Pit for aesthetic reasons. He considers them the same character. I guess his playstyle doesn't involve a lot of arrow sniping?

But yeah, Pit is undeniably better. His arrows have far more range and maneuverability. His side-b pops opponents up in the air for juggles. (Kills better off the top too, which is super important in this game.) His f-tilt is waaay stronger. I don't know how big the difference between the characters is, but it's clear. (They're still in the same tier, of course.)

 

[Bowserboy3]

After months of lurking about, I finally decided to create an account. Been wanting to voice my thoughts on this for a while, so here we go...


+1 : Samus is a very underrated character. Unfortunately, she does have issues (Jab, Dash Attack, not "super" enough Super Missiles etc), but what Samus has is actually very solid. Good combo starters in Dash Attack, Dthrow and Dtilt. These can be followed up with things like Uair (or two), Screw Attack, Fair, Bair etc. (One of my favourite true combos to do is one of the mentioned starters, into Uair>Bair>Reverse Charge Shot). She has kill setups too. Utilt or Dair on grounded opponents will spike, which can lead into a full hop Charge Shot. I know this kills Falcon at about 90%, true combo. Dair is very easy to land. Samus also has good traits too. Heavy weight gives her good survivability, she has plenty of options for recovery mix ups, like Bombs and Zair. Zair and Fair are also good to get up off the ledge in my experience. She also has decent frame data. For example, her Fsmash comes out on frame 10 if I remember rightly, the same as (and actually functions the similar too, having a very powerful sweetspot). I definitely think Samus beats , , , , , an arguable favorable matchup to . I certainly think she isn't the worst character in the game. I personally think that award goes to...


-1 : I'll admit, Palutena gets significantly better with customs on, but to me, her general moveset is lacking. Perhaps I am just not a well versed with Palutena as I am Samus, but I find that she doesn't have too many combos outside of just 2 attacks into eachother. Compared to Samus, in my eyes, she just come off as worse. Less reliable combo starters, laggier finishers (all of her smash attacks come out later and end later than Samus's for example, as well as being generally unsafe), tall, but light, and no recovery mix ups. I do like Palutena, I really do, but considering customs off, I would have to say worst character in the game.

+1 : Though my username says otherwise, I am not being biased here. I think Bowser is too low down. I know he also has a few down sides, such as being huge makes him easy to hit (though he has surprising reach because of this) and combo because of his weight (but again, this also helps him a little, as he is one of the best users of rage). He lacks a safe way to land other than going for a ledge, which isn't always completely safe, but he is fast (faster than for example), powerful, has general light armor, has an Usmash with armor on his shell that eats up counters and attacks from above, 2 great autocancel aerials, a command grab etc. I am not trying to make Bowser sound fantastic. I know he isn't going to be near top tier ever, but I don't think he is as low as this list makes out.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

After months of lurking about, I finally decided to create an account. Been wanting to voice my thoughts on this for a while, so here we go...


+1 : Samus is a very underrated character. Unfortunately, she does have issues (Jab, Dash Attack, not "super" enough Super Missiles etc), but what Samus has is actually very solid. Good combo starters in Dash Attack, Dthrow and Dtilt. These can be followed up with things like Uair (or two), Screw Attack, Fair, Bair etc. (One of my favourite true combos to do is one of the mentioned starters, into Uair>Bair>Reverse Charge Shot). She has kill setups too. Utilt or Dair on grounded opponents will spike, which can lead into a full hop Charge Shot. I know this kills Falcon at about 90%, true combo. Dair is very easy to land. Samus also has good traits too. Heavy weight gives her good survivability, she has plenty of options for recovery mix ups, like Bombs and Zair. Zair and Fair are also good to get up off the ledge in my experience. She also has decent frame data. For example, her Fsmash comes out on frame 10 if I remember rightly, the same as (and actually functions the similar too, having a very powerful sweetspot). I definitely think Samus beats , , , , , an arguable favorable matchup to . I certainly think she isn't the worst character in the game. I personally think that award goes to...


-1 : I'll admit, Palutena gets significantly better with customs on, but to me, her general moveset is lacking. Perhaps I am just not a well versed with Palutena as I am Samus, but I find that she doesn't have too many combos outside of just 2 attacks into eachother. Compared to Samus, in my eyes, she just come off as worse. Less reliable combo starters, laggier finishers (all of her smash attacks come out later and end later than Samus's for example, as well as being generally unsafe), tall, but light, and no recovery mix ups. I do like Palutena, I really do, but considering customs off, I would have to say worst character in the game.

+1 : Though my username says otherwise, I am not being biased here. I think Bowser is too low down. I know he also has a few down sides, such as being huge makes him easy to hit (though he has surprising reach because of this) and combo because of his weight (but again, this also helps him a little, as he is one of the best users of rage). He lacks a safe way to land other than going for a ledge, which isn't always completely safe, but he is fast (faster than for example), powerful, has general light armor, has an Usmash with armor on his shell that eats up counters and attacks from above, 2 great autocancel aerials, a command grab etc. I am not trying to make Bowser sound fantastic. I know he isn't going to be near top tier ever, but I don't think he is as low as this list makes out.

Be careful with the u-tilt and d-air combos as Samus. They might register as true combos, but can be tech'd so they aren't really guaranteed.

Also, don't depend on d-tilt to start combos. None of them are guaranteed, so they just won't work against a good opponent. D-tilt is good, but it's not a reliable combo-starter.

(Not trying to criticize your reasoning, it's sound enough overall. Just offering some advice in case you didn't know that stuff.)