Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Tree Gelbman]

So you dislike all mods?

I dislike anything that takes another person's work and tries to improve on it.

Even if wasn't disrespectful in intention. I just find them tacky.

Especially for a group of people who were actually quite talented.

Basically? Talent. If you've got it? And they have it.

Don't rely on another person's hard work to show it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

OK, I caved in and donated $60 for Indivisible are you happy A Distant Demon

<3 I've been happy for the past few hours. Thanks for making it better.


I suppose now is as good a time as any . . . I only pledged $30.

I was willing to pledge more if necessary and will for a stretch goal but I think my constant nagging did more than my wallet did
nearly 25,000 hype

EDIT hold up. bad joke incoming

SHOVEL KNIGHT KNOWS HOW TO PARTY. pic.twitter.com/0bwilfT2i8

— Lythero 🎮 (@Lythero) December 2, 2015

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Don't rely on another person's hard work to show it.

That's Smash at its core.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

I'm pretty sure the TPP is very far from being a realized thing.
Even then, from what I've heard it wouldn't change all that much.


Forgive me if this sounds rude...but I really dislike this mentality.
Brawl is radically different from Melee. It's completely understandable that a group of Melee fans would try to modify Brawl to play more like it, especially given how free Brawl modding is.

Not to mention, PM started from a very simple mod of a single character's properties (I think it was Falco). It's not like the devs went "god, Brawl sucks, let's make it like Melee" one day and began work.

I always liked Smash 64 more than Melee, butvI never advocated for someone to change the physics in Melee to be closer to 64. I like the raccoon powerup in Mario 3 more than the cape in SMW, but I don't think they should replace the cape or something. My point is the people who worked on Brawl had a vision and Project M probably had a negative effect on them.

If I made something and then someone else took it and modded it to be closer to something else, I'd be pissed off, that's like saying what I've done isn't good enough.

 

[Opossum]

I dislike anything that takes another person's work and tries to improve on it.

Even if wasn't disrespectful in intention. I just find them tacky.

Especially for a group of people who were actually quite talented.

Basically? Talent. If you've got it? And they have it.

Don't rely on another person's hard work to show it.

I'm genuinely curious based on your last sentence. Would you also apply this to things like fanfiction? Or only to fix-fics?

Just wondering is all.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That's Smash at its core.

If you're splitting hairs, sure.

But it's a celebration of many people in the industry's hard work. Sakurai shows a passion and respect for every character and franchise in the game and respects the work that others put into their franchises that are represented.

Project M was different in that it wasn't celebrating Sakurai's hard work on Brawl but instead something that ultimately said ''You could've done better. Like the last time!"

 

[Kenith]

I always liked Smash 64 more than Melee, butvI never advocated for someone to change the physics in Melee to be closer to 64. I like the raccoon powerup in Mario 3 more than the cape in SMW, but I don't think they should replace the cape or something. My point is the people who worked on Brawl had a vision and Project M probably had a negative effect on them.

If I made something and then someone else took it and modded it to be closer to something else, I'd be pissed off, that's like saying what I've done isn't good enough.

And I'm just saying, thinking that the PM devs making PM is a slight against Sakurai and Brawl's development team is really presumptuous.

ANYWAY here's a project that isn't cancelled!
Indivisible is at 98%! It's happening!!!

This chick paints with sand!

Spoiler

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm genuinely curious based on your last sentence. Would you also apply this to things like fanfiction? Or only to fix-fics?

Just wondering is all.

Fan fiction is ultimately harmless. It's done from a stand point of respect and love.

You can say Project M was done with that, but ultimately at it's core?

It was taking another man's work and saying ''You didn't do good enough for us."

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

And I'm just saying, thinking that the PM devs making PM is a slight against Sakurai and Brawl's development team is really presumptuous.

ANYWAY here's a project that isn't cancelled!
Indivisible is at 98%! It's happening!!!

This chick paints with sand!

Spoiler

Yooo that's so cool.

Unfortunately, I don't have any money to pledge at all

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It was taking another man's work and saying ''You didn't do good enough for us."

Roger.

This is assuming an awful lot.

A lot of PM devs and players were Brawl players too.

 

[Shroob]

And I'm just saying, thinking that the PM devs making PM is a slight against Sakurai and Brawl's development team is really presumptuous.

ANYWAY here's a project that isn't cancelled!
Indivisible is at 98%! It's happening!!!

This chick paints with sand!

Spoiler

Looks like pre-pain-wheel.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

<3 I've been happy for the past few hours. Thanks for making it better.


I suppose now is as good a time as any . . . I only pledged $30.

I was willing to pledge more if necessary and will for a stretch goal but I think my constant nagging did more than my wallet did
nearly 25,000 hype

EDIT hold up. bad joke incoming

SHOVEL KNIGHT KNOWS HOW TO PARTY. pic.twitter.com/0bwilfT2i8

— Lythero 🎮 (@Lythero) December 2, 2015

That somewhat hurts me on the inside, but a lil funny.

 

[Shroob]

People on the Smash Reddit are saying Sm4sh is undergoing maintenance?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Roger.

This is assuming an awful lot.

A lot of PM devs and players were Brawl players too.

It's just tacky dude.

Artist 101.

Don't take another man's work and try to improve on it. It makes you look like an asshole.

It's why people hate remakes unless they're super super super duper good.

 

[Shroob]

Since it got bumped down to the last post, reddit is reporting maintenance for Sm4sh. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Opossum]

And I'm just saying, thinking that the PM devs making PM is a slight against Sakurai and Brawl's development team is really presumptuous.

ANYWAY here's a project that isn't cancelled!
Indivisible is at 98%! It's happening!!!

This chick paints with sand!

Spoiler

Oh wow that's pretty. :D

I love colored sand art. I blame childhood. My old Neopets account had a hundred or so bottles of sand, all of different hues. Damn Tombola guy always giving me those...

That aside it's so pretty. :D I may just have to get this game once it comes out and I have a PC that can even run MUGEN or Undertale.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

People on the Smash Reddit are saying Sm4sh is undergoing maintenance?

OH BOY HERE WE GO...

 

[Shadowwolflink]

Fan fiction is ultimately harmless. It's done from a stand point of respect and love.

You can say Project M was done with that, but ultimately at it's core?

It was taking another man's work and saying ''You didn't do good enough for us."

Exactly.

I'm going to liken this to Star Wars real quick.

The prequels might not be objectively good, but recuts like the Machete Order are pretty disrespectful.

 

[Soul.]

Maybe PM devs wanted to stop altogether

Like, "okay guys, we're done here."

 

[AreJay25]

People on the Smash Reddit are saying Sm4sh is undergoing maintenance?

Doesn't appear to be planned.

At least, I don't think so, since Nintendo's server status page is down...

 

[N3ON]

I dislike anything that takes another person's work and tries to improve on it.

Well so long science.

And so long christianity.

But most upsettingly, so long 90% of Disney's movies.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's just tacky dude.

Artist 101.

Don't take another man's work and try to improve on it. It makes you look like an *******.

It's why people hate remakes unless they're super super super duper good.

No Roger.

They don't look like a asshole.

You're making them out to be.

You're throwing this attitude at them to make them seem mean and spiteful.

These people love Smash a lot more than you ever have. They made it their life. Their job. It's what keeps them alive and I won't stand for you attacking them like that. Wanting to make something better isn't disrespectful.

Especially with this blatant hypocrisy of "it's harmless." Project M was harmless. It actually boosted Brawl sales as people need Brawl to play it.

If they give credit where credit is due (and they did) then what is the disrespect?

 

[Erureido]

So I decided to narrow down what I personally think are the most likely candidates for the next fighter reveal for Pokken Tournament in light of the recent hint (too bad Gallade, Greninja, Swampert, and Krookodile have to be ruled out for now).

Generation 1:

Jigglypuff - I personally don't think Jigglypuff is that likely, but considering Smash Bros is why she is still largely recognized to this day, I won't be too surprised if she's the next reveal.

Arcanine - Popular Pokemon who could use very animalistic attacks to stand out from the other Fire-types currently on the roster, but there is another Pokemon that serves as competition for it. Keep on reading to find out.

Alakazam - Pretty strong candidate as it is viewed as the original Psychic type Pokemon. Combine that with its popularity and the fact it has a Mega Evolution and it seems that Alakazam has a pretty good shot. One major problem that I see with Alakazam is that Gardevoir could already be seen as the special-based Psychic-type attacker in the roster (at least that's what most of her moves are like), and now with Mewtwo in the fray, I can't say Alakazam has a supremely high chance.

Snorlax - Another memorable and popular Pokemon that is a decent candidate (not to mention we still don't have a Normal-type on the roster yet). I could see it being the primary heavy hitter in the current roster - quite slow but can attack with very strong attacks through moves like Body Slam.

Generation 2:

Ampharos - One of the first Electric types Pokemon to receive a Mega Evolution, and a pretty popular and memorable generation II Pokemon. Pikachu might already be the primary Electric type attacker, but I think that doesn't necessarily mean we won't get another Electric type.

Donphan - We still do not have a Ground-type fighter on the current roster, and with the recent hint, I think Donphan is a decent candidate. It's another popular and memorable generation II Pokemon who could stand out with its ramming-style attack, rollouts, and ground moves like Earthquake. While Pokemon like Terrakion, Mamoswine, Tyranitar could serve as competition for sharing some of the moveset possibilities Donphan is capable of, my gut instincts keep telling me Donphan is a strong possibility.

Entei - With Suicune already in the game, I won't be surprised if the other Legendary Beasts will appear as fighters. Remember how I previously said Arcanine would stand out from other the other Fire-type Pokemon currently on the roster through an animalistic like moveset? Well, I think Entei is another candidate for this kind of fighter. Hopefully, if Entei joins the fray, then we should see Raikou join along at some point.

Tyranitar - The big pseudo-legendary of generation II, Tyranitar could really stand out with a quake-style moveset combined with Rock moves, ability to summon a sandstorm, and a Godzilla-like attacks involving biting, scratching, and stomping. Its popularity and fame, further proven with the fact it was one of the first Pokemon to get a Mega, does give it a strong edge in its competition, not to mention we don't have any major Rock-type attackers on the roster currently.

Generation 3

Sceptile - I personally think Sceptile is one of the strongest candidates for the next reveal. It's basically the forerunner for the first Grass-type to become a full-fledged playable fighter thanks to all that it has going for it (starter Pokemon, Mega Evolution, and the fact it's soon going to have major importance in the Pokemon anime as Sawyer's, Ash's main Kalos rival, signature Pokemon). With raptor-style attacks added to the mix, no doubt it would be unique. It is debatable if we will actually see more than one from a regional starter trio be represented on the roster though. Well, if Sceptile does make it in, then I hope Swampert will eventually join in since it would be quite unfair to have two of the trio represented while excluding only one.

Salamence - One of the strongest candidates for the first true Dragon-type rep right now. I'd say Dragonite has a better since its more iconic for being the original Dragon-type, but with the recent hint, Dragonite can be scratched out for the next reveal. Salamence is an iconic and popular generation III Pokemon known for being one of Hoenn's pseudo-legendaries, and he also got a Mega in the most recent games. He would definitely have a very Dragon-esque moveset and perhaps take advantage of his diverse move pool as well.

Generation 4

Luxray - I'll admit this is more of a hopeful candidate for me, but Luxray is popular and has a relatively major role in the anime ( arguably Clemont's main Pokemon). He would basically be the Electric-type version of Arcanine or Entei where he would use very animalistic attacks, but instead of fire, he would use electricity.

Mamoswine - Another decent candidate for the first Ground-type rep. In addition to using lots of ice attacks, I can see many of its attacks involving ramming and quake-style moves similar to Donphan.

Generation 5

Galvantula - One of the first Generation 5 Pokemon revealed, with some solid popularity and support on its back along with the fact no Bug-types currently represented on the roster, I can't help but think Galvantula is one of the best candidates for the first Bug-type to be revealed next Thursday. It would make for a really unique fighter with its bug attacks combined with spider attacks and electricity (Electroweb anyone?).

Bisharp - I'll admit this is another hopeful candidate, but he's fairly popular, has a Steel-typing that isn't represented on the roster at the moment, and has unique potential with a dual-yielding moveset along with the possibility of an added Assist moveset where it could summon Pawniards to attack at will. Gallade is definitely his biggest competition due to a relatively similar design, similar moveset potential, higher popularity, and the fact Gallade has a Mega Evolution while Bisharp doesn't, but now that Gallade is ruled out with the hint, Bisharp could (not entirely) have a chance to make it in before Gallade.

Hydreigon - This is another candidate for the true Dragon type rep at the moment. Hydreigon would definitely attack as a true Dragon terror, attacking with ferocious bites and special-based attacks like Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, and Flamethrower (perhaps even executing these attacks three times at once thanks to its three heads). Dragonite and Salamence are competitors since they can be similar in moveset potential, but Hydreigon does have the advantage of being a Generation V Pokemon, so there's that.

Terrakion - Another strong candidate for the ramming kind of fighter, not to mention he could also use Rock-type attacks and a quake-style moveset. Some Pokemon already mentioned do serve as competition for similar moveset potential though.

Generation 6

Noivern - One of the first generation 6 Pokemon revealed, has solid popularity, and unique moveset potential with a sound-based moveset, I think Noivern has a decent shot for the first generation 6 Pokemon to become a full-fledged fighter at this point in light of the recent hint. It does have to compete with Exploud, Jigglypuff, and Wigglytuff with the sound-based moveset though, not to mention even Pokemon like Goodra or Hyreigon could serve as competition for the possibility of special-based Dragon-type moveset.

These are the Pokemon that I feel the most confident about in regards to who will be revealed on December 10. It's also possible that none of the Pokemon that I listed will be revealed on that day, but hey, I'm just speculating. What do you think are the strongest candidates for the December 10th reveal at this point?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

No maintenance btw, just got in.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

No Roger.

They don't look like a *******.

You're making them out to be.

You're throwing this attitude at them to make them seem mean and spiteful.

These people love Smash a lot more than you ever have. They made it their life. Their job. It's what keeps them alive and I won't stand for you attacking them like that. Wanting to make something better isn't disrespectful.

Especially with this blatant hypocrisy of "it's harmless." Project M was harmless. It actually boosted Brawl sales as people need Brawl to play it.

I don't understand what you mean by "Their job. It's what keeps them alive", it was free, wasn't it?

Also, it might have boosted the sales of Brawl, but how do you think the Brawl development team would feel knowing people only bought their game so they could play a mod that strips it down and turns it into Melee 2? I'm sure that wouldn't feel too good.

 

[Kenith]

99!!!

Until Indivisible reaches maximum power!
It's Indiego-go time!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Well so long science.

And so long christianity.

But most upsettingly, so long 90% of Disney's movies.

Hairs, hairs, splitting everywhere.

Better by some new bottles of shampoo and conditioner in this joint.

No Roger.

They don't look like a *******.

You're making them out to be.

You're throwing this attitude at them to make them seem mean and spiteful.

These people love Smash a lot more than you ever have. They made it their life. Their job. It's what keeps them alive and I won't stand for you attacking them like that. Wanting to make something better isn't disrespectful.

Especially with this blatant hypocrisy of "it's harmless." Project M was harmless. It actually boosted Brawl sales as people need Brawl to play it.

How am I really throwing an attitude at them?

I've more than admitted they're talented. It's not like I said they were talentless hacks man. I've seen their work. Played their work. They did a fantastic job at Project M. There's no denying that. That's just facts.

They did a damn fine job at what they did. More than I could ever do with a Smash game like you said. But that's because that's not a talent I really have. I know nothing about game development.

It don't really mean I Iove Smash less though that I can't do what they did however. Nor make it so that they love it more. It's not a contest dude. Nor was I making it one.

Nor do I think they're really bad people. They all seem to be lovely people from what I've seen of them. I do however think they broke an artist code that is unspoken. You shouldn't touch another man's work without permission.

In traditional internet (and outside world) sense? It makes you look like an asshole.

LOOK. Not are. People make mistakes. It's why we're human. Nor do I think they intentionally realized it would send that message to some.

Look? Agree to disagree. I'm just very passionate about protecting the work of all artists. From the good and the bad. If I really thought they were satan's spawn. I wouldn't even admit their talent!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

don't understand what you mean by "Their job. It's what keeps them alive", it was free, wasn't it?

They made SMASH their lives.

The PMDT are mostly top players and tournament hosts.

Also, it might have boosted the sales of Brawl, but how do you think the Beawl development team would feel knowing people only bought their game so they could play a mod that strips it down and turns it into Melee 2? I'm sure that wouldn't feel too good.

And we should accept angry fan fiction?

Bad fan art?

These people don't hate Brawl. Some fans might, but the PMDT loved it. That's why they knew it enough to mod it.

 

[AreJay25]

99!!!

Until Indivisible reaches maximum power!
It's Indiego-go time!

To think that it looked somewhat likely that the game wouldn't reach its goal.

Crazy how well things turned out as time went on.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I'm reading a few salty comments about how they say "**** Nintendo, they've been getting away with so much scummy **** lately"and I find it pretty funny lol

I love how they all jump on the "ITS ALL NINTENDO'S FAULT" bandwagon before considering that it could have very well been other companies lol

 

[A Distant Demon]

this game may get funded before I finish my homework.

To think I assumed this game was done for until a day or two ago.

How fast things change and how fast hype rises.

 

[Kenith]

I don't understand what you mean by "Their job. It's what keeps them alive", it was free, wasn't it?

Also, it might have boosted the sales of Brawl, but how do you think the Beawl development team would feel knowing people only bought their game so they could play a mod that strips it down and turns it into Melee 2? I'm sure that wouldn't feel too good.

>PM adds actual alternate costumes for every character, a ton of new stages, returning stages, two new characters, new modes
>Stripped down

OK dude.
I find this more disrespectful to PM than PM is to Brawl.

To think that it looked somewhat likely that the game wouldn't reach its goal.

Crazy how well things turned out as time went on.

I wonder if it can get funded before I get bored and go to sleep. :D

 

[N3ON]

Hairs, hairs, splitting everywhere.

Better by some new bottles of shampoo and conditioner in this joint.

Or maybe you just made a generalization when actually talking about something rather specific so now you're saying things don't count and chalking the rest up to hair splitting even though they still apply.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Deleted member]

I don't even understand why this discussion is even happening, quite frankly. I doubt the game develpors go by some artist code. If anything, I think they'd be happy that there's even such huge dedication from the fans to add such wonderful content to their game.

Or perhaps maybe my friends and are a bit optimistic and like our work to be expanded upon. As I do some forms of work while two of my friends are great artists. We appreciate any help we could get.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

They made SMASH their lives.

The PMDT are mostly top players and tournament hosts.


And we should accept angry fan fiction?

Bad fan art?

These people don't hate Brawl. Some fans might, but the PMDT loved it. That's why they knew it enough to mod it.

Few things.

I never said anything about fan fiction or fan art.

I never said Anything about anyone hating Brawl.

Whether or not the PM dev team likes Brawl or knows it well is completely irrelevant to my point, regardless of the reasoning for the mod it still most likely negatively affects the original development team. You can say it was harmless and done out of love all you want, but Brawl's devs are still likely to see it as players deciding their work wasn't good enough, and that's the worst thing you can do to an artist. I know, I've been in the situation where I feel so proud of a piece of art that I show it off and then have people tell me how terrible it is or have people try to 'fix' my work.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Or maybe you just made a generalization when actually talking about something rather specific so now you're saying things don't count and chalking the rest up to hair splitting even though they still apply.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A lot of the things you actually speak of our free for EVERYONE to pull from.

Christianity is a religion. Most religions are free range and open for interpretation.

A lot of Disney's work is based on fairy tales that were around before copyright evenexisted. And thus open for many to use with little to no rights issues in the way. It's why you can get reprints of them under many different bookhouses, and different interpretations by many artists.

Improvements in science actually helps more than it harms. It progresses us and it's actually kind of sad it stands up as example in defending a silly mod for a copyright video game.

You picked in actuality things that were hair-splitting and silly concepts to use to defend Project M.

Which I'm not even really bad mouthing to begin with? I said for something that broke an artist code of touching something that ultimately belongs to only one person/company. It's a damn fine piece of artistic work.

 

[Opossum]

In other news I downloaded Super Mario Bros. 2 on my 3DS since I've actually never played it beyond Brawl's Masterpiece version.

It's pretty fun! Kind of more difficult than other Mario games, but fun.

 

[A Distant Demon]

In other news I downloaded Super Mario Bros. 2 on my 3DS since I've actually never played it beyond Brawl's Masterpiece version.

It's pretty fun! Kind of more difficult than other Mario games, but fun.

Smooth. Realllll smooth.

SMB2 is my favorite 2d mario game. I really don care for 2d mario in general TBH. The momentum has always felt super unnatural to me. SMB2's weird level design made it ok.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

In other news I downloaded Super Mario Bros. 2 on my 3DS since I've actually never played it beyond Brawl's Masterpiece version.

It's pretty fun! Kind of more difficult than other Mario games, but fun.

It will stop being fun near the end of the game.

T.T

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I saw that post Swamp Sensei

Interesting to say the least.