Sweetspotting

[Villi]

Now that the game has been out a while and people's metagames have been developed, I'm curious how many people attempt Zelda's Lightning Kicks. In Melee, it was the heart of her game, but here it seems almost like it's not worth the risk with so many other great moves in her arsenal.

I wonder if anyone has any notes to share on Zelda's fair and bair, or if anyone has managed to integrate it with any success into their game.

Fast play is an important consideration. If you've ever jumped in the air in front of someone and wiggled around trying to position yourself for a fair, you know how obvious and punishable it is. The problem with her lightning kicks is that they're extremely difficult to land, and if you don't want to sourspot you might often visibly try not to.

An easy solution is to stop trying, a possibly better solution is to come up with better and less obvious techniques for using them. Simple methods tend to work best.

You will miss -- if -- you are too close, too far, or too high above your target; or if you are too close to the ground before attempting the lightning kick. Many things can go wrong.

Three things:

• Bair is faster than fair.
  
  The sweetspot for bair is so much easier to land for this reason. It means that you have more time before landing to initiate your attack; it's a critical difference in practice. It means you can SPAM it. It also means that if you short hop and bair immediately (almost simultaneously with) your launch, you can hit characters even as short as Mario and TL with considerable speed and accuracy.
  
  RARing for Zelda, then, becomes a useful tool in one's arsenal. It gives her more time to aim and less time for her opponent to react. It also makes it possible to aim for people's shins like I like to do.
  
  Dependant on the height of the character you're facing, opting for a bair isn't always necessary, but it is much less exposure to error. For fairs, about the limit is at the height of her short hop -- if you want to fastfall without gimping her fair, it's pretty much simultaneous down on the joystick, fair with the C-Stick -- or else gimp. It's a much slower, and therefore less effective, approach. If you even begin to fall after short hopping, abandon fairing and do something else.
  
  Here is a humble video. lol
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoQn55Fw6ZM
  
  
• Shorter characters are harder to hit.
  
  These characters include: Olimar, Jigglypuff, Pickachu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Kirby, Metaknight. You must (fast)fall to hit them if you decide to attempt to.
  
  
• Zelda's Dthrow does not have knockback growth and puts opponents behind her in a position for a bair.
  
  That's self explanatory. It's affected by DI, of course.

It would be much appreciated if anyone had anything to add. Mastery of this attack is a big step toward top tier.

 

[popsofctown]

I have come to use fair and bair far, far more than is wise or necessary. But i *think* i have the wisdom to know which ones i should've done and which i shouldn't have. Haha. I hope i have wisdom, playing this character.

I only play one other player, who is good, over and over again, so to put my comments in perspective i'll say what char he plays. He played Lucario for a long time, and then insisted that Zelda was a Lucario counter, and switched to Olimar, who he has played for a long time.

I believe it is sometimes worth while to use the 4% spots on the kick, on the tip. It gimps to keep you safe and scores 4%. However, if you use it for anything but the very tip of her heel, it probably should've been a nair or something else.

I use it for punishing vulnerability, i figure everyone does. If the opponent rolls to a spot, spot dodges early, whatever, and can get lightning kicked, it is a good idea.

One really cool use i've found that is worth more of a look is pistoning. Sorry that's dorky it reminds me of a piston. It is essentially a mind game. Someone is coming from above, coming directly down. You come directly up, perhaps slightly off centered. Since the opponent expects a delayed, powerful upair, the try to dair you before it can get launched. But instead, you double jump and pass above the dair, putting you horizontal to the opponent. Bair or Fair during the opponent's dair lag.

I've discovered that a Fair or Bair follows up a dair really well. After the traumatizing trip down, people tend to tap A, instead of rolling away.

Lightning kick trades damage with some moves very well. You can land a sweetspot and get hit at the same time, they take 20%. I don't understand it really. This works great against Pikachu's thunder, maybe some other stuff.

Another mind game tactic:
I'll be to the left, my opponent to the right and above, he's falling. I'll run all the way underneath him, just past him, and jump and bair him. The reason it works is that it's so reverse intuitive: i don't jump to meet him from the left, don't upsmash from below, but finally bair from the back instead.

 

[xNinjaOfChaosx]

Eh, I found a couple of techniques for landing Fairs and Bairs, although they aren't exactly full-proof and some have the same effectiveness as just short hopping, and then Fairing after a slight delay.

1) Ledge Heel - Pretty sure many know of this, but if you're on the ledge, drop down, jump, then Fair. As long as they aren't too close or too far from the ledge, you'll sweetspot the kick.
2) Nair -> Bair - I guess it could serve as a semi mind game. You do a full jump, begin Nair before you pass over them, and the Nair should finish in time for you to land a Bair which will always sweetspot as long as the opponent isn't too far from you. Not particularly useful if they move around, but the Nair could serve as a mindgame. If they jump, then free Nair damage for you.
3) Dodge -> Bair - Same as the one above, except dodging. Not entirely sure if the dodge part is useful, because you either do it too early and end up getting hit or you do it at the right time, but don't have enough time to use a Bair.

Those are really all about it... well, I guess there are a couple for Battlefield.
One full jump -> Fair/Bair when the opponent is on one of the two middle platforms will sweetspot.
Double jump -> Fair/Bair will sweetspot.
Drop down -> Fair/Bair from one of the two middle platforms will sweetspot.

 

[Luthien]

You can fair/bair out of shield. While I still have yet to integrate a whole lot into my game, this info is useful. You can punish a lot of poorly thought-out attacks with this.

 

[sFoster]

Even if you don't land a sweet spot, throwing the kicks out there forces your opponent to play differently.
This alone makes an attempt worth it.

Zelda's kicks have to be taken extremely seriously, they're one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. (considering there is no charge-up time like a full dmg u-smash)