Sweep Thread - Post logs of your sweeps!

[IceArrow]

None of those attacks would do anything to a +6 Special Defense Gothitelle. Gyro Ball is the only thing there chat could possibly do over 30% and its way too slow anyways.

 

[Wave⁂]

You don't switch into them with the +6, you know.

 

[IceArrow]

I trick them. Most people don't expect this set.

 

[UltiMario]

A TrickSpecs set is the first set on the Analysis. TrickScarf is the third.

An intelligent player would make a safe assumption that they're going to get Tricked if you bring Goth in on a wall.

All they have to do is choose their attacking move and Goth loses. I guess you got a Scarf forced onto a wall though, so it's not ENTIRELY useless.

Let's just say it'd be a lot better if the metagame were stall oriented and it'd more commonly be able to help cripple teams. But that's not really the case.

 

[IceArrow]

None of the trick sets have Calm Mind except mine.


# 8 - 1.96 % (30 battles)

Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf Lv. 100 -- (No Ability)
Nature: Timid - EVs: 76 HP / 176 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Trick
Calm Mind

It's also the best Revenge Killer besides maybe Dugtrio/Magnezone.

 

[Wave⁂]

Pretty much every single god damn Gothitelle uses Trick Scarf, so regardless if you have Calm Mind or not, you'll get hit by an offensive move.

Also, it's basically the only trapper besides Dugtrio and Mangezone, so if it's worse than those two, it's coming in at last place.

 

[IceArrow]

Also, it's basically the only trapper besides Dugtrio and Mangezone, so if it's worse than those two, it's coming in at last place.

That makes sense and I especially believe you because you have no proof at all.

Magnezone and Dugtrio are extremely circumstantial. And by the terms of trapping then Wobuffet is by far the best. Gothitelle can sweep and trap better than Dugtio and Magnezone, also Gothitelle has 10x better defenses than Dugtrio. And Gothitelle doesn't have a x4 weakness to the most common attacking type or need the opponent to be only one type.

Pokemon Online is stupid and it randomly says no ability when it obviously does.

 

[CRASHiC]

I like bug type

 

[Wave⁂]

Magnezone and Dugtrio are extremely circumstantial.

And Gothitelle isn't?

And by the terms of trapping then Wobuffet is by far the best.

I though Wobbuffet was Uber? Smogon is down and I'm too lazy to find another reliable site.

Gothitelle can sweep and trap better than Dugtio and Magnezone

That makes sense and I especially believe you because you have no proof at all.

also Gothitelle has 10x better defenses than Dugtrio. And Gothitelle doesn't have a x4 weakness to the most common attacking type or need the opponent to be only one type..

Saying that Gothitelle has better defenses than a glass cannon means absolutely nothing. You might as well be complain that Blissey has low base attack.

 

[IceArrow]

Dugtrio has 80 Attack, that's hardly a glass cannon. It's only real use is as a weather inducer killer. And barely at that as Hippowdon, Politoed, and Abomasnowcan beat it. When I mean circumstantial I mean that their trapping ability doesn't trap everything. Flying/Levitate defeats Dugtrio and anything but Steel beats Magnezone. Wobuffet is BL, not even in OU. He has never been in Ubers ever since the beginning of 5th gen. Gothitelle can trap better because of his ability, and sweet better because of his typing and calm mind.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Hey, don't be hatin' on my man Magnezone now ya hear?

I know he had a rough childhood growing up, but he's changed now.
(plus he gets rid of pesky ferrothorns for me that I don't like)

 

[Wave⁂]

Dugtrio has 80 Attack, that's hardly a glass cannon. It's only real use is as a weather inducer killer. And barely at that as Hippowdon, Politoed, and Abomasnowcan beat it.

He's used for his offensive power and no one ever invests defenses on him. That is the definition of a glass cannon. And saying those Pokemon can beat Dugtrio doesn't paint a complete picture. Dugtrio is a revenge killer, it doesn't switch into Pokemon with 100% health.

When I mean circumstantial I mean that their trapping ability doesn't trap everything. Flying/Levitate defeats Dugtrio and anything but Steel beats Magnezone.

I'd hardly call that "extremely circumstantial." Saying Dugtrio's Arena Trap is "extremely circumstantial" is big stretch, it still works against most dudes.

Wobuffet is BL, not even in OU. He has never been in Ubers ever since the beginning of 5th gen.

Huh. Well, that's another reason why I never see Wobbuffet. At any rate, I think it's safe to say that its low tier placement indicates he's not as good as Dugtrio or Magnezone.

Gothitelle can trap better because of his ability, and sweep better because of his typing and calm mind.

Magnezone can sweep better because it has higher base SpAtk, and can still boost with Charge Beam. It can survive physical hits (which you will be taking, because both are so slow) with Substitute. It doesn't lose to Toxic. It has about 30 times as many resists as Gothitelle. Magnezone has better type coverage, especially if it runs three attacks. Magnezone can set up without having to waste a slot on Trick, which becomes useless after the sweep attempt has begun.

Obviously, both Pokemon have their pros and cons. We're not going to get a decisive answer until you show some battle logs against high-ranked players. And more importantly, get to a high ranking with this set.

 

[IceArrow]

To be honest I haven't been playing any Pokemon since Gen 6 is coming out. I really just posted to share this Gothitelle set I have that I can use extremely efficiently. I don't care what you guys do with this amazing Gothitelle set but its the best trapper in my opinion and an amazing sweeper. If you guys don't want to try it out then it's your loss.

 

[UltiMario]

"I don't play Pokemon but you guys are wrong about opinions you've have to play Pokemon in order to have"

It's not like I haven't tried TrickScarf Goth before.

I don't use it on teams because it's ****, and if I want a trapper I'll use Wob.

 

[Krynxe]

Wob has his weaknesses too

You're right about Goth though, it's generally too squishy to get much started for it. And even if it does, it's still veeery vulnerable to physical attacks. Anything with sash, sturdy, even a bullet punch from a scizor will kill it off very quickly - there's a lot of options against it and it's seldom to get off an efficient trick in the first place that will let it set up.

 

[IceArrow]

Not TrickScarf, it's TrickCalmMind. But ya, your loss if yo don't want to try it.

First game with a new team I built.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent-36858844

 

[Wave⁂]

Not TrickScarf, it's TrickCalmMind.

That's like saying Jirachi can run TrickIronHead and Latias can run TrickDragonPulse. You don't Trick moves, you Trick items. And your item is a Scarf.

Holy **** what if you ran a Nasty Plot Mr. Mime or Growth Tangrowth, and then used Power Swap to give it to the enemy, and then switched in Accelgor or Espeon to Power Swap the boosts back

OH MY GOD NEXT LEVEL ****, THE MINDGAMES

 

[Firus]

It seems like the discussion here has gotten severely derailed from the topic of the thread.

 

[UltiMario]

Just be happy that there's people posting

A topic is better than no topic

 

[Firus]

People can still be posting and doing it in the right topic. Like the metagame thread or something.

 

[Krynxe]

It's the sweep thread, and we're discussing methods that a sweep can be obtained. Not off topic, really

Posting logs is only part of the intent of the thread, discussion is nice too like Ulti said

On topic: That game was good and all IceArrow, but your opponents mistake was using stealth rocks in the first place. What Ultimario was getting at was that an experienced players wouldn't put themselves in that kind of position, because they know what Gothitelle can do and are very aware of the obvious trick. (especially since with a choice item, you HAVE to trick turn 1) It's a great gimmick, but it won't versus top level players.

 

[Firus]

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the discussion. I thought it was branching off from the sweeps and getting into general metagame discussion.

 

[IceArrow]

The thing is that top players won't always pick the right options. Especially when your opponent doesn't know the set. Ya they can guess that it's a trick set but they could also think its some other set. That's like saying a top player will always pick the perfect option and is basically unbeatable.

 

[UltiMario]

Except this isn't a thing where you have a choice.

You have two choices against Gothitelle:
1. Use a non-attacking move and risk the fact that all the most common sets carry trick
2. Risk absolutely nothing by attacking it head on

There really isn't a downside for attacking Goth. It's beyond the "not always make the best decision" rule. Goth is so one-dimensional and such a small threat without you being locked into a status move that you have no reason not to attack. Using a status move against Goth is the wrong decision in 99% of situations.

 

[IceArrow]

Gothitelle can 2HKO a lot of things unboosted and out speed them. Sounds good to me.

 

[UltiMario]

Since you're trapped either you die when the Goth gets to +6 or die when the Goth isn't +6. Or alternative: If you're not weak to Psychic, or you're not 4x weak to Thunderbolt: kill Goth.

That'd be a good reason to attack.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, ulti is really speaking the truth

It's not like a fighting game where you have mixups, mindgames, etc. Gimmicks like this simply do not work on an experienced player simply because they can't be thrown off by it. They see a gothitelle and they know what it can do and how to respond. Some players don't know this, however, and it works just fine on them. Your match replay is evidence of this.

If you like gothitelle, that's just fine. We're not hating on you or your preference in pokemon, we're simply stating the objective flaws of the pokemon - as every pokemon has some sort of flaw big or small. I hope you don't feel like we're attacking you or anything

 

[IceArrow]

Ulti, the thing is that I don't switch Gothitelle into a Scizor. A top player like myself knows when to switch Gothitelle in and be able to Revenge Kill or pull off its gimmick. And Krynxe, I'm used to Ulti's arguments on the Poke Center. Just check any thread in the Battle Tower lol.

Also just saying, the player I played had a ranking of 1600. That's pretty decent.

 

[UltiMario]

The problem is even the stuff Goth traditionally takes down can put massive dents in it. Even resisted attacks from mons locked with Scarf tend to 3HKO it.

It just can't pull off a sweep. It's too slow, and if it runs speed to compensate it's too frail. It only works on players that have no idea what Goth does, which isn't anyone that's decent.

Not to mention, 1600 isn't decent. I asked to see some sweep examples (aka the point of this thread if you want to actually use it) from 1800+ because that's when players stop being complete idiots. Instead you went and played a few matches at the bottom of the ladder until you got a game where Goth swept.

 

[Wave⁂]

Worst thing about Gothitelle is that it doesn't get Power Swap

 

[Krynxe]

What do you guys think about using Smeargle to set up? What tools do you think he can best utilize to be most effective at top level?

I know he's not good, still wanting to know what you guys might have had most success with

 

[UltiMario]

Spore Smashpass is the most effective set

And it's not really that effective

If you can pass to something decent though, you can sweep large members of the opposing team fairly quickly. Sash gives it an opportunity as a lead, White Herb would be better if you can actually outpace something the opponent has. It's more about what you pass to, though. Needs to be something bulky, resists common priority, and can kill things. Keldeo maybe? Assuming +2 HP Bug can OHKO 252/4 Latias

Edit: yep, OHKOs most the time after SR

 

[IceArrow]

Ulti, I came back and played 1 game and got that sweep. Also a 3HKO is not good at all. Stop being ignorant Ulti and use Gothitelle to its strengths, not its weakness.

 

[UltiMario]

3HKO isn't good, but it's good enough so Goth is forced to OHKO something to survive, and can't set up.

It's just not cut out to sweep. If you really wanted to play Goth to its strengths, you'd use Trick + 3 Attacks Specs/Scarfer as a revenge killer, nothing more.

 

[IceArrow]

Gothitelle works very effectively on a team with multiple immunities. It can easily allow a teammate to set up. Having Calm Mind is a lot more important then having 1 more attack (most likely Hidden Power).

 

[UltiMario]

Goth's ability to run an HP or Signal Beam to eliminate specific targets and allow good mons to sweep is worth having over a chance you're playing someone awful and sweep with her instead.

She's good at making sweeps happen, just not her own sweeps.

 

[choknater]

haha i've been playing a pretty epic baton pass team lately that ends in Keldeo if things go right. so brutal

but usually people quit out before i actually kill their pokemon

 

[Krynxe]

lol, lets hear it

 

[IceArrow]

What is the best Baton Pass recipient in OU? I was thinking Keldeo but it can be walled by Celebi or Jellicent. Also Focus Sash Alakazam destroys Keldeo.

 

[UltiMario]

You could always run HP Ghost + Icy Wind on Keldeo as a BP recipient so it can't be walled.